I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

On 5/20/2008 3:29 PM Ozzie spake thus:

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

Nothing which is any good for you, I'd guess.

As discussed here and elsewhere, the longevity of CFLs varies all over
the place. My own experience has been, for the most part, the exact
opposite of yours: all my CFLs, including some I bought more than 5
years ago and use all the time, are still burning nicely. Depends on the
brand, etc.

I've only ever had one fail somewhat catastrophically, and it did emit a
pungent, foul odor, that "cooked electronics" smell.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

"Ozzie" wrote in :

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't
read enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as
normal bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years.
That's probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to
replace my bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand
total of 14, which failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span.
These are/were the dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of
0.90. They are listed as UL, and energy star, and claims to use only
15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out,
which let out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what
is being released?




probably an electrolytic cap venting,in the electronic ballast.
many electrolytics only have a lifetime of a few 1000 hrs.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 5/20/2008 3:29 PM Ozzie spake thus:

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't
read enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as
normal bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years.
That's probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to
replace my bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand
total of 14, which failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span.
These are/were the dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of
0.90. They are listed as UL, and energy star, and claims to use only
15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out,
which let out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what
is being released?


Nothing which is any good for you, I'd guess.

As discussed here and elsewhere, the longevity of CFLs varies all over
the place. My own experience has been, for the most part, the exact
opposite of yours: all my CFLs, including some I bought more than 5
years ago and use all the time, are still burning nicely. Depends on the
brand, etc.

I've only ever had one fail somewhat catastrophically, and it did emit a
pungent, foul odor, that "cooked electronics" smell.



My experiences are the same - only had one burn out, but that one got
very hot and smelled like fried electronics. Which worries me somewhat;
the main reason I'm using so many CFLs is because of the old wiring in
this house; I don't want it to get fried crispy by bulb heat before I
get a chance to replace it all.

But I've been here a year and a half and this is the first one I've had
to replace, so... so far so good.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Ozzie wrote:

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

Try a different brand, and analyze your dimmers and power in general for
problems. I've used a lot of CFLs of various brands and none of them
have given me any issues or short life spans, not the ones that operate
a few hours a day, nor the few that are 24x365 (no, at 24x365, they last
~3 years, not 7). I haven't used many dimmable CFLs though the few I
have used also worked fine.

On May 20, 5:29*pm, "Ozzie" wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

Ive had 2 failures with HDs bulbs out of about 60 in a few years, hd
has a 9 yr warranty, buy some and keep the reciept

In article , Ozzie wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Can you describe these and tell me what brand? I am unaware of any
15 watt CFLs that achieve 75 watt "incandescent equivalence", and I am
unaware of any making that claim and having the "Energy Star" logo.

Also, what kind of fixtures are you using them in? Many CFLs overheat
easily in small enclosed fixtures and recessede ceiling fixtures.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

Usually any smoke from a failing CFL is mainly smoke from burnt epoxy.
Smells foul, but have low expectation that even being in a telephone booth
with a CFL failing in such a way is even as harmful as smoking one
cigarette.

CFLs failing from overheating can have an electrolytic capacitor blow -
that has mainly been a complaint from the 1990's to around 2002.
However, this may still occur if a CFL is operated in a small enclosed
fixture or a recessed ceilingh fixture, or manages to last long enough for
that part to fail first from old age. The main ingredients are typically
water and either boric acid or sodium borate ("borax"). Sugars or other
antifreeze ingredients such as ethylene glycol may be there. Since that
entire capacitor including its aluminum foil "wound plates" and its
aluminum "can" and plastic coating and wire leads only weighs 2-5 grams or
so, I would think you would almost have to put it and your favorite
beverage into a blender and then drink the result or grind it up and mix
it with your pipe tobacco to make yourself sick from it.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ozzie" wrote in :

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't
read enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as
normal bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years.
That's probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to
replace my bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand
total of 14, which failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span.
These are/were the dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of
0.90. They are listed as UL, and energy star, and claims to use only
15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out,
which let out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what
is being released?

probably an electrolytic cap venting,in the electronic ballast.
many electrolytics only have a lifetime of a few 1000 hrs.

Many electrolytics are rated to only last a few 1,000's of hours at some
specific high temperature, usually 85 or 105 degrees C.

If the odor is "burnt electronics", then I suspect some other part (or
other parts) blowing due to random failure or age/heat failure.

