Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the
price a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This
would help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

One of the roofers offers to use a special "starter course" of
Certainteed shingles. Is this truly useful, or just something to
increase the price?

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

It's a lot of questions! I'd be grateful for any insights and info you
might have.

BC

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:37:53 -0400, BCDrums
wrote:

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the
price a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This
would help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

One of the roofers offers to use a special "starter course" of
Certainteed shingles. Is this truly useful, or just something to
increase the price?


The starter course is usually just some of the regular shingles with
the tabs cut off. Shingles made especially as a starter course for
architechural shingles may end up looking better.

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.


To do a ridge vent properly so it is effective, and worth doing at
all, you need to seal the gable vents and have soffit vents.
Otherwise, the ridge vent will not draft properly, defeating the reson
for having it. Sounds like only one roofer wants to do the job
correctly. The others want to cut important corners to be able to be
the low bidder. I know who I's choose from what you've said so far.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.


roofing nails are cheap, (5000 collated roofing nails for a gun are
about $45 retail) and with a nailgun, they go in fast - very fast.
Shouldn't really affect the price very much.

It's a lot of questions! I'd be grateful for any insights and info you
might have.

BC

"BCDrums" wrote

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

Vacation cottage? Ok. Cold and dry or wet and hot area? Makes a
difference.

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the price
a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This would
help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

Probably no real difference.

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting, I
wonder if it is worth the extra cost.

Climate dependant as well as one other thing. If it's a vacation cottage,
how often is it occupied? You may not want to spend more for a proper
soffit job if you only occupy it in mild seasons (presuming you do not need
it for dampness control).

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

Probably not, but to me that they'd even think to go above minimum there,
means they may do better work elsewhere as well.

cshenk wrote:

"BCDrums" wrote



Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:



Vacation cottage? Ok. Cold and dry or wet and hot area? Makes a
difference.



All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the price
a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This would
help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.



Probably no real difference.



The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting, I
wonder if it is worth the extra cost.



Climate dependant as well as one other thing. If it's a vacation cottage,
how often is it occupied? You may not want to spend more for a proper
soffit job if you only occupy it in mild seasons (presuming you do not need
it for dampness control).



One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.



Probably not, but to me that they'd even think to go above minimum there,
means they may do better work elsewhere as well.




If you go to certainteed's website, you can find install instructions by
wading through several screens. The installation
instructions vary by how steep the slope is, but you can (and should)
read it all he
http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonly...anual8Ch13.pdf

I found instructions to use four nails per shingles, but didn't read the
whole nine pages, so be sure to look at what applies for
your roof.
I would also look up all of the warranty info. You can call a roofing
supplier to check the cost in your area.

Seems that adding ridge vents without soffit vents would be rather useless.

On Sep 6, 6:23 pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"BCDrums" wrote

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

Vacation cottage? Ok. Cold and dry or wet and hot area? Makes a
difference.

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the price
a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This would
help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

Probably no real difference.

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting, I
wonder if it is worth the extra cost.

Climate dependant as well as one other thing. If it's a vacation cottage,
how often is it occupied? You may not want to spend more for a proper
soffit job if you only occupy it in mild seasons (presuming you do not need
it for dampness control).

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

Probably not, but to me that they'd even think to go above minimum there,
means they may do better work elsewhere as well.

I got a new roof last year. It was the architectural GAF shingles. I
am in FL where the codes are stricter because of the possibility of
high winds. On the ridge vent...I went to the GAF web site and
remember reading that the gable ends needed to be closed. This meant
covering the vents at each end of the house, put there when it was
built.
I already had soffits with ventilation holes so that wasn't a
problem. The new codes required that the plywood decking be nailed
(as opposed to staples) and it told how many were required per foot.
The shingles also had to meet a certain code (each state may be
different). I believe GAF will not guarantee the warranty unless the
shingles are installed the way they say do it - and probably other
companies are the same. Before you commit to any one company you need
to find out what the building code requirements are and make sure the
company you are dealing with is licensed, insured and plans to pull
the proper permits. Also look online for the web site of the roofing
manufacturer and see what they require to warrant the roof.

wrote:
On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:37:53 -0400, BCDrums
wrote:


The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.


To do a ridge vent properly so it is effective, and worth doing at
all, you need to seal the gable vents and have soffit vents.
Otherwise, the ridge vent will not draft properly, defeating the reson
for having it. Sounds like only one roofer wants to do the job
correctly. The others want to cut important corners to be able to be
the low bidder. I know who I's choose from what you've said so far.

I believe in my state they are required to do a ridge vent. Many people
get the ridge vent with a new roof, but many do not update to soffit
vents. When I had the roof at my home done, the cost to install the
soffit vents was extraordinary due to the way the house is built, so I
skipped them.

The sole roofer who put them in his bid for the cottage was double the
price of the next bidder ($10,500 vs. $5300). I am sure his work is
great, but cost is an object.


One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.


roofing nails are cheap, (5000 collated roofing nails for a gun are
about $45 retail) and with a nailgun, they go in fast - very fast.
Shouldn't really affect the price very much.

That's a good point. thanks for your comments.

