Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric pump
down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at
ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At least I HOPE it's
not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground level
"pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the handle up and
then flip the switch to start the electric pump and pump the water.
After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump" handle down and shut
off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the electric,
detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN. An hour
later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at the "pump" was
frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position and won't budge.
No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for
almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the
ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the
well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did
cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were
refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to
thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at
least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A
plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for
almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the
ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the
well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did
cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were
refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to
thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at
least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A
plumber?

Since you left water in the outer pump, there would be water in the line
from the pump back. Can the pump be removed? If so, take it off and take
it inside to thaw and you can then work on the rest of the piping if need
be. It is also possible that the freezing cracked the pump housing and it
will not work or will leak.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
. net:


"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch
for almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the
top of the ground level pump since no water would have been pushing
upward from the well without the electric running, right? But I had
no luck. It did cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving
direct heat were refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed.
What do I need to do to thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep
freeze here for another week at least. Do I need to call in
professional help? Who do I call? A plumber?

Since you left water in the outer pump, there would be water in the
line from the pump back. Can the pump be removed? If so, take it off
and take it inside to thaw and you can then work on the rest of the
piping if need be. It is also possible that the freezing cracked the
pump housing and it will not work or will leak.





Oh, good grief.

I have no idea if the pump can be removed.

Please tell me I didn't damage the electrical pump down in the well.
PLEASE.

What a nightmare. Especially since when I was removing the hose I made a
mental note to put the handle down and THEN FORGOT ALL ABOUT IT. *groan*

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level. It may just be a
shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe and into
the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe and in the
housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with the pump. The
pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as well and need the
torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down the well. Tie a rope to it
before you disconnect it. If you can't do it yourself, I'd call well people
first,before plumbers



"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric pump
down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at
ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At least I HOPE it's
not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground level
"pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the handle up and
then flip the switch to start the electric pump and pump the water.
After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump" handle down and shut
off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the electric,
detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN. An hour
later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at the "pump" was
frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position and won't budge.
No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for
almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the
ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the
well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did
cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were
refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to
thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at
least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A
plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It may just
be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe
and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe
and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with
the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as
well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down
the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do
it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think my
torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp house
around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't work,
then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.

Now you're cookin, (figuratively) that makes more sense. The tent idea
sounds good. I hope you're not in Chicago where it's supposed to be 30
below. Good luck



"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It may just
be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe
and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe
and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with
the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as
well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down
the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do
it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think
my
torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp
house
around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't
work,
then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.

On Feb 4, 5:33 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric pump
down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at
ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At least I HOPE it's
not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground level
"pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the handle up and
then flip the switch to start the electric pump and pump the water.
After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump" handle down and shut
off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the electric,
detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN. An hour
later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at the "pump" was
frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position and won't budge.
No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for
almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the
ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the
well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did
cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were
refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to
thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at
least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A
plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

You apparently have a submersible pump with a ground level antifreeze
spigot, Which drains when you put the handle down, which you forgotand
therefor it froze. You need to just thraw the pipes out in however
manner you can. An electric heater wire made for just such , might do
the trick. But just thaw it out and then remember to drain that spigot
each time you use it, DO YOU HEAR????
Jack

On Feb 4, 7:32 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Now you're cookin, (figuratively) that makes more sense. The tent idea
sounds good. I hope you're not in Chicago where it's supposed to be 30
below. Good luck

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It may just
be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe
and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe
and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with
the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as
well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down
the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do
it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think
my
torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp
house
around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't
work,
then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.

What do you mean by the electric pump in the well? If it is a shallow
well pump in some sort of a pit, it is possible that it froze as well.
Usually on those, the pressure switch freezes first and causes the
pump to stop operating. If you have such a pump, put a heat lamp on
it. If you have a submersible pump, it is unlikely to be damaged.
I'm surprised you haven't been able to thaw the spigot. Is this one of
the setups that has a pipe sticking out of the ground with an orange
handle that you pull up to turn the water on? I'd call that a
hydrant. Perhaps the ice blockage extends under the level of the
ground a bit. It shouldn't be a big deal to thaw the upper portion,
but thawing the blockage below the surface would take some doing. Put
a torch right on the pipe where it enters the ground. At any rate,
the fact that you left the handle up is a good thing, since as it
froze, the expanding water would have a place to go.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It may just
be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe
and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe
and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with
the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as
well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down
the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do
it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think
my
torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp
house
around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't
work,
then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.


try some electric blankets laid on the ground and over the spigot cover the
blankets on the ground w/ hay then cover the hay w/ a couple horse blankets
or tarps but NOT plastic.

mike........

In article , FragileWarrior wrote:
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It's called a freeze-proof hydrant. If this one's been damaged, that's what
you ask for when you go to replace it.

*That* is a lot of work, though. The water line will be 3 or 4 feet below
ground, and so obviously it takes a *lot* of digging to get down there.

Your best bet, actually, is to leave it alone until the weather warms up.
Unless you can build a shed around it, you're going to have a really tough
time getting it warm enough to thaw. Any damage that may be done by freezing
has already happened, and will not worsen by leaving it alone. Carry water for
the horses from the house with buckets.

Yes, it's a pain, but I've done it before, and you can too.

Our previous home was a mini-farm. We, too, had an outside well, and multiple
hydrants in the pasture and barn. We never had a hydrant freeze -- just the
main pipe from the pressure tank to the hydrants, that's all. The previous
owners hadn't taken very good care of things: the wellhead and pressure tank
were in a small shed that had no insulation, multiple holes in the siding, and
no heat source save a single 100W light bulb. We moved in in February, and the
dang thing was frozen solid. So we spent about a month schlepping water from
the house in 5-gallon buckets for the horses.

It's not fun. But it's doable.

As soon as the weather warmed up, I repaired the freeze damage, then tore the
shed down and built a new one -- with insulation, and a 400W electric heater.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Gerry Atrick wrote:

Actually, the "Shed" could be a steel 55 gallon drum with both ends
removed. Place the drum over the hydrant and put an electric space
heater inside. Cover the top with metal.

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a 55-gallon drum with only one end removed??

You're assuming, too, that a 55-gallon drum is long enough to cover the
hydrant. For most of the hydrants I've seen, that's not a correct assumption.

That'll thaw it. If the
drum is not high enough, oyt it on concrete blocks but be sure the
entire bottom is closed.

What you're forgetting is that by this time, the hydrant is surely frozen at
least a foot below the surface, too -- so the OP needs to thaw not only the
frozen hydrant, but frozen ground too.

I still think the best way to thaw it is to wait for warm weather -- although
on a sunny day, a 55-gallon drum, painted black, with one end closed, might do
the trick.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

anybody mention turning off the power?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Gerry Atrick
wrote:

Actually, the "Shed" could be a steel 55 gallon drum with both ends
removed. Place the drum over the hydrant and put an electric space
heater inside. Cover the top with metal.

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a 55-gallon drum with only one end removed??

You're assuming, too, that a 55-gallon drum is long enough to cover the
hydrant. For most of the hydrants I've seen, that's not a correct
assumption.

That'll thaw it. If the
drum is not high enough, oyt it on concrete blocks but be sure the
entire bottom is closed.

What you're forgetting is that by this time, the hydrant is surely frozen
at
least a foot below the surface, too -- so the OP needs to thaw not only
the
frozen hydrant, but frozen ground too.

I still think the best way to thaw it is to wait for warm weather --
although
on a sunny day, a 55-gallon drum, painted black, with one end closed,
might do
the trick.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Feb 4, 6:55 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , FragileWarrior wrote:
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It's called a freeze-proof hydrant. If this one's been damaged, that's what
you ask for when you go to replace it.


snip

Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

AT last. I kept reading wondering when someone would call it right.
They are called "Frost Free Hydrants" out here. I don't know what the
true technical name is. Asking for one by either of those names will
get what he needs.

Harry K

"Jack" wrote in
ups.com:

On Feb 4, 5:33 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric
pump down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit
that's at ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At
least I HOPE it's not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground
level "pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the
handle up and then flip the switch to start the electric pump and
pump the water. After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump"
handle down and shut off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the
electric, detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN.
An hour later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at
the "pump" was frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position
and won't budge. No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch
for almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the
top of the ground level pump since no water would have been pushing
upward from the well without the electric running, right? But I had
no luck. It did cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving
direct heat were refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed.
What do I need to do to thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep
freeze here for another week at least. Do I need to call in
professional help? Who do I call? A plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

You apparently have a submersible pump with a ground level antifreeze
spigot, Which drains when you put the handle down, which you forgotand
therefor it froze. You need to just thraw the pipes out in however
manner you can. An electric heater wire made for just such , might do
the trick. But just thaw it out and then remember to drain that spigot
each time you use it, DO YOU HEAR????
Jack




If I *EVER* forget to put that handle down again someone should just take
me out and shoot me because my brain has obviously seen better days and
has turned completely to mush.

Here's the latest: I schlepped into town (30 miles round trip) and got
two heat lamps. I set up the tent, plugged them in and one didn't work.
(I must have broken a mirror recently or something...) I could tell
pretty quick that this set-up wasn't going to do much -- especially with
one lamp -- so when I schlepped back to town, I bought heat tape. I put
that on -- six foot of it, spiral around the pipe but not touching itself
-- and covered it with two huge pieces of R30 insulation. I taped it the
best I could (the tape is freezing and not sticking) and then I jammed a
plastic garbage can down over the whole set up. I figure I will leave it
until tomorrow without undoing it.

Thanks to everyone who is replying and trying to suggest ways to help.
Strength-wise, I don't have what it takes to remove spigots/piping or
other heavy-duty stuff. Until this thaws out, I'll be running out with
buckets of water every hour.

Thanks everyone.

"Barney" wrote in
:

anybody mention turning off the power?

It was off when it froze.

Mike,

I also like the electric blanket idea but recommend those small,
waterproof, heating pads instead. I'd be nervous about water leaks so the
pads should be waterproof and the switches and plugs need to be protected
from water as well/

Dave M.