I have heard of CFLs with design that hasthe electronics blow when the
bulb part has aged into "a state of failure" (my words). I do think that
manufacturers of those would do well to add a fuse that blows as a result
of electronics failure, and blows to keep the electronics (fuse-acting
subset thereof) from having to serve as a fuse with smoke output.
It's a shame that American businesses have so much pressure for
profitibility on short-term basis that they are sometimes rewarded rather
than punished for improving their bottom line by layoffs of their
employees that will make them grow longer-term (salespeople that gain new
customers and R&D).

- Don Klipstein )

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
...

Can you describe these and tell me what brand? I am unaware of any
15 watt CFLs that achieve 75 watt "incandescent equivalence", and I am
unaware of any making that claim and having the "Energy Star" logo.


Here's a link of the exact bulbs. Although, I didn't buy them here, and
didn't pay nearly what this place wants for them. The brand is ULA ( U
Lighting America).

http://www.greenercountry.com/store/...uiv-32p818.htm




Also, what kind of fixtures are you using them in? Many CFLs overheat
easily in small enclosed fixtures and recessede ceiling fixtures.

The bulbs which go out, are used in a 4 bulb fixture. They're in the
bathroom, over the vanity. Not enclosed. They have gone out when you flick
the switch on. There's never been moisture in the bathroom, when the bulbs
went out.

I also had them go out, in the lamp post outside. Weird, because all
winter, none ever went out. I've replaced 3 bulbs, since winter is over.

A couple of them, have gone out in regular table lamps.

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's probably
the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my bulbs, as often
as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which failed
prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the dimmable
mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as UL, and
energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out, which let
out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly what is being
released?

I've either had very good luck or very bad luck as far a CFL lifespan
goes. I have many that are over 8 years and still going strong. I did
get one batch of six where the bulbs didn't even last 3 months.

I sent an email to the manufacturer, letting them know where they were
purchased, the date code on the bulb, about the installation and short
lifespan. They happily mailed out replacements and they're going
strong. It can't hurt to drop them a message.

Did you purchase all the bulbs at the same time, or from the same
store? All one brand? I'd try another brand just to see if it makes a
difference.

I also mark the installation date on the base of the bulb so I can get
a good idea of how long these things acutally last.

--
Fight Usenet Spam!!! - http://improve-usenet.org:80/

Want a great newsgroup reader that will filter out the flood of
newgroup spam?
Try MesNews - http://www.mesnews.net/gb/

If you want your posts to be seen, DON'T USE GOOGLE GROUPS!

Don Klipstein wrote:

I have heard of CFLs with design that hasthe electronics blow when the
bulb part has aged into "a state of failure" (my words). I do think that
manufacturers of those would do well to add a fuse that blows as a result
of electronics failure, and blows to keep the electronics (fuse-acting
subset thereof) from having to serve as a fuse with smoke output.
- Don Klipstein )

Hi Don,

Self destruct was one of the recommendations for the fed CFL
design contest since attempting to start a bad bulb caused
the most risk for a fire from component failure. One of the
component manufacturers had a novel circuit that shut down
when the inverter went high frequency when a bad bulb no
longer provided a proper load.

The last few cfls we've opened up have either a micro fuse
or a 5mm fuse in a piece of heat shrink that serves as a
"jumper" between the pc board and the center lead of the
lamp base. Some earlier cfls had a 0.1" piece of ~#30
magnet wire stuck between two pads on the pc board or a 22
ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with the input. I guess
it's easier to UL qualify a UL recognized fuse ;-)

-- larry / dallas

(Don Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Ozzie wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Can you describe these and tell me what brand? I am unaware of any
15 watt CFLs that achieve 75 watt "incandescent equivalence", and I am
unaware of any making that claim and having the "Energy Star" logo.

Also, what kind of fixtures are you using them in? Many CFLs overheat
easily in small enclosed fixtures and recessede ceiling fixtures.

Don, you seem to be some sort of spokesman or at least apologist for
the CFL industry. My experience is much the same as the OP and I have
at least 100 CFL bulbs in the house. Why do I keep buying them? I
suppose because the electricity rates in my neck of the woods are so
high and I kid myself into believing that despite the high cost of
replacement I still make out in the long term. One of these days I'll
have to make the calculation.

