I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG

Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Joseph" wrote in message
ups.com...
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my
car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to
plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the
low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me
which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household
voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I
suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one
for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC
measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG

Joseph wrote:
I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

Ground is green. From an old article title, "black is hot and white is
not (and vice is often versa)". I never found rules for other colors,
but in my experience I've found a lot of switched hot wires used red.

--
Boycott KFC
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...10/nkfc110.xml

On May 13, 12:23�pm, Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. *There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. *Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). *Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. *I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. *Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? *What the other one for? *I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. *I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_20...connector2.JPG


I could do that BUT you have no idea who will pay for the power, what
breaker somewhere it on, it may not have power at all. you might cause
troubles for others, its likely a 220V line.

What tools will you be sing in the garage?

On 13 May 2007 09:23:09 -0700, Joseph wrote:

I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG

Do you have 3 phase power?
er.....sorry
Do you know where your panel is?
Do you know what a panel is?

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 13, 12:23?pm, Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_20...connector2.JPG


I could do that BUT you have no idea who will pay for the power, what
breaker somewhere it on, it may not have power at all. you might cause
troubles for others, its likely a 220V line.

What tools will you be sing in the garage?

If you are renting the garage space, do NOT mess with the wiring without
talking to landlord. The already-mentioned safety issues aside, landlords
tend to get real ****ed off when stuff like that happens. Like considering
it a lease-breaker, and putting your ass and/or car on the street, if the
garage is part of an apartment lease. If you have a nice landlord, and ask
real nice, they may have an actual electrician run an outlet as a courtesy
to you and any other tenants, but just as likely their insurance agent will
be happier if they don't, so some fool doesn't leave a space heater running
while he tracks down that fuel line leak in January.

aem sends...

On May 13, 9:52 am, "DanG" wrote:
Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

HI DanG,
I will probably back out from this plan seeing that it might be
dangerous. By the way, you mentioned 3-phase with high leg. What did
you mean by this? I am pretty certain these are used for the
fluorescent lamps, because the other wires and panels are hooked up to
fluorescent ones. I don't know why this one is just lying around,
unhooked, maybe its for future expansions? I had wanted to hook it
up so I can use a vacuum cleaner and such. Maybe I opt to go with a
cordless vacuum cleaner and scrap this plan since its obviously too
involved.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 14:15:09 -0400, Terry
wrote:

On 13 May 2007 09:23:09 -0700, Joseph wrote:

I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG

Do you have 3 phase power?
er.....sorry
Do you know where your panel is?
Do you know what a panel is?

I think the blue wire is for patriotism.

There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications




"Joseph" wrote in message
ups.com...


On May 13, 9:52 am, "DanG" wrote:
Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

HI DanG,
I will probably back out from this plan seeing that it might be
dangerous. By the way, you mentioned 3-phase with high leg. What did
you mean by this? I am pretty certain these are used for the
fluorescent lamps, because the other wires and panels are hooked up to
fluorescent ones. I don't know why this one is just lying around,
unhooked, maybe its for future expansions? I had wanted to hook it
up so I can use a vacuum cleaner and such. Maybe I opt to go with a
cordless vacuum cleaner and scrap this plan since its obviously too
involved.

It's an interesting project. I'd be thinking to trace the wires
back, and see where they go. That will help give you information
on how to wire the outlet end.

It sounds, though, that you should hire an electrician.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Joseph" wrote in message
ups.com...
: I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where
my car
: is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need
to plug
: in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the
low
: ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1
just
: barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me
which of
: these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household
voltage
: of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will
be
: careful, where gloves etc. Thx
:
: I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I
suspect
: Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one
for? I
: have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC
measurements. I
: should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?
:
: http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
: http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG
:

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications




"Joseph" wrote in message
ups.com...


