.... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna

On Mar 21, 4:56 pm, "Donna" wrote:
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a
crew to put this thing in.

"Lawrence" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 21, 4:56 pm, "Donna" wrote:
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a
crew to put this thing in.

....or you could just dig a hole at the low spot, buy a sump pump from the
local big box home store and run a hose or pipe out of the basement...

"Fast Edddie" ed@poolhall wrote in message
...
"Lawrence" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 21, 4:56 pm, "Donna" wrote:
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the
water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can
I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a
crew to put this thing in.

...or you could just dig a hole at the low spot, buy a sump pump from the
local big box home store and run a hose or pipe out of the basement...


A pedestal type pump will work in a 5 gallon sump if you use a check valve
to prevent backflow so you have to dig is a 10 gallon hole. You can do it
with hand tools if you must. You will earn what you don't spend.

But first figure out the best way to do it. Is the water coming up through
the floor?
Or in through the wall and collecting at the low spot?
From one section? Or more?

A slightly better picture of the situation will allow some one to better
help you.

"Donna" attempted to ask what they thought
was a serious question by saying:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna


From my experience in most cases a sump & pump is just a way to throw money
at a problem on the cheap and still not fix the issue. If you've really got
basement water problems spend the bucks on something like the B-Dry system
and be done with it. Just be sure to check out the contractor in your area
before hiring though, there are a lot of 'not so satisfying' operators in
the basement waterproofing business. Not to mention a lot of people selling
systems that will fail or not work at all. Do some serious research, call a
lot of vendors for assessments/quotes, check out the vendors you are
considering with BBB and whoever else you can find in your area.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:56:11 GMT, "Donna"
wrote:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

Is that in the middle of the floor, or near the edge. Like the other
guy asked, how is the water getting there?

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement,

So is the water coming in through the rocks? Are the walls painted?

with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

You need to give more details.

Donna

The hard part of digging the sump is getting through the cement, which
iiuc is likely to be 6? inches thick.

The hard part about getting through the cement imo would be keeping
the boundaries of the hole you are making within bounds.

If it were a one-inch piece of cement, you could draw a boundry and
use a cold chisel and a heavy hammer, and by all means goggles, to
chisel a quater or half inch line to mark the border, and then when
you went after the middle**, the hole would probably remain within the
lines.

**See if you can lift the lightest electric jack hammer they rent, or
is there a better tool for this. The jack hammer was easy to use.
And lifting it was easy the first few times, but that got harder
quickly as I got tired. I'm 5'8" and my arms were almost parallel to
tthe ground. If I had been taller, or had stood on something 4 to 8
inches high, it would have been easier. But if you rent for a whole
day, you can rest in between. But there must be something smaller and
lighter for a little hole like this, even if it 6? inches thick.

But since it's a lot thicker, is that what one uses a power hamnmer
for? Or an air chisel? Can she rent a compressor and is there a
cemenmt cutting device?

Or should she just make the hole and then replace whatever cement
breaks that shoudlnt' have.

After you are through the floor, digging the rest of the hole should
be pretty easy, and then you have to line the hole with a cylinder of
some sort so that the earth doesn't collapse. Then make an exit for
the cisharge pipe, and run the water away from your house. Putting in
the pump and connecting it should be pretty easy.

"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.


This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a
crew to put this thing in.


Don't listen to this guy, it is easier than you may think. Yes, it does
take a bit of labor though to break concrete and dig. .

You buy a pump and you buy a plastic sump liner made for exactly this
purpose. The hard part is cutting the concrete floor. You can score it
with an abrasive blade in a circular saw, they with a rented jack hammer or
muscle and a sledge hammer, you break out the concrete. Dig for the sump,
then put some stone and the liner, put the pump in place, then run a drain
line.

They showed this on Ask This Old House a couple of months ago. Sorry
Lawrence, maybe you are not up to it but Tom and a woman did the job in her
house. Check out some information on episode 425.
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvpr...173062,00.html

Here is the basin http://www.akindustries.com/

Jackson wrote:
"Donna" attempted to ask what they
thought was a serious question by saying:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the
water pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or
can I do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with
a cement floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects
water. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna


From my experience in most cases a sump & pump is just a way to throw
money at a problem on the cheap and still not fix the issue. If
you've really got basement water problems spend the bucks on
something like the B-Dry system and be done with it. Just be sure to
check out the contractor in your area before hiring though, there are
a lot of 'not so satisfying' operators in the basement waterproofing
business. Not to mention a lot of people selling systems that will
fail or not work at all. Do some serious research, call a lot of
vendors for assessments/quotes, check out the vendors you are
considering with BBB and whoever else you can find in your area.

The "B-Dry system" list two types of products. The first I found listed
was a fancy name for a sump pump system. The second is the useless paint -
spray on trash. I think I would avoid B-Dry based on the way the market
their product if for no other reason.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Donna wrote:
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna

Hi, Donna.

BTDT. One option (worked for me):
1. Get a decent quality pump (submersible, whatever)., with float-
valve.
2. Get/rent/borrow a hammer-drill and drill holes to outline a hole,
say 8-12" larger in diameter than the pump, in the slab at the low
point,
say 1' from the wall (footings); clean out hole down to a depth of,
say,
16-18".
3. Mix up some stiff mortar mix, get rubber gloves, and apply mortar
to
make stable sides for hole. If any drainage channel in the area, leave
open.
4. Place pump in hole; run pipe (plastic is simplest) with
appropriate
couplings, outside house (not to sewer!) maybe even with some garden
hose coupled on, so it drains away from house.
5. Plug it in and relax; you'll relax more if it has battery backup.
6. See what you can do to make sure gutters drain away from house, of
course.

HTH,
J

"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

I had a second pump put in a corner that wasn't draining properly. The guy
cut out a square with a circular saw, dug a pit, and worked a plastic basin
in. A lot of work, but nothing too difficult. The dust was HORRIBLE.
I had him plumb it to the sanitary sewer, which I later found out is
illegal; but it only came on when the first pump was overwhelmed, so it
didn't amount to much.