As to your statement that they overheat in small enclosed and recessed
ceiling fixtures, I suppose "overheat" means that they fail. Just
where on the package does it say "can't be used in overhead enclosed
fixtures"? I have eleven dome-shaped hall ceiling fixtures -- the type
with a big glass bowl and a center (usually brass-looking) nut to hold
the bowl to the ceiling (box). They're sold in HD and Lowes in
contractor packs of three and last time I checked (last weekend) both
retailers had huge displays of them. Oh and BTW all except the very
oldest bulbs (15 or so years) all come from these retailers, not
dollar stores! Now surely the manufacturers can't claim that they
don't know about these fixtures (a couple were bought with CFL bulbs
in them), certainly HD and Lowes can't. So if these are the type of
"overhead ceiling fixtures" that shouldn't have CFL's in them where
are the warning signs on both the fixtures and the bulbs? Oh, yeah and
the idea is rubbish. In my bathroom I have two recessed cans over the
shower (lots of steam and heat and the bulbs are totally recessed) and
the CFL's in them have lasted more than seven years. Of course the
shower lights aren't on for the same time as the hall each day.

I also find that the CFL's half-expire. If you get up on the ladder
over the stairs and juggle the glass bowl and fitting and touch the
unlit CFL...miracle of miracles...it lights. For about a week. Then
you can go through the same effort again. This evening I put on the
light in the room I have as an office, a six bulb CFL candelabra type
in gas light type (open) shades, and one bulb didn't go on. Jiggle,
and a miracle occurred... it went on. I fully expect to replace it in
the next couple of weeks. BTW it's a Sylvania Deco Medium 7W. Probably
about $7 each. There goes the energy saving for the year on that
fixture.

You might ask why I don't exercise my right to get a new one as
Commercial Electric used to advertise. I did once. 800 # and all that
and put up with the abuse about enclosed fittings. No point in arguing
with the girl on the line. They replaced the bulb grudgingly IMO but
it was hardly worth it. The only way these sorts of guarantees are
going to work is if the retailer is obliged to do a one-for-one
exchange until seven years after the DOM (printed in clear on the
bulb). Similar to the Sears Craftsman guarantee. Then I could just
save them up and batch exchange them at HD. I'd never have to buy
another light bulb.

Which brings me to another point. It's no good talking about degrees
Kelvin or CRI's unless the mfg puts these on the packaging and
preferably on the bulb itself. Just why can't they do this? And why
can't they calculate the degrees Kelvin and CRI for (say) a GE Soft
White 60W incandescent bulb and produce exactly those numbers in a
CFL? No BS about "daylight" or "Kitchen and Bath", just "This CFL is
EXACTLY the same as [a standard incandescent bulb]." I think that that
statement (if truthful) would be a big selling point.

As to longevity when you were dealing with an incandescent costing
$0.25 I and most people would put up with an "average life." If we had
one fail before this time we'd shrug and accept that probably we had
others that lasted twice the average. That's not true when bulbs cost
$5 and up (yeah, by the gross and on sale you can sometimes get them
for $1 or so, but somehow that never seems to work for me). For CFL's
I'd like to see average life and minimum life (expressed in years
unless the mfg wants to come up with some sort of odometer).

Oh yeah, and delay in coming up to speed (the other thread). I have
the same experience as the other OP and not in a garage but, for
example, in the kitchen. I have one four tube normal fluorescent, one
two tube, one equivalent 150W CFL and one equivalent 100W CFL. The
tube types light up almost as fast as an incandescent to full
brightness. The CFL's ... well, don't plan on reading anything for a
couple of minutes. Same goes in the bedrooms one of which has 15 CFL
40W equivalents. Light a candle first so you can see for the first
minute or twog.

Nope CFL's are not yet ready for prime time.

On May 21, 12:41*am, wrote:
(Don Klipstein) wrote:
In article , Ozzie wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.
*Can you describe these and tell me what brand? *I am unaware of any
15 watt CFLs that achieve 75 watt "incandescent equivalence", and I am
unaware of any making that claim and having the "Energy Star" logo.
*Also, what kind of fixtures are you using them in? *Many CFLs overheat
easily in small enclosed fixtures and recessede ceiling fixtures.

Don, you seem to be some sort of spokesman or at least apologist for
the CFL industry. My experience is much the same as the OP and I have
at least 100 CFL bulbs in the house. Why do I keep buying them? I
suppose because the electricity rates in my neck of the woods are so
high and I kid myself into believing that despite the high cost of
replacement I still make out in the long term. One of these days I'll
have to make the calculation.

