We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully? BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).
Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

On Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:07 GMT, Art Todesco wrote:


We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
call a defumigater.

On May 15, 7:49 am, Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", ...

Probably should as another poster said, get the house evaluated by a
professional cleaning service (the post-fire kind of folks, not the
"Stanley Steemer" drive-by guys") and get their opinion/cost.

Unless the market is really weak and the offer is otherwise enticing,
I'd guess the seller will, at best, counter-offer a little off the
price rather than bite the bullet. Depends on how badly they want the
deal of course.

What experience I have is that if it is really strong from a long-time
heavy smoker that carpets can be essentially impossible to fully
eradicate. Carpet in particular is problematical in that it can also
permeate the pad. Drapes can, at least in theory, be taken out and
professionally cleaned, but many are unable to withstand the treatment
either from the type of fabric/lining or age.

The wood shouldn't be too bad assuming it has been finished -- if it
was bare wood there's a possibility of some residual but probably not
a real bad problem. Ducts aren't too bad as they don't have the
porosity and will eventually clear w/ new filters and a freshening.

But, the cost could get pretty high so I'd not go in w/o an estimate
from a reputable firm. Truthfully, I'd think asking for a new carpet
allowance might be more palatable and certainly more certain of
success.

In article , Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves?

Yes.

Can the smell be eliminated?

No.

Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully?

Depends on how sensitive you are to the odor, and how objectionable you find
it, but generally -- it can't.

BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).

The smell will never come out.

Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?

Oddly, I didn't find that to be a problem.

Any personal experience with this?

My first house had been owned by a smoker, and sat vacant for 18 months before
I moved in. I removed all the carpets and drapes, washed and painted all the
walls, and replaced the bathroom and kitchen cabinets before I could no longer
notice the odor.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of "cleaning", such as all carpets
extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings and floors, all doors and
woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is, are we kidding ourselves? Can the
smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be accomplished successfully? BTW,
several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs). Also, how about the insides of
the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

Depends how much the smokers trashed the place. Call a company that
specializes in fire damage restoration and get their opinion.

Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of "cleaning", such as all carpets
extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings and floors, all doors and
woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is, are we kidding ourselves? Can the
smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be accomplished successfully? BTW,
several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs). Also, how about the insides of
the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.


Yes, had some experience and am very sensitive to smoke.

Every wall/ceiling surface will need to be cleaned and then
sealed with something like Kilz. That probably applies to the
logs too, though I'm no expert on their care. If you simply
paint over the previously cleaned surface the smoke resins
will bleed right thru.

Duct work will require extensive cleaning, not simply vacuuming.

It can be made liveable.
The decision will hinge on how much you want the house.

Jim

No offense intended... but that pretty much excludes you from the universe
of
people who are qualified to judge whether the level of odor remaining
would be
offensive to someone who has never smoked. You truly have NO IDEA how much
that stuff stinks.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)



I am not a smoker but find it completely offensive the way some people
bitch, whine, & complain at any little sense of tobacco in the air, like
they just ate rat poison or something!

toss carpets they arent worth the effort.... could remove and send out
to a carpet bath cleaner but they will shrink and never look right.

empty completely scrub thooughly, all walls surfaces etc. logs will be
tough.

coat EVERYTHING will kilz floors with OUTDOOR polyurethane

outdoor so moisture doesnt bring the odor back.

this will work and is what the fire estoration people do

they are expensive 10 grand or small home

works for all odors, smoke, fire, urine, dogs, cats etc etc.

In article Ywj2i.6381$CQ4.476@trndny06, "longshot" wrote:


No offense intended... but that pretty much excludes you from the universe of
people who are qualified to judge whether the level of odor remaining would be
offensive to someone who has never smoked. You truly have NO IDEA how much
that stuff stinks.

I am not a smoker but find it completely offensive the way some people
bitch, whine, & complain at any little sense of tobacco in the air, like
they just ate rat poison or something!

