I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring installed.
The water heater is 15 years old. Most people are saying I should get a
new one very quick. Is this true ? I never had a problem with the
thing...still running without a problem. I just fear a big leak could
possibly occur anyday ?

On May 14, 5:14�pm, "john"
wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring installed.
The water heater is 15 years old. � �Most people are saying I should get a
new one very quick. �Is this true ? � �I never had a problem with the
thing...still running without a problem. � �I just fear a big leak could
possibly occur anyday ?

replace tank and add a drain pan to the new heater, before you ruin
all that new laminate....

john wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring
installed. The water heater is 15 years old. Most people are saying I
should get a new one very quick. Is this true ? I never had a
problem with the thing...still running without a problem. I just fear
a big leak could possibly occur anyday ?

Check the anode. If it's down to the core in more than a few spots, get
a new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is installed,
don't you?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring
installed. The water heater is 15 years old. Most people are saying I
should get a new one very quick. Is this true ? I never had a problem
with the thing...still running without a problem. I just fear a big
leak could possibly occur anyday ?

Check the anode. If it's down to the core in more than a few spots, get a
new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is installed, don't
you?

Most people do not examine their anode. If this applies here, then you anode
has probably disappear altogether after 15 years. Without a sacrificing
anode, the water corrodes the tank faster.

Even if you don't want to replace the tank, the least you should do is put a
pan under it to catch leak, and a flood alarm on the floor so you know right
away when it does leak.

"peter" wrote in message
news:XWKWj.3688$xr1.2699@trndny04...
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring installed.
The water heater is 15 years old. Most people are saying I should get a
new one very quick. Is this true ? I never had a problem with the
thing...still running without a problem. I just fear a big leak could
possibly occur anyday ?

Check the anode. If it's down to the core in more than a few spots, get a
new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is installed, don't
you?

Most people do not examine their anode. If this applies here, then you anode
has probably disappear altogether after 15 years. Without a sacrificing anode,
the water corrodes the tank faster.

Even if you don't want to replace the tank, the least you should do is put a
pan under it to catch leak, and a flood alarm on the floor so you know right
away when it does leak.

Or the flood alarm IN the pan, so you know when a leak starts, not when it
becomes a real problem.

On May 14, 7:59�pm, "Bob F" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message

news:XWKWj.3688$xr1.2699@trndny04...





"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring installed.
The water heater is 15 years old. � �Most people are saying I should get a
new one very quick. �Is this true ? � �I never had a problem with the
thing...still running without a problem. � �I just fear a big leak could
possibly occur anyday ?

Check the anode. �If it's down to the core in more than a few spots, get a
new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is installed, don't
you?

Most people do not examine their anode. If this applies here, then you anode
has probably disappear altogether after 15 years. Without a sacrificing anode,
the water corrodes the tank faster.

Even if you don't want to replace the tank, the least you should do is put a
pan under it to catch leak, and a flood alarm on the floor so you know right
away when it does leak.

Or the flood alarm IN the pan, so you know when a leak starts, not when it
becomes a real problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at this point a new tank is really the best option, with better
insulation it will be more efficent, how much has the OP spent on the
laminate? in comparison to a new tank? trying to check the anode or
messing with the tank will increase the chance of a leak.

replace tank add drain pan and alarm..

waiting till it ruins your floor is dumb. making a claim on your
homeowners insurance will make rates soar, if they dont cancel you
completely.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

Check the anode. If it's down to the core in more than a few spots, get a
new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is installed, don't
you?

Checking the anode in a 15 year old heater may be the end of it. Just
getting it out can cause damage.

I've seen many a heater installed in a room with no drain.

I vote for a new water heater soon. They can last 20 years or they can go
in five.

I appreciate the advice, and looks like im going to settle on a new water
heater and alarm very soon. I was looking on home depot's site just now and
they have all these tank-less water heaters. Any good or no? They sure are
expensive.

btw, I dont understand all this drain pan stuff. I've never had a leak on
the thing. Not a drop. I figure, if its going to go bad, its going to go
bad very quickly.... like a volcano ? I couldnt imagine the drain pan
doing much rescuing there.

