Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes, and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6 boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box and
cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:38:58 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes, and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6 boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box and
cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve


What? Hiring Martians

Damaging the wires, is not common, imo. Sounds like the owner needs an
attitude adjustment.

The use of Rotozip type tools is common and normal on residential
work with 1/2" rock. It is quite common to hang the sheet and cut
with the roto after it is hung. All wiring is typically pushed
deep in the boxes. It is NOT normal to cut wiring in the boxes.
This method does not work well on 5/8 rock with plaster rings and
so is not common on commercial work.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and
started to sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours,
since they had trouble locating my house and didn't get there
until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet
boxes, and rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the
insulation of wiring in 6 boxes. They cut the tv and phone cable
in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was
the way its done today in the State of Utah, and that they go
back and find the box and cut it out. He also said that it was
common practice for the electrician to fix the wires, and since
it was electrical, it was his responsibility to make sure it was
right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve

Nope. Wires should not be cut.


On the other hand, when they sheetrocked my neighbors house using mostly
glue, they sheetrocked over the outlets and did not come back to cut out
outlets until after the glue dried so the glue was useless. They had to
comeback and screw down all of the sheetrock. The homeowner was concerned
that the sheetrock was not on tightly because the outlets pushed it out so
even with the holes cut the sheetrock was slightly buckled out. 10 years
later the house is fine with no unusual nailpopping.

Whereas after that fiasco, I met the sheet rock hangers at my house under
construction and made sure they cut holes as they went and the sheetrock was
up tight against the walls held by glue. Notwithstanding, I have tons of
nailpops. My belief is that glue sucks for sheetrock. I think it holds the
sheetrock too tight to the studs so when studs move as house settles you get
more nail pops. My next house will only used screws for sheetrock.



"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes. They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box
and cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the
electrician to fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his
responsibility to make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box
and
cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the electrician
to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?


Unfortunately it is. I miss the old days when they would measure and cut
the holes before the drywall went up. I always make sure to push my wires
deep into the box and I try to avoid using shallow boxes as much as I can.
A few manufacturers produce temporary cover plates to put over electrical
boxes for this part of the construction. They should be using the Rotozip
tool around the EXTERIOR of the box which shouldn't cause damage to the
wires. If they are going inside the box the hole will not be the proper
size and the wires will get chewed up. Most of the time they make the hole
before all of the nails or screws are installed so the drywall board will
not be damaged and it is not firmly held against the electrical box. Sounds
like you got a low bid contractor. It is a good idea to make a mark on the
floor at the location of each switch and outlet box. Almost always one or
two get covered up and the electrician has to find them.

I don't like the drywall contractor's response. He sounds careless and has
no respect for other's work. I suppose if the electrician had to chop up
the drywall to get access to the covered boxes it would be acceptable to him
to have to come back and repair the damaged walls. The guy is right that it
will be the final responsibility of the electrician to make things right.
However excessive repairs could result in additional charges which the
drywall contractor could be held responsible for. Hold back a small
percentage of his final payment until the wiring is repaired.

The wires should have been pushed back further. If they'd been back even a
half inch, the bit wouldn't have touched them. Granted, there's no reason
to have the bit INSIDE the box, but some people locate them that way.

s


"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes. They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box
and cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the
electrician to fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his
responsibility to make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve

SteveB wrote:
(snip)

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes, and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6 boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box and
cut it out.

It's common to use a router to cut the holes around outlet boxes, HVAC
registers, lighting cans, and even door and window openings. It's not
really a matter of going back to "find" the outlets -- the locations are
noted before hanging the wallboard. You hang with just enough screws to
hold the sheet securely and then route the holes.

He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

He's correct. The drywall contractor is not licensed to do that work so
the electrician will have to fix it. The drywall contractor is, however,
responsible for the damage and should pay for at least some percentage
of the repairs. There's no excuse for the hangers having cut that many
wires. Accidentally nicking the occasional wire I could understand, but
not the situation you've described.