Some people are bothered by it more than others. Apparently, you don't mind it
too much, or you have a diminished sense of smell. I'm curious what you might
have thought you read in my post that was bitching or whining, though.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

longshot wrote:
No offense intended... but that pretty much excludes you from the universe
of
people who are qualified to judge whether the level of odor remaining
would be
offensive to someone who has never smoked. You truly have NO IDEA how much
that stuff stinks.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)



I am not a smoker but find it completely offensive the way some people
bitch, whine, & complain at any little sense of tobacco in the air, like
they just ate rat poison or something!



He was responding to the stink of a bar not of a smoker walking by. I
don't go to bars because of smokers. I find little pleasure in having
tearing red eyes and stinky clothes.

I suspect you ARE a smoker and a liar.


"longshot" wrote in message
news:Ywj2i.6381$CQ4.476@trndny06...


No offense intended... but that pretty much excludes you from the
universe of
people who are qualified to judge whether the level of odor remaining
would be
offensive to someone who has never smoked. You truly have NO IDEA how
much
that stuff stinks.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)



I am not a smoker but find it completely offensive the way some people
bitch, whine, & complain at any little sense of tobacco in the air, like
they just ate rat poison or something!

"Art" wrote in message
link.net...
I suspect you ARE a smoker and a liar.

nope. I don't like it either but it's not that big of a deal in the scope of
things wrong with the world we live in.

Some people are bothered by it more than others. Apparently, you don't
mind it
too much, or you have a diminished sense of smell. I'm curious what you
might
have thought you read in my post that was bitching or whining, though.



didn't mean to aim that at you Doug, just a general observation at people
that fly off the handle on the subject. you know the type.. want to save the
world but drive a 7 mpg SUV

On May 15, 8:49 am, Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully? BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).
Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

My experience with this topic of accumulated tobacco odor goes back a
number of years. A real estate agent was showing me a potential home.
When she opened the front door, we were hit by an almost unimaginable
tobacco stench. From the door I could see an ash tray the diameter of
a 50 gallon garbage can cover. There must have been a couple of
cartons worth of butts in it.
I told her to forget that one, and on to the next. The question to ask
yourself is, is the cleanup worth less than finding another situation,
and whether or not the clean up will be sucessful. Caveat Emptor.
Joe G

On Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:07 GMT, Art Todesco
wrote:

Any personal experience with this?

One of my in-laws bought a home that had a heavy smoker. It came with
all appliances. The smoke smell was so heavy, when she opened the
refrigerator she could see traces of nicotine in the frost of the
freezer. I can only imagine the coils, etc. were caked with nicotine.


--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

In article .com, dpb says...

On May 15, 7:49 am, Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", ...

Probably should as another poster said, get the house evaluated by a
professional cleaning service (the post-fire kind of folks, not the
"Stanley Steemer" drive-by guys") and get their opinion/cost.

Unless the market is really weak and the offer is otherwise enticing,
I'd guess the seller will, at best, counter-offer a little off the
price rather than bite the bullet. Depends on how badly they want the
deal of course.

What experience I have is that if it is really strong from a long-time
heavy smoker that carpets can be essentially impossible to fully
eradicate. Carpet in particular is problematical in that it can also
permeate the pad. Drapes can, at least in theory, be taken out and
professionally cleaned, but many are unable to withstand the treatment
either from the type of fabric/lining or age.

The wood shouldn't be too bad assuming it has been finished -- if it
was bare wood there's a possibility of some residual but probably not
a real bad problem. Ducts aren't too bad as they don't have the
porosity and will eventually clear w/ new filters and a freshening.

But, the cost could get pretty high so I'd not go in w/o an estimate
from a reputable firm. Truthfully, I'd think asking for a new carpet
allowance might be more palatable and certainly more certain of
success.



Yes - new carpets and draperies are necessary (although are draperies not
usually understood as part of the price the way carpets are?). You should be
able to get an allowance for the carpets. Cleaning won't do; you'll want your
own eventually anyway, right? Who wants to live too long with some other
people's decor. This give you a reason to have the new carpeting allowed for.

Cleaning of the heating ductwork, too, would be good and there should be an
estimate and an allowance made. I know that's done around here for forced air
heating systems.

Unless this place is totally smoked up (is there a film on the windows?) and/or
you're very sensitive, these measures plus wiping down the walls should do the
trick. I think some of the responses here are a little over the edge.