" wrote in
:

On May 14, 7:59�pm, "Bob F" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message

news:XWKWj.3688$xr1.2699@trndny04...





"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
I have an electric water heater...and just had laminated flooring
inst
alled.
The water heater is 15 years old. � �Most people are s
aying I should get a
new one very quick. �Is this true ? � �I never
had a problem with the
thing...still running without a problem. � �I just fea
r a big leak could
possibly occur anyday ?

Check the anode. �If it's down to the core in more than a few s
pots, get a
new heater.

You do have a drain in the room where the water heater is
installed, do
n't
you?

Most people do not examine their anode. If this applies here, then
you a
node
has probably disappear altogether after 15 years. Without a
sacrificing
anode,
the water corrodes the tank faster.

Even if you don't want to replace the tank, the least you should do
is p
ut a
pan under it to catch leak, and a flood alarm on the floor so you
know r
ight
away when it does leak.

Or the flood alarm IN the pan, so you know when a leak starts, not
when it

becomes a real problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at this point a new tank is really the best option, with better
insulation it will be more efficent, how much has the OP spent on the
laminate? in comparison to a new tank? trying to check the anode or
messing with the tank will increase the chance of a leak.

replace tank add drain pan and alarm..

waiting till it ruins your floor is dumb. making a claim on your
homeowners insurance will make rates soar, if they dont cancel you
completely.


....and it is an electric. The least expensive type and easiest to
install...I guess...I've never had to put one in.

In article ,
"john" wrote:

I appreciate the advice, and looks like im going to settle on a new water
heater and alarm very soon. I was looking on home depot's site just now and
they have all these tank-less water heaters. Any good or no? They sure are
expensive.

btw, I dont understand all this drain pan stuff. I've never had a leak on
the thing. Not a drop. I figure, if its going to go bad, its going to go
bad very quickly.... like a volcano ? I couldnt imagine the drain pan
doing much rescuing there.

They typically don't fail catastrophically. They'll get a little rust
through somewhere and start dripping. The drain pan with water alarm in
the pan, as others suggested, is SOP these days.

On May 15, 2:44*am, "john"
wrote:
I appreciate the advice, and looks like im going to settle on a new water
heater and alarm very soon. *I was looking on home depot's site just now and
they have all these tank-less water heaters. *Any good or no? *They sure are
expensive.

btw, I don't understand all this drain pan stuff. *I've never had a leak on
the thing. *Not a drop. * I figure, if its going to go bad, its going to go
bad very quickly.... like a volcano ? * I couldn't imagine the drain pan
doing much rescuing there.

John: Presuming this is an electric hot water tank situation?

Very lucky. A drain pan with a drain hose to lead the water away is an
excellent choice. Easy to ruin a floor, with 60 to 100 gallons of hot
water all over it for even an hour or two! Cos if it leaks it WILL
keep heating and leaking; until somebody notices (or it alarms) and
shuts it off. That may happen when you are away skiing for a couple of
weeks and have forgotten to shut off the water and the heater!

Where we live many of the suppliers, will not honour or support the
six year factory warranty that comes with many/most of the tanks. They
will only warranty for three years!

Reason is corrosive water here (possibly due to acid rain etc.?) which
blows east from the industrial and heavily populated areas of North
America. Also our ground water and lake water tends to be acidic
anyway.

In practice our hot water tanks have lasted an average of nine years.
We are on our seventh tank since 1960.

A US or Canadian made 40 US gallon size now averages, here, around
$225. We have not priced but a stainless steel tank can, we
understand, cost $1000? Haven't seen any Chinese or other ones yet;
but they are probably out there, along with Far Eastern microwave
ovens and other electronics etc. which work fine and meet Canadian
(Same as or tougher than CSA, electrical safety standards). We know
nothing about the durability of hot water tanks made offshore.

What size is yours? A relatives house with a jacuzzi type tub and two
and half baths has a 60 US gallon hot water tank.

BTW your pressure relief valve also has a drain tube to lead water
away; in case water pressure goes way high for some reason?

