On Nov 23, 7:51*pm, " wrote:
On Nov 23, 10:25 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:





In article , PeterD wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:40:02 -0800, "Bill"
wrote:

This thread has seemed to hit a nerve!

Why are so many people getting upset that I am working to eliminate "vampire
loads" in my house and reduce my electric bill?

Anyway here are the facts about "vampire power" for those who are interested
in this (can be 5% of your electric bill and 75% of the power for electronic
things is used while the devices are turned off!)....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power

Pleae do not confuse Wikipedia for facts. As to that 75% number, it is
highly suspect.

Again, a simple cost/benefit analysis would show the best path to
follow. However, simple math is beyond many people who blindly follow
whatever the current fad is (be it global warming, electric cars, or
whatever) in an attempt to appear 'on top of things', and 'all wise'.

In the end, sure you can save a few penny's of electricity, and spend
dollars doing so.

SNIP from here

Putting in a little effort can decrease idling load by maybe 20 watts,
give or take (with major variation from household to household). That
amounts to about 175 KWH per year, or roughly about $20 per year at
current average residential electricity rates.

I really ought to get a power strip for my TV. Most of the energy it
consumes is consumed while it is off. Same is true of my DTV box. If my
computer system was not on a power strip, most of the energy consumed by
my printer and cable modem (and its wallwart) would be consumed while they
are off. If not for the power strip, about 5% of the energy consumed by
my monitor and 20% of the energy consumed by the contents of my tower case
would be consumed while they were off. And over 90% of the energy
consumed by my landline phone is consumed while it is on standby.

That 75% number sounds high to me - I think more like 30%, possibly
40%, which is still a lot.

- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

tv life expectancy and othewr deevices may be less,turned off from
thermal cycle shock.

DTV boxes use idle time to download guide updates and other utilities.

its not a free lunch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Turning on and off electronic devices, does it shorten their life?
Even if it does the electricity saved over the life of the unit will
buy a newer more efficient unit when it finally dies.

So here is my own research, I have a TV that is about 25 years old and
most of those years it has been turned off at the power strip. It
gets used about and average of 1 hour per day and it still works.

I do know that the new cable boxes when shut off on a power strip
loose their programming and can take some time to turn back on.

So we need to press the manufactures of these devices to have a very
low consumption when we are not using them. I’ve measured several
cable and TV’s off and they can consume more than 40 watts off.

On Nov 25, 10:20*am, Dave Garland wrote:
Red Green wrote:
Probably cost a fortune to make refrigs that could use piped in air from
outside. And the further south you are the longer the ROI breakeven.

Yes. *I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. *It would
work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think
walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in bars).
*You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and dampers to
close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate the dampers &
fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the outside temperature is
warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature. *Ditto for the freezer,
though even in Minnesota there isn't that long a period when outside
temperature stays below 0 degrees F. *(But outside air could be used to
cool the coils of the powered refrigeration and increase its
efficiency.) *For that (in Minnesota) you could avoid much of the
refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months, and get some unknown
improvement most of the rest of the year.

One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not
constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can
insulate as much as you want. *The dampers and the door would be the
parts that were harder to insulate.

But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.

Dave


About 25 years ago I read an article about the guy that built a
supreinsulated freezer with thermal mass in it. He used a heat pipe
to freeze it al winter and it wouel swing through the summer.

Wow this is a long ways from a door bell

Andy Energy wrote in
:

On Nov 25, 10:20*am, Dave Garland wrote:
Red Green wrote:
Probably cost a fortune to make refrigs that could use piped in air
fro
m
outside. And the further south you are the longer the ROI
breakeven.

Yes. *I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. *It wou
ld
work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think
walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in
bars). *You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and
dampers to close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate
the dampers & fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the
outside temperature is warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature.
*Ditto for the freezer, though even in Minnesota there isn't that
long a period when outside temperature stays below 0 degrees F. *(But
outside air could be used to cool the coils of the powered
refrigeration and increase its efficiency.) *For that (in Minnesota)
you could avoid much of the refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months,
and get some unknown improvement most of the rest of the year.

One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not
constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can
insulate as much as you want. *The dampers and the door would be the
parts that were harder to insulate.

But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.

Dave


About 25 years ago I read an article about the guy that built a
supreinsulated freezer with thermal mass in it. He used a heat pipe
to freeze it al winter and it wouel swing through the summer.

Wow this is a long ways from a door bell

I have two lighted buttons. I'm gonna burn in Hell for it. I just know
it.

Andy Energy wrote:
Wow this is a long ways from a door bell

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