On May 13, 9:52 am, "DanG" wrote:
Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

HI DanG,
I will probably back out from this plan seeing that it might be
dangerous. By the way, you mentioned 3-phase with high leg. What did
you mean by this? I am pretty certain these are used for the
fluorescent lamps, because the other wires and panels are hooked up to
fluorescent ones. I don't know why this one is just lying around,
unhooked, maybe its for future expansions? I had wanted to hook it
up so I can use a vacuum cleaner and such. Maybe I opt to go with a
cordless vacuum cleaner and scrap this plan since its obviously too
involved.


May be 480 Wye using 277 volt fluorescent fixtures...

The OP doesn't really make it clear if this is a house, apt, or commercial
building, so anything is possible



"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third
leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications




"Joseph" wrote in message
ups.com...


On May 13, 9:52 am, "DanG" wrote:
Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

HI DanG,
I will probably back out from this plan seeing that it might be
dangerous. By the way, you mentioned 3-phase with high leg. What did
you mean by this? I am pretty certain these are used for the
fluorescent lamps, because the other wires and panels are hooked up to
fluorescent ones. I don't know why this one is just lying around,
unhooked, maybe its for future expansions? I had wanted to hook it
up so I can use a vacuum cleaner and such. Maybe I opt to go with a
cordless vacuum cleaner and scrap this plan since its obviously too
involved.


May be 480 Wye using 277 volt fluorescent fixtures...

On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:52:51 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications


Actually, single phase applications are the only reason a high leg
exists.

If it were all 3 phase loads there would be no high leg.

I know it is more than the OP wants to know, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_leg_delta

On Sun, 13 May 2007 20:17:18 -0400, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:52:51 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications


Actually, single phase applications are the only reason a high leg
exists.

If it were all 3 phase loads there would be no high leg.

I know it is more than the OP wants to know, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_leg_delta

I should have said that the 190V leg is not used in the single phase
applications, but the need for single phase applications is the only
reason the high leg is a factor.

That sounds a little more like I know what I am talking about, but not
much.

Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx


I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG



Odd photos.

All appear to come into the box in an armored cable. Looks sort of BX ish,
but the BX I know is black, white and bare copper ground, if there is a
ground.
Old code sometimes allowed BX armored sheath as a ground.
It wasnt a good ground as the amored sheah could corrode, break, and
then no ground.

In photos of the box are insilated wires in black, red, blue, white
with a red tracer thread, and a bare copper.

The bare copper is grounded to the box with a screw.

In US household wiring, conventional wisdom would suspect black and
red being separate 120 hot legs; blue is also used in conduit as a third
color for a hot leg. Its also used *inside* a fluorescent fixture or
one of
the high frequency legs.

A plain white *should be* a neutral.
What a white with a red tracer thread is I have no idea.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:43:02 -0500, clifto wrote:

Joseph wrote:
I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

Ground is green. From an old article title, "black is hot and white is
not (and vice is often versa)". I never found rules for other colors,
but in my experience I've found a lot of switched hot wires used red.

When I put up ceiling fans, I found they had blue wires. There were
hot wires for the light kit, allowing wiring to separate switches.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:43:03 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 13 May 2007 14:15:09 -0400, Terry
wrote:

On 13 May 2007 09:23:09 -0700, Joseph wrote:

I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG

Do you have 3 phase power?
er.....sorry
Do you know where your panel is?
Do you know what a panel is?

I think the blue wire is for patriotism.

It's a cyronic line used by the secret service to freeze potential
threats to the president :-)

On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:44:51 -0700, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx


I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG



Odd photos.

All appear to come into the box in an armored cable. Looks sort of BX ish,
but the BX I know is black, white and bare copper ground, if there is a
ground.
Old code sometimes allowed BX armored sheath as a ground.
It wasnt a good ground as the amored sheah could corrode, break, and
then no ground.

In photos of the box are insilated wires in black, red, blue, white
with a red tracer thread, and a bare copper.

The bare copper is grounded to the box with a screw.

