Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?

Many thanks!

David in Toronto

WPB wrote:
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

I'm just another "other people" -- why would you put any credence in my
response?

The problem is at least twofold here -- first, who are these "other
people" who disagree w/ the cleaner and what are their credentials and
basis for their opinion? Second, a cleaner isn't necessarily anything
more than the name--doesn't mean they're qualified for other work or
even necessarily that his judgment on the condition is correct, either.

Then, from here I can't see your chimney to judge its condition, nor
will any other respondent. Only you or somebody you hire can actually
look at it and determine whether it does have leaking joints or other
conditions that are actually dangerous.

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?

Why not ask them what they're going to do and why would cost so much (or
little)? Obviously then one guy is simply going to regrout in
place--which may be perfectly adequate if that's all that's wrong. One
would presume (but it's only a presumption since have no information
other than a price) that the other guy is going to take the floor up and
re-lay it and perhaps even replace some/many brick. Whether that is
necessary is impossible to judge from here.

Of course, the cleaner and the one fellow on the floor may just be
trying to take advantage of a situation, too, but there's no way to tell
for sure here.

--

On Apr 17, 7:59*am, WPB wrote:
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. *Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). *My house is
older--about 65 years old. *He told me that I was taking a real risk. *
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. *Opinions?

2. *The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. *That's bad.. *
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. *Quite the
difference! *Who should I believe?

Many thanks!

David in Toronto

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed. If loose you mean you can move them then its bad.
175 , if he removes them , cleans and remortars them then ok, if he is
just pushing in a 1/4" of mortar than no. Not knowing how many and how
bad who can say. The 175 is probably a handyman doing it in a day he
figures, but he may not understand how bad it really is. 1400-4000 may
be the other extreme. You need more bids and to learn what is really
going on. Get a guy to look in the chimney and photograph the issues,
get bids.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Apr 17, 7:59 am, WPB wrote:
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?

Many thanks!

David in Toronto

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed. If loose you mean you can move them then its bad.
175 , if he removes them , cleans and remortars them then ok, if he is
just pushing in a 1/4" of mortar than no. Not knowing how many and how
bad who can say. The 175 is probably a handyman doing it in a day he
figures, but he may not understand how bad it really is. 1400-4000 may
be the other extreme. You need more bids and to learn what is really
going on. Get a guy to look in the chimney and photograph the issues,
get bids.

Unfortunately around here you need to pay at least $75 for an inspection (or
$125 for a clean and inspect) before a mason will quote any required
repairs. Kind of quells the urge to get quotes from more than a few. But
like the other poster said, a chimny sweep may not be qualified to evaluate
borderline repairs, need to quote from the company that will be doing the
repairs.

Among other things, if the mortar inside the chimny is as bad as the outside
(implied by the need to repair some loose bricks) then the liner is
advisable, cracked bricks may or may not be an issue. A cheaper cosmetic
fix may be suitable for a few years but maybe you want a fix to last
decades. If you can see smoke leaking from any part of the chimny, a liner
is required.

Your city may have something to say as well, they may have limits to how
much repointing is allowed before rebuilding parts are necessary.

"WPB" wrote in message
...
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?


My house, just a little older than yours, has an unlined brick chimney. When I
replaced the gutters, I discovered piles of ash around the chimney in the soffet
that wraps around it halfway to the top. That convinced me that I needed a
liner. I installed a used "certified" firplace insert woodstove which couples to
a stainless liner going up the old chimney. The glass door of the stove gives a
good fire view. No longer am I sucking all the heat out of the house when having
a fire. Instead, it puts lots of heat into the house, with the aid of its noisy
fan. Cleaning the chimney is easier, as a chimney brush runs straight down from
the top, and all the ash ends up in the stove when cleaning. For the money
you're talking, this could work for you also.

Thanks for the advice. As it turns out, I'm getting my gutters replaced
next week so I'll ask them to let me know if I have an ash issue just as
you did.

I keep hearing mixed things about liners. The chimney repairman that I
spoke with yesterday told me he doesn't think they're necessary and that
they'll cut down on the air flow up and out of the chimney. I hate to
spend more than $2,500 on something that may not be necessary and, in the
end, makes matters worse. Then again, you're happy with your liner.

I'm not against the idea of the liner--it's the cost that's killing me
(after just getting a new roof two weeks ago).

Thanks again!

David
_______________________________________

My house, just a little older than yours, has an unlined brick
chimney. When I replaced the gutters, I discovered piles of ash around
the chimney in the soffet that wraps around it halfway to the top.
That convinced me that I needed a liner. I installed a used
"certified" firplace insert woodstove which couples to a stainless
liner going up the old chimney. The glass door of the stove gives a
good fire view. No longer am I sucking all the heat out of the house
when having a fire. Instead, it puts lots of heat into the house, with
the aid of its noisy fan. Cleaning the chimney is easier, as a chimney
brush runs straight down from the top, and all the ash ends up in the
stove when cleaning. For the money you're talking, this could work for
you also.

I'm just another "other people" -- why would you put any credence in
my response?

Well, isn't that the point of newsgroups? Not necessarily to take to heart
every comment everyone leaves, but rather just to see what people have to
say, what their opinions are, suggestions and advice.

In any event, I realize that it's all but impossible to give good advice
without actually seeing the situation. I just thought someone might be
able to say "I had the bottom of my chimney repaired/stabilized and you can
expect to spend around $1,000. Not $175 and not $4,000."

That's all.

David

Thanks very much for your comments!

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed

I've been told that they can send a video probe down through the chimney
to see what the condition is. More $$$$$$$, of course, for that. The
other thing that bothers me about the liner is that they have to knock
out all the bricks outside my house in order to put the liner in. I'm
not thrilled with the thought of them breaking through a brick wall that
looks fine and has been in great shape since 1941.

Unfortunately around here you need to pay at least $75 for an
inspection (or $125 for a clean and inspect) before a mason will quote
any required repairs.

Fortunately in Toronto most contractors give free estimates. And
there's a good website where contractors are rated by their clients so I
can filter out those that have had terrible reviews.

Among other things, if the mortar inside the chimny is as bad as the
outside (implied by the need to repair some loose bricks) then the
liner is advisable, cracked bricks may or may not be an issue. A
cheaper cosmetic fix may be suitable for a few years but maybe you
want a fix to last decades. If you can see smoke leaking from any
part of the chimny, a liner is required.

The chimney sweep guy told me that there may be cracks in the mortar on
the inside of the chimney might allow a spark to get in and start a fire
between the first and second floor. His doom and gloom scenarios threw
me for a loop. But he was a bit of a hard sell and his company (which
does both cleaning and repairs) have been calling me every couple of
months to ask if I'm ready to get the $2,500 liner installed. The hard
sell makes me suspicious.

Thanks again!

David

I appreciate you comments--thank you.

Good advice. I'll ask both the $175 guy and the $1,400-$4,000 guy exactly
what they would do. Both these guys work for chimney repair companies and
aren't handy-men. But the $175 guy is also pushing the $2,500 liner in a
really hard-sell way and that's put me off. Yes, the bricks are definitely
loose and I can pull them out by hand (and I have). But for an area so
small my gut-feeling was that this shouldn't be a multi-thousand dollar
job. It's not like I want the chimney floor in gold leaf. Up to $4,000
for just a brick and mortar job? Ay-yi-yi.

Well, I'm a new homeowner (well, almost four years now) so there's always
something to learn.

Thanks again!

David
______________________________________________

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed. If loose you mean you can move them then its bad.
175 , if he removes them , cleans and remortars them then ok, if he is
just pushing in a 1/4" of mortar than no. Not knowing how many and how
bad who can say. The 175 is probably a handyman doing it in a day he
figures, but he may not understand how bad it really is. 1400-4000 may
be the other extreme. You need more bids and to learn what is really
going on. Get a guy to look in the chimney and photograph the issues,
get bids.

On Apr 17, 3:41*pm, WPB wrote:
Thanks very much for your comments!

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed

I've been told that they can send a video probe down through the chimney
to see what the condition is. *More $$$$$$$, of course, for that. *The
other thing that bothers me about the liner is that they have to knock
out all the bricks outside my house in order to put the liner in. *I'm
not thrilled with the thought of them breaking through a brick wall that
looks fine and has been in great shape since 1941.

Unfortunately around here you need to pay at least $75 for an
inspection (or $125 for a clean and inspect) before a mason will quote
any required repairs.

Fortunately in Toronto most contractors give free estimates. *And
there's a good website where contractors are rated by their clients so I
can filter out those that have had terrible reviews.

Among other things, if the mortar inside the chimny is as bad as the
outside (implied by the need to repair some loose bricks) then the
liner is advisable, cracked bricks may or may not be an issue. *A
cheaper cosmetic fix may be suitable for a few years but maybe you
want a fix to last decades. *If you can see smoke leaking from any
part of the chimny, a liner is required.

The chimney sweep guy told me that there may be cracks in the mortar on
the inside of the chimney might allow a spark to get in and start a fire
between the first and second floor. *His doom and gloom scenarios threw
me for a loop. *But he was a bit of a hard sell and his company (which
does both cleaning and repairs) have been calling me every couple of
months to ask if I'm ready to get the $2,500 liner installed. *The hard
sell makes me suspicious.

Thanks again!

David

Ive never heard of removing all the bricks to do it, one way is a
balloon is inflated inside the chimney and concrete is poured around
it. For 2500 a guy wants to tear apart your chimney, put in a liner
and rebuild it? Sounds to cheap and I bet it would look bad. Id say
you would be in real danger of loosing the whole chimney doing it that
way.

I appreciate you comments--thank you.

Good advice. I'll ask both the $175 guy and the $1,400-$4,000 guy exactly
what they would do. Both these guys work for chimney repair companies and
aren't handy-men. But the $175 guy is also pushing the $2,500 liner in a
really hard-sell way and that's put me off. Yes, the bricks are definitely
loose and I can pull them out by hand (and I have). But for an area so
small my gut-feeling was that this shouldn't be a multi-thousand dollar
job. It's not like I want the chimney floor in gold leaf. Up to $4,000
for just a brick and mortar job? Ay-yi-yi.

Well, I'm a new homeowner (well, almost four years now) so there's always
something to learn.

Thanks again!

David
_______________________________________________

Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed. If loose you mean you can move them then its bad.
175 , if he removes them , cleans and remortars them then ok, if he is
just pushing in a 1/4" of mortar than no. Not knowing how many and how
bad who can say. The 175 is probably a handyman doing it in a day he
figures, but he may not understand how bad it really is. 1400-4000 may
be the other extreme. You need more bids and to learn what is really
going on. Get a guy to look in the chimney and photograph the issues,
get bids.

On Apr 17, 4:41*pm, WPB wrote:
The
other thing that bothers me about the liner is that they have to knock
out all the bricks outside my house in order to put the liner in. *I'm
not thrilled with the thought of them breaking through a brick wall that
looks fine and has been in great shape since 1941.

I think you may have misunderstood. The whole point of a liner is to
repair the chimney without tearing into anything.

Dad had a small chimney fire about 3 years ago now that presumably
cracked the liner. The next fall we installed a stainless liner
ourselves. It slid down in from the top, in sections.

No bricks were harmed in the installation of the liner. In fact, he
had to add 1 row to the chimney.

"WPB" wrote in message
...
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?

Many thanks!

David in Toronto

They may al be right to some extent. Did any of them put a camera down to
look? That would tell a lot. Is there a clay liner now or just brick? If
there is no liner, I'd consider one as brick can deteriorate over time. I'd
get prices on a stainless steel as well as the poured liner where they put a
bladder down and pour a concrete mix around it. Both would work, but I have
no idea of comparative pricing.

The $175 guy may be all you need if th ere are no other cracks or problems.
My concern is, if there are lose bricks on the bottom, there may be loose
brick some other place too, or getting very close to it.

I appreciate you comments--thank you.

Good advice. I'll ask both the $175 guy and the $1,400-$4,000 guy exactly
what they would do. Both these guys work for chimney repair companies and
aren't handy-men. But the $175 guy is also pushing the $2,500 liner in a
really hard-sell way and that's put me off. Yes, the bricks are definitely
loose and I can pull them out by hand (and I have). But for an area so
small my gut-feeling was that this shouldn't be a multi-thousand dollar
job. It's not like I want the chimney floor in gold leaf. Up to $4,000
for just a brick and mortar job? Ay-yi-yi.

Well, I'm a new homeowner (well, almost four years now) so there's always
something to learn.

Thanks again!

David


Someone has to look inside the chimney to see what is going on and if
a liner is needed. If loose you mean you can move them then its bad.
175 , if he removes them , cleans and remortars them then ok, if he is
just pushing in a 1/4" of mortar than no. Not knowing how many and how
bad who can say. The 175 is probably a handyman doing it in a day he
figures, but he may not understand how bad it really is. 1400-4000 may
be the other extreme. You need more bids and to learn what is really
going on. Get a guy to look in the chimney and photograph the issues,
get bids.

"WPB" wrote

Good advice. I'll ask both the $175 guy and the $1,400-$4,000 guy exactly
what they would do. Both these guys work for chimney repair companies and
aren't handy-men. But the $175 guy is also pushing the $2,500 liner in a
really hard-sell way and that's put me off. Yes, the bricks are
definitely
loose and I can pull them out by hand (and I have). But for an area so
small my gut-feeling was that this shouldn't be a multi-thousand dollar
job. It's not like I want the chimney floor in gold leaf. Up to $4,000
for just a brick and mortar job? Ay-yi-yi.

Grin, you *may* have some chimney damage. It may be relatively minor and
fixable with a mere liner.

I needed repair to my liner. Long story made short, my house was rented for
6.5 years and they didnt abide by contract for annual professional cleanings
and inspection. I got off lucky with a bill for 1,725$ for repairs. I had
no serious damage but would have if we had not gotten back before the next
freeze-thaw winter pattern. It was also very unsafe to use until the work
was done.

In our case, we did *not* get multiple estimates. We went with a well known
quality fireplace repair local company with an outstanding reputation.
Theirs is so good, our local StateFarm place was smiling when we told them
who we were using. (Turned out we could not file a claim but that's mostly
because we are honest folks and didnt try to claim recent storm damage).

Well, I'm a new homeowner (well, almost four years now) so there's always
something to learn.

Sure is! Even for those of us who've had one longer!

On Apr 17, 1:59 pm, WPB wrote:
Hello, all: I'd be grateful if someone could give me some advice on two
points.

1. Last autumn I had a chimney cleaner come over and he told me that I
needed a steel liner in my chimney (to the tune of $2,500). My house is
older--about 65 years old. He told me that I was taking a real risk.
Other people have told me that a chimney liner is completely unnecessary
and a waste of money. Opinions?

2. The bricks in the "floor" of my chimney are all loose. That's bad.
But one guy quoted me $175 to repair them (get them all locked into place
and safe) and another guy quoted me $1,400 to $4,000. Quite the
difference! Who should I believe?

Many thanks!

David in Toronto

Firstly a chimney that's 65 years old, can still be OK.
When a chimney is designed and built, the designer has a particular
size and type of fire in mind along with the type of fuel that will be
burnt and therefore the heat that will be generated.

If subsequently the correct type and size of fire is used along with
the correct fuel all will be OK.

The problem comes with chimneys that are designed with one fuel in
mind, when subsequent owners burn unsuitable fuel, possibly wood at
the wrong temperature, possible due to the wrong sized fire using a
different sized stove.

This can lead to cold burning fires, inflammable tar deposits left in
the chimney and chimney fires.