As with many things, it depends on the particulars. How bad it is, how
sensitive you are about this (not saying that's a bad thing if you are!), how
much you like the house and how it suits your needs otherwise, what the market
is, how cooperative the sellers might be to turn this to your advantage.

Cheers,
Banty

Art Todesco wrote:
We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully? BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).
Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

Get an estimate from your local fire recovery people. Find out what
they suggest you are going to need to do and what they cost is going to be.
Then add in an amount for the possibility it may not work to your
satisfaction and for your accepting the extra work and risk and deduct that
from what you might have paid without the problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

In article kVk2i.18745$5Z6.10212@trndny05, "longshot" wrote:



Some people are bothered by it more than others. Apparently, you don't
mind it
too much, or you have a diminished sense of smell. I'm curious what you
might
have thought you read in my post that was bitching or whining, though.



didn't mean to aim that at you Doug, just a general observation at people
that fly off the handle on the subject. you know the type.. want to save the
world but drive a 7 mpg SUV


I didn't see anyone "flying off the handle" in this thread. Not before your
post, anyway.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:07 GMT, Art Todesco
wrote:

We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully? BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).
Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

I bought a 20yr old house from the only owners.

Wall to wall wallpaper..

They *did* get new carpet installed from lowes..

the smoke left outlines around the paintings, clocks, candles, etc.

I am slowly removing the wallpaper and painting..

2 coats of Oil base kilz (white pigment) - then 2 coats of behr flat
paint.. good as new no smoke smell..

I did get the vents cleaned and the carpet fumegated..

Helped ALOT!!!

Thanks to all who answered. I think the
best thing is to not consider that
house. We did find another house, but
this one has a musty oder apparently
coming from the basement. I have
noticed this in many houses in this area
which is Franklin, NC. Now I have to
look at what can be done with this
new problem. This house had land with
was perfect.

Joe wrote:
On Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:07 GMT, Art Todesco
wrote:

We are looking for a new house. In the
last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost
perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought
that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of
"cleaning", such as all carpets extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings
and floors, all doors and woodwork. And
all fabric cleaned. My question is,
are we kidding ourselves? Can the smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be
accomplished successfully? BTW, several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs).
Also, how about the insides of the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

I bought a 20yr old house from the only owners.

Wall to wall wallpaper..

They *did* get new carpet installed from lowes..

the smoke left outlines around the paintings, clocks, candles, etc.

I am slowly removing the wallpaper and painting..

2 coats of Oil base kilz (white pigment) - then 2 coats of behr flat
paint.. good as new no smoke smell..

I did get the vents cleaned and the carpet fumegated..

Helped ALOT!!!

"Art Todesco" wrote in message
et...
We are looking for a new house. In the last few days we found a real nice
log home that fits our needs almost perfectly with the one exception of a
fairly strong smoking smell. I thought that if we make an offer, it would
be accompanied by a complete list of "cleaning", such as all carpets
extraction
or steam cleaned, all walls, ceilings and floors, all doors and woodwork.
And
all fabric cleaned. My question is, are we kidding ourselves? Can the
smell be
eliminated? Any ideas if this can be accomplished successfully? BTW,
several
walls are wood (the inside of the logs). Also, how about the insides of
the
HVAC ducts and system?
Any personal experience with this?
Thanks.

Yes, you can get rid of the "fairly strong smoking smell" -- hotels and
convention centers do it regularly and effectively. If it were me, I'd use
the odor removal problem as a method of negotiating down the price, rather
than getting the current owner to do the cleaning work, for a lot of
reasons -- among them, the current owner is not goping to be sensitive to
the problem, will look for the least expensive way out, etc., plus since the
odor strength is subjective, I don't know how you'd write a contract that
stipulates the odor has to be removed before closing. The person that has
to be satisfied with the results should be the one paying the bill.

I'd try for either a price reduction, or a rebate ($2K? $5K?) to you to have
the work done. I would also spend some time with the manager of a 4 or 5
star hotel and get the specifics on what they do to remove smoke odors from
their rooms (either meeeting rooms or no-smoking rooms that have been used
by smokers.) As others have suggested, also contact a cleaning company such
as Servpro that handles clean-up after fires. You may want to hire them to
do the smoke smell removal. Regards --

I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.