In US household wiring, conventional wisdom would suspect black and
red being separate 120 hot legs; blue is also used in conduit as a third
color for a hot leg. Its also used *inside* a fluorescent fixture or
one of
the high frequency legs.

A plain white *should be* a neutral.
What a white with a red tracer thread is I have no idea.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

I thought they did something like that when they used the same cable
for 2 circuits with their own neutral wires. That would be needed if
they used GFCI breakers.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:31:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:44:51 -0700, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx


I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG



Odd photos.

All appear to come into the box in an armored cable. Looks sort of BX ish,
but the BX I know is black, white and bare copper ground, if there is a
ground.
Old code sometimes allowed BX armored sheath as a ground.
It wasnt a good ground as the amored sheah could corrode, break, and
then no ground.

In photos of the box are insilated wires in black, red, blue, white
with a red tracer thread, and a bare copper.

The bare copper is grounded to the box with a screw.

In US household wiring, conventional wisdom would suspect black and
red being separate 120 hot legs; blue is also used in conduit as a third
color for a hot leg. Its also used *inside* a fluorescent fixture or
one of
the high frequency legs.

A plain white *should be* a neutral.
What a white with a red tracer thread is I have no idea.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

I thought they did something like that when they used the same cable
for 2 circuits with their own neutral wires. That would be needed if
they used GFCI breakers.

The only reason to mark the white would be if it had two whites.

It could be, like you say, two single phase circuits.

It looks like 3 phase to me, but who knows without checking?

There are no missing knockouts in the box. It looks like a circuit
that has never been used. It could be that or they removed something
and put a box on the end.

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:31:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:44:51 -0700, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

Joseph wrote:
I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx

I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG


Odd photos.

All appear to come into the box in an armored cable. Looks sort of BX ish,
but the BX I know is black, white and bare copper ground, if there is a
ground.
Old code sometimes allowed BX armored sheath as a ground.
It wasnt a good ground as the amored sheah could corrode, break, and
then no ground.

In photos of the box are insilated wires in black, red, blue, white
with a red tracer thread, and a bare copper.

The bare copper is grounded to the box with a screw.

In US household wiring, conventional wisdom would suspect black and
red being separate 120 hot legs; blue is also used in conduit as a third
color for a hot leg. Its also used *inside* a fluorescent fixture or
one of
the high frequency legs.

A plain white *should be* a neutral.
What a white with a red tracer thread is I have no idea.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.
I thought they did something like that when they used the same cable
for 2 circuits with their own neutral wires. That would be needed if
they used GFCI breakers.

The only reason to mark the white would be if it had two whites.

It could be, like you say, two single phase circuits.

It looks like 3 phase to me, but who knows without checking?

There are no missing knockouts in the box. It looks like a circuit
that has never been used. It could be that or they removed something
and put a box on the end.

There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

On Mon, 14 May 2007 19:27:15 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:


There are no missing knockouts in the box. It looks like a circuit
that has never been used. It could be that or they removed something
and put a box on the end.

There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.

That means when the OP hooks up the vacuum, it will really suck.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:46:29 -0400, mm
wrote:

There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.

That means when the OP hooks up the vacuum, it will really suck.

That is funny.

In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 19:27:15 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:


There are no missing knockouts in the box. It looks like a circuit
that has never been used. It could be that or they removed something
and put a box on the end.

There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.

That means when the OP hooks up the vacuum, it will really suck.

Briefly.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

jJim McLaughlin wrote:

Joseph wrote:

I need to tap some electrical in an underground garage where my car
is. There are no wall outlet whatsoever and sometimes I need to plug
in some hand tools. Anyway, I found this box hanging off the low
ceiling, I opened and saw thew 5 wires, 4 wiht shield and 1 just
barecopper(ground). Can someone in the know please tell me which of
these wires I can splice into to get teh equivalent household voltage
of 120V, I plan to add a wall socket to it. I promise I will be
careful, where gloves etc. Thx



I forgot to mention, here are the pictures of the wires, I suspect
Red=120V and black=Ground, white=Neutral? What the other one for? I
have auto-ranging digital multimeter that can do AC measurements. I
should just measure across Red & Black to see what I get?

http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector1.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corvette_2050/connector2.JPG



Odd photos.

