wrote:

On Apr 18, 10:30 am, Bud-- wrote:


The only listed splice devices for aluminum branch circuits I know of
are Alumiconn, as in gfretwell's post, and purple Ideal 65 wirenuts.
Alumiconn is new and looks real interesitng. In the research done for
the CPSC, the Ideal 65 didn't work better than other wirenuts with
antioxide paste, and had flamability issues. I think that is in
alreduce.htm. Scotch doesn't make wirenuts listed for aluminum. But
Scotch is recommended by alreduce.htm based on the extensive testing
done for the CPSC.


OK, so currently my Al mitigation plan is:
- Use Scotchlok spring nuts according to the instructions in
alreduce.htm (scrape, no-alox, pre-twist) wherever solid aluminum
mates to solid copper

Or aluminum-to-aluminum if you are completely thorough. Its always a
question of how far to go. You would likely never have problems with
aluminum wiring. Like everything is is a question of what is acceptable
risk.

Oxide forms rapidly on a 'clean' aluminum surface because aluminum is
quite reactive. The oxide layer is very thin and is transparent. In any
case, watch for wirenuts that have overheated, or damaged wire
insulation as you open boxes.

- Use Alumiconn e.g. on fixtures with stranded copper or where space
is an issue

I would probably scrape and use antioxidant. But the screw likely breaks
through any oxide - an advantage of Alumiconn.


- Replace any 14AWG aluminum wire
- Replace any 20A breakers on 12AWG aluminum circuits with 15A
breakers

I agree with Dave that you should not find either of these. But looking
is good.


- On switches and outlets, replace with new CO/ALR devices

alreduce.htm has a similar scrape and antioxidant procedure. Binding
screws don't deform the wire and won't reliably break any oxide layer.


- Pigtail to copper for GFCI outlets in baths, kitchen, laundry, or
similarly install GFCI breakers if I can find them for my panel

Pigtailing breakers is an option. As you open boxes consider the
additional space of the pigtails in addition to the large space required
by the GFCI outlet.

- Have an electrician check the connections at high voltage appliances
and the service drop

15 and 20A branch circuits are the problem. In connections to larger
wire, the wire ends up being deformed and I believe connections are
quite reliable. But checking is reasonable. If you get an electrican,
pull the meter and check the connections there as well as service panel.
The utility service drop connection to your entrance is probably quite
reliable. The connections are probalby all made with high compression,
forming a cold weld between metals. You probably know more than most
electricians about 15 & 20A aluminum branch circuits.

- Keep my eye out for the feasibility of series fault AFCIs as they
become available


The NEC requires them starting Jan 1 2008. You might want to wait until
there is some field experience with them. I don't know of any that are
being sold just 8 months before they are required. The new "combination"
AFCIs detect arcs at a 5A level instead of the approx 70A level in the
AFCIs now out. And they have to distinguish from arcs that are OK.
Sounds like a major engineering challenge. It will be interesting what
is available Jan 1.

--
bud--

According to Dave Martindale :
" writes:

- Replace any 14AWG aluminum wire
- Replace any 20A breakers on 12AWG aluminum circuits with 15A
breakers

Do you actually have any 14 AWG aluminum? Was it ever used for branch
circuits? Similarly, was 12 AWG ever used for 20 A circuits?

I thought aluminum was always required to be 12 AWG for 15 A.

AFAIK, Al was _always_ up one guage for the same ampacity.
Eg: 15A - 12ga, 20A - 10ga

But it doesn't hurt to doublecheck. It was new, some electricians
goofed.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Apr 18, 2:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
" writes:
- Replace any 14AWG aluminum wire
- Replace any 20A breakers on 12AWG aluminum circuits with 15A
breakers

Do you actually have any 14 AWG aluminum? Was it ever used for branch
circuits? Similarly, was 12 AWG ever used for 20 A circuits?

I haven't checked yet, but I was told it was common in bathroom wiring
at the time. I'm picturing that it would have been used e.g. to wire
those crappy bathroom light fixtures that have an AC plug on the side.

On Apr 19, 11:28 am, Bud-- wrote:

OK, so currently my Al mitigation plan is:
- Use Scotchlok spring nuts according to the instructions in
alreduce.htm (scrape, no-alox, pre-twist) wherever solid aluminum
mates to solid copper

Or aluminum-to-aluminum if you are completely thorough.

Yeah, scrape and noalox should be done at connections to aluminum wire
or CO/ALR devices too, and it's not like it takes more than a few
seconds once it's pulled apart anyway.

- Use Alumiconn e.g. on fixtures with stranded copper or where space
is an issue

I would probably scrape and use antioxidant. But the screw likely breaks
through any oxide - an advantage of Alumiconn.