It's not that hard to avoid hitting the wires when routing. Very little
(1/4") of the cutting portion of the bit has to penetrate the wallboard
and it's easy to see when wires are too close to the face of the box. If
the hangers didn't check the wires then they're incompetent. If they saw
the wires were vulnerable and routed anyway then they're negligent.


Is this common practice today?

Routing? Yes. Damaging wires? Definitely not.

Steve Barker wrote:
The wires should have been pushed back further. If they'd been back even a
half inch, the bit wouldn't have touched them. Granted, there's no reason
to have the bit INSIDE the box, but some people locate them that way.


You aim for the center of the box, route across until you hit the inside
edge, hop over said edge, and then route it out. I don't know anyone who
would (or could) punch through on the outside edge of the boxes with any
speed or consistency. If you're off by 1/2" you're either in the box
(which you're saying is a bad thing) or you've created a cut that has to
be fixed by the taper.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:38:58 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box
and
cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the electrician
to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve


What? Hiring Martians

Damaging the wires, is not common, imo. Sounds like the owner needs an
attitude adjustment.

Whenever you're ready, cowboy.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
The wires should have been pushed back further. If they'd been back even
a half inch, the bit wouldn't have touched them. Granted, there's no
reason to have the bit INSIDE the box, but some people locate them that
way.

s

My friend is a union electrician currently working on the remodeling of the
Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas. He has 37 years experience. I was present
when he stripped the wires, cut them back, and stuffed them well within
EVERY box. Sorry your reading skills and comprehension skills are so poor.
They rotozipped INSIDE the boxes to cut the wires they cut.

Another inexperienced asshole heard from.

"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
(snip)

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes. They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box
and cut it out.

It's common to use a router to cut the holes around outlet boxes, HVAC
registers, lighting cans, and even door and window openings. It's not
really a matter of going back to "find" the outlets -- the locations are
noted before hanging the wallboard. You hang with just enough screws to
hold the sheet securely and then route the holes.

He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to fix the
wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to make
sure it was right before heating up the wires.

He's correct. The drywall contractor is not licensed to do that work so
the electrician will have to fix it. The drywall contractor is, however,
responsible for the damage and should pay for at least some percentage of
the repairs. There's no excuse for the hangers having cut that many wires.
Accidentally nicking the occasional wire I could understand, but not the
situation you've described.

It's not that hard to avoid hitting the wires when routing. Very little
(1/4") of the cutting portion of the bit has to penetrate the wallboard
and it's easy to see when wires are too close to the face of the box. If
the hangers didn't check the wires then they're incompetent. If they saw
the wires were vulnerable and routed anyway then they're negligent.


Is this common practice today?

Routing? Yes. Damaging wires? Definitely not.


Thank you. When you hang twelve sheets of rock and **** up eight boxes,
even I can do the math on that one.

Problem is that they won't buy the router bits that go with the RotoZip, but
just buy cheaper by the dozen four inch long drill bits. If you're using
the correct depth of router bit, it is impossible to strip the wire that is
in the BACK of the box, and only an inch or so from where it comes out of
the Romex sheath.

Steve

Steve

You failed to mention all those details in the OP. In that case then the
bit was too long and the morons running them should be held finanically
responsible for the fix.
I have no problem reading.
thanks for the additional info ASSHOLE.



s


"SteveB" wrote in message
...

My friend is a union electrician currently working on the remodeling of
the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas. He has 37 years experience. I was
present when he stripped the wires, cut them back, and stuffed them well
within EVERY box. Sorry your reading skills and comprehension skills are
so poor. They rotozipped INSIDE the boxes to cut the wires they cut.

Another inexperienced asshole heard from.

On Dec 2, 11:13 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message

Damaging the wires, is not common, imo. Sounds like the owner needs an
attitude adjustment.

Whenever you're ready, cowboy.

A bit touchy today? He was referring to the drywall company owner.

R

"S. Barker" wrote in message
news
You failed to mention all those details in the OP. In that case then the
bit was too long and the morons running them should be held finanically
responsible for the fix.
I have no problem reading.
thanks for the additional info ASSHOLE.

Sorry, asshole. Here's a DIRECT COPY from the original post from me, the
OP:

"After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes, and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6 boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes."

Now, would you like to RE read that and comment again. Particularly where
it says "in boxes" and "inside the boxes". Try to follow me here. Read it
again. IN BOXES ...... IN 6 BOXES ........... INSIDE THE BOXES. Did you
get it that time?

No?

Sigh .................

****ING asshole.

You musta scored some good **** this week.

Have a nice day.

XOXOXOXO

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
(snip)

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in
6 boxes. They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way
its done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the
box and cut it out.

It's common to use a router to cut the holes around outlet boxes, HVAC
registers, lighting cans, and even door and window openings. It's not
really a matter of going back to "find" the outlets -- the locations are
noted before hanging the wallboard. You hang with just enough screws to
hold the sheet securely and then route the holes.

He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to fix the
wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to make
sure it was right before heating up the wires.

He's correct. The drywall contractor is not licensed to do that work so
the electrician will have to fix it. The drywall contractor is, however,
responsible for the damage and should pay for at least some percentage of
the repairs. There's no excuse for the hangers having cut that many
wires. Accidentally nicking the occasional wire I could understand, but
not the situation you've described.

It's not that hard to avoid hitting the wires when routing. Very little
(1/4") of the cutting portion of the bit has to penetrate the wallboard
and it's easy to see when wires are too close to the face of the box. If
the hangers didn't check the wires then they're incompetent. If they saw
the wires were vulnerable and routed anyway then they're negligent.


Is this common practice today?

Routing? Yes. Damaging wires? Definitely not.


Thank you. When you hang twelve sheets of rock and **** up eight boxes,
even I can do the math on that one.

Problem is that they won't buy the router bits that go with the RotoZip,
but just buy cheaper by the dozen four inch long drill bits. If you're
using the correct depth of router bit, it is impossible to strip the wire
that is in the BACK of the box, and only an inch or so from where it comes
out of the Romex sheath.

Steve

And then, that's only if you're too ****ing stupid to use a tape measure and
cut out electrical outlets on a small three room addition. Which,
apparently they were. But when you consider they took seven hours to find a
street address in a town of 925 people, that says a lot. I'll see what the
owner has to say tomorrow. I hope he is reasonable.

Steve

Yes, but you never mentioned the stuff in the message i replied to. About
your friend the electrician stuffing the wires way back and all that.

RECTUM HEAD


s


"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"S. Barker" wrote in message
news
You failed to mention all those details in the OP. In that case then the
bit was too long and the morons running them should be held finanically
responsible for the fix.
I have no problem reading.
thanks for the additional info ASSHOLE.

Sorry, asshole. Here's a DIRECT COPY from the original post from me, the
OP:

"After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes,
and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6
boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes."

Now, would you like to RE read that and comment again. Particularly where
it says "in boxes" and "inside the boxes". Try to follow me here. Read
it again. IN BOXES ...... IN 6 BOXES ........... INSIDE THE BOXES. Did
you get it that time?

No?

Sigh .................

****ING asshole.

You musta scored some good **** this week.

Have a nice day.

XOXOXOXO

He'd better be. You're not.


s


"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I'll see what the
owner has to say tomorrow. I hope he is reasonable.

Steve

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
Yes, but you never mentioned the stuff in the message i replied to. About
your friend the electrician stuffing the wires way back and all that.

RECTUM HEAD

Odd no one else had the comprehension problems you had.

As to electricians stuffing back the wires into the box, that's what a GOOD
electrician does so that the rockers can have a clear shot. They strip the
Romex sheath, the ground sheathing paper, fold the wires, and push them back
in the box so the rockers have a clear shot at putting on the rock. AND, so
that their wires are protected, and later they don't have to come back and
identify every wire that has been compromised and tape it up.

If you don't know anything about the topic, next time, just don't comment.

PENIS FORESKIN

Steve

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
He'd better be. You're not.


s


"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I'll see what the
owner has to say tomorrow. I hope he is reasonable.

Steve


Sorry bottom posting, but if you look above you see the mentality of this
debate participant.

What is unreasonable about paying for a job and expecting it to be done in a
proficient manner?

Yes, you're Goddam right he'd better be reasonable. With a few phone calls,
I can have OSHA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Department of Justice,
the IRS, and State of Utah Contractors Board in on this by noon. The man
sent a pickup load of criminals to my personal residence to do work. And
they did ****ty work. I have no sympathy for whatever lands on his head,
and I will give him no mercy.

Steve

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 11:13 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message

Damaging the wires, is not common, imo. Sounds like the owner needs an
attitude adjustment.

Whenever you're ready, cowboy.

A bit touchy today? He was referring to the drywall company owner.

R

Yea, and my apologies to Oren, one of my neighbors in Las Vegas. Thank you
for pointing that out. When I'm wrong, I gladly step up for the Board of
Education.

My SIL and Daughter are connected to Homeland Security, Immigration and
Custom Enforcement and the IRS. I am waiting to see how this contractor is
going to settle this, giving him every opportunity to do the right thing.
If it is good, no harm, no foul. If he settles it reasonably, there's no
reason to make any phone calls. If he continues to be a dickhead, it's
Louisville Slugger to the knees time.

Why do people **** over others so bad when they don't even have a clue who
they're dealing with?

Steve

In article , "Steve Barker" wrote:
The wires should have been pushed back further. If they'd been back even a
half inch, the bit wouldn't have touched them. Granted, there's no reason
to have the bit INSIDE the box,

Yes, there is:

but some people locate them that way.

That's the reason. DUH!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "SteveB" wrote:

Yes, you're Goddam right he'd better be reasonable. With a few phone calls,
I can have OSHA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Department of Justice,
the IRS, and State of Utah Contractors Board in on this by noon. The man
sent a pickup load of criminals to my personal residence to do work.

And you let them.

And
they did ****ty work.

I'll bet you selected this contractor on the basis of price *alone*. Right?

I have no sympathy for whatever lands on his head,
and I will give him no mercy.

You're a real piece of work. IIRC, you're the same guy who was bragging about
stealing from Home Depot, eight months or so back.
Steve



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

SteveB wrote:
Yesterday, a team of aliens (Martian, I believe) came and started to
sheetrock my new addition. They worked 1.5 hours, since they had trouble
locating my house and didn't get there until 3.

After they left, I noticed that they had sheetrocked over outlet boxes, and
rotozipped around and in boxes, cutting the insulation of wiring in 6 boxes.
They cut the tv and phone cable in two inside the boxes.

When I called the owner, he had an attitude and said that was the way its
done today in the State of Utah, and that they go back and find the box and
cut it out. He also said that it was common practice for the electrician to
fix the wires, and since it was electrical, it was his responsibility to
make sure it was right before heating up the wires.

Is this common practice today?

Steve


yes, don't be a nervous nelly. let them do their work. if there is a
problem when they are done then nail them.

"Homer" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:

Yes, you're Goddam right he'd better be reasonable. With a few phone
calls,
I can have OSHA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Department of
Justice,
the IRS, and State of Utah Contractors Board in on this by noon. The man
sent a pickup load of criminals to my personal residence to do work. And
they did ****ty work. I have no sympathy for whatever lands on his head,
and I will give him no mercy.

You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Mormon Church there in Utah,
would ya?

Can you please explain that question or go into more detail. I do not
understand what you are asking from what you have written. I don't know if
you're asking a question about Mormonism, taking a slap at Mormons, or just
what.

Will wait for your explanation.

Steve