I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a
grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is
a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the
20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will
leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be
installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along
the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC
would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?


I'd buy an outdoor propane heater like bars use for their smoking patios in
the winter, and do your grilling outdoors on the BBQ. No matter what you do,
your 20 foot duct will be disgusting in no time at all, and you will
contemplate suicide.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the requirements in a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook for a
thousand people every single night.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the requirements in
a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook for a
thousand people every single night.


Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

On Feb 25, 7:09 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the requirements in
a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook for a
thousand people every single night.

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

Surely, the requirements are different for a home. For example, how
many combination microwave/exhaust hoods do you see in a restaurant
equipment catalog? And, last I checked, none of the $150 GE
microwaves at Best Buy included provisions for Halon. My restaurant
experience leads me to suspect that a month's worth of buildup in a
restaurant's ducts is more like a century's worth of buildup in a
residential kitchen. Your point, while certainly valid, is a bit of a
stretch.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 7:09 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the requirements
in
a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook for
a
thousand people every single night.

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than
at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

Surely, the requirements are different for a home. For example, how
many combination microwave/exhaust hoods do you see in a restaurant
equipment catalog? And, last I checked, none of the $150 GE
microwaves at Best Buy included provisions for Halon. My restaurant
experience leads me to suspect that a month's worth of buildup in a
restaurant's ducts is more like a century's worth of buildup in a
residential kitchen. Your point, while certainly valid, is a bit of a
stretch.


I wonder if that "stretch" might be partially negated by the OP's defective
plan to run 20' of 4" PVC as an exhaust.

On Feb 25, 7:31 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 7:09 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the requirements
in
a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook for
a
thousand people every single night.

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than
at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

Surely, the requirements are different for a home. For example, how
many combination microwave/exhaust hoods do you see in a restaurant
equipment catalog? And, last I checked, none of the $150 GE
microwaves at Best Buy included provisions for Halon. My restaurant
experience leads me to suspect that a month's worth of buildup in a
restaurant's ducts is more like a century's worth of buildup in a
residential kitchen. Your point, while certainly valid, is a bit of a
stretch.

I wonder if that "stretch" might be partially negated by the OP's defective
plan to run 20' of 4" PVC as an exhaust.

As I read it, the OP wisely dismissed the PVC idea as not suitable for
this application. It also sounds like his goal is to stay within
code. While I'm not pretending to read his mind, I suspect he's
simply asking for realistic options. What sort of ductwork is
routinely used in residential kitchens in which the hood is not on an
outside wall? An island range, for example.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 7:31 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 7:09 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:06:41 -0600, DanG wrote:
Don't let a code authority or an insurance man know what you are
doing. That run of duct will need to be welded steel with fire
suppression. No joints allowed. It should technically be a
grease hood with Halon, but they may reluctantly allow adapting a
conventional hood with a remote Ansul valve. As far as I know,
you will need to install an exterior grease fan, not a push type.

Ain't code compliance wonderful?

Those sound the requirements for a restaurant. Aren't the
requirements
in
a
household going to be less stringent? Most home owners don't cook
for
a
thousand people every single night.

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home
than
at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in
a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

Surely, the requirements are different for a home. For example, how
many combination microwave/exhaust hoods do you see in a restaurant
equipment catalog? And, last I checked, none of the $150 GE
microwaves at Best Buy included provisions for Halon. My restaurant
experience leads me to suspect that a month's worth of buildup in a
restaurant's ducts is more like a century's worth of buildup in a
residential kitchen. Your point, while certainly valid, is a bit of a
stretch.

I wonder if that "stretch" might be partially negated by the OP's
defective
plan to run 20' of 4" PVC as an exhaust.

As I read it, the OP wisely dismissed the PVC idea as not suitable for
this application. It also sounds like his goal is to stay within
code. While I'm not pretending to read his mind, I suspect he's
simply asking for realistic options. What sort of ductwork is
routinely used in residential kitchens in which the hood is not on an
outside wall? An island range, for example.