Alumiconn comes loaded with antioxidant already, so I can just strip
the wire and stick it in. Alumiconn does have a fairly specific
torque requirement, and a non-UL alternative torquing method (i.e.
measured in turns of screw instead of in*lb).

The NEC requires them starting Jan 1 2008. You might want to wait until
there is some field experience with them. I don't know of any that are
being sold just 8 months before they are required. The new "combination"
AFCIs detect arcs at a 5A level instead of the approx 70A level in the
AFCIs now out. And they have to distinguish from arcs that are OK.
Sounds like a major engineering challenge. It will be interesting what
is available Jan 1.

Perhaps a revised NEC ;-)

According to :
On Apr 18, 2:50 pm, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
Do you actually have any 14 AWG aluminum? Was it ever used for branch
circuits? Similarly, was 12 AWG ever used for 20 A circuits?

I haven't checked yet, but I was told it was common in bathroom wiring
at the time. I'm picturing that it would have been used e.g. to wire
those crappy bathroom light fixtures that have an AC plug on the side.

I don't think 14AWG aluminum was ever available here. Not rated
for 15A, can't be used for power wiring...
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On 2007-04-19, Bud-- wrote:
- Have an electrician check the connections at high voltage appliances
and the service drop

15 and 20A branch circuits are the problem. In connections to larger
wire, the wire ends up being deformed and I believe connections are
quite reliable. But checking is reasonable. If you get an electrican,

Interesting. My house has copper wiring, and the detached garage has
copper wiring, but the 240V 40A connection from the house to the garage
is aluminum. I suppose that I shouldn't worry about that, then, as that
is larger wire than branch circuit wire.

Nifty thread, lots of good info about al oxide, etc.

OK -- some 15 or more years ago I set up a hi-fi system:

the receiver/amp/fm-am were, as usual, in one box,
and I connected it (via cables) to a tape deck
and (later) to cd-player (my terminology!).

When I did this the cable ends were "male" aluminum,
and on the various boxes the "female" sockets(?)
were also aluminum (seemed to me. Maybe it just
*looked* like aluminum?)

Anyway, the other day it was sounding a bit "scratchy",
and it turned out to be cable-connection. After I
got my pocket-knife and lightly scraped the male plug,
it worked fine again.

Someone observing this told me that times had changed,
and that these days pretty much no one used aluminum;
instead, they used gold-plated plugs and sockets, etc.

That I throw away all my (stereo) cables and replace them
all with these gold ones.


So here I am considering this, wondering how much these
new gold-plated things will cost, etc --

and lo and behold, I come across this thread.

QUESTION: once you had scraped clean an al plug,
then would you paint on one of the several anti-oxidation
products you were talking about?

Or maybe that makes no sense at all!


Suggestions?

Thanks

David

David Combs wrote:
Nifty thread, lots of good info about al oxide, etc.

OK -- some 15 or more years ago I set up a hi-fi system:

the receiver/amp/fm-am were, as usual, in one box,
and I connected it (via cables) to a tape deck
and (later) to cd-player (my terminology!).

When I did this the cable ends were "male" aluminum,
and on the various boxes the "female" sockets(?)
were also aluminum (seemed to me. Maybe it just
*looked* like aluminum?)

Anyway, the other day it was sounding a bit "scratchy",
and it turned out to be cable-connection. After I
got my pocket-knife and lightly scraped the male plug,
it worked fine again.

Someone observing this told me that times had changed,
and that these days pretty much no one used aluminum;
instead, they used gold-plated plugs and sockets, etc.

That I throw away all my (stereo) cables and replace them
all with these gold ones.


So here I am considering this, wondering how much these
new gold-plated things will cost, etc --

and lo and behold, I come across this thread.

QUESTION: once you had scraped clean an al plug,
then would you paint on one of the several anti-oxidation
products you were talking about?

Or maybe that makes no sense at all!


Sounds like shielded cable connected by RCA plugs?

I doubt aluminum was ever used. I would guess more likely tinned or
nickel plated surface. If I was doing it, I would probably use a *very*
light coat of Lubriplate (white lithium grease) or Vaseline. Or pull the
connectors out and reinsert every 5 years to mechanically wear the surface.

IMHO the major effectiveness of gold plated audio stuff is separating
pidgeons from their money.

Better answers might be obtained from sci.electronics.repair. They
probably lack the 'audiophiles' that give bizarre answers. Or
alt.engineering.electrical.

[For an amusing pseudo-audiophile post on alt.engineering.electrical see
message 4 at:
http://tinyurl.com/2skj5z

--
bud--