Instant water heaters not as popular in North America as in Europe.
Principle idea is that instead of gallons hot water sitting there
losing heat to the house (you do heat the house anyway?) it uses
'much' larger amounts of electrcity for very short periods of time
when hot water flow is required.

Ask around how satisfactory and how much plumbing changes would be
needed. Also heavier wiring to at least the main fuse panel probably
required. Buy a type much used in your area.

Personally don't buy the excessive heat loss as a problem; every month
here is a heating month and since we heat electrically anyway any heat
emanating from the well insulated hot water tank merely offsets the
house electric baseboard heating.

In fact we have gone away, after shutting off the electricity, for a
couple of weeks and returned to find the hot water tank slightly
tepid. From that I guess one could calculate the heat loss and
therefore a typical cost per hour due to it?

From Eastern Canada. Good luck.

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?
Hi,
Not much. When in doubt just repelace the heater. Some times it starts
with small leak or some times it just dumps water out(flood). My heater
is in the basement near a drain. For me, if it lasted 10 years it's time
to go.

john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

They aren't intended to hold anything. The pans have an outlet hole
where you connect it to *GASP* a drain line.

On May 15, 11:10*am, "Pete C." wrote:
john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

They aren't intended to hold anything. The pans have an outlet hole
where you connect it to *GASP* a drain line.


And to answer the question regarding tankless, unless you have gas
available, it's not an option. A tankless large enough to supply even
a small house requires gas. Electric tankless are only appropriate
to supply some modest point of use applications.

On May 15, 11:37*am, wrote:
On May 15, 11:10*am, "Pete C." wrote:

john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

They aren't intended to hold anything. The pans have an outlet hole
where you connect it to *GASP* a drain line.

And to answer the question regarding tankless, unless you have gas
available, it's not an option. *A tankless large enough to supply even
a small house requires gas. * Electric tankless are only appropriate
to supply some modest point of use applications.

electric tankless can do a house, but they need about 90 amps.

On May 15, 2:12*pm, ransley wrote:
On May 15, 11:37*am, wrote:

On May 15, 11:10*am, "Pete C." wrote:

john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

They aren't intended to hold anything. The pans have an outlet hole
where you connect it to *GASP* a drain line.

And to answer the question regarding tankless, unless you have gas
available, it's not an option. *A tankless large enough to supply even
a small house requires gas. * Electric tankless are only appropriate
to supply some modest point of use applications.

electric tankless can do a house, but they need about 90 amps.

With 120 amps at 240V you get a 65 deg rise at 3 GPM, or 47 deg rise
at 4 GPM. A shower, a sink and a dishwasher or washing machine and
you're in trouble, depending of course on the incoming water temp. I
wouldn't consider that acceptable for a typical house especially
considering it's taking up 60% of a 200 amp service. It's probably
OK for a small vacation house though.

On May 15, 2:30�pm, wrote:
On May 15, 2:12�pm, ransley wrote:





On May 15, 11:37�am, wrote:

On May 15, 11:10�am, "Pete C." wrote:

john wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

They aren't intended to hold anything. The pans have an outlet hole
where you connect it to *GASP* a drain line.

And to answer the question regarding tankless, unless you have gas
available, it's not an option. �A tankless large enough to supply even
a small house requires gas. � Electric tankless are only appropriate
to supply some modest point of use applications.

electric tankless can do a house, but they need about 90 amps.

With 120 amps at 240V you get a 65 deg rise at 3 GPM, or 47 deg rise
at 4 GPM. � A shower, a sink and a dishwasher or washing machine and
you're in trouble, depending of course on the incoming water temp. � I
wouldn't consider that acceptable for a typical house especially
considering it's taking up 60% of a 200 amp service. � �It's probably
OK for a small vacation house though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

after your done upgrading electric to 200 amps just to heat water the
cost will be so much its unreal.

heres a cost comparison of heating water, kinda out of date with the
run up of oil.

good comparison and tankless savings very small even for gas

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/waterheating.htm

"john" wrote in message
...
These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

Yes. That's why drain pans are designed to have a tube/drain pipe that runs
through the bottom or out the side of the pan to your sump or a drain, so
the water will flow from the pan to the drain before the pan overfills,
while keeping the floor dry.