BC

cshenk wrote:
"BCDrums" wrote

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

Vacation cottage? Ok. Cold and dry or wet and hot area? Makes a
difference.

New England. Hot and often humid in the summer, cold and snowy in the
winter. House is only occupied from Memorial day to October 15.


One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

Probably not, but to me that they'd even think to go above minimum there,
means they may do better work elsewhere as well.


A good point!

BC

Norminn wrote:

If you go to certainteed's website, you can find install instructions by
wading through several screens. The installation
instructions vary by how steep the slope is, but you can (and should)
read it all he
http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonly...anual8Ch13.pdf


I found instructions to use four nails per shingles, but didn't read the
whole nine pages, so be sure to look at what applies for
your roof.
I would also look up all of the warranty info. You can call a roofing
supplier to check the cost in your area.

Thanks, I will read the installation instructions

Seems that adding ridge vents without soffit vents would be rather useless.

The ridge vent is required in my state, but the cottage was built in
1960, and has never had one.

Thanks!

BC

Dottie wrote:


I got a new roof last year. It was the architectural GAF shingles. I
am in FL where the codes are stricter because of the possibility of
high winds. On the ridge vent...I went to the GAF web site and
remember reading that the gable ends needed to be closed. This meant
covering the vents at each end of the house, put there when it was
built.
I already had soffits with ventilation holes so that wasn't a
problem. The new codes required that the plywood decking be nailed
(as opposed to staples) and it told how many were required per foot.
The shingles also had to meet a certain code (each state may be
different). I believe GAF will not guarantee the warranty unless the
shingles are installed the way they say do it - and probably other
companies are the same. Before you commit to any one company you need
to find out what the building code requirements are and make sure the
company you are dealing with is licensed, insured and plans to pull
the proper permits. Also look online for the web site of the roofing
manufacturer and see what they require to warrant the roof.

I have read the Certainteed warranty, and they specify that the roof
must be "properly vented," a term they do not define. I tend to think
that shingle warranties are almost useless. The Certainteed warranty
covers shingles and the labor to replace them in the first 5 years, but
NOT removal of defective shingles or disposal.

Things may be different in Hurricane Alley. Good luck this week!

BC

On Sep 6, 3:37*pm, BCDrums wrote:
Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.


Do it right and get the soffit vents and normally also close off
the gable end vents.

"BCDrums" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Vacation cottage? Ok. Cold and dry or wet and hot area? Makes a
difference.

New England. Hot and often humid in the summer, cold and snowy in the
winter. House is only occupied from Memorial day to October 15.

Hot is relative. Not hot enough up there to be a problem. Dampness might
be a concern but proper ridge vents will handle your heat needs well enough.

You arent using it in winter either so heat loss isnt as much of an issue I
take it.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

Probably not, but to me that they'd even think to go above minimum there,
means they may do better work elsewhere as well.

A good point!

Main one I saw, and that soffits may not be needed for your conditions. I'd
go with the 5300$ or so fellow if he's the one who made for extra nails. It
doesnt hurt to have that extra care used.

Be sure to get an estimate per sheet for any plywood that may need replacing
as well. Usually there are a few nominal ones that are much cheaper to deal
with then.

BCDrums wrote:
Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the
price a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This
would help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

Contact a building supply house/lumber yard in your area. Get their
price. Shipping may be a significant component of the price.

One of the roofers offers to use a special "starter course" of
Certainteed shingles. Is this truly useful, or just something to
increase the price?

You need a starter course. I'd prefer to use the same shingle as the
rest of the roof, although the cost differential shouldn't be much.
Usually the starter course is a lower grade shingle than the remainder
of the roof.

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.

Add the ridge vents. The air that exits the ridge vents has to come in
some where...ideally through the soffit vents. The area of the ridge
vents and the soffit vents should be close to the same.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

I'm 75 feet from the ocean in NE. Four nails is enough.

It's a lot of questions! I'd be grateful for any insights and info you
might have.

BC

In article ,
BCDrums wrote:

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the
price a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This
would help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

One of the roofers offers to use a special "starter course" of
Certainteed shingles. Is this truly useful, or just something to
increase the price?

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.

It's a lot of questions! I'd be grateful for any insights and info you
might have.

BC

Can't really help you with details, but I just spent about 10k for new
roof and gutters on a 1200 sq. ft. house (plus 2 car attached garage.)

I went with the guys who made the most sense when I talked to them. They
addressed some issues that others didn't, and to me it just seemed like
a more professional outfit.

I mitigated the higher price by being straight up about it: "I'd like to
go with your company, but the price is a bit high. If I paid you cash on
the day the job was complete, could you knock 10% off that quote?"

Smitty Two wrote:

BC

Can't really help you with details, but I just spent about 10k for new
roof and gutters on a 1200 sq. ft. house (plus 2 car attached garage.)

I went with the guys who made the most sense when I talked to them. They
addressed some issues that others didn't, and to me it just seemed like
a more professional outfit.

I mitigated the higher price by being straight up about it: "I'd like to
go with your company, but the price is a bit high. If I paid you cash on
the day the job was complete, could you knock 10% off that quote?"

And they did?

