I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?

"higgledy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?

Sort of.

The grill must be made permanent by removing the wheels and lagging it down
to something, like the deck or patio. Then it has to be piped properly.
The tank must also be supported and cannot be confined, under a window, and
some other code issues. Once in place, you have to find a dealer that will
fill it. Some will not fill your tank, others will, so make a phone call
first.

Since you mention "your gas company" do you have propane now? If so, they
can hook the grill up to the existing tanks.

higgledy,

Here's something else to consider:
where I live, BJ's wholesale club charges $12.99 to members to fill a 20lb
tank.

I have a 200lb tank at my house that feeds my Hot tub heater and fireplace
gas log; the propane company charges me $3.79 a gallon, plus a 4 buck
delivery charge on top of that to deliver the propane. Other propane
customers pay their suppliers even more. My next door neighbor got charged 6
bucks/gallon on his last delivery, nut he uses much less propane than I do.

Because you bring your tank in yourself, (the 20lb'er) you pay less. Are you
looking to bring the 100 lb tank yourself to the propane dealer to get
filed?

Bob


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"higgledy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?

Sort of.

The grill must be made permanent by removing the wheels and lagging it
down to something, like the deck or patio. Then it has to be piped
properly. The tank must also be supported and cannot be confined, under a
window, and some other code issues. Once in place, you have to find a
dealer that will fill it. Some will not fill your tank, others will, so
make a phone call first.

Since you mention "your gas company" do you have propane now? If so, they
can hook the grill up to the existing tanks.

A 100# tank weighs more like 150-160# filled. I have a pair of 50#
(12.5 gallons each) that I could hook up to a grill, though I only run
a fish cooker from one at a time.
Check what the refill prices for 40, 50 and 100 pound tanks are to see
where the economy lies. The 40# must have an OPD while the 50 and 100
do not as they are more for commercial use.

On 22 Feb 2007 18:47:12 -0800, "higgledy" wrote:

I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?

Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. (Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

In article , tkendr01
@yahoo.com says...
A 100# tank weighs more like 150-160# filled. I have a pair of 50#
(12.5 gallons each) that I could hook up to a grill, though I only run
a fish cooker from one at a time.
Check what the refill prices for 40, 50 and 100 pound tanks are to see
where the economy lies. The 40# must have an OPD while the 50 and 100
do not as they are more for commercial use.

On 22 Feb 2007 18:47:12 -0800, "higgledy" wrote:

I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?

On Feb 23, 9:55�pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. *In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? *It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. *A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. *(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

In article , tkendr01
@yahoo.com says...



A 100# tank weighs more like 150-160# filled. I have a pair of 50#
(12.5 gallons each) that I could hook up to a grill, though I only run
a fish cooker from one at a time.
Check what the refill prices for 40, 50 and 100 pound tanks are to see
where the economy lies. The 40# must have an OPD while the 50 and 100
do not as they are more for commercial use.

On 22 Feb 2007 18:47:12 -0800, "higgledy" wrote:

I saw these 100lbs propane tanks at Costco, I'd love get one hooked up
to my grill then get regular service from my gas company. *Is it
within code for a plumber to connect a 100lbs tank to my grill?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

In article om,
says...
On Feb 23, 9:55ï¿=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. *In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? *It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. *A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. *(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) But that's beside the point.
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Make sure it's not prevented by code where your living, I can use the
smaller ones but can't have a permanet one.
Craig

On Feb 23, 10:57�pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55ï¿=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. *In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? *It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. *A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. *(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. *I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) *The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) *But that's beside the point. *
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. *However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. *And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.

On Feb 24, 10:24 am, " wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:57?pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:



In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55?=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. ?In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? ?It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. ?A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. ?(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. ?I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) ?The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) ?But that's beside the point. ?
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. ?However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. ?And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

What am I missing? What is an 'effective BTU'? As I understand it, a
BTU is, essentially, a unit of heat energy. This means that a BTU is
a BTU, regardless of the source. Granted, there are fewer BTUs per
volume of natural gas when compared with propane, but that's accounted
for in the bigger orifices that are used with NG. A higher volume of
NG is delivered to the burners so that the number of BTUs is
approximately the same with either fuel.

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

I suspect that Sears gets back so many grills for poor performance
because they sell so many poor performing grills. The natural gas
thing is simply a handy excuse.

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Most stores stock most models of most grills in propane because that's
what most people want. It makes no sense to stock models that people
aren't buying. If you want to buy a NG grill, it typically has to be
ordered. Some of the higher end models come with a conversion kit -
not unlike most kitchen ranges.

Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.

wrote:


Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

Its understandable, big box stores are typically clueless and would make
a nonsense claim like "effective BTUs". NG is lower pressure and
density and proper attention must be paid to piping.



To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Sounds like a typical clueless big box store.


Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.

On Feb 24, 12:25�pm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:24 am, " wrote:





On Feb 23, 10:57?pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55?=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. ?In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? ?It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. ?A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. ?(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it..)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. ?I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) ?The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) ?But that's beside the point. ?
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. ?However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. ?And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

What am I missing? *What is an 'effective BTU'? *As I understand it, a
BTU is, essentially, a unit of heat energy. *This means that a BTU is
a BTU, regardless of the source. *Granted, there are fewer BTUs per
volume of natural gas when compared with propane, but that's accounted
for in the bigger orifices that are used with NG. *A higher volume of
NG is delivered to the burners so that the number of BTUs is
approximately the same with either fuel.

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

I suspect that Sears gets back so many grills for poor performance
because they sell so many poor performing grills. *The natural gas
thing is simply a handy excuse.

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Most stores stock most models of most grills in propane because that's
what most people want. *It makes no sense to stock models that people
aren't buying. *If you want to buy a NG grill, it typically has to be
ordered. *Some of the higher end models come with a conversion kit -
not unlike most kitchen ranges.



Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.

check multi fuel engines, their horsepower is always more using
propane

sears sells some very high end grills, costing over a grand. the
trouble isnt design its heat energy in natural gas.

but since this came up I will ask some other groups, just to clarify
things

wrote in message
No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.
sears sells some very high end grills, costing over a grand. the
trouble isnt design its heat energy in natural gas.
but since this came up I will ask some other groups, just to clarify
things


I just randomly picked a gas range for home use to see comparisons. From
what I'm reading here, as well as when I bought our range some years ago,
propane puts out about 1000 Btu less per burner than natural gas.
http://www.kitchenaid.com/assets/pdf...LL/9763460.pdf Take a
look at the BTU specs on pages 15 and 16.

This may be a design situation when converting a range as compared to
converting a grill, but the ideal is the same. Change of orfices and
regulator on some, but burner remains the same. I was not able to readily
find any mention of Btu output differences for converting a grill.

In article .com,
says...
On Feb 24, 12:25ï¿=3Fpm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:24 am, " wrote:

On Feb 23, 10:57?pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55?=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. ?In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? ?It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. ?A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. ?(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. ?I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) ?The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) ?But that's beside the point. ?
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. ?However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. ?And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

What am I missing? *What is an 'effective BTU'? *As I understand it, a
BTU is, essentially, a unit of heat energy. *This means that a BTU is
a BTU, regardless of the source. *Granted, there are fewer BTUs per
volume of natural gas when compared with propane, but that's accounted
for in the bigger orifices that are used with NG. *A higher volume of
NG is delivered to the burners so that the number of BTUs is
approximately the same with either fuel.

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

I suspect that Sears gets back so many grills for poor performance
because they sell so many poor performing grills. *The natural gas
thing is simply a handy excuse.

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Most stores stock most models of most grills in propane because that's
what most people want. *It makes no sense to stock models that people
aren't buying. *If you want to buy a NG grill, it typically has to be
ordered. *Some of the higher end models come with a conversion kit -
not unlike most kitchen ranges.

Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.- Hide quoted text -

No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.

check multi fuel engines, their horsepower is always more using
propane

That's interesting but irrelevant. We're comparing the BTU ratings
of gas grills.

sears sells some very high end grills, costing over a grand.

I've seen some TEC grills at their Great Indoors - that's about as
close to high end as I've seen at Sears. (I guess it all depends on
how you define "very high end grills".)

the trouble isnt design its heat energy in natural gas.

That's why NG requires bigger orifices than propane. You need to
adjust the quantity of fuel delivered to the burners according to the
fuel you're burning.

but since this came up I will ask some other groups, just to clarify
things

In article .com,
says...

No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.

Here's a link to a chart listing the size of orifice needed for a
desired BTU rating for each type of fuel.

http://www.grillparts.com/howto/btu_guide.htm

(the numbers are drill sizes - a higher number indicates a smaller
hole)

On Feb 25, 7:55 pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article .com,
says...



On Feb 24, 12:25ï¿=3Fpm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:24 am, " wrote:

On Feb 23, 10:57?pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55?=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. ?In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? ?It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. ?A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. ?(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. ?I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) ?The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) ?But that's beside the point. ?
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. ?However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. ?And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

What am I missing? What is an 'effective BTU'? As I understand it, a
BTU is, essentially, a unit of heat energy. This means that a BTU is
a BTU, regardless of the source. Granted, there are fewer BTUs per
volume of natural gas when compared with propane, but that's accounted
for in the bigger orifices that are used with NG. A higher volume of
NG is delivered to the burners so that the number of BTUs is
approximately the same with either fuel.

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

I suspect that Sears gets back so many grills for poor performance
because they sell so many poor performing grills. The natural gas
thing is simply a handy excuse.