On May 15, 6:49Â*pm, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

On May 15, 2:30�pm, wrote:
....
after your done upgrading electric to 200 amps just to heat water the
cost will be so much its unreal.

heres a cost comparison of heating water, kinda out of date with the
run up of oil.

good comparison and tankless savings very small even for gas

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/waterheating.htm

Â* Â* Not always. Â*Check locally. Â*I did the work myself and the only cost I
had was for the new box about ten feet of cable and three expensive cable
clamps. Â*Less than $100. Â*Note there was no charge from my local provider.
The only thing that upset me was the when I saw them cut off my expensive
clamps, the ones they required me to use when connecting to their cable, and
they replaced them with their fancy (and better) ones. Â*I'll never figure
out that one.

--
Joseph Meehan

Â*Dia 's Muire duit

to go tankless electric with decent capacity the OP would need TWO
main service panels, 200 amp for heating water, 200 amps for
everything else.

the service drop from the power company would need replaced, and the
power company might have to upgrade its transformer. if power lines
are underground, costs skyrocket.

not a normal DIY project

In article ,
"john" wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

Well, let's see, the one our plumber put in our attic at work recently
was about 2 feet in diameter and about 6 inches deep. That's about 1.57
cubic feet. Nearly 12 gallons. With a battery operated alarm, should be
plenty of warning of a failing tank.

On Sun 18 May 2008 09:10:52p, Smitty Two told us...

In article ,
"john" wrote:

These 'drain pans' only hold a maximum of like a gallon though right ?

Well, let's see, the one our plumber put in our attic at work recently
was about 2 feet in diameter and about 6 inches deep. That's about 1.57
cubic feet. Nearly 12 gallons. With a battery operated alarm, should be
plenty of warning of a failing tank.


Those 'drain pans' are usually connected to a hose or pipe that routes the
leaking water outside the house. At least the several homes we've had were
installed that way. Unless the bottom of your water heater literally drops
out of it all at once, you won't be awash in 50-80 gallons of water
everywhere.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 05(V)/18(XVIII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Trinity Sunday
Countdown till Memorial Day
1wks 2hrs 45mins
-------------------------------------------
Oxymoron: Terribly Nice.
-------------------------------------------

I still havent decided whether or not to get a new water heater. Like I
said already it lasted me 15 years and not a drop of water has spilled out
from what I could remember.

I called the manufacturer and they said its pretty rare for these tanks to
just let loose and flood your home. They usually start trickling / dropping
water out slowly first. Plus, I heard from one of the guys working on my
flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it didnt even last 6
months. It blew open and flooded his house. So thats all I need is for
them to install a new one and have the same problem.

So , im more interested in a water alarm now. Anybody recommend one thats
really good? I want one where there is a wireless detector so once water
is detected, the water to the whole house is automatically shut off.

Is there a company out there thats most popular and reliable ? Im guessing
theres millions if I search google now.

john wrote:

Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. It blew open and flooded his house.

LOL! Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure
regulator and he exploded 2 water heaters! They even had pressure
relief valves but the water pressure was just too great and the relief
valves couldn't relieve the water fast enough.

"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...
john wrote:

Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. It blew open and flooded his house.

LOL! Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure regulator
and he exploded 2 water heaters! They even had pressure relief valves but
the water pressure was just too great and the relief valves couldn't
relieve the water fast enough.

Sounds like BS to me. We have 105 psi coming into our building at work and
never cause any damage to a water heater. We have 6 of them. FWIW, I don't
have a pressure regulator at my house either.

On Sat 31 May 2008 11:31:56p, SteveB told us...


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...
john wrote:

Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. It blew open and flooded his house.

LOL! Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure
regulator and he exploded 2 water heaters! They even had pressure
relief valves but the water pressure was just too great and the relief
valves couldn't relieve the water fast enough.

Sounds like BS to me. We have 105 psi coming into our building at work
and never cause any damage to a water heater. We have 6 of them.
FWIW, I don't have a pressure regulator at my house either.

Why is it that this is the first time I have heard that a pressure
regulator is required for a public water supply?

Seems to me if pressure was indeed that high that it would have popped a
line upstream, rather than a pristine new one.

Reminds me of a guy that used to do too much acid.

Steve

Not implausable. Back in the 1950s my parents bought a house in a
neighborhood quite close to the reservoir and pumping station. We were
blowing washers right and left in every faucet, and serious knocking in
almost every pipe. My dad, an engineer, measured the pressure at 145 psi.
He installed a regulator soon after that. I think most homes in the area
ended up with regulators.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 05(V)/31(XXXI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
A big enough hammer fixes anything
-------------------------------------------

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...
john wrote:

Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. It blew open and flooded his house.

LOL! Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure
regulator and he exploded 2 water heaters! They even had pressure relief
valves but the water pressure was just too great and the relief valves
couldn't relieve the water fast enough.

Sounds like BS to me. We have 105 psi coming into our building at work and
never cause any damage to a water heater. We have 6 of them. FWIW, I
don't have a pressure regulator at my house either.

Why is it that this is the first time I have heard that a pressure regulator
is required for a public water supply?

Seems to me if pressure was indeed that high that it would have popped a
line upstream, rather than a pristine new one.

Reminds me of a guy that used to do too much acid.

Steve

On Jun 1, 7:30�am, wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 22:31:56 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...
john wrote:

�Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. �It blew open and flooded his house..

LOL! �Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. �The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure
regulator and he exploded 2 water heaters! �They even had pressure relief
valves but the water pressure was just too great and the relief valves
couldn't relieve the water fast enough.

Sounds like BS to me. We have 105 psi coming into our building at work and
never cause any damage to a water heater. �We have 6 of them. �FWIW, I
don't have a pressure regulator at my house either.

Why is it that this is the first time I have heard that a pressure regulator
is required for a public water supply?

Seems to me if pressure was indeed that high that it would have popped a
line upstream, rather than a pristine new one.

Reminds me of a guy that used to do too much acid.

Steve

They are not all that unusual in some places. Home appliances and plumbing
fixtures are designed to operate within a range of water pressure. Some places
have a lot more than the 40-60 pounds of pressure that are considered normal for
residential use. In those cases, a regulator is installed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

perhaps the regulator is also a anti siphon valve?

they are being required here along with a pressure tank, so dirty
water cant siphon back and make someone ill.....

i sold my moms old home a few years ago, and had the valve and
pressure tank added, to meet new code,

the ultimate buyer was very concerned with tht tank and what it meant,
he had never seen one before, or a condensate pump on the furnce
either......

In article ,
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

Why is it that this is the first time I have heard that a pressure regulator
is required for a public water supply?

There is a FIRST time for everyone.

Seems to me if pressure was indeed that high that it would have popped a
line upstream, rather than a pristine new one.

Our local water utility, Metropolitan Utilities District (dig the
acronymn), recently acquired our private neighborhood's district water
system.

Some months after the switch-over was made, the utility announced they
would be increasing the line pressure to improve substandard service in
some areas.

Their first-class-mailed propoganda included the advise that a pressure
regulator might be needed inside my home to cope with the increased
pressure.

Reminds me of a guy that used to do too much acid.

USED to do?
big grin
JR

wrote:

They are not all that unusual in some places. Home appliances and
plumbing fixtures are designed to operate within a range of water
pressure. Some places have a lot more than the 40-60 pounds of
pressure that are considered normal for residential use. In those
cases, a regulator is installed.

I think one way you can tell is the presence of water towers. Many municipal
systems have a relatively small pump that pumps the water UP to the tower,
24/7, then lets gravity supply the pressure to the mains. This has the
advantages of a smaller pump and stable pressures.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...
john wrote:

Plus, I heard from one of the guys
working on my flooring..who said he bought a new water heater and it
didnt even last 6 months. It blew open and flooded his house.
LOL! Reminded me of a guy who tapped into city water lines and ran it
into his new house. The dummy didn't known it needed a pressure regulator
and he exploded 2 water heaters! They even had pressure relief valves but
the water pressure was just too great and the relief valves couldn't
relieve the water fast enough.

Sounds like BS to me.

Curious, is it wet behind your ears?