Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.


About the same as 2 or 3 new cars.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:PTBJh.15600$d8.4232@trndny07...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.


About the same as 2 or 3 new cars.


Could be even more!

On Mar 13, 1:25�pm, "Rich" wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

news:PTBJh.15600$d8.4232@trndny07...



wrote in message
oups.com...
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? *I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. *Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? *What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? *Thanks.

About the same as 2 or 3 new cars.

Could be even more!

cost depends on the existing structure of your home. newer homes are
frequently lighter built, which would mean more structural upgrades.

a truss roof home would be much worse than a regular home.

I have a friend who did this, it was messy living in hoime during
construction.

plus how much of the existing floorplan will change? if you want to
reconfigure a bunch costs will be more.

On 13 Mar 2007 10:55:19 -0700, wrote:

Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.


I'd be mildly surprised if it worked out particularly different
from building a new addition on the side. And what difference
there is, I'd expect to be higher rather than lower.
Building up is more a response to a constraint on the footprint
of the building than to money.

Before you even start to answer this question, you have to get an
engineer out to look at the foundation and footings under the house.
Many ranches (mine included) just do not have the foundation strength
to hold up a second floor. They also need to see if the bearing walls
will handle the extra load, along with details like roof construction
(trusses versus rafters). Remember, you're doubling the weight on your
foundation and lower level walls. If they can't handle it, you have a
showstopper problem.

Then there's the whole issue of HVAC, electrical, etc. Do these
subsystems need to be overhauled for the extra load, or will your
furnace handle a new zone or two? That's the difference between $1K
for some new ducts or baseboards and $10K for a whole new system.

Bottom line, get an engineer (or an engineering capable builder) out
to look over everything first and work up some numbers. There's no way
to estimate even to within a factor of 2 without knowing these things.

On Mar 13, 1:55 pm, wrote:
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.

Be VERY careful about this. Many downsides:

1/ Where will you live during construction? (What if the contractor(s) is
late in completion?)
2/ Storage costs and transportation costs for your belongings.
3/ Your floor plan will be compromised; perhaps severely.
4/ You might overload the existing structure and footings.
5/ Have you sketched the elevation views? (They might not be to your
liking).
6/ Code requirements? Neighborhood covenants? (Potential lawsuits?)

It has been done successfully, but is a very non-trivial project. Be
careful and cautious. I went through this years ago and quickly decided to
move. Good luck, in any case.

Excellent advice. We were in the same place not long ago. There was no
easy way to add on to our house, so it was either a second story or add a
basement. (the house had neither)
Adding a second story was out of the question, not only from a cost
standpoint, but the footings would not have handled the extra load. We
seriously looked into putting a basement under it. We almost did it, but
the housemover wanted $12,000 to lift the house 36" and set it back down AND
I had to do all the work. Work meaning get everything ready for the lift -
he only lifts the house and nothing more.

In the end, it was less hassle to build a new house with basement - which is
what we ended up doing.






"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
ups.com...
Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.

Be VERY careful about this. Many downsides:

1/ Where will you live during construction? (What if the contractor(s) is
late in completion?)
2/ Storage costs and transportation costs for your belongings.
3/ Your floor plan will be compromised; perhaps severely.
4/ You might overload the existing structure and footings.
5/ Have you sketched the elevation views? (They might not be to your
liking).
6/ Code requirements? Neighborhood covenants? (Potential lawsuits?)

It has been done successfully, but is a very non-trivial project. Be
careful and cautious. I went through this years ago and quickly decided
to move. Good luck, in any case.

wrote in message
ups.com...
| Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
| that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
| way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
| as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.
|

on average it would be $150 per sq. ft. in Massachusetts anyway.

I can't help with the costs, except to state that they will be *way* higher
than first anticipated :-) I am just finishing up this same type of project on
my house. In my case I only expanded the back third of the house into a two
story portion, although I completely razed the existing hip roof structure on
the remaining part and rebuilt with a much higher pitched gable roof to look
better against the new two story part. So my house now has a split level look.

In addition to all the good comments, I might add one more that may not be
obvious. Your present ceiling joists will not work at all for the floor
structure for the second story. So the entire ceiling structure will have to
come off in addition to the present roof. In other words, for a while you will
be living in a house with just walls, nothing on top but the sky. You could
leave the old ceiling structure in place and add new joists on top, but that
raises the height of everything.

--
Dennis

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:06:24 -0500, "J.A. Michel"
wrote:

Excellent advice. We were in the same place not long ago. There was no
easy way to add on to our house, so it was either a second story or add a
basement. (the house had neither)
Adding a second story was out of the question, not only from a cost
standpoint, but the footings would not have handled the extra load. We
seriously looked into putting a basement under it. We almost did it, but
the housemover wanted $12,000 to lift the house 36" and set it back down AND
I had to do all the work. Work meaning get everything ready for the lift -
he only lifts the house and nothing more.

In the end, it was less hassle to build a new house with basement - which is
what we ended up doing.

If you make the second story bigger than the lower one, you can
support it on posts that are completely independant of the
first floor foundations. This will not, of course, look
like any other house in the neighborhood, so it takes
a fair amount of self-confidence.

When you say a "truss roof" will be much worse than a regular home, what
does that mean? If you have a truss roof system, is it not possible to
add a second story? If it is possible, does it cost twice as much as if
you have a "regular home"?

I'm interested in this discussion, as we are trying to figure out if we
should add a second floor to our ranch house, or add on to the
side/back. Our main issue for wanting to "go up" is to get a "view".

Cathy


wrote:
On Mar 13, 1:25�pm, "Rich" wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

news:PTBJh.15600$d8.4232@trndny07...




wrote in message
groups.com...

Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? ?I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. ?Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? ?What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? ?Thanks.

About the same as 2 or 3 new cars.

Could be even more!


cost depends on the existing structure of your home. newer homes are
frequently lighter built, which would mean more structural upgrades.

a truss roof home would be much worse than a regular home.

I have a friend who did this, it was messy living in hoime during
construction.

plus how much of the existing floorplan will change? if you want to
reconfigure a bunch costs will be more.

Or as a response to get a better view of the water..... which is why we
are interested in adding a second story to our ranch house.

Cathy

Goedjn wrote:
On 13 Mar 2007 10:55:19 -0700, wrote:


Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.



I'd be mildly surprised if it worked out particularly different
from building a new addition on the side. And what difference
there is, I'd expect to be higher rather than lower.
Building up is more a response to a constraint on the footprint
of the building than to money.

Andrew Duane wrote:
Before you even start to answer this question, you have to get an
engineer out to look at the foundation and footings under the house.
Many ranches (mine included) just do not have the foundation strength
to hold up a second floor.

Can you not beef up the foundation possibly? We have a crawl space, and
I was thinking that you should be able to add more piers to handle the
additional weight. Or is that wishful thinking?

They also need to see if the bearing walls
will handle the extra load, along with details like roof construction
(trusses versus rafters). Remember, you're doubling the weight on your
foundation and lower level walls. If they can't handle it, you have a
showstopper problem.

What if you want to only place a second floor over a portion of the
ranch house? Could you build piers/foundation to handle only that
portion of the house, and leave the remaining foundation as is?


Then there's the whole issue of HVAC, electrical, etc. Do these
subsystems need to be overhauled for the extra load, or will your
furnace handle a new zone or two? That's the difference between $1K
for some new ducts or baseboards and $10K for a whole new system.

Bottom line, get an engineer (or an engineering capable builder) out
to look over everything first and work up some numbers. There's no way
to estimate even to within a factor of 2 without knowing these things.

On Mar 13, 1:55 pm, wrote:

Can someone tell me how much this generally costs? I have a ranch
that I would like to renovate by adding a second floor. Is there a
way to estimate it per square foot? What hidden costs are there (such
as architect fees, permit fees, and etc.)? Thanks.

When you say "way higher", are you referencing the "bids" you received
vs. the actual cost in the end?

Can you post some pictures of the before/after? Do you have a website
possibly?

