Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

On Nov 26, 3:45*am, Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

If you had a transfer switch it would be alot safer on the equipment,
a cheap one wont do what you want but will have 2 watt meters so you
know the load and can balance it. They are cheap and easy to install
many are prewired. Generac has one prewired with exterior baox cables
plugs tec for about 300, I got mine free at Lowes with a cheap gen.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

On Nov 26, 9:53*am, "Twayne" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. *It's nothing but a logic setup. *a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later... the compressor will not be able to
re-start when the pressure is already built up in the system... it
will cycle on overload for a few minutes until the pressure dies
down. That is OK it won't BREAK anything right away but it does
stress the overload switch and compressor and is not the best thing to
do for long term.

Mark

Mark wrote:
....
yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later...
....
So what's a 555 timer cost???

The general idea isn't difficult to implement w/ anybody who's got some
Radio Shack-type skills and interest.

It's probably there are some moderately inexpensive devices readily
available altho I've not done any looking. Undoubtedly there will be
info on the alternate-energy and living-off-grid and generator groups...

--

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

Simplest would be to attach a 120 Volt NC (Normally Closed = ON) relay
to the compressor's two electrical feed wires. When the compressor is
running, the relay is activated and its contacts are open (=Off).
When the compressor has stopped, the relay closes and lets the sump
pump, e.g., run.

What you are seeking is akin to this
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001087.php
but with a reverse action. You could purchase a strip like this and
plug the frig into its power sensing socket. A NC relay could then be
plugged into the controlled sockets. Would do the same as above but
save you the trouble of messing with the refrigerator wiring.

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Mark wrote:
On Nov 26, 9:53 am, "Twayne" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?
Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.
You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.
http://www.functionaldevices.com/
http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8
http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx
TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.
A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.
Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later... the compressor will not be able to
re-start when the pressure is already built up in the system... it
will cycle on overload for a few minutes until the pressure dies
down. That is OK it won't BREAK anything right away but it does
stress the overload switch and compressor and is not the best thing to
do for long term.

Mark


Have you ever heard of an anti short cycle timer.
It's a little module available at the same HVAC
supply house as the other parts. The things are
very inexpensive and I install them on AC units
all the time. It would be easy to add it to the
setup. Do I have to design the darn thing now?


TDD

Pete C. wrote:
Twayne wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.
Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

Christ! Just a simple anti short cycle timer
in the mix would do the trick. No big complicated
control setup needed. Ever heard of relay logic?
Nothing complicated needed for the application.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.
2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.
2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Whoop-dee-doo, you still haven't covered the actual issues, particularly
with the probability of an inverter based generator give the OPs mention
of 2KW, and the fact that as soon as the new load came online the
inverter would trip out on overload before your relay could shed other
loads.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.
Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Whoop-dee-doo, you still haven't covered the actual issues, particularly
with the probability of an inverter based generator give the OPs mention
of 2KW, and the fact that as soon as the new load came online the
inverter would trip out on overload before your relay could shed other
loads.

What inverter based generator? The guy has a itty bitty
generator sitting on top of an inverter? That's a heck
of a silly thing to place a generator on top of. GEEZ!

TDD

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run,
even though it is not currently powered. This type of control just
isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of the control
would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off
etc. Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

You apparently don't understand a logic chart; or you wouldn't say that.
x & y are NOT equipment; they are states. And simple to work out.

Pete wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run,
even though it is not currently powered. This type of control just
isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of the control
would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is
to swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for
this since you have to know the load of each of the controlled
outputs and determine the allowable combinations that will not
overload the generator.

You're making it even more obvious what you don't know. Because you
don't know how to do something is no reason for you to attack others who
might be on the right track. Your concepts of how relays can work is in
bad need of help also. When you have nothing worthwhile to say, that's
what you should say: Nothing.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones
come on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some
smarts, and monitoring connections to things like sump pump
switches, thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs
to run, even though it is not currently powered. This type of
control just isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of
the control would exceed the cost of a larger generator.
2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is
to swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for
this since you have to know the load of each of the controlled
outputs and determine the allowable combinations that will not
overload the generator.

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Why not post a schematic somewhere for him? A pic's worth a thousand
words ... or more. Unless, as your antagonistic and childish approach
is showing, you're nothing but a kiddie bag of hot air.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones
come on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some
smarts, and monitoring connections to things like sump pump
switches, thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item
needs to run, even though it is not currently powered. This type
of control just isn't practical on a small scale where the cost
of the control would exceed the cost of a larger generator.
2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect
mode and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart
the generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution
is to swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for
this since you have to know the load of each of the controlled
outputs and determine the allowable combinations that will not
overload the generator.

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Whoop-dee-doo, you still haven't covered the actual issues,
particularly with the probability of an inverter based generator give
the OPs mention of 2KW, and the fact that as soon as the new load
came online the inverter would trip out on overload before your relay
could shed other loads.

Prove it. Then show how simple, IF you manage to prove it, that it can
be overcome. You know not of which you speak. This has turned into a
troll fest.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will
bog down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If
it's an inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into
protect mode and you will loose output until you manually stop and
restart the generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the
problem. With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest
solution is to swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess
for this since you have to know the load of each of the controlled
outputs and determine the allowable combinations that will not
overload the generator.
Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Whoop-dee-doo, you still haven't covered the actual issues,
particularly with the probability of an inverter based generator
give the OPs mention of 2KW, and the fact that as soon as the new
load came online the inverter would trip out on overload before your
relay could shed other loads.

What inverter based generator? The guy has a itty bitty
generator sitting on top of an inverter? That's a heck
of a silly thing to place a generator on top of. GEEZ!

TDD

Why? For what valid reason?

Twayne wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD
Whoop-dee-doo, you still haven't covered the actual issues,
particularly with the probability of an inverter based generator
give the OPs mention of 2KW, and the fact that as soon as the new
load came online the inverter would trip out on overload before your
relay could shed other loads.
What inverter based generator? The guy has a itty bitty
generator sitting on top of an inverter? That's a heck
of a silly thing to place a generator on top of. GEEZ!

TDD

Why? For what valid reason?



Twane, you're getting the posters mixed up.

TDD

Twayne wrote:

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run,
even though it is not currently powered. This type of control just
isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of the control
would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off
etc. Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

You apparently don't understand a logic chart; or you wouldn't say that.
x & y are NOT equipment; they are states. And simple to work out.

Baloney. Get a list of the various loads, the wattage draw of each and
starting surge where applicable, and then you try to work out your logic
chart for this application to determine which loads can be allowed to
come online in what combinations without overloading the generator.

Be sure to account for devices that present more than one level of load
such as a refrigerator (cool vs. defrost) and devices that could be
damaged by repeatedly cutting their operation short, such as those with
cool down cycles. Be sure your current monitoring reacts fast enough to
drop excess loads when a new load comes online with it's peak starting
current, before you stall a regular generator, or put an inverter
generator into overload protect shutdown.

Twayne wrote:

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones
come on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some
smarts, and monitoring connections to things like sump pump
switches, thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item
needs to run, even though it is not currently powered. This type
of control just isn't practical on a small scale where the cost
of the control would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off
etc. Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an
intermittently overloaded generator, devices damaged by short
cycling, floods because the sump pump didn't get enough run time,
etc. Proper load management requires the smarts along with sensing
to hold off providing power to item Y until item X has completed
it's cycle.

You apparently don't understand a logic chart; or you wouldn't say
that. x & y are NOT equipment; they are states. And simple to work
out.

Baloney. Get a list of the various loads, the wattage draw of each and
starting surge where applicable, and then you try to work out your
logic chart for this application to determine which loads can be
allowed to come online in what combinations without overloading the
generator.

Be sure to account for devices that present more than one level of
load such as a refrigerator (cool vs. defrost) and devices that could
be damaged by repeatedly cutting their operation short, such as those
with cool down cycles. Be sure your current monitoring reacts fast
enough to drop excess loads when a new load comes online with it's
peak starting current, before you stall a regular generator, or put
an inverter generator into overload protect shutdown.

Welll, I'll tell ya what; I didn't say the less than educated would
understand it. You would need a decent background to fully understand
it, even though the implementation is rather straight forward and
do-able by most anyone who can minimally read a schematic.

If I didn't have experience in the area, I would not have offered this
up. This however is likely my last response to the likes of trolls like
you; you're not worth the effort, time or ether. You obviously have no
grasp of the actual requiremnts so should shut up or offer instances
where you can be showh where you're wrong or right. Then at least you
would learn something. Ignorance truly can be bliss.

Twayne wrote:

Twayne wrote:

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones
come on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some
smarts, and monitoring connections to things like sump pump
switches, thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item
needs to run, even though it is not currently powered. This type
of control just isn't practical on a small scale where the cost
of the control would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off
etc. Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an
intermittently overloaded generator, devices damaged by short
cycling, floods because the sump pump didn't get enough run time,
etc. Proper load management requires the smarts along with sensing
to hold off providing power to item Y until item X has completed
it's cycle.

You apparently don't understand a logic chart; or you wouldn't say
that. x & y are NOT equipment; they are states. And simple to work
out.

Baloney. Get a list of the various loads, the wattage draw of each and
starting surge where applicable, and then you try to work out your
logic chart for this application to determine which loads can be
allowed to come online in what combinations without overloading the
generator.

Be sure to account for devices that present more than one level of
load such as a refrigerator (cool vs. defrost) and devices that could
be damaged by repeatedly cutting their operation short, such as those
with cool down cycles. Be sure your current monitoring reacts fast
enough to drop excess loads when a new load comes online with it's
peak starting current, before you stall a regular generator, or put
an inverter generator into overload protect shutdown.

Welll, I'll tell ya what; I didn't say the less than educated would
understand it. You would need a decent background to fully understand
it, even though the implementation is rather straight forward and
do-able by most anyone who can minimally read a schematic.

If I didn't have experience in the area, I would not have offered this
up. This however is likely my last response to the likes of trolls like
you; you're not worth the effort, time or ether. You obviously have no
grasp of the actual requiremnts so should shut up or offer instances
where you can be showh where you're wrong or right. Then at least you
would learn something. Ignorance truly can be bliss.

Yes, your ignorance sure must be blissful. The two of you trolls have
yet to give a single bit of factual data, nor have you addressed any of
the detailed issues I've mentioned. You should stick to wiring holiday
lights.

Pete C. wrote:
Twayne wrote:

Yes, your ignorance sure must be blissful. The two of you trolls have
yet to give a single bit of factual data, nor have you addressed any of
the detailed issues I've mentioned. You should stick to wiring holiday
lights.

Which two trolls are you referring to? I would
be glad to describe the simple way I'd setup an
automatic switch that the OP asked about. Just
ask, politely and without derision.

TDD