All appear to come into the box in an armored cable. Looks sort of BX ish,
but the BX I know is black, white and bare copper ground, if there is a
ground.
Old code sometimes allowed BX armored sheath as a ground.
It wasnt a good ground as the amored sheah could corrode, break, and
then no ground.

In photos of the box are insilated wires in black, red, blue, white
with a red tracer thread, and a bare copper.

The bare copper is grounded to the box with a screw.

In US household wiring, conventional wisdom would suspect black and
red being separate 120 hot legs; blue is also used in conduit as a third
color for a hot leg. Its also used *inside* a fluorescent fixture or
one of
the high frequency legs.

A plain white *should be* a neutral.
What a white with a red tracer thread is I have no idea.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Looking closer at those photos, the white has both red and blue tracer
threads
on the insulation jacket. Very wierd.

This is in a 30 year old apartment building. I rent a unit on the 5th
floor of a 7 story building. :-)
In any case I thought it was a simple thing, but I guess its not and I
am better off not touching it.

On May 13, 5:13 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
The OP doesn't really make it clear if this is a house, apt, or commercial
building, so anything is possible

"Rick" wrote in message

ink.net...





"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third
leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications

"Joseph" wrote in message
roups.com...

On May 13, 9:52 am, "DanG" wrote:
Joseph,

As others have said, it sounds like your knowledge level might be
inadequate for the task at hand.

Your meter will probably show you 220V between red and black.
Each of them is probably 110V. Black is NOT ground in utility
wiring - it is in automotive DC (perhaps explains your confusion).
White should be neutral, red should be 110 and black should be
110. The bare copper is ground. This sounds like commercial
wiring - NOT Romex. BE CAREFUL, it may be 3 phase with a high leg
for lighting, you will destroy whatever you hook to it. Tapping
into an existing circuit without having any idea what it is
feeding, where it is coming from, and how it is being used is NOT
smart. If you are dealing with a receptacle or lighting circuit
that is not critical or serving a designated circuit, the idea
will probably work. You really need to know the FROM and the TO,
before you proceed.

HI DanG,
I will probably back out from this plan seeing that it might be
dangerous. By the way, you mentioned 3-phase with high leg. What did
you mean by this? I am pretty certain these are used for the
fluorescent lamps, because the other wires and panels are hooked up to
fluorescent ones. I don't know why this one is just lying around,
unhooked, maybe its for future expansions? I had wanted to hook it
up so I can use a vacuum cleaner and such. Maybe I opt to go with a
cordless vacuum cleaner and scrap this plan since its obviously too
involved.

May be 480 Wye using 277 volt fluorescent fixtures...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you saying if I put a voltmeter across each of these 3 legs I will
measure 120volts? By the way which one is Neutral and which is 120V
(red?) ?? I think for single phase use you only need one of the 120V
lead right?

On May 13, 4:52 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications

"Joseph" wrote in message

ups.com...

On 14 May 2007 21:41:36 -0700, Joseph wrote:

Are you saying if I put a voltmeter across each of these 3 legs I will
measure 120volts? By the way which one is Neutral and which is 120V
(red?) ?? I think for single phase use you only need one of the 120V
lead right?

On May 13, 4:52 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
There is a particular type of three phase service called a "Delta", where
two of the three legs will give you 120 volt to neutral, but the third leg,
called the wild leg, high leg, delta leg, or red leg, gives a much higher
voltage to neutral and is not used in single phase applications

"Joseph" wrote in message

ups.com...

In article .com, Joseph wrote:
This is in a 30 year old apartment building. I rent a unit on the 5th
floor of a 7 story building. :-)

And that's the end of the story -- it's not your building.