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Most stores stock most models of most grills in propane because that's
what most people want. It makes no sense to stock models that people
aren't buying. If you want to buy a NG grill, it typically has to be
ordered. Some of the higher end models come with a conversion kit -
not unlike most kitchen ranges.

Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.- Hide quoted text -

No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.

check multi fuel engines, their horsepower is always more using
propane

That's interesting but irrelevant. We're comparing the BTU ratings
of gas grills.

sears sells some very high end grills, costing over a grand.

I've seen some TEC grills at their Great Indoors - that's about as
close to high end as I've seen at Sears. (I guess it all depends on
how you define "very high end grills".)

the trouble isnt design its heat energy in natural gas.

That's why NG requires bigger orifices than propane. You need to
adjust the quantity of fuel delivered to the burners according to the
fuel you're burning.

but since this came up I will ask some other groups, just to clarify
things

says...



On Feb 24, 12:25ï¿=3Fpm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:24 am, " wrote:

On Feb 23, 10:57?pm, Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article om,
says...

On Feb 23, 9:55?=3Fpm, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but since you're considering a
100# tank, I'll assume that portability is not a requirement. ?In
that case, why not simply convert the grill to natural gas? ?It's
much cheaper than propane, *far* more convenient, and you'll never
run out in the middle of a cookout. ?A conversion kit should be
available from the grill manufacturer and would likely consist of
replacement orifice(s), a hose, and maybe a regulator. ?(Of course,
if NG is not available where you live, then forget I mentioned it.)

natural gas has fewer BTUs, newer grills espically may lack that sear
effect of high temperature

My NG grill has an infrared burner that the manufacturer claims
reaches 1500F in 5 minutes. ?I don't know if it'll do 1500, but
whatever it's doing is far more than I need for everything but the
good steaks :-) ?The 1/4" SS grates actually glow slightly when it's
pre-heated (no sear deficiency here!) ?But that's beside the point. ?
The Natural gas orifices are bigger, which allows the burners to
achieve the same BTU rating as they do with propane.

I watched for friends and neighbors discarding old 20 pound propane
tanks, available at no cost.

Then swapped them at home depot for new style valve tank. A couple
tanks were pretty rusty, i cleaned the heavy rust off those and gave
them some cheap white spray paint. so home depot wouldnt complain

I stopped after 6 tanks, dont really need that many. But hey basically
free

Now i GET THEM REFILLED AT LOCAL GAS STATION, cheaper than exchange

No question about that. ?However, while I don't have any numbers,
natural gas is still far cheaper than propane, even if the tanks were
'free'. ?And, as I said, WRT convenience, there's simply no
comparison.

Ahh natural gas even with proper orfices has fewer effective
BTUs......

What am I missing? What is an 'effective BTU'? As I understand it, a
BTU is, essentially, a unit of heat energy. This means that a BTU is
a BTU, regardless of the source. Granted, there are fewer BTUs per
volume of natural gas when compared with propane, but that's accounted
for in the bigger orifices that are used with NG. A higher volume of
NG is delivered to the burners so that the number of BTUs is
approximately the same with either fuel.

A good friend handles return merchandise for Sears, and states they
get back so many natural gas grills for poor performance because NG
has fewer BTUs

I suspect that Sears gets back so many grills for poor performance
because they sell so many poor performing grills. The natural gas
thing is simply a handy excuse.

To discourage purchase most models are now only stocked in propane.

Most stores stock most models of most grills in propane because that's
what most people want. It makes no sense to stock models that people
aren't buying. If you want to buy a NG grill, it typically has to be
ordered. Some of the higher end models come with a conversion kit -
not unlike most kitchen ranges.

Yeah natural gas is way more convenient and cheaper if its available
in your neighbiorhood.- Hide quoted text -

No the total heat output of a NG grill is never as much as the same
grill using propane.

check multi fuel engines, their horsepower is always more using
propane

That's interesting but irrelevant. We're comparing the BTU ratings
of gas grills.

sears sells some very high end grills, costing over a grand.

I've seen some TEC grills at their Great Indoors - that's about as
close to high end as I've seen at Sears. (I guess it all depends on
how you define "very high end grills".)

the trouble isnt design its heat energy in natural gas.

That's why NG requires bigger orifices than propane. You need to
adjust the quantity of fuel delivered to the burners according to the
fuel you're burning.

Actually, it's a combination of orifice size and valve. In most cases
(at least on the higher end grills), the valves are adjustable.
Combined with the proper size orifice, this allows a grill to be setup
for whichever gas you prefer. This is why a grill's BTU rating is
typically not qualified by fuel type. A grill rated at, say, 60,000
BTUs will deliver 60,000 BTUs whether you're burning NG or propane,
provided that it's correctly configured for the fuel that you're
burning. This means that they will be equally hot (or equally
inadequate) when cooking. (And 60,000 BTU of NG has exactly the same
heat energy as 60,000 BTU of propane. Look up BTU and you'll
understand.)