I currently live in a 1980's ranch house with a hip roof (and the roof
is truss). We'd like to maintain the hip roof look with wide overhangs
(kind of Frank Lloyd Wright Prairie Style) with placing a second story
over part of the ranch (set back from all sides - second story would not
line up with outside walls). What we have been unable to determine is
if it's even possible, or if it's just alot of money.

The last builder we talked to (who has done second story additions)
would not even give us a ballpark figure, basically came back with a
different floor plan that added a garage with a room over it, and then
expanded out the first floor. All he would say is that it would be ALOT
of money.... Is alot of money $100K, $200K, $500K????

Anything you can share from your experience would be greatly appreciated.

Cathy


DT wrote:
I can't help with the costs, except to state that they will be *way* higher
than first anticipated :-) I am just finishing up this same type of project on
my house. In my case I only expanded the back third of the house into a two
story portion, although I completely razed the existing hip roof structure on
the remaining part and rebuilt with a much higher pitched gable roof to look
better against the new two story part. So my house now has a split level look.

In addition to all the good comments, I might add one more that may not be
obvious. Your present ceiling joists will not work at all for the floor
structure for the second story. So the entire ceiling structure will have to
come off in addition to the present roof. In other words, for a while you will
be living in a house with just walls, nothing on top but the sky. You could
leave the old ceiling structure in place and add new joists on top, but that
raises the height of everything.

wrote in message
...

Or as a response to get a better view of the water..... which is why we
are interested in adding a second story to our ranch house.

Cathy

OK, that is a different scenario that leaves a lot of options. If the house
cannot take a full second story, it may be possible to bump out one section
and add some sort of sitting area. Visualize a dormer type of thing,
perhaps with some protrusion over the side with outside supports or columns.

Spiral staircase to a love nest!

In article , lid says...

When you say "way higher", are you referencing the "bids" you received
vs. the actual cost in the end?
Can you post some pictures of the before/after?
Anything you can share from your experience would be greatly appreciated.

Cathy


OK, I put up a few pictures. My case will be much different from yours. Except
for the original demolition and rough framing, I did everything myself, single
handed, from trenching over 200 feet of sewer lines, installing the plumbing,
electrical, and HVAC, roofing, siding, even carrying 40 sheets of drywall
upstairs and around the corner! It's just the way I like to do things, and I
have the background to do it. I retired last year and this was my hobby for
quite awhile to ease myself into retirement. I'm a retired engineer so I do all
my own designs, calculations, and blueprints (by hand, no cad program) with one
professional sign-off on a non-standard part of my roof framing.

For the demo and rough framing I had help from my son and one or two day
laborers as required. I used them for only about a week, by that time we were
dried in. My city has very strict building requirements, a full schedule of
inspections covering 22 areas was required. Plus, since it was an extensive
remodel, the entire house had to come up to code including meeting the strict
Model Energy Code for energy efficiency. I passed every inspection the first
time except for one change that had to be made to the existing portion of the
waste system.

My original house was a 80 year old cottage that was added onto twice in its
life. It had a ugly roof line, the original hip roof and two very shallow
pitched additions. It had three layers of siding - the original Dutch lap,
Insulbrick from the 1940's, and finally cedar wall shingles. I removed the
outer two layers and resided with vinyl Dutch lap siding. Total size was 1060
square feet. The inside is nice, I've been remodeling for 15 years, Corian
kitchen, vaulted pine ceilings.

We inspected the original footers to make sure they would carry a two story
load, they were up to code in width. A bit more shallow then is now code in my
area, but no heaving in 80 years. To begin with I added a 4 foot wide
foundation to accommodate the stairway.

Then we tore down the back third of the house, a 24 x 13 foot section. We took
it down all the way to the block foundation, since the walls needed to match
the height of the remaining structure and it was simply better to start over
from scratch. Framed the new walls, which are now 28 x 13 because of the width
of the new stairway. Framed the second story, 28 x 14 feet (one foot overhang
to accommodate the length of the stairway). Then tore off the complete roof
structure of the remainder of the home, 30 x 25 feet. Framed the new roof
structure - quickly! We lived under a giant blue tarp for a few days until
dried in.