As to your statement that they overheat in small enclosed and recessed
ceiling fixtures, I suppose "overheat" means that they fail. Just
where on the package does it say "can't be used in overhead enclosed
fixtures"? I have eleven dome-shaped hall ceiling fixtures -- the type
with a big glass bowl and a center (usually brass-looking) nut to hold
the bowl to the ceiling (box). They're sold in HD and Lowes in
contractor packs of three and last time I checked (last weekend) both
retailers had huge displays of them. Oh and BTW all except the very
oldest bulbs (15 or so years) all come from these retailers, not
dollar stores! Now surely the manufacturers can't claim that they
don't know about these fixtures (a couple were bought with CFL bulbs
in them), certainly HD and Lowes can't. So if these are the type of
"overhead ceiling fixtures" that shouldn't have CFL's in them where
are the warning signs on both the fixtures and the bulbs? Oh, yeah and
the idea is rubbish. In my bathroom I have two recessed cans over the
shower (lots of steam and heat and the bulbs are totally recessed) and
the CFL's in them have lasted more than seven years. Of course the
shower lights aren't on for the same time as the hall each day.

I also find that the CFL's half-expire. If you get up on the ladder
over the stairs and juggle the glass bowl and fitting and touch the
unlit CFL...miracle of miracles...it lights. For about a week. Then
you can go through the same effort again. This evening I put on the
light in the room I have as an office, a six bulb CFL candelabra type
in gas light type (open) shades, and one bulb didn't go on. Jiggle,
and a miracle occurred... it went on. I fully expect to replace it in
the next couple of weeks. BTW it's a Sylvania Deco Medium 7W. Probably
about $7 each. There goes the energy saving for the year on that
fixture.

You might ask why I don't exercise my right to get a new one as
Commercial Electric used to advertise. I did once. 800 # and all that
and put up with the abuse about enclosed fittings. No point in arguing
with the girl on the line. They replaced the bulb grudgingly IMO but
it was hardly worth it. The only way these sorts of guarantees are
going to work is if the retailer is obliged to do a one-for-one
exchange until seven years after the DOM (printed in clear on the
bulb). Similar to the Sears Craftsman guarantee. Then I could just
save them up and batch exchange them at HD. I'd never have to buy
another light bulb.

Which brings me to another point. It's no good talking about degrees
Kelvin or CRI's unless the mfg puts these on the packaging and
preferably on the bulb itself. Just why can't they do this? And why
can't they calculate the degrees Kelvin and CRI for (say) a GE Soft
White 60W incandescent bulb and produce exactly those numbers in a
CFL? No BS about "daylight" or "Kitchen and Bath", just "This CFL is
EXACTLY the same as [a standard incandescent bulb]." I think that that
statement (if truthful) would be a big selling point.

As to longevity when you were dealing with an incandescent costing
$0.25 I and most people would put up with an "average life." If we had
one fail before this time we'd shrug and accept that probably we had
others that lasted twice the average. That's not true when bulbs cost
$5 and up (yeah, by the gross and on sale you can sometimes get them
for $1 or so, but somehow that never seems to work for me). For CFL's
I'd like to see average life and minimum life (expressed in years
unless the mfg wants to come up with some sort of odometer).

Oh yeah, and delay in coming up to speed (the other thread). I have
the same experience as the other OP and not in a garage but, for
example, in the kitchen. I have one four tube normal fluorescent, one
two tube, one equivalent 150W CFL and one equivalent 100W CFL. The
tube types light up almost as fast as an incandescent to full
brightness. The CFL's ... well, don't plan on reading anything for a
couple of minutes. Same goes in the bedrooms one of which has 15 CFL
40W equivalents. Light a candle first so you can see for the first
minute or twog.

Nope CFL's are not yet ready for prime time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I havnt tried HDs warranty yet but I wonder if its a walk in deal, it
better be. Ive had very good luck with HD soft white cfl even on
getting bright quickly, even working at -10f. Considering that about
95 watts of a 100 watt incandesant is output in heat, meaning I get 5
watts of visable light out of a 100 watt bulb, and that 11, 100 watt
incandesants will just put an extra load on my AC this summer
equivilant to running a 1000 watt electric heater, I find cfls the
smartest option. On several buildings I have cut electric usage
30-50%, im willing to give up a few things to save not only on
lighting costs but on the AC electric bill. I have these running years
all night on a photo cell. Their longest life is constant on, but in
years it seems even more to me. I saw there are maybe 20-30
manufacturers in China, so sure there is alot of crap and defects
made. ACE has a easy return policy on everything, I just hope HD does
as well.