10 years ago, a kitchen place told me I had to use something like 6" metal.
Then, the guy said "Good luck cleaning it". This helped me talk my wife out
of the idea, and we kept the stove on the outside wall, with a fan to the
outside.

I think the OP should tell us the purpose of having this stove/grill in the
basement bar. Does he envision grilling lots of typical BBQ food down there?
If so, he needs to decide which is less convenient: Running outside to the
BBQ, or cleaning the ducts every so often.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom
wrote:


Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.




Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually end up
with a dangerous situation.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom
wrote:


Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.
The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.




Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually end up
with a dangerous situation.


Slow and steady usually wins the race. Thats why haybaling stuff can
really bite you because the typical scenario is get it installed
"somehow", flip on the switch and something happens and then declare
"see, those instructions don't mean anything..."

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom
wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually end up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.


How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And, this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually just a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20 foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:33:13 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished basement?
I would guess it would be the same as cleaning any duct or chimney.
A rotating snake on a reel, rotor-rooter style, and a brush.


I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And, this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the ductwork
into smaller pieces.

There's no need as long as there aren't any 270 degree turns.

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And, this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually just a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20 foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally, I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you don't),
then simply don't answer it.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And, this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally, I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you don't),
then simply don't answer it.


I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree, please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate text,
and paste it into your next response.

On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment, there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And, this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally, I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree, please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at
home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger
level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment,
there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time
to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar
hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the
OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what
he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids
get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And,
this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the
ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually
just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally, I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree,
please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate
text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?


I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

On Feb 25, 1:43 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at
home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger
level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment,
there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of time
to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand dollar
hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If the
OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially what
he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids
get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And,
this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the
ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct (actually
just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a 20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally, I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree,
please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate
text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?

I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

That's irrelevant. According to your posts, the OP is either
unwilling (a moron) or incapable (incompetent). If there's another
choice here, then please, fill us in. My take is that he's simply
looking for advice on how to do it correctly. To focus exclusively on
why he shouldn't even consider it is not helpful, IMO.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 1:43 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at
home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger
level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment,
there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of
time
to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand
dollar
hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If
the
OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could
eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's
not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he
is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially
what
he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the
only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids
get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that
you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP
shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And,
this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the
ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct
(actually
just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access
is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I
don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a
20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally,
I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the
garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you
don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you
don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree,
please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate
text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?

I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

That's irrelevant. According to your posts, the OP is either
unwilling (a moron) or incapable (incompetent). If there's another
choice here, then please, fill us in. My take is that he's simply
looking for advice on how to do it correctly. To focus exclusively on
why he shouldn't even consider it is not helpful, IMO.

You still haven't proven that I think the guy's a moron. I'm really into
understanding how several people can interpret the same words differently. I
really don't feel I can continue this discussion until you go find the words
which gave you the impression that I think the OP is a moron.

On Feb 25, 2:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 1:43 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different at
home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the danger
level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment,
there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of
time
to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand
dollar
hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup. If
the
OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could
eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's
not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that he
is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially
what
he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and the
only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well, kids
get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact that
you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP
shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place. And,
this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the
ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct
(actually
just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so access
is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I
don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with a
20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent. Personally,
I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the
garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you
don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you
don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you disagree,
please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the appropriate
text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?

I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

That's irrelevant. According to your posts, the OP is either
unwilling (a moron) or incapable (incompetent). If there's another
choice here, then please, fill us in. My take is that he's simply
looking for advice on how to do it correctly. To focus exclusively on
why he shouldn't even consider it is not helpful, IMO.

You still haven't proven that I think the guy's a moron. I'm really into
understanding how several people can interpret the same words differently. I
really don't feel I can continue this discussion until you go find the words
which gave you the impression that I think the OP is a moron.

Been there, done that. I'm done playing. Hopefully, the OP will get
an answer to his question.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:43:31 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?


I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

Irrelevent.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 2:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On Feb 25, 1:43 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 11:33 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:09:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom

wrote:

Why should the science of fire prevention be any different
at
home
than
at
a
restaurant? Maybe the ducts in a restaurant reach the
danger
level
in a
month, and at home, two years, but at that magical moment,
there's
enough
grease in the pipes to make life interesting. The length of
time
to
the
MOMENT is the variable.

The same ****ing reason you don't have a twenty thousand
dollar
hood
and exhaust over ever kitchen stove. Volume.

Time can compensate for volume, in terms of grease buildup.
If
the
OP
creates a system which can't be easily cleaned, he could
eventually
end
up
with a dangerous situation.

Why do you assume that the OP is a moron? I'm not saying he's
not -
merely that there's nothing in his question to indicate that
he
is.
Maybe he simply wants to know what sort of venting options are
available for a basement range hood (since that's essentially
what
he
asked).. It's like asking for a BB rifle for Christmas and
the
only
response you get is "You'll shoot your eye out, kid". Well,
kids
get
BB rifles and basement ranges get exhaust hoods. The fact
that
you
don't like cleaning greasy ducts doesn't mean the the OP
shouldn't
have one.

How would you go about cleaning a 20 foot long duct in a
finished
basement?
I'm envisioning greasy soap/water dripping all over the place.
And,
this
assumes the guy's got arms 10 feet long, or can disassemble the
ductwork
into smaller pieces.

And then, there are ants which are attracted to grease. Fun.

My kitchen has a through-wall fan to the outside. The duct
(actually
just
a
metal sleeve) is as thick as the wall - 8 or 10 inches, so
access
is
easy,
for cleaning purposes. I've seen what builds up in there, and I
don't
deep-fry or grill anything indoors. I can't imagine dealing with
a
20
foot
duct. Maybe the OP imagines everything will pass through the
ducts
without
sticking. In a perfect world with no dust, that might be true.

As I said, The fact that *you* don't like cleaning greasy ducts
doesn't mean the the OP shouldn't install a range vent.
Personally,
I
hate picking up dog crap in the yard or cleaning salt from the
garage
floor during the winter. But I wouldn't advise someone to not
get a
dog or build a garage simply because of that. And again, you're
presuming that the OP is either a moron or incompetent. If you
don't
know the answer to the original question (it's clear that you
don't),
then simply don't answer it.

I never stated or even implied that he was a moron. If you
disagree,
please
go to the message where you believe you saw this, copy the
appropriate
text,
and paste it into your next response.

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a
kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would
you
disagree?

I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

That's irrelevant. According to your posts, the OP is either
unwilling (a moron) or incapable (incompetent). If there's another
choice here, then please, fill us in. My take is that he's simply
looking for advice on how to do it correctly. To focus exclusively on
why he shouldn't even consider it is not helpful, IMO.

You still haven't proven that I think the guy's a moron. I'm really into
understanding how several people can interpret the same words
differently. I
really don't feel I can continue this discussion until you go find the
words
which gave you the impression that I think the OP is a moron.

Been there, done that. I'm done playing. Hopefully, the OP will get
an answer to his question.


He will, if he ever returns with more information.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:43:31 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom
wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

Since the beginning of this thread, you've characterized the OP as
someone who is either unwilling or incapable of maintaining a kitchen
exhaust. IOW, "either a moron or incompetent" (my words). Would you
disagree?


I disagree. What's the worst grease you've ever cleaned?

Irrelevent.



Really? What if Mike's a youngster who's never cleaned the inside of a
heavily used BBQ? That's easy. He'd have no clue what it's like to clean
gummy grease out of a cooking fan duct. Neither do you, obviously, although
you will disagree in your next message.

In article ,
says...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

Sorry, guys. I thought it was a simple question. What kind of
ductwork is traditional, safe, and not overkill for a residential
range hood that is 20' from the most convenient exterior wall? Note
that I'm NOT planning to use PVC. And let's assume, just for grins,
that I know how to clean it.

"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

Sorry, guys. I thought it was a simple question. What kind of
ductwork is traditional, safe, and not overkill for a residential
range hood that is 20' from the most convenient exterior wall? Note
that I'm NOT planning to use PVC. And let's assume, just for grins,
that I know how to clean it.


Call your local building inspector and find out. Please report back here
with the results of your inquiry.

And, just for grins:

1) What type of stuff will you be cooking most of the time? Cups of tea?
Steaks?

2) How will you clean this 20' length of ductwork?

In article ,
says...
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

Sorry, guys. I thought it was a simple question. What kind of
ductwork is traditional, safe, and not overkill for a residential
range hood that is 20' from the most convenient exterior wall? Note
that I'm NOT planning to use PVC. And let's assume, just for grins,
that I know how to clean it.


Call your local building inspector and find out. Please report back here
with the results of your inquiry.

And, just for grins:

1) What type of stuff will you be cooking most of the time? Cups of tea?
Steaks?

Steaks, burgers, boiling wort, and smoke from my coffee roaster. And
maybe an occasional cup of tea.

2) How will you clean this 20' length of ductwork?

With the same equipment I use to clean 25' of flue. Don't worry, I'm
not a moron.

"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?

Sorry, guys. I thought it was a simple question. What kind of
ductwork is traditional, safe, and not overkill for a residential
range hood that is 20' from the most convenient exterior wall? Note
that I'm NOT planning to use PVC. And let's assume, just for grins,
that I know how to clean it.


Call your local building inspector and find out. Please report back here
with the results of your inquiry.

And, just for grins:

1) What type of stuff will you be cooking most of the time? Cups of tea?
Steaks?

Steaks, burgers, boiling wort, and smoke from my coffee roaster. And
maybe an occasional cup of tea.

2) How will you clean this 20' length of ductwork?

With the same equipment I use to clean 25' of flue. Don't worry, I'm
not a moron.


I don't think you're a moron. I'm wondering if a fireplace chimney contains
crud that the same as the vent from a cooking fan. I've never cleaned my own
fireplace chimney, so I don't know the answer to this.

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article ,
says...

I'm finishing up my basement bar that includes a range with a grill.
These beasts tend to generate some smoke, so a vented exhaust is a
must. I've got a nice, beefy blower, but I'm concerned that the 20'
duct that will be installed above the suspended ceiling will leak
smoke and/or grease, particularly since the blower will be installed
at the hood, meaning that there will be positive pressure along the
entire length of the duct. How can I minimize this? 4" PVC would be
nice, but I suspect that it wouldn't be well suited to this
application (and probably not code). What are my options?


Sorry, guys. I thought it was a simple question. What kind of
ductwork is traditional, safe, and not overkill for a residential
range hood that is 20' from the most convenient exterior wall? Note
that I'm NOT planning to use PVC. And let's assume, just for grins,
that I know how to clean it.

I run about 20 ft from a pop-up down draft exhaust. In my experience
down drafts need more air flow than up flow exhausts. I used 8 in
spiral pipe, with a good sized FanTech axial blower. Size the pipe so
that the exhaust velocity is high, but not so high that you get
turbulent flow. Watch the Reynolds number. A pitot tube and a
Magnehelic gauge will let you get pretty close. Too large a pipe is as
bad as too small a pipe. I put a tee at the bottom of the vertical pipe
from the down draft to collect grease and provide access and a cast
aluminum access port in the side of the horizontal run. Cleaning is
messy but not difficult.

It works well.

In article ,
says...
[...] I'm wondering if a fireplace chimney contains
crud that the same as the vent from a cooking fan. I've never cleaned my own
fireplace chimney, so I don't know the answer to this.

I would probably use a different set of tools if I did it
professionally, but for a once a year thing (which is overkill for a
typical kitchen exhaust), it's just a question of cleaning the
brushes and a bit more elbow grease.