Then I just started in one job at a time. As you can see, I added a 54 foot
long porch around two sides, with a Trex deck with fluted columns. The upstairs
addition is a master bedroom suite, of 400 square feet. Bamboo hardwood
flooring for the bedroom, all marble bathroom with heated floors. All old
windows were replaced with LowE argon filled units, except for a few that I had
already changed. The walls are insulated to R 16 , the ceilings to R 30. This
is in northern Ohio, my gas bills this winter were no higher than before the
40% increase in area.

The final home size is 1514 square feet, up from the original 1060, plus the
54' x 6' porch.

Costs were very reasonable since I did it all myself. My draft budget was
$25,000, I came in at around $35,000. Yeah, a 40% overrun! Although I have
built several garages and small structures, there were lots of things I
overlooked on a more complex project.

Here are some pictures. Now, I'm no architect, but I like it and everyone that
hasn't been over in awhile thinks they are at the wrong address! I forgot to
take pictures before we started. In the ‘before shot' the old porch has been
removed and all the nice shrubs and bushes are gone, it wasn't as plain looking
as it seems. This summer I'll do the garage to match.

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp.../remodel01.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside01.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside02.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside03.jpg

--
Dennis

"DT" wrote in message
news:ENKdnbfagugY1WXYnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
In article , lid says...

When you say "way higher", are you referencing the "bids" you received
vs. the actual cost in the end?
Can you post some pictures of the before/after?
Anything you can share from your experience would be greatly appreciated.

Cathy


OK, I put up a few pictures. My case will be much different from yours.
Except
for the original demolition and rough framing, I did everything myself,
single
handed, from trenching over 200 feet of sewer lines, installing the
plumbing,
electrical, and HVAC, roofing, siding, even carrying 40 sheets of drywall
upstairs and around the corner! It's just the way I like to do things, and
I
have the background to do it. I retired last year and this was my hobby
for
quite awhile to ease myself into retirement. I'm a retired engineer so I
do all
my own designs, calculations, and blueprints (by hand, no cad program)
with one
professional sign-off on a non-standard part of my roof framing.

For the demo and rough framing I had help from my son and one or two day
laborers as required. I used them for only about a week, by that time we
were
dried in. My city has very strict building requirements, a full schedule
of
inspections covering 22 areas was required. Plus, since it was an
extensive
remodel, the entire house had to come up to code including meeting the
strict
Model Energy Code for energy efficiency. I passed every inspection the
first
time except for one change that had to be made to the existing portion of
the
waste system.

My original house was a 80 year old cottage that was added onto twice in
its
life. It had a ugly roof line, the original hip roof and two very shallow
pitched additions. It had three layers of siding - the original Dutch lap,
Insulbrick from the 1940's, and finally cedar wall shingles. I removed the
outer two layers and resided with vinyl Dutch lap siding. Total size was
1060
square feet. The inside is nice, I've been remodeling for 15 years, Corian
kitchen, vaulted pine ceilings.

We inspected the original footers to make sure they would carry a two
story
load, they were up to code in width. A bit more shallow then is now code
in my
area, but no heaving in 80 years. To begin with I added a 4 foot wide
foundation to accommodate the stairway.

Then we tore down the back third of the house, a 24 x 13 foot section. We
took
it down all the way to the block foundation, since the walls needed to
match
the height of the remaining structure and it was simply better to start
over
from scratch. Framed the new walls, which are now 28 x 13 because of the
width
of the new stairway. Framed the second story, 28 x 14 feet (one foot
overhang
to accommodate the length of the stairway). Then tore off the complete
roof
structure of the remainder of the home, 30 x 25 feet. Framed the new roof
structure - quickly! We lived under a giant blue tarp for a few days until
dried in.

Then I just started in one job at a time. As you can see, I added a 54
foot
long porch around two sides, with a Trex deck with fluted columns. The
upstairs
addition is a master bedroom suite, of 400 square feet. Bamboo hardwood
flooring for the bedroom, all marble bathroom with heated floors. All old
windows were replaced with LowE argon filled units, except for a few that
I had
already changed. The walls are insulated to R 16 , the ceilings to R 30.
This
is in northern Ohio, my gas bills this winter were no higher than before
the
40% increase in area.

The final home size is 1514 square feet, up from the original 1060, plus
the
54' x 6' porch.

Costs were very reasonable since I did it all myself. My draft budget was
$25,000, I came in at around $35,000. Yeah, a 40% overrun! Although I have
built several garages and small structures, there were lots of things I
overlooked on a more complex project.

Here are some pictures. Now, I'm no architect, but I like it and everyone
that
hasn't been over in awhile thinks they are at the wrong address! I forgot
to
take pictures before we started. In the 'before shot' the old porch has
been
removed and all the nice shrubs and bushes are gone, it wasn't as plain
looking
as it seems. This summer I'll do the garage to match.

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp.../remodel01.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside01.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside02.jpg

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~dthomp...eoutside03.jpg

--
Dennis


Very nice, looks great. Forgive me if I don't show it to my wife though

PV

In article , lid says...

Can you not beef up the foundation possibly? We have a crawl space, and
I was thinking that you should be able to add more piers to handle the
additional weight. Or is that wishful thinking?


Beefing up the present foundation would be extremely difficult if you are
talking about making the footers wider to lower the soil pressure to acceptable
levels. You would have to dig under the bottom of the footers and pour
additional concrete, yet maintain the undisturbed soil under the new concrete.

The foundation requirements for a simple two story house are not *necessarily*
any higher than a single story house, as long as the present foundations meet
the code. We went over this when I designed my project, and we simply had to
inspect the footers to determine that they were a full 16" wide for our soil
type. There was no higher spec for a foundation to support a two story house.
The concern would be that your present foundation doesn't meet the code at all,
and cannot handle the extra weight of the second story. I added 'necessarily'
because a non-standard two story design (like your proposal) can indeed require
different foundations.

You talked about adding piers, and that could be one solution, *providing* that
the piers are indeed handling the new loads. But most loads are in the
perimeter walls.


They also need to see if the bearing walls
will handle the extra load, along with details like roof construction
(trusses versus rafters). Remember, you're doubling the weight on your
foundation and lower level walls. If they can't handle it, you have a
showstopper problem.


Again, there are not necessarily higher requirements for the first floor
perimeter walls when they support upper floors - as long as the present walls
meet current codes. Current construction for lower walls uses 2x4's on 16"
centers with double top plates, whether there is one story or two. Headers over
large windows would need to be checked (in the past they were often framed with
lumber that would not adequately transfer the higher loads). But you must
determine if your present walls are to code. Interior load bearing walls can be
added if needed, although that may alter the layout of the first floor rooms
involved.


What if you want to only place a second floor over a portion of the
ranch house? Could you build piers/foundation to handle only that
portion of the house, and leave the remaining foundation as is?


That's certainly a possibility if I am picturing what you want to do. But it's
lots of digging in a confined space without being able to get machinery in to
do it. Lots of labor, and maybe hard to find someone willing to tackle it.


Then there's the whole issue of HVAC, electrical, etc. Do these
subsystems need to be overhauled for the extra load, or will your
furnace handle a new zone or two? That's the difference between $1K
for some new ducts or baseboards and $10K for a whole new system.


Agreed, and finding places to run new HVAC ducts can be quite a challenge in an
existing home. I had to tear out my brick chimney (it would have run through
the new upstairs bedroom) and replace it with a metal B vent chmney that could
be more easily made to jog around to get to a chase to run it through the
second floor.

Similarly, I had to give up part of one first floor bedroom to add a chase for
the heating ducts and returns.



Bottom line, get an engineer (or an engineering capable builder) out
to look over everything first and work up some numbers. There's no way
to estimate even to within a factor of 2 without knowing these things.

Yep.

--
Dennis