Since you obviously don't have drain tiles, getting one corner dry may not
do much for the other corners; which is why I had the problem. My house
originally had no sump or tiles, but they put a sump in after it flooded 3
times the first year (I found this out after calling the original owner when
I started having problems.)

On Mar 21, 4:56�pm, "Donna" wrote:
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. *Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

*warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? *Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? * *We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. *Thanks.

Donna

First you must look at this as a system!

Is the grade away from your home all around on the outside? if ground
lets rain come towards your home you are fighting a lost cause.

then how about gutters and downspouts? gutters clean and free running?
downspouts well away from home. like 20 feet? open and clear or filled
with leaves. try running a garden hose for a hour in each line if its
underground, backup?

you must keep all water away from house.

then move to indoor drain system, how are the walls? where does the
water come in?

concrete floors are often pretty thin, try drilling a hole with a
masonary bit to check.

jackhammer way better than dusty masonary blade.

installing a sump and pump isnt very hard, if your not a couch potato.

tell us more about your situation so advice can better fit your needs.

In article , Joseph Meehan says...

Jackson wrote:
"Donna" attempted to ask what they
thought was a serious question by saying:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the
water pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or
can I do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with
a cement floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects
water. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna


From my experience in most cases a sump & pump is just a way to throw
money at a problem on the cheap and still not fix the issue. If
you've really got basement water problems spend the bucks on
something like the B-Dry system and be done with it. Just be sure to
check out the contractor in your area before hiring though, there are
a lot of 'not so satisfying' operators in the basement waterproofing
business. Not to mention a lot of people selling systems that will
fail or not work at all. Do some serious research, call a lot of
vendors for assessments/quotes, check out the vendors you are
considering with BBB and whoever else you can find in your area.

The "B-Dry system" list two types of products. The first I found listed
was a fancy name for a sump pump system. The second is the useless paint -
spray on trash. I think I would avoid B-Dry based on the way the market
their product if for no other reason.


I don't know about any spray on stuff, but the B-Dry system I have is an
interior drain tile system with sump pump. Working beautifully for 11 years
now.

Banty

On 21 Mar 2007 18:36:35 -0700, wrote:

I agreed with everything you said prior to this point.

4. Place pump in hole; run pipe (plastic is simplest) with
appropriate
couplings, outside house (not to sewer!)

Absolutely. In the townhouse next to me, someone rerouted the output
to the house drain (and neatly cemented the hole where the output pipe
had been). This means that if the sewer backs up, the sump pump will
pump that water into the drain which goes to the sewer which is
backing up. And that's a real possibility with my house and the three
next to it, which are the lowest in the n'hood, and which do flood
every few years when rain fills the stream which overflows into the
sewers and fills them. And I told the new owner at least 5 years ago
about all this, and he still hasn't done anything.

Oh, you're probably referring to the fact that even if this doesn't
happen, it overloads the sewer and is likely illegal too. That's a
good reason also.

maybe even with some garden
hose coupled on,

This why I posted. Have you tried this? The volume out of my pump
far exceeds what I believe can flow through a garden hose, even the
wider ones. Even a short length of such narrow hose (compared to the
2 or 1 1/2 inch pipe the pump takes) would restrict flow, I'm sure,
and even more if the hose were longer. My plastic pipe feeds into a
buried 4 inch pipe (and ftr that isn't coupled on but fits loosely in
case, I think, the buried pipe collapses or is clogged.)

so it drains away from house.
5. Plug it in and relax; you'll relax more if it has battery backup.

Yeah, if I had a backup that would be good -- I plan to put one in --
and it makes sense and be easier to make the first and only pump one
that has battery backup. Get the kind that runs on 110 if is there,
and uses the battery if the 110 fails. Some places 110 is more likely
to fail at the same time there is more flooding, altough that has
never happened to me, yet.)

(Although then of course comes the question whether to use battry
backup that requires maainenance, or that water powered thing whose
name I have forgotten. IIRC they are in total about the same price.
The water powered is harder to install but requires no maintenance,
and no bulky battery once it is in. As long as one pays the water
bill and doesn't get his water disconnected. That' a lot more rare
than even getting gas or phone disconnected, right?)

6. See what you can do to make sure gutters drain away from house, of
course.

HTH,
J

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 01:49:48 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


I had a second pump put in a corner that wasn't draining properly. The guy
cut out a square with a circular saw, dug a pit, and worked a plastic basin
in. A lot of work, but nothing too difficult. The dust was HORRIBLE.

I forgot about dust. Wear a good dust maak and probably keep the
vacuum running all the time, to clean the air. If there were a
window, I'd recommend a fan blowing out a window. (I did this when I
sanded my floor, with an old 14 inch fan from the trash. It ran all
day with no problem, and then failed just as I was about to turn it
off.)

I had him plumb it to the sanitary sewer, which I later found out is
illegal; but it only came on when the first pump was overwhelmed, so it

i"m not in a position to judge, and the OP's basement might never get
that wet, buy this sounds like an advantage over a regular pump and a
backup, as opposed to the single pump I just recommended. My pump has
only been overwhelmed once in 28 years, but it would sure have been
nice to have two pumps at that time. (Or a bigger first pump. I
suppose they sold one but I only looked for the same size I had since
it had worked fine for the first 15 years. Rusted through then but
the new ones have plastic pipe at the water level and I think will
last 2 or 3 times as long.)

didn't amount to much.

On Mar 22, 3:43�am, mm wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 01:49:48 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

I had a second pump put in a corner that wasn't draining properly. *The guy
cut out a square with a circular saw, dug a pit, and worked a plastic basin
in. * A lot of work, but nothing too difficult. *The dust was HORRIBLE.

I forgot about dust. *Wear a good dust maak and probably keep the
vacuum running all the time, to clean the air. *If there were a
window, I'd recommend a fan blowing out a window. *(I did this when I
sanded my floor, with an old 14 inch fan from the trash. *It ran all
day with no problem, and then failed just as I was about to turn it
off.)

I had him plumb it to the sanitary sewer, which I later found out is
illegal; but it only came on when the first pump was overwhelmed, so it

i"m not in a position to judge, and the OP's basement might never get
that wet, buy this sounds like an advantage over a regular pump and a
backup, as opposed to the single pump I just recommended. *My pump has
only been overwhelmed once in 28 years, but it would sure have been
nice to have two pumps at that time. *(Or a bigger first pump. I
suppose they sold one but I only looked for the same size I had since
it had worked fine for the first 15 years. *Rusted through then but
the new ones have plastic pipe at the water level and I think will
last 2 or 3 times as long.)



didn't amount to much.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh the amount of dust from cutting concrete is WAY WORSE than
sanding, jackhammer better choice.

dust is abrasive, lightweight, goes into cloud might get in furnace
etc.

plus if you jackhammer the repaired concrete is way less likely to
crack.

thew nice smooth edge of masonary blade equals poor adhesion.

ideally the underground drain runs to day light somewhere. gravity
tends to be reliable. even if its a lot of digging you will appreciate
knowing your sump cant fail. plus a 4 inch PVC line can carry way more
water than a backup sump pump

if you must go pump, do TWO, with seperate outlets, completely
seperate everything.

perhaps the primary draind into a downspout line?

thake the backup thru the wall and let it spray out of side of home if
the water will run away downhill.

having just one pump or pump sharing lines etc leaves you more open to
failure.........

"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna
Buy pump, plug it in, stick it in the low spot, stick the hose out the door,
you're done. At least that's the way it is in my field stone basement. I
don't know why you would need a "well", in my basement the pump sits by the
stairs, which is the lowest point of the basement, so as the water runs in
though the walls, in runs down to the pump. The pump only comes on when it
senses it's sitting in water, and voila, dry basement. It's a total
no-brainer.

h wrote in message ...

Buy pump, plug it in, stick it in the low spot, stick the hose out the
door, you're done. At least that's the way it is in my field stone
basement. . The pump only comes on when it senses it's sitting in water,
and voila, dry basement. It's a total no-brainer.

What if the basement floor, like most, is pretty flat and has no low spot?
The no brainer is to have a sump, otherwise the floor needs a couple of
inches of water before the pump starts.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:56:11 GMT, "Donna"
wrote:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna


IMHO,

Installing a sump pump can be done by average handy people. However,
this is very conditional. Depends on your situation, and since sump
pumps are a small part of a larger 'dry basement' solution, you should
have an 'expert' evaluate your situation. Please verify they are
'experts' first.

tom @ www.MeetANewFriend.com

On Mar 21, 5:27 pm, "Jackson" wrote:
"Donna" attempted to ask what they thought
was a serious question by saying:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna

From my experience in most cases a sump & pump is just a way to throw money
at a problem on the cheap and still not fix the issue. If you've really got
basement water problems spend the bucks on something like the B-Dry system
and be done with it. Just be sure to check out the contractor in your area
before hiring though, there are a lot of 'not so satisfying' operators in
the basement waterproofing business. Not to mention a lot of people selling
systems that will fail or not work at all. Do some serious research, call a
lot of vendors for assessments/quotes, check out the vendors you are
considering with BBB and whoever else you can find in your area.

Waste money? For a total of around $150-200 (today's prices) I can
(and did) install a sump pump in my basement changing what had been a
flooded floor into a dry basement all year long. Any system that is
going to keep water out of the basement to begin with is going to run
in the thousands.

Were I to do it today I would do the same thing, using the same tools
and I am now 72. Wouldn't have a problem at all using that electric
rotarly hammer to drill the perimeter holes every 3-4 inches then bust
out the concrete with a sledge. My drain line is buried and exits
into a ditch 100 ft away.

Harry K

In article , h says...


"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the water
pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna
Buy pump, plug it in, stick it in the low spot, stick the hose out the door,
you're done. At least that's the way it is in my field stone basement. I
don't know why you would need a "well", in my basement the pump sits by the
stairs, which is the lowest point of the basement, so as the water runs in
though the walls, in runs down to the pump. The pump only comes on when it
senses it's sitting in water, and voila, dry basement. It's a total
no-brainer.



OK, maybe there's something I don't get (and an old fieldstone foundation
probably drives a different set of options than my block foundation...), but,
isn't the basement wet when the water is flowing towards the place where the
sump pump is? So, it's not really a complmete dry basement solution.

Banty

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:%IwMh.12758$FS5.5163@trndny09...

h wrote in message ...

Buy pump, plug it in, stick it in the low spot, stick the hose out the
door, you're done. At least that's the way it is in my field stone
basement. . The pump only comes on when it senses it's sitting in water,
and voila, dry basement. It's a total no-brainer.

What if the basement floor, like most, is pretty flat and has no low spot?
The no brainer is to have a sump, otherwise the floor needs a couple of
inches of water before the pump starts.

Agreed, but my 18th century basement floor is SO not level, and I think
that's the case with most field stone foundation basements. I still can't
believe some idiot poured a concrete floor for mine, sometime in the early
1900s, I'd guess. It would have been MUCH better to have left it dirt, as it
is in the root cellar portion of the basement. The root cellar gets wet, but
the water soaks right into the floor. Problem solved.

"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.
snip initial post


You guys are awesome. What a wealth of information!

Since so many of you have asked for additional info, I'll respond en mass.
The basement is fieldstone, painted with drylok. This keeps the bulk of
the basement dry (although in spots it needs to be repointed, which is
another "how do I do it" question, which I'll pose once the more pressing
problem has been solved.

The house is 80 or 90 years old. The floor is poured cement over the
original dirt floor. The basement is in two rooms - one finished as
above, and sculpted so that water runs to the sides of the room, and then
into a pipe exiting the house. I think this is called a French drain?
Whatever it's called, it works beautifully.

The water comes into the smaller unfinished room. It comes in through two
places 1) under the door from the garage (which is below the surface of the
floor. From the garage, you go down some cement stairs to the basement
door. Water pools in the stairwell when the water tables are high, and
runs under the door. I'm thinking a better door would fix this problem.
The second place water pours in is through the original house's coal chute,
which doesn't seem to ever have been sealed over. Water comes in through
a small passageway (I hate to say chimney - it looks like a cross between a
pipe and a chimney) which behind the cement wall, and opens into the
basement, at a low spot. I have been assuming that this is where the
original coal furnace lived, originally. From the outside, it's all been
turfed over, but when I was landscaping last year, i uncovered what looks
like a 3x5 by 8foot deep coal chute, filled with coal and dirt, then tarped
over, and turfed over. It's amazing that more water doesn't get in,
frankly.

I hope that is enough information. It's kind of a weird set up, as you can
see.

Having read all of your thoughtful posts, it looks an awful lot like the job
of installing a well is going to be beyond my abilities. It also looks like
it might be prohibitively expensive, unless the "put a sump pump in the low
spot and run a hose out the door" idea is feasible. Is it?

The solution seems to be to excavate the coal chute (But with what? I tried
to dig it out last year, and the fist-sized lumps of coal make it impossible
to do by hand. The location (in the corner of the house, flush with the
walls) makes it impossible to get a piece of earthmoving equipment in
there). I can't tell what the walls of the chute are made of -- they
could be cement, or they could be dirt. Or metal. Or some combination of
all three. Would excavating it by hand (litterally digging at it with a
trowel) a couple of feet down and pouring cement seal it off do you think?

I'm kind of baffled by the whole situation, which is why it has continued
for the three years since we bought the house. As always, I would love to
hear your thoughts.

Grateful thanks,

Donna

"Donna" wrote in message
news:HMAMh.15547$el3.8640@trndny01...

"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.
snip initial post


Having read all of your thoughtful posts, it looks an awful lot like the
job of installing a well is going to be beyond my abilities. It also
looks like it might be prohibitively expensive, unless the "put a sump
pump in the low spot and run a hose out the door" idea is feasible. Is
it?

Depends. As others have said, if your floor is fairly level, it won't work
too well. My floor has QUITE a slant, so the water runs right down the floor
and pools at the stairs. Seems like they didn't level the floor when they
poured the cement over the dirt, so I'm not quite sure what they thought
they were accomplishing. However, makes it quite easy to pump it out. Pump,
plug, hose, done. But that's my VERY slanty floor. As always, YYMV.

H

On 22 Mar 2007 08:30:06 -0700, "Harry K"
wrote:
Were I to do it today I would do the same thing, using the same tools
and I am now 72. Wouldn't have a problem at all using that electric
rotarly hammer to drill the perimeter holes every 3-4 inches then bust
out the concrete with a sledge. My drain line is buried and exits
into a ditch 100 ft away.

Harry K

You go Harry! A man of action G.

--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a
crew to put this thing in.

Don't listen to this guy, it is easier than you may think. Yes, it does
take a bit of labor though to break concrete and dig. .

You buy a pump and you buy a plastic sump liner made for exactly this
purpose. The hard part is cutting the concrete floor. You can score it
with an abrasive blade in a circular saw, they with a rented jack hammer or
muscle and a sledge hammer, you break out the concrete. Dig for the sump,
then put some stone and the liner, put the pump in place, then run a drain
line.

They showed this on Ask This Old House a couple of months ago. Sorry
Lawrence, maybe you are not up to it but Tom and a woman did the job in her
house. Check out some information on episode 425.http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvpr...esources/episo...

Here is the basin http://www.akindustries.com/

My good man, the show you refer to is very popular and you are right
to say it is possible to do it yourself. Note: A professional
plumber was onsite for that installation and that is what I
recommended. Also, those shows are quite a lot more scripted than
you think. They make it look easy because that is what they are paid
to do. Laborers are often available off screen.

Yes, it is easy to throw a pump in a hole as long as your are
comfortable with manual labor. You will have a higher likelyhood of
a job that you will be happy with for years to come if you hire a
real plumber and laborers.

Since your have called me out personally I have to tell you... I am
capable of solving any plumbing problems that I have including a
drywell if necessary. I answer questions in this forum, I do not post
them. My goal is to be helpful rather than confrontational. This
person specifically asked if I thought she could do it. She did not
ask if is possible. I gave her good advice having a high likelyhood
of success.

On Mar 22, 2:27 pm, "Donna" wrote:
"Donna" wrote in message
The basement is fieldstone, painted with drylok. This keeps the bulk of
the basement dry (although in spots it needs to be repointed, which is
another "how do I do it" question, which I'll pose once the more pressing
problem has been solved.

The house is 80 or 90 years old. The floor is poured cement over the
original dirt floor. The basement is in two rooms - one finished as
above, and sculpted so that water runs to the sides of the room, and then
into a pipe exiting the house. I think this is called a French drain?
Whatever it's called, it works beautifully.

The water comes into the smaller unfinished room. It comes in through two
places 1) under the door from the garage (which is below the surface of the
floor. From the garage, you go down some cement stairs to the basement
door. Water pools in the stairwell when the water tables are high, and
runs under the door. I'm thinking a better door would fix this problem.
The second place water pours in is through the original house's coal chute,
which doesn't seem to ever have been sealed over. Water comes in through
a small passageway (I hate to say chimney - it looks like a cross between a
pipe and a chimney) which behind the cement wall, and opens into the
basement, at a low spot. I have been assuming that this is where the
original coal furnace lived, originally. From the outside, it's all been
turfed over, but when I was landscaping last year, i uncovered what looks
like a 3x5 by 8foot deep coal chute, filled with coal and dirt, then tarped
over, and turfed over. It's amazing that more water doesn't get in,
frankly.

I hope that is enough information. It's kind of a weird set up, as you can
see.

Having read all of your thoughtful posts, it looks an awful lot like the job
of installing a well is going to be beyond my abilities. It also looks like
it might be prohibitively expensive, unless the "put a sump pump in the low
spot and run a hose out the door" idea is feasible. Is it?

Thank you Donna for confirming my original answer. What you ask is
easily doable and better than a wet floor every time!! Just go out
and buy a pump. Many come with an adaptor for a garden hose. A
permanent install would likley use poly pipe and you can get a better
flow with a bigger pipe.

The solution seems to be to excavate the coal chute (But with what? I tried
to dig it out last year, and the fist-sized lumps of coal make it impossible
to do by hand. The location (in the corner of the house, flush with the
walls) makes it impossible to get a piece of earthmoving equipment in
there). I can't tell what the walls of the chute are made of -- they
could be cement, or they could be dirt. Or metal. Or some combination of
all three. Would excavating it by hand (litterally digging at it with a
trowel) a couple of feet down and pouring cement seal it off do you think?

By all means put your energy into eliminating the source of the
problem!! That should always be where you put your energy first.
I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you without seeing the property
but here are some ideas. Just thinkin out loud, OK?

Excavate and seal the old coal shute permanently where it exits the
ground and inside the house both. Water coming in from the driveway
and garage would have to be diverted at the street to keep it from
coming in. Where I live we use a culvert to keep water from flowing
down the driveway. If you are in a town then you may not have that
option. A re-constructed driveway might possible divert the water
elswhere.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Joseph Meehan
says...

Jackson wrote:
"Donna" attempted to ask what they
thought was a serious question by saying:

... my basement, I mean.

We badly need a sump pump. Maybe two, but definitely one where the
water pools every spring.

warily eyeing the melting snow

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or
can I do it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with
a cement floor. There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects
water. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Donna


From my experience in most cases a sump & pump is just a way to throw
money at a problem on the cheap and still not fix the issue. If
you've really got basement water problems spend the bucks on
something like the B-Dry system and be done with it. Just be sure to
check out the contractor in your area before hiring though, there are
a lot of 'not so satisfying' operators in the basement waterproofing
business. Not to mention a lot of people selling systems that will
fail or not work at all. Do some serious research, call a lot of
vendors for assessments/quotes, check out the vendors you are
considering with BBB and whoever else you can find in your area.

The "B-Dry system" list two types of products. The first I found
listed
was a fancy name for a sump pump system. The second is the useless
paint -
spray on trash. I think I would avoid B-Dry based on the way the market
their product if for no other reason.


I don't know about any spray on stuff, but the B-Dry system I have is an
interior drain tile system with sump pump. Working beautifully for 11
years
now.

Banty


Yes, I don't know anything about B-Dry marketing spray on stuff, paint, etc.
I was referring to the company that digs the interior trench, places piping
for drain, covers it with stone and then cements back over it. If you have
a block foundation they will also drill weep holes into the bottom of the
blocks and install some sort of material to catch any water that might seep
into or through cracks in the blocks/mortar. They will sell pumps attached
to their system to discharge the collected water away from the structure if
you need one, but if you can run a gravity drain your even better off.
Here's a link to what I think is their website, but do your homework because
the local shops are all independent franchisees:

http://www.bdry.com/

There are others, Basement Systems, etc, but B-Dry is the big name in the
business from my experience. Yes, any type of coating inside like paint is
only a temporary (if at all!) solution.

"Lawrence" wrote in message


My good man, the show you refer to is very popular and you are right
to say it is possible to do it yourself. Note: A professional
plumber was onsite for that installation and that is what I
recommended. Also, those shows are quite a lot more scripted than
you think. They make it look easy because that is what they are paid
to do. Laborers are often available off screen.

It looks simple because it is. A sixteen year old with a sledge hammer and
shovel can do the excavation. It is not a job for a highly skilled plumber
at $90 an hour, but some work for a $9 an hour teenager.



Yes, it is easy to throw a pump in a hole as long as your are
comfortable with manual labor. You will have a higher likelyhood of
a job that you will be happy with for years to come if you hire a
real plumber and laborers.

Really? I would not be. Why a pluber at all? This is not what I'd
classify as tru plubing whee you have to solder joints, lay out the toilet
rough in, repair a leak at a main valve, etc. This is running some PVC or
even a hose. This type of job is a perfect traing ground for a DIY person
that would like to eventually try plumbing. No pressure involved, no feeds
to appiances,, no fancy hardware.



Since your have called me out personally I have to tell you... I am
capable of solving any plumbing problems that I have including a
drywell if necessary. I answer questions in this forum, I do not post
them. My goal is to be helpful rather than confrontational. This
person specifically asked if I thought she could do it. She did not
ask if is possible. I gave her good advice having a high likelyhood
of success.

Never questioned your personal skills. I have to disagree with your
assessment of the situation though. A plumber and crew will take this job
to be about $500 to $800 plus materials instead of $50. If the OP is not
comfortable doing the job, hire a handyman for $30 an hour instead of a $90
plumber.

On 22 Mar 2007 15:56:14 -0700, "Lawrence"
wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a

I thought you meant an experience plumbing company, as opposed to a
minimally experienced one, and that the OP's doing it herself was out
of the question.

crew to put this thing in.
.....

My good man, the show you refer to is very popular and you are right
to say it is possible to do it yourself. Note: A professional
plumber was onsite for that installation and that is what I
recommended. Also, those shows are quite a lot more scripted than
you think. They make it look easy because that is what they are paid
to do. Laborers are often available off screen.

Yes, it is easy to throw a pump in a hole as long as your are
comfortable with manual labor.

I don't want to argue, but I didn't get this impression from your
first post. And I think the OP should have understood just be looking
at the job that manual labor would be involved, with a cement floor,
and even more so after people recommended a jack hammer ("See if you
can lift the lightest electric jack hammer they rent,... ") although
these posts came after yours.

You will have a higher likelyhood of
a job that you will be happy with for years to come if you hire a
real plumber and laborers.

Since your have called me out personally I have to tell you... I am
capable of solving any plumbing problems that I have including a
drywell if necessary. I answer questions in this forum, I do not post
them. My goal is to be helpful rather than confrontational. This
person specifically asked if I thought she could do it. She did not
ask if is possible. I gave her good advice having a high likelyhood
of success.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:27:35 GMT, "Donna"
wrote:


"Donna" wrote in message
news:%RhMh.14039$el3.12129@trndny01...
... my basement, I mean.
snip initial post


You guys are awesome. What a wealth of information!