(Don Klipstein) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:
"Ozzie" wrote in :

I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I
haven't read enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened
to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as
normal bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years.
That's probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to
replace my bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand
total of 14, which failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time
span. These are/were the dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power
factor of 0.90. They are listed as UL, and energy star, and claims
to use only 15 watts.

Something else about these things. I've now had 3 of them go out,
which let out a puff of smoke. It's a foul smelling odor. Exactly
what is being released?

probably an electrolytic cap venting,in the electronic ballast.
many electrolytics only have a lifetime of a few 1000 hrs.

Many electrolytics are rated to only last a few 1,000's of hours at
some
specific high temperature, usually 85 or 105 degrees C.

but then there are ESR problems and failures.electrolytics DO fail at lower
temps.

If the odor is "burnt electronics", then I suspect some other part
(or
other parts) blowing due to random failure or age/heat failure.

I have heard of CFLs with design that hasthe electronics blow when
the
bulb part has aged into "a state of failure" (my words). I do think
that manufacturers of those would do well to add a fuse that blows as
a result of electronics failure, and blows to keep the electronics
(fuse-acting subset thereof) from having to serve as a fuse with smoke
output.
It's a shame that American businesses have so much pressure for
profitibility on short-term basis that they are sometimes rewarded
rather than punished for improving their bottom line by layoffs of
their employees that will make them grow longer-term (salespeople that
gain new customers and R&D).

- Don Klipstein )

The CFL is a throwaway item once it's failed;there's no point in putting
in a fuse to protect the electronics,they will not be reused.

since the CFL has died,he could take it apart and look around to see what's
failed.It could be a leaking cap,a burnt resistor,or fired
transistor.There's not much on the ballast PCB;I've got one right here in
front of me.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On 5/21/2008 5:14 AM Jim Yanik spake thus:

(Don Klipstein) wrote in
:

I have heard of CFLs with design that hasthe electronics blow when
the bulb part has aged into "a state of failure" (my words). I do
think that manufacturers of those would do well to add a fuse that
blows as a result of electronics failure, and blows to keep the
electronics (fuse-acting subset thereof) from having to serve as a
fuse with smoke output.

It's a shame that American businesses have so much pressure for
profitibility on short-term basis that they are sometimes rewarded
rather than punished for improving their bottom line by layoffs of
their employees that will make them grow longer-term (salespeople that
gain new customers and R&D).

The CFL is a throwaway item once it's failed;there's no point in putting
in a fuse to protect the electronics,they will not be reused.

You seem to have missed the point; the fuse is there to protect *us*
from smoking electronics.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

In article ,
wrote in part:
(Don Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Ozzie wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent posts, on CFL's. Maybe I haven't read
enough of them, to find the same thing, which happened to mine.

First, I'm really disappointed, they don't have the life span, as normal
bulbs. My packages claim to have a life span, up to 7 years. That's
probably the "got cha", the "up to". But, I've never had to replace my
bulbs, as often as I do these. I've now replaced a grand total of 14, which
failed prematurely. This is in a 5 month time span. These are/were the
dimmable mini's, 75 watt, with a power factor of 0.90. They are listed as
UL, and energy star, and claims to use only 15 watts.

Can you describe these and tell me what brand? I am unaware of any
15 watt CFLs that achieve 75 watt "incandescent equivalence", and I am
unaware of any making that claim and having the "Energy Star" logo.

Also, what kind of fixtures are you using them in? Many CFLs overheat
easily in small enclosed fixtures and recessede ceiling fixtures.

Don, you seem to be some sort of spokesman or at least apologist for
the CFL industry. My experience is much the same as the OP and I have
at least 100 CFL bulbs in the house. Why do I keep buying them? I
suppose because the electricity rates in my neck of the woods are so
high and I kid myself into believing that despite the high cost of
replacement I still make out in the long term. One of these days I'll
have to make the calculation.

As to your statement that they overheat in small enclosed and recessed
ceiling fixtures, I suppose "overheat" means that they fail. Just
where on the package does it say "can't be used in overhead enclosed
fixtures"?