First, your lease almost certainly prohibits you from making modifications
without the landlord's explicit consent.

Second, in most jurisdictions it is against the law for anyone but a licensed
electrician to modify premises wiring in an apartment building.

Third, I mean no offense, but it's clear that you don't know what you're
doing. If you screw up the wiring in your own single-family house, you're
jeopardizing only your own safety and that of your family. Screw up the wiring
on a 7-story apartment building, and you're placing dozens or hundreds of
lives at risk. Leave it alone.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Obtaining type MC cable in the 480/277 volt color scheme requires a
special order of a minimum quantity made well in advance in most places.
It is not a stock item in many supply houses. What many larger supply
house chains do stock at their distribution centers is the white, black,
red blue, green type MC with a colored tracer on the white. The code
does not require a continuous color for marking different voltages. It
only requires that in the case of different voltage systems each one
must be marked and the marking scheme must be displayed at the panels.
As that requirement is of relatively recent adoption there are millions
of unmarked high voltage extensions in use that use the stock MC color
scheme.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 19:27:15 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:

There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.


Typically red/black/blue/white is used for 3 phase wye 208v
3 Phase center tapped delta 240v requires that the "high leg" be
orange and they usually would not bring the neutral into a box with
the high leg present.
480v 3p wye is usually going to be using brown orange and yellow and
when they do split off a 277v L/N circuit they will use violet
(hot)and grey(neutral).
That is the normal convention but the only things specified in the NEC
is the white or grey for neutral, green, green/yellow stripe or bare
for ground and orange for the high leg of a center tapped delta. Any
other color is legal for a hot. You can see why they came up with the
convention and any real electrician will follow it. Anything else
signs your work "hack"

Doug
I will admit to having done that 480/277 208/120 volt mix up on purpose
on one job. The Terrazzo tile guys had a boom box that was so large and
so heavy that it needed it's own cart to bring it on the job. They were
asked several times to turn down the radio and they would not. So over
night a double pole, double throw switch was set up to the one outlet
they were using and their radio emitted a very brief loud shriek. The
the switch was thrown back to the 120 volt position immediately and it's
interlock cover was locked. They complained very loudly but they had
been warned repeatedly that the building outlets had not been excepted
by the GC yet and were not available for use. They just hadn't gone to
the trouble of stretching out an extension cord. Scratch one huge boom box.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 19:27:15 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:

There are no missing knockouts in the box. It looks like a circuit
that has never been used. It could be that or they removed something
and put a box on the end.
There are several reasons to mark a white wire in a building wiring
system. One of those reasons is that the building has two or more
different voltage systems. Since you've already said that this cable
comes from a lighting panel there is a definite possibility that the
cable carries 480/277 volt power.
That means when the OP hooks up the vacuum, it will really suck.

Briefly.

We were on a job with an annoying boom box once. The superintendent
kicked it down an elevator shaft.


On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:50:59 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:

Doug
I will admit to having done that 480/277 208/120 volt mix up on purpose
on one job. The Terrazzo tile guys had a boom box that was so large and
so heavy that it needed it's own cart to bring it on the job. They were
asked several times to turn down the radio and they would not. So over
night a double pole, double throw switch was set up to the one outlet
they were using and their radio emitted a very brief loud shriek. The
the switch was thrown back to the 120 volt position immediately and it's
interlock cover was locked. They complained very loudly but they had
been warned repeatedly that the building outlets had not been excepted
by the GC yet and were not available for use. They just hadn't gone to
the trouble of stretching out an extension cord. Scratch one huge boom box.

we had this one guy at a car dealership where I worked that would regularly
smoke his lunch and then put on the wildest assed "music" you can imagine
every afternoon. His boom box cord was made up almost entirely of red butt
connectors. Finally one day, I snipped it flush with the box.

--
Steve Barker




"Terry" wrote in message
...
We were on a job with an annoying boom box once. The superintendent
kicked it down an elevator shaft.


On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:50:59 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote: