Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

On Nov 26, 9:53*am, "Twayne" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. *It's nothing but a logic setup. *a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later... the compressor will not be able to
re-start when the pressure is already built up in the system... it
will cycle on overload for a few minutes until the pressure dies
down. That is OK it won't BREAK anything right away but it does
stress the overload switch and compressor and is not the best thing to
do for long term.

Mark

Mark wrote:
....
yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later...
....
So what's a 555 timer cost???

The general idea isn't difficult to implement w/ anybody who's got some
Radio Shack-type skills and interest.

It's probably there are some moderately inexpensive devices readily
available altho I've not done any looking. Undoubtedly there will be
info on the alternate-energy and living-off-grid and generator groups...

--

Mark wrote:
On Nov 26, 9:53 am, "Twayne" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?
Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.
You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.
http://www.functionaldevices.com/
http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8
http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx
TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.
A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.
Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yes but you do NOT want to turn off power to the fridge and then turn
it back on a few seconds later... the compressor will not be able to
re-start when the pressure is already built up in the system... it
will cycle on overload for a few minutes until the pressure dies
down. That is OK it won't BREAK anything right away but it does
stress the overload switch and compressor and is not the best thing to
do for long term.

Mark


Have you ever heard of an anti short cycle timer.
It's a little module available at the same HVAC
supply house as the other parts. The things are
very inexpensive and I install them on AC units
all the time. It would be easy to add it to the
setup. Do I have to design the darn thing now?


TDD

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

Pete C. wrote:
Twayne wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even
though it is not currently powered. This type of control just isn't
practical on a small scale where the cost of the control would exceed
the cost of a larger generator.
Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off etc.
Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

Christ! Just a simple anti short cycle timer
in the mix would do the trick. No big complicated
control setup needed. Ever heard of relay logic?
Nothing complicated needed for the application.

TDD

Twayne wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.


You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run,
even though it is not currently powered. This type of control just
isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of the control
would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

Of course it is. It's nothing but a logic setup. a = on, x = off
etc. Simple current monitoring or even clamps.

Nope, the end result of such simplicity will just be an intermittently
overloaded generator, devices damaged by short cycling, floods because
the sump pump didn't get enough run time, etc. Proper load management
requires the smarts along with sensing to hold off providing power to
item Y until item X has completed it's cycle.

You apparently don't understand a logic chart; or you wouldn't say that.
x & y are NOT equipment; they are states. And simple to work out.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD
Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and simply
dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come on won't
work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts, and
monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches, thermostats,
etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run, even though it is
not currently powered. This type of control just isn't practical on a
small scale where the cost of the control would exceed the cost of a
larger generator.
2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is to
swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for this
since you have to know the load of each of the controlled outputs and
determine the allowable combinations that will not overload the
generator.

Good Lord, you're making it more complicated than
it needs to be. I could do it quite simply with
all off the shelf inexpensive timers and relays.
I have had a smidgen of experience with little
Cats and tiny little 16 cylinder EMD generators
putting out a minuscule 4,160 volts and enough
current to melt the proverbial crowbar. Don't over
engineer the golly gosh darn thingy itty bitty
generator, it's not an APU on the space shuttle.
I guess all those 5 to 40kw generators I've installed
and maintained for homes and business have left me
with a substantial dearth of knowledge when it comes
to electrical systems. Should I walk you through
the simple steps that would address all your dire
concerns for blowing up the itty bitty power plant?
Of course, the simplest thing is as you say is to
switch cords but if he's anything like all of us
lazy humans who love to take advantage of existing
technology for the sake of convenience, he wants
something automatic.

TDD

Pete wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

You can easily build your own if you're handy
with electrical modules. You won't have to
build any circuit boards because the parts
are available off the shelf. You can use a
current sensor and relay module manufactured
by Functional Devices, Inc which are sold at
many HVAC supply houses like Johnstone Supply.

http://www.functionaldevices.com/

http://tinyurl.com/5fuhg8

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/Default.aspx

TDD

Generator load management is a bit more complicated than that and
simply dropping lower priority loads when higher priority ones come
on won't work properly and could potentially damage items.

A proper load management setup needs a controller with some smarts,
and monitoring connections to things like sump pump switches,
thermostats, etc. so that it can tell when an item needs to run,
even though it is not currently powered. This type of control just
isn't practical on a small scale where the cost of the control
would exceed the cost of a larger generator.

2,000 freaking watts! Geez! A very simple automatic switch
can do the trick for the guy. A current sensor, a timer
and a relay could make up a simple load control for the
man's generator to drop the refrigerator when the sump
pump kicks in. No micro-controller or fancy PLC needed.
If it involved 10,000 to 150,000 watts or more, I could
understand the need for more finesse. For a generator I
can pick up with one hand, nope, nope, nope.

TDD

Bull.

With a generator as small as 2KW, the generator will probably stall
before you can shed the new load, and even if it doesn't it will bog
down badly causing low voltage and low frequency issues. If it's an
inverter based unit like an EU2000i it will just go into protect mode
and you will loose output until you manually stop and restart the
generator.

You think it sounds simple, but you've clearly never done load
management, nor have you thought through the details of the problem.
With a generator that small, the OPs safest and simplest solution is
to swap power cords around manually.

Relay logic as you noted in another post would be a bloody mess for
this since you have to know the load of each of the controlled
outputs and determine the allowable combinations that will not
overload the generator.

You're making it even more obvious what you don't know. Because you
don't know how to do something is no reason for you to attack others who
might be on the right track. Your concepts of how relays can work is in
bad need of help also. When you have nothing worthwhile to say, that's
what you should say: Nothing.

On Nov 26, 3:45*am, Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.

--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

If you had a transfer switch it would be alot safer on the equipment,
a cheap one wont do what you want but will have 2 watt meters so you
know the load and can balance it. They are cheap and easy to install
many are prewired. Generac has one prewired with exterior baox cables
plugs tec for about 300, I got mine free at Lowes with a cheap gen.

Simplest would be to attach a 120 Volt NC (Normally Closed = ON) relay
to the compressor's two electrical feed wires. When the compressor is
running, the relay is activated and its contacts are open (=Off).
When the compressor has stopped, the relay closes and lets the sump
pump, e.g., run.

What you are seeking is akin to this
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001087.php
but with a reverse action. You could purchase a strip like this and
plug the frig into its power sensing socket. A NC relay could then be
plugged into the controlled sockets. Would do the same as above but
save you the trouble of messing with the refrigerator wiring.

Ron Hardin wrote:
Is there a power-strip like device for use with portable
generators that turns off outlets when other outlets are using
a certain number of watts?

Like you'd want to turn off the refrigerator while the sump pump
cycles, to keep the total watts under say 2000; but mostly the
refrigerator stays on.