On the worse brand ones that can't, they don't say so. Just last week I
saw on some Philips ones state on the package a "reliable temperature
range" (I may not remember the exact words) whose upper limit is 60
degrees C, and that life can be shortened in recessed cans. Philips has
some others specifically rated for use in recessed cans.

I have eleven dome-shaped hall ceiling fixtures -- the type
with a big glass bowl and a center (usually brass-looking) nut to hold
the bowl to the ceiling (box). They're sold in HD and Lowes in
contractor packs of three and last time I checked (last weekend) both
retailers had huge displays of them. Oh and BTW all except the very
oldest bulbs (15 or so years) all come from these retailers, not
dollar stores! Now surely the manufacturers can't claim that they
don't know about these fixtures (a couple were bought with CFL bulbs
in them), certainly HD and Lowes can't. So if these are the type of
"overhead ceiling fixtures" that shouldn't have CFL's in them where
are the warning signs on both the fixtures and the bulbs? Oh, yeah and
the idea is rubbish. In my bathroom I have two recessed cans over the
shower (lots of steam and heat and the bulbs are totally recessed) and
the CFL's in them have lasted more than seven years. Of course the
shower lights aren't on for the same time as the hall each day.

I also find that the CFL's half-expire. If you get up on the ladder
over the stairs and juggle the glass bowl and fitting and touch the
unlit CFL...miracle of miracles...it lights. For about a week. Then
you can go through the same effort again. This evening I put on the
light in the room I have as an office, a six bulb CFL candelabra type
in gas light type (open) shades, and one bulb didn't go on. Jiggle,
and a miracle occurred... it went on. I fully expect to replace it in
the next couple of weeks. BTW it's a Sylvania Deco Medium 7W. Probably
about $7 each. There goes the energy saving for the year on that
fixture.

You might ask why I don't exercise my right to get a new one as
Commercial Electric used to advertise. I did once. 800 # and all that
and put up with the abuse about enclosed fittings. No point in arguing
with the girl on the line. They replaced the bulb grudgingly IMO but
it was hardly worth it. The only way these sorts of guarantees are
going to work is if the retailer is obliged to do a one-for-one
exchange until seven years after the DOM (printed in clear on the
bulb). Similar to the Sears Craftsman guarantee. Then I could just
save them up and batch exchange them at HD. I'd never have to buy
another light bulb.

Which brings me to another point. It's no good talking about degrees
Kelvin or CRI's unless the mfg puts these on the packaging and
preferably on the bulb itself.

At Home Depot I have little trouble finding degrees K, and CRI is rated
82 unless the bulb is a really off-brand (usually a dollar store stool
specimen, a plant light, or specifically rated to have CRI other than 82.

Just why can't they do this? And why
can't they calculate the degrees Kelvin and CRI for (say) a GE Soft
White 60W incandescent bulb

Color temp. varies a bit - u7pper 2700's for the 1000 hour version,
usually a little less for others. CRI of those is 100 by definition of
CRI.

and produce exactly those numbers in a CFL?

I see enough 14 and 15 watt spirals that look the same color to me as a
60 watt incandescent. The CRI is 82 because of the spectrum of the kind
of phosphor that can economically be made and made to last in the higher
intenisty duty of CFLs.
So far, Philips and Commercial Electric are the brands I remember as
having most-incandescentlike color. GE appears to me to be a tiny hair on
the pinkish side. Sylvania appears to me to do so more, especially with
their usual 3000 K shade. It appears to me that this is to go the
opposite way of the most complaints - with erring to greenish widely
considered more objectionable.

- Don Klipstein )

On Thu, 22 May 2008 22:06:26 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

So far, Philips and Commercial Electric are the brands I remember as
having most-incandescentlike color. GE appears to me to be a tiny hair on
the pinkish side. Sylvania appears to me to do so more, especially with
their usual 3000 K shade. It appears to me that this is to go the
opposite way of the most complaints - with erring to greenish widely
considered more objectionable.

Interesting: almost all of the compact swirly flourescents in this
house are Philips brand, and they're pretty nice, not a whole lot
different from incandescents. I've got one off-brand that is
incredibly pink, almost to the point that I'm not sure it's even worth
using because the hue is so weird it almost doesn't even illuminate.
I'll probably stay with the Philips when I need to replace these
bulbs, which I anticipate won't be for a while!