Since so many of you have asked for additional info, I'll respond en mass.
The basement is fieldstone, painted with drylok. This keeps the bulk of
the basement dry (although in spots it needs to be repointed, which is
another "how do I do it" question, which I'll pose once the more pressing
problem has been solved.

The house is 80 or 90 years old. The floor is poured cement over the
original dirt floor.

Well, in that case, i have no idea how thick the cement is, especially
if the ceiling was low to begin with.

The basement is in two rooms - one finished as
above, and sculpted so that water runs to the sides of the room, and then
into a pipe exiting the house. I think this is called a French drain?
Whatever it's called, it works beautifully.

The water comes into the smaller unfinished room. It comes in through two
places 1) under the door from the garage (which is below the surface of the
floor.

The bottom of the door is below the surface of the floor? Regardless,
you might be able to channel that water away before it gets under the
door, or right after it does.

We had a double overhead garage door that let water into the garage,
at one end of the door, even though it was pretty flat everywhere (no
hill outside to cause it run in. It was just water spreading out) and
in high school I wanted to put a rubber gasket under the door, but at
the same time sort of doubted that would be enough. Or that it would
lift up the door and let water in somewhere else. So I never did
anything, but it didn't cause the problems yours is causing.

From the garage, you go down some cement stairs to the basement
door. Water pools in the stairwell when the water tables are high, and
runs under the door. I'm thinking a better door would fix this problem.
The second place water pours in is through the original house's coal chute,
which doesn't seem to ever have been sealed over. Water comes in through
a small passageway (I hate to say chimney - it looks like a cross between a
pipe and a chimney) which behind the cement wall, and opens into the
basement, at a low spot. I have been assuming that this is where the
original coal furnace lived, originally. From the outside, it's all been
turfed over, but when I was landscaping last year, i uncovered what looks
like a 3x5 by 8foot deep coal chute, filled with coal and dirt, then tarped
over, and turfed over. It's amazing that more water doesn't get in,
frankly.

Do something about these two places and maybe you wont' need the sump
pump. If you're not going to need the sump pump, don't drill a hole
in the floor to find out how thick the cement is, or water will get in
through the hole.

I hope that is enough information. It's kind of a weird set up, as you can
see.

Having read all of your thoughtful posts, it looks an awful lot like the job
of installing a well is going to be beyond my abilities. It also looks like
it might be prohibitively expensive, unless the "put a sump pump in the low
spot and run a hose out the door" idea is feasible. Is it?

I think the idea was that the low spot was low enough that the sump
pump could work while on the surface of the floor. I don't know how
deep the water has to be before the sump pump starts to pick it up.
Someoen said two inches. You could find out somewhere.

I have an image that your low spot is only 2 or 3 inches lower than
the rest of the floor and only 3 to 4 feet across. You havent' said,
so that's my image. If that is the case, the sump pump will run for 4
or 5 seconds and remove all the water around it, and then wait until
more gathers. Wouldn't that mean that parts of the rest of the floor
are also wet. Maybe they dry out faster after the rain stops, so that
part of the floor doesn't bother you.

I have the same issue when my basement "floods", which is usually only
a quarter inch or less. I use a wet dry vac and I just use the tube,
no attachment, and it will vacuum leaving less than a tenth of
millimeter, maybe even getting the water out of the pores in the
cement, and then I have to move the vacuum tube somehwere else or wait
until the water slowly gathers at the first place. I can identify a
low space in my floor too, maybe a quarter inch low at most, and
putting the hose there doesn't work any better than anywhere else
except when I'm almost done.


The solution seems to be to excavate the coal chute (But with what? I tried
to dig it out last year, and the fist-sized lumps of coal make it impossible
to do by hand. The location (in the corner of the house, flush with the
walls) makes it impossible to get a piece of earthmoving equipment in
there). I can't tell what the walls of the chute are made of -- they
could be cement, or they could be dirt. Or metal. Or some combination of
all three. Would excavating it by hand (litterally digging at it with a
trowel) a couple of feet down and pouring cement seal it off do you think?

I can't picture this area, but there is bound to be a way to dig it
out, or seal it without digging it out without earth moving equipment.
There are millions? of coal chutes that have been sealed after they
aren't used, maybe just with a piece of wood or metal plate screwed
on** and the edges caulked, but again, I have no real image of the
situation in my head.

**Or some sheet metal formed into a box cover, by folding at the
corners, sort of like wrapping paper is wrapped around a gift box.
Again, I have no image.

ARen't you losing heat through this 12 x 12 inch hole? Again, my
image of a coal chute.

I'm kind of baffled by the whole situation, which is why it has continued
for the three years since we bought the house. As always, I would love to
hear your thoughts.

Grateful thanks,

Donna

On Mar 22, 8:45 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

My good man, the show you refer to is very popular and you are right
to say it is possible to do it yourself. Note: A professional
plumber was onsite for that installation and that is what I
recommended. Also, those shows are quite a lot more scripted than
you think. They make it look easy because that is what they are paid
to do. Laborers are often available off screen.

It looks simple because it is. A sixteen year old with a sledge hammer and
shovel can do the excavation. It is not a job for a highly skilled plumber
at $90 an hour, but some work for a $9 an hour teenager.



Yes, it is easy to throw a pump in a hole as long as your are
comfortable with manual labor. You will have a higher likelyhood of
a job that you will be happy with for years to come if you hire a
real plumber and laborers.

Really? I would not be. Why a pluber at all? This is not what I'd
classify as tru plubing whee you have to solder joints, lay out the toilet
rough in, repair a leak at a main valve, etc. This is running some PVC or
even a hose. This type of job is a perfect traing ground for a DIY person
that would like to eventually try plumbing. No pressure involved, no feeds
to appiances,, no fancy hardware.



Since your have called me out personally I have to tell you... I am
capable of solving any plumbing problems that I have including a
drywell if necessary. I answer questions in this forum, I do not post
them. My goal is to be helpful rather than confrontational. This
person specifically asked if I thought she could do it. She did not
ask if is possible. I gave her good advice having a high likelyhood
of success.

Never questioned your personal skills. I have to disagree with your
assessment of the situation though. A plumber and crew will take this job
to be about $500 to $800 plus materials instead of $50. If the OP is not
comfortable doing the job, hire a handyman for $30 an hour instead of a $90
plumber.

I have answered quite directly the questions the OP asked. She asked
if we thought she could do it and I answered her. She has since
agreed with me. You seem to be more interested in replying to me that
to the OP.

You can hire anyone to do a crap job that's for sure. There have been
many, many, posts from people with sumps that don't work usually
because they were installed by amateurs. Excavation and installation
of the drain line is usually where they fail.

You are right to say anyone can do it. It is just that I do not
reccomend it. She will be happier longer if you hire a pro

On Mar 23, 4:01 am, mm wrote:
On 22 Mar 2007 15:56:14 -0700, "Lawrence"
wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a

I thought you meant an experience plumbing company, as opposed to a
minimally experienced one, and that the OP's doing it herself was out
of the question.

What I meant is open to quite alot of interpretation, isn't it?? I
never said doing it your self was out of the question, never. The
reason you are confused is because I answered the question simply and
directly without adding any extra information. More posters should
do the same, ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Attacking my posts serves nothing. This person has already admitted
that this is beyond her ability. This makes my answer a correct one.
Some people seem to think that if the pros on TV can do it then anyone
can. That is simply rubbish.

On Mar 23, 5:47 am, "Lawrence" wrote:
On Mar 23, 4:01 am, mm wrote:





On 22 Mar 2007 15:56:14 -0700, "Lawrence"
wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a

I thought you meant an experience plumbing company, as opposed to a
minimally experienced one, and that the OP's doing it herself was out
of the question.

What I meant is open to quite alot of interpretation, isn't it?? I
never said doing it your self was out of the question, never. The
reason you are confused is because I answered the question simply and
directly without adding any extra information. More posters should
do the same, ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Attacking my posts serves nothing. This person has already admitted
that this is beyond her ability. This makes my answer a correct one.
Some people seem to think that if the pros on TV can do it then anyone
can. That is simply rubbish.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Anyone who is not handicapped is perfectly capable of breaking a hole
in a concrete floor by renting a rotohammer. That some people are
afraid of a little manual labor does not affect that. The OP sounds
like she was scared off by the doom-n-gloom guys.

You have a point about correctly installing the drain leading to the
pit but it takes nothing at all to install a sump pit/pump/exhaust
pipe.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 23, 5:47 am, "Lawrence" wrote:
On Mar 23, 4:01 am, mm wrote:

Anyone who is not handicapped is perfectly capable of breaking a hole
in a concrete floor by renting a rotohammer. That some people are
afraid of a little manual labor does not affect that. The OP sounds
like she was scared off by the doom-n-gloom guys.

You have a point about correctly installing the drain leading to the
pit but it takes nothing at all to install a sump pit/pump/exhaust
pipe.


Just to clarify: it sounds to me that doing this correctly, which seems to
involve a significant amount of plumbing, is beyond my abilities. If I
have to hire a plumber to install drainage, I might as well get one guy to
do the whole thing. Not that you asked, but... I'm pretty good at
holes. I'm lousy at plumbing *in* holes. Sadly, Bob Vila, I'm not.

Thanks again for all of your input and advice. I'm leaning towards
spending money on a pro to put in the sump pump and drains, and investing my
energy in excavating and sealing the source of the leak: the coal chute.
All of the suggestions and advice I've received in this thread make me think
that might be the best approach, all considered. So thanks, everyone.


Donna

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:27:35 GMT, "Donna"
wrote:



I have an image that your low spot is only 2 or 3 inches lower than
the rest of the floor and only 3 to 4 feet across. You havent' said,
so that's my image. If that is the case, the sump pump will run for 4
or 5 seconds and remove all the water around it, and then wait until
more gathers. Wouldn't that mean that parts of the rest of the floor
are also wet. Maybe they dry out faster after the rain stops, so that
part of the floor doesn't bother you.

Actually, the low spot is where the coal chute enters, and the water
gathers. Sealing the chute seems to be the first step, *then* if that
doesn't solve the water problem (along with repairing the door or putting a
lip on the outside edge to keep water from running under the door. Gee,
can't wait to trip over that coming into the basement.


I can't picture this area, but there is bound to be a way to dig it
out, or seal it without digging it out without earth moving equipment.
There are millions? of coal chutes that have been sealed after they
aren't used, maybe just with a piece of wood or metal plate screwed
on** and the edges caulked, but again, I have no real image of the
situation in my head.

**Or some sheet metal formed into a box cover, by folding at the
corners, sort of like wrapping paper is wrapped around a gift box.
Again, I have no image.

I can't really describe it -- it was such a bear to make *any* progress
excavating it by hand, that I never was able to make enough headway to be
certain about what i was looking at. What I really need is something like
an really durable Archemedes Screw insert off-color joke of your choice
here to get the coal and dirt and rocks out of the hole. A small backhoe
won't do it. Nothing I can seem to rent is small enough and stable enough
to get into that corner and dig that coal out.

ARen't you losing heat through this 12 x 12 inch hole? Again, my
image of a coal chute.

Yes, lots. I'm less concerned with that than with the water draining into
the basement room, though. One problem at a time.

Donna

On Mar 23, 9:11 am, "Harry K" wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:47 am, "Lawrence" wrote:





On Mar 23, 4:01 am, mm wrote:

On 22 Mar 2007 15:56:14 -0700, "Lawrence"
wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message

How hard is it to install a sump pump? Is that a job for a pro, or can I
do
it with power tools? We have a fieldstone basement, with a cement
floor.
There is no well yet, just a low spot that collects water.

This is a serious job to build a drywell in your basement especially
since should have been done before pouring the floor. A bit of major
remodeling will be required including some brutal manual labor not to
mention the plumbing and exavation for the pump and line. An
experienced plumbing company would be best cause you really need a

I thought you meant an experience plumbing company, as opposed to a
minimally experienced one, and that the OP's doing it herself was out
of the question.

What I meant is open to quite alot of interpretation, isn't it?? I
never said doing it your self was out of the question, never. The
reason you are confused is because I answered the question simply and
directly without adding any extra information. More posters should
do the same, ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Attacking my posts serves nothing. This person has already admitted
that this is beyond her ability. This makes my answer a correct one.
Some people seem to think that if the pros on TV can do it then anyone
can. That is simply rubbish.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Anyone who is not handicapped is perfectly capable of breaking a hole
in a concrete floor by renting a rotohammer. That some people are
afraid of a little manual labor does not affect that. The OP sounds
like she was scared off by the doom-n-gloom guys.

You have a point about correctly installing the drain leading to the
pit but it takes nothing at all to install a sump pit/pump/exhaust
pipe.

Oh man, you are so clever. Is your handicapped employee also going to
be able to dig the pit? Will he/she also be able to carry the
concrete and dirt up the stairs in buckets to a waiting dumpster??
Instead of sarcasm why don't you try giving good advice?? The OP has
said it is beyond her ability after listening to all of our posts.
Give it a rest.

"Donna" wrote in message
news:vkUMh.140$E46.6@trndny09...

Thanks again for all of your input and advice. I'm leaning towards
spending money on a pro to put in the sump pump and drains, and investing
my energy in excavating and sealing the source of the leak: the coal
chute. All of the suggestions and advice I've received in this thread make
me think that might be the best approach, all considered. So thanks,
everyone.



If you eliminate the primary source you may not need the sump pump at all.

I intended to try and find an illustration of coal chute such as you
described and have not done so yet.

We went through this about 2 years ago. Around here coal chutes were metal
doors in the wall. The bottom had rusted out. I used cement blocks for
the structure and applied a stone veneer to match the existing stone as
closely as possible. No water in over 2 years.


Colbyt

I can't really describe it -- it was such a bear to make *any* progress
excavating it by hand, that I never was able to make enough headway to be
certain about what i was looking at. What I really need is something like
an really durable Archemedes Screw insert off-color joke of your choice
here to get the coal and dirt and rocks out of the hole. A small backhoe
won't do it. Nothing I can seem to rent is small enough and stable enough
to get into that corner and dig that coal out.

It's funny you asked for a screw because there is something like that
called an auger and it is indeed shaped like a screw. They are used
to drill holes of any diameter in soil for fence posts and pole
buildings. The large ones can be mounted to a machine (Bobcat). One
and two person models are also available. Ice fishermen use the small
ones to drill through the ice. All can be rented. Better to have a
backhoe.

It may be possible for you to auger a hole as close as you can get or
maybe several holes. Although you would have to finish the dig by
hand it it would at least get the work started anyway. Four to six
feet is the maximum depth for the augers I have seen. Better to have
a backhoe.

If you have to excavate the coal chute anyway then it should be
possible for the sump line to exit the house in the same ditch. The
excavation for the sump line can far exceed the size of the sump it
can be a big deal.

If you can extend the ditch to where the sump line can exit the soil
then problem solved. Best practice would have the ditch go dowhill
from where it exits the house but depending on your situation you
might be able to cheat on this.

On Mar 23, 12:17 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
On Mar 23, 9:11 am, "Harry K" wrote:





snip

Anyone who is not handicapped is perfectly capable of breaking a hole
in a concrete floor by renting a rotohammer. That some people are
afraid of a little manual labor does not affect that. The OP sounds
like she was scared off by the doom-n-gloom guys.

You have a point about correctly installing the drain leading to the
pit but it takes nothing at all to install a sump pit/pump/exhaust
pipe.

Oh man, you are so clever. Is your handicapped employee also going to
be able to dig the pit? Will he/she also be able to carry the
concrete and dirt up the stairs in buckets to a waiting dumpster??
Instead of sarcasm why don't you try giving good advice?? The OP has
said it is beyond her ability after listening to all of our posts.
Give it a rest.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You have a weird idea of what sarcasm is and where in the world did
you see anything about a handicapped person doing it? I specifically
excluded them.

Yes, she did say it was beyond her and that is a good reason but it
seems it is because of her knowledge of plumbing etc, not the physical
work.

What is so hard about carrying a few cubic feet of dirt/concrete up a
set of stairs? You only put in the buckets what you can carry at one
shot be it 200 lbs or 10 pounds, it disappears.

You seem to terribly hung up on needing to justify your viewpoint. I
wondered with your first post if you were perhaps a contractor.

Harry K

On Mar 23, 10:42 am, "Donna" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 23, 5:47 am, "Lawrence" wrote:
On Mar 23, 4:01 am, mm wrote:
Anyone who is not handicapped is perfectly capable of breaking a hole
in a concrete floor by renting a rotohammer. That some people are
afraid of a little manual labor does not affect that. The OP sounds
like she was scared off by the doom-n-gloom guys.

You have a point about correctly installing the drain leading to the
pit but it takes nothing at all to install a sump pit/pump/exhaust
pipe.

Just to clarify: it sounds to me that doing this correctly, which seems to
involve a significant amount of plumbing, is beyond my abilities. If I
have to hire a plumber to install drainage, I might as well get one guy to
do the whole thing. Not that you asked, but... I'm pretty good at
holes. I'm lousy at plumbing *in* holes. Sadly, Bob Vila, I'm not.

Thanks again for all of your input and advice. I'm leaning towards
spending money on a pro to put in the sump pump and drains, and investing my
energy in excavating and sealing the source of the leak: the coal chute.
All of the suggestions and advice I've received in this thread make me think
that might be the best approach, all considered. So thanks, everyone.

Donna

Very good reasons not to attempt it but I was referring only to
digging the hole and sticking a hose out to somewhere. The proper
installation after the hole does take knowledge/experience. If you
are hiring a job done, they might as well do the entire thing as
digging the hole is the least part of the job.

Harry K