????


On Wed, 16 May 2007 03:15:21 GMT, Art Todesco wrote:

Thanks to all who answered. I think the
best thing is to not consider that
house. We did find another house, but
this one has a musty oder apparently
coming from the basement. I have
noticed this in many houses in this area
which is Franklin, NC. Now I have to
look at what can be done with this
new problem. This house had land with
was perfect.


rj

"RJ" wrote

I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

You see that all the time on those real estate shows like
Sell This House. Oh! I don't like this shade of green paint!
Amazes me every time. Hello, is the house laid out the way you
like, is it where you want to live, blah blah, those are things you
look for. A paint color? Give me a break.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Stupid people everywhere.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

Exactly. Man, I never would have bought my house, rooms
were painted pumpking orange and bright yellow. Not my
thing. One room had canvas walls with a dark brown animal
print. But the in ground pool was new and everything else was
in working order. Couple of cans of paint and the crazy colors
were gone. Like magic.

nancy

On May 16, 12:20?pm, "RJ" wrote:
I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.


90% want move in condition, and are usually buying the absolute most
home they can afford. its a now generation, thats why credit cards
tend to get out of control

having spent every last dime they dont have money for even minor
repairs and demand showroom perfect.

I sold a home less than 3 years ago it was a nightmare, home was 60
years old buyer inspector wanted it to meet todays code in all
respects.....

In article ,
"RJ" wrote:

I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.

????



You don't have to understand "this modern approach" to capitalize on it.
The house flippers are doing it every day, and making huge amounts of
money. Buy an imperfect house, add some fresh paint, new bath fixtures,
and a couple of pretty flowers outside. Sell it to the new breed of
buyer, and net 100k or more in just a few weeks. It isn't just a TV
show, it's really happening, everywhere.

wrote:


90% want move in condition, and are usually buying the absolute most
home they can afford. its a now generation, thats why credit cards
tend to get out of control

having spent every last dime they dont have money for even minor
repairs and demand showroom perfect.

I sold a home less than 3 years ago it was a nightmare, home was 60
years old buyer inspector wanted it to meet todays code in all
respects.....



Unfortunately that is a common and serious problem. Buildings are
supposed to be inspected according to the codes that were in effect
during construction or major renovation.

RJ wrote:
I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.

????


Sure but a house that was trashed by smokers might be a lot more
expensive to remediate than the usual paint job/simple maintenance type
projects.

On Wed, 16 May 2007 09:20:28 -0700, "RJ"
wrote:


I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.


I don't think it's the buyers that started
the change. I think its that the sellers
started making the mistake of taking the
realtor's advice too seriously. And the
realtor doesn't care if it costs you $3,000
raise the price of the house by $1,000 and
sell it to the third buyer instead of the 9th.

And as long as a significant fraction of
home-sellers are willing to cater to the
slightest dumb-ass whim of the "average"
buyer, that's what said buyer is going to
ask for.

Goedjn wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2007 09:20:28 -0700, "RJ"
wrote:

I don't understand this modern approach to homebuying.
Buyers demand "showroom perfect" in the house,
down to the room colors of their choice.

I've seen folks turn down a $150,000 purchase
because it needed a $200 water heater.

Whatever happened to buying a home "as is"
Assuming it's the right neighborhood, the right price,
and there's no major structural problems.....

We always bought a home knowing we'd be painting,
landscaping, and doing some maintenance.


I don't think it's the buyers that started
the change. I think its that the sellers
started making the mistake of taking the
realtor's advice too seriously. And the
realtor doesn't care if it costs you $3,000
raise the price of the house by $1,000 and
sell it to the third buyer instead of the 9th.

And as long as a significant fraction of
home-sellers are willing to cater to the
slightest dumb-ass whim of the "average"
buyer, that's what said buyer is going to
ask for.
As the OP, I don't expect the seller to
actually fix most things,
however, if I find obvious defects in
the house, I should be
able to reduce the price by the amount
needed to fix the
problem.