If he would have left the handle down, then the water would have drained
back down. That how a freeze proof hydrant work. And that's what it sounds
like he has.
see:
http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/...fpyh_works.htm
--
Steve Barker


"marson" wrote in message
ups.com...
At any rate,
the fact that you left the handle up is a good thing, since as it
froze, the expanding water would have a place to go.

"Steve Barker" wrote in
news
If he would have left the handle down, then the water would have
drained back down. That how a freeze proof hydrant work. And that's
what it sounds like he has.
see:
http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/...w_fpyh_works.h
tm

She. IF SHE... City girl.

And if it hadn't been at the end of a very long and tiring day, the handle
would have been down. In two years, I never used it and forgot to close it
before. But, as my luck would have it, it happened when it was six degrees
outside.

why?

--
Steve Barker



"Barney" wrote in message
.. .
anybody mention turning off the power?

In article .com, "Harry K" wrote:

AT last. I kept reading wondering when someone would call it right.
They are called "Frost Free Hydrants" out here. I don't know what the
true technical name is.

Sure you do: it's "Frost Free" (or "Freeze Proof") Hydrant. g

Asking for one by either of those names will
get what he needs.

Yep.
Harry K


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"David Martel" wrote in message
ink.net...
Mike,

I also like the electric blanket idea but recommend those small,
waterproof, heating pads instead. I'd be nervous about water leaks so the
pads should be waterproof and the switches and plugs need to be protected
from water as well/

Dave M.



i said this hoping it would be used w/ the tent the OP was referring to
setting up. as far as i know new electric blankets are water resistant and
i'm assuming that the OP would shut the power off so there shouldn't be any
puddling or pouring of water. using a power cord w/ outlets that trips off
would be good too.

mike.......

so sorry for the gender mistake. What are you having to water hourly?

--
Steve Barker




"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
She. IF SHE... City girl.

And if it hadn't been at the end of a very long and tiring day, the handle
would have been down. In two years, I never used it and forgot to close
it
before. But, as my luck would have it, it happened when it was six
degrees
outside.

"Steve Barker" wrote in
:

so sorry for the gender mistake. What are you having to water hourly?


Until now, nothing. I watered once a day into an old bathtub.

Now that I'm reduced to running out with 5 gallon buckets of water, I'm
checking hourly, refilling maybe every three or four hours.

I have a draft and two mini horses.

Sounds like you're in the same deep freeze I am. (eastern kansas)

--
Steve Barker


"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in
:

so sorry for the gender mistake. What are you having to water hourly?


Until now, nothing. I watered once a day into an old bathtub.

Now that I'm reduced to running out with 5 gallon buckets of water, I'm
checking hourly, refilling maybe every three or four hours.

I have a draft and two mini horses.

"Steve Barker" wrote in
:

Sounds like you're in the same deep freeze I am. (eastern kansas)


Central Indiana. The water I'm spilling on the barn (cement) floor is
freezing as soon as it hits.

Nice time to freeze a well spigot up, huh?

--
Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate and Starbucks!!
BetsyB

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well
(submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at
the
ground level is a riser spigot.

It may just
be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe
and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe
and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with
the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as
well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down
the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do
it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think
my
torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp
house
around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't
work,
then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.


try some electric blankets laid on the ground and over the spigot cover
the
blankets on the ground w/ hay then cover the hay w/ a couple horse
blankets
or tarps but NOT plastic.

mike........



A heat tape might work, did on our submerged pumps in Chugiak AK

Read the whole litany of replies to your
troubles. I like your idea of using
a tarp over a few saw horses, but a
different heat source. How about a
torpedo heater blowing its warmth into
the tent. These things put out tons
of heat. And, you could probably rent
one at a rental place (I know, 30
miles away) if you don't have one or
can't borrow one. I just used one
in a garage where we were repairing the
door opener. It was about 30
degrees outside .... not as cold at it
is today in the mid west. But, after
about an hour or so, we had to turn off
the heater and remove our jackets.
BTW, it was a 50K BTU unit.

FragileWarrior wrote:
Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric pump
down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at
ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At least I HOPE it's
not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground level
"pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the handle up and
then flip the switch to start the electric pump and pump the water.
After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump" handle down and shut
off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the electric,
detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN. An hour
later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at the "pump" was
frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position and won't budge.
No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for
almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the
ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the
well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did
cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were
refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to
thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at
least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A
plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

Gerry Atrick wrote in
:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:48:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

"Jack" wrote in
roups.com:

On Feb 4, 5:33 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an
electric pump down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the
pump unit that's at ground level, not the electric one down in the
well. At least I HOPE it's not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground
level "pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the
handle up and then flip the switch to start the electric pump and
pump the water. After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the
"pump" handle down and shut off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the
electric, detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE
DOWN.
An hour later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at
the "pump" was frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up
position and won't budge. No water will come out when the electric
pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch
for almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the
top of the ground level pump since no water would have been pushing
upward from the well without the electric running, right? But I
had no luck. It did cross my mind that parts that weