Two questions.
If a chimney is damaged on a semi detached house, what's the protocol for
paying for repair ?

also what sort of cost can be expected, looks like the top brick (maybe two
layers) on one side has come loose

Thanks

nospam wrote:
Two questions.
If a chimney is damaged on a semi detached house, what's the protocol
for paying for repair ?

If it's a 'shared' stack, then both owners 'chip in' for the cost of the
repair and you pay the builder upon satisfactory completion of the work -
NEVER pay before the work is done to your satisfaction. If the builder
insists on payment before hand, tell him to politely go away and find
another, bona-fide one.

Obviously if one owner refuses for whatever reason, then there will be
problems as it is unlikely that the damage will be confined to one side
(although I have seen this on very rare occasions).

also what sort of cost can be expected, looks like the top brick
(maybe two layers) on one side has come loose

You won't find out what it will cost until someone climbs on the roof to see
the actual damage.

The reason: the damage that you can see from the floor is the most obvious
(a bit like the iceberg syndrome really) and it is quite possible that the
whole thing will have to be demolished and rebuilt (worse case scenario) due
to weak joints, crumbling brickwork etc.



Brian G

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:53:47 +0100, "Brian G"
wrote:

nospam wrote:
Two questions.
If a chimney is damaged on a semi detached house, what's the protocol
for paying for repair ?

If it's a 'shared' stack, then both owners 'chip in' for the cost of the
repair and you pay the builder upon satisfactory completion of the work -
NEVER pay before the work is done to your satisfaction. If the builder
insists on payment before hand, tell him to politely go away and find
another, bona-fide one.

You will have difficulty finding a bona fide builder who will do the
work without a scaffold these days (H&S looms it head) and the builder
is not going to front the scaffold cost which might be about £500


Obviously if one owner refuses for whatever reason, then there will be
problems as it is unlikely that the damage will be confined to one side
(although I have seen this on very rare occasions).

also what sort of cost can be expected, looks like the top brick
(maybe two layers) on one side has come loose

You won't find out what it will cost until someone climbs on the roof to see
the actual damage.

The reason: the damage that you can see from the floor is the most obvious
(a bit like the iceberg syndrome really) and it is quite possible that the
whole thing will have to be demolished and rebuilt (worse case scenario) due
to weak joints, crumbling brickwork etc.



Brian G

You will have difficulty finding a bona fide builder who will do the
work without a scaffold these days (H&S looms it head) and the builder
is not going to front the scaffold cost which might be about £500

I was interested to find you can get a used Transit with a cherry picker for
a few grand. Obviously this won't have the "reach" for all jobs but it
struck me as a useful investment if one were doing a major refurbishment
where the access was OK.

Anna wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:53:47 +0100, "Brian G"
wrote:

nospam wrote:
Two questions.
If a chimney is damaged on a semi detached house, what's the
protocol for paying for repair ?

If it's a 'shared' stack, then both owners 'chip in' for the cost of
the repair and you pay the builder upon satisfactory completion of
the work - NEVER pay before the work is done to your satisfaction.
If the builder insists on payment before hand, tell him to politely
go away and find another, bona-fide one.

You will have difficulty finding a bona fide builder who will do the
work without a scaffold these days (H&S looms it head) and the builder
is not going to front the scaffold cost which might be about £500


Anna,

I presume that you are replying to my post.

There will be no difficulty in getting a genuine builder or roofer to do the
job.

Under the current H&S legislation, there is nothing stopping a builder from
using the correct ladders to gain access to the chimney - and that is what
he would have to do to inspect and estimate the job (a quote rather than an
estimate is better though).

A builder can do minor works off the correct ladders - such as tile
replacement, pointing the stack flashing, fitting a chimney pot etc.

With major works such as a stack rebuild, a bona fide builder will include
access scaffold, materials, labour costs, removal of rubbish, transport to
and from the job and a small contigency allowance for unforeseen or 'guessed
at works' into his price.

He will 'front' all these costs and will not ask for any payment before he
starts the works - costs may be higher, but you get what you pay for after
all.

If a 'cowboy' builder is used, then your assumption is correct - he'll do it
off ladders irrespective of H&S rules (what's those guv'nor), demand payment
'up-front' (probably a small fortune), do unnecessary works and then add an
extra charge for it (he may well add the charge and not do the works anyway)
and then bodge the job.

As an old building maintenance foreman, if I have to get someone in to do
the work (rare), I invite several builders to look at the job and then tell
them exactly what I want done - no waffle or leaving the builder to choose
what he "thinks" is best or to "guess" at what I mean.

Those that ask for an up-front payment are told impolitely to go away and
then I usually take the middle of the road quotation (never an estimate)
that has been given to me, along with a description of the works in a
writing, from the remaining builders. All this may take time and effort,
but it pays in the long-run.

Brian G

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:20:08 +0100, "Brian G"
wrote:

I presume that you are replying to my post.

Yes

There will be no difficulty in getting a genuine builder or roofer to do the
job.

Maybe, though in my experience the good ones are well booked up and
can pick and choose what work they do

Under the current H&S legislation, there is nothing stopping a builder from
using the correct ladders to gain access to the chimney - and that is what
he would have to do to inspect and estimate the job (a quote rather than an
estimate is better though).

A builder can do minor works off the correct ladders - such as tile
replacement, pointing the stack flashing, fitting a chimney pot etc.

Sounds reasonable... well for a small chimney pot not for one of those
big victorian ones

With major works such as a stack rebuild, a bona fide builder will include
access scaffold, materials, labour costs, removal of rubbish, transport to
and from the job and a small contigency allowance for unforeseen or 'guessed
at works' into his price.

He will 'front' all these costs and will not ask for any payment before he
starts the works - costs may be higher, but you get what you pay for after
all.

But then you are asking the builder to take the risk that the client
will not pay up and he will be left owing the scaffolder a bunch of
money. Now I agree that you may well be able to find a building
company who will take this risk but the company will be charging a
premium for doing so

If I were getting the work done then I would be quite happy to pay for
scaffolding up front, or more likely to pay the scaffolder direct. The
actual stack works I would expect to pay for after the work is done

If a 'cowboy' builder is used, then your assumption is correct - he'll do it
off ladders irrespective of H&S rules (what's those guv'nor), demand payment
'up-front' (probably a small fortune), do unnecessary works and then add an
extra charge for it (he may well add the charge and not do the works anyway)
and then bodge the job.

Yes noone wants a cowboy builder but there are many small companies or
one man bands who are competent but quite reasonably do not want to
take on unnecessary risk

As an old building maintenance foreman, if I have to get someone in to do
the work (rare), I invite several builders to look at the job and then tell
them exactly what I want done - no waffle or leaving the builder to choose
what he "thinks" is best or to "guess" at what I mean.

That makes you the ideal punter. They are not all like you!

Those that ask for an up-front payment are told impolitely to go away and
then I usually take the middle of the road quotation (never an estimate)
that has been given to me, along with a description of the works in a
writing, from the remaining builders. All this may take time and effort,
but it pays in the long-run.

I agree that you are likely to get quality work and depending on what
work it is, you may get it at a reasonable price by this method.
Indeed, pointing a chimney stack is a job that could well be quoted
for.

Where the work is more complex and uncertain I think my clients get a
poor deal if they insist on a quote. I do conservation repairs and
often there is no way to know what problems will be uncovered until
the work begins so any quote has to be very high, just to cover myself
against nasty discoveries

Anna

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:31:04 +0100, "Newshound"
wrote:


You will have difficulty finding a bona fide builder who will do the
work without a scaffold these days (H&S looms it head) and the builder
is not going to front the scaffold cost which might be about £500

I was interested to find you can get a used Transit with a cherry picker for
a few grand. Obviously this won't have the "reach" for all jobs but it
struck me as a useful investment if one were doing a major refurbishment
where the access was OK.

I've several times been tempted by using a cherry picker (to hire not
to buy) probably cos I want to play with one! but every time access
has been the problem. People have a nasty tendency to put rockeries or
raised beds or have sloping land just where you want to take the
cherry picker. In the end a fixed scaffold has been the answer and has
the advantage that several people can work at once. Still looking for
the ideal cherry picker job ...

Anna

Anna wrote:
I've several times been tempted by using a cherry picker (to hire not
to buy) probably cos I want to play with one! but every time access
has been the problem. People have a nasty tendency to put rockeries or
raised beds or have sloping land just where you want to take the
cherry picker. In the end a fixed scaffold has been the answer and has
the advantage that several people can work at once. Still looking for
the ideal cherry picker job ...

then you need to cherry pick the jobs

--
djc

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:20:24 GMT, djc
wrote:

Anna wrote:
I've several times been tempted by using a cherry picker (to hire not
to buy) probably cos I want to play with one! but every time access
has been the problem. People have a nasty tendency to put rockeries or
raised beds or have sloping land just where you want to take the
cherry picker. In the end a fixed scaffold has been the answer and has
the advantage that several people can work at once. Still looking for
the ideal cherry picker job ...

then you need to cherry pick the jobs

lol

Anna