BC

In article ,
BCDrums wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

BC

Can't really help you with details, but I just spent about 10k for new
roof and gutters on a 1200 sq. ft. house (plus 2 car attached garage.)

I went with the guys who made the most sense when I talked to them. They
addressed some issues that others didn't, and to me it just seemed like
a more professional outfit.

I mitigated the higher price by being straight up about it: "I'd like to
go with your company, but the price is a bit high. If I paid you cash on
the day the job was complete, could you knock 10% off that quote?"

And they did?

BC

Indeed they did. I think most contractors are willing to work with you a
bit on price if they realize you're not making your choice based on
price. In this case they were still the highest, but that brought them
down into more palatable territory. For me it's better to make a choice
based on other factors, and negotiate price later.

In article ,
Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
BCDrums wrote:

Indeed they did. I think most contractors are willing to work with you a
bit on price if they realize you're not making your choice based on
price. In this case they were still the highest, but that brought them
down into more palatable territory. For me it's better to make a choice
based on other factors, and negotiate price later.

Cash as in old, multiple denomination, non-sequential bills?

In article
,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
BCDrums wrote:

Indeed they did. I think most contractors are willing to work with you a
bit on price if they realize you're not making your choice based on
price. In this case they were still the highest, but that brought them
down into more palatable territory. For me it's better to make a choice
based on other factors, and negotiate price later.

Cash as in old, multiple denomination, non-sequential bills?

LOL, no, cash as in no credit card processing fees, no sending invoices
for three months and making a dozen phone calls trying to get paid for
work done.

Cash flow is the bane of a great many small businesses, and a customer
who understands that and offers to help with it is usually appreciated.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:29:28 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:



Cash as in old, multiple denomination, non-sequential bills?

That's a good question. I say that because sometimes I will offer a
customer a ten percent discount if they pay in cash. You would not
believe how many idiots think cash means a check will do. It won't,
cash means just that, cold, hard, greenbacks. Now I tell anyone that I
make that offer to just that so there are no misunderstandings.

In article ,
Old Time Contractor wrote:

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:29:28 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:



Cash as in old, multiple denomination, non-sequential bills?

That's a good question. I say that because sometimes I will offer a
customer a ten percent discount if they pay in cash. You would not
believe how many idiots think cash means a check will do. It won't,
cash means just that, cold, hard, greenbacks. Now I tell anyone that I
make that offer to just that so there are no misunderstandings.

In my book, cash means greenbacks when it's $100. When it's $10k, I
don't think most people would think so. I wouldn't do business with a
company that was interested in tax evasion at that level.

In article ,
Old Time Contractor wrote:

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:29:28 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:



Cash as in old, multiple denomination, non-sequential bills?

That's a good question. I say that because sometimes I will offer a
customer a ten percent discount if they pay in cash. You would not
believe how many idiots think cash means a check will do. It won't,
cash means just that, cold, hard, greenbacks. Now I tell anyone that I
make that offer to just that so there are no misunderstandings.

The problem with that, at least from my standpoint and past
experiences, is that cash also indicates tax "mitigation" (or maybe
evasion). So, if the person is a touch dodgy with Uncle Sam, how am I
supposed to know if they also take a shortcut with me to save some extra
money.

Also make sure they cut a vent for the ridgevent and not just nail it on top
of the peak.


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:37:53 -0400, BCDrums
wrote:

Our family's little vacation cottage needs a new roof. I got four
estimates, ranging from $3200 to $10,000 for a 1400 square foot roof.
There are two layers to be stripped off. My questions:

All four roofers offer Certainteed 30 year architectural shingles. There
are two model names, Woodscape and Landmark 30. Does anyone know the
price a contractor would pay for 100 sq ft. of those two shingles? This
would help me to understand what part of these bids might be materials.

One of the roofers offers to use a special "starter course" of
Certainteed shingles. Is this truly useful, or just something to
increase the price?


The starter course is usually just some of the regular shingles with
the tabs cut off. Shingles made especially as a starter course for
architechural shingles may end up looking better.

The house has gable vents and no ridge vent. All four roofers will add a
ridge vent, but one wants to put in soffit venting at the eaves and seal
the gable vents. While I understand the idea behind the soffit venting,
I wonder if it is worth the extra cost.


To do a ridge vent properly so it is effective, and worth doing at
all, you need to seal the gable vents and have soffit vents.
Otherwise, the ridge vent will not draft properly, defeating the reson
for having it. Sounds like only one roofer wants to do the job
correctly. The others want to cut important corners to be able to be
the low bidder. I know who I's choose from what you've said so far.

One roofer proposes 6 nails per shingle vs. 4 nails. We are a mile from
the ocean, and occasionally get a Nor'Easter. However, I doubt that the
current roof had 6 nails and it has lasted well.


roofing nails are cheap, (5000 collated roofing nails for a gun are
about $45 retail) and with a nailgun, they go in fast - very fast.
Shouldn't really affect the price very much.

It's a lot of questions! I'd be grateful for any insights and info you
might have.

BC

Art wrote:
Also make sure they cut a vent for the ridgevent and not just nail it on top
of the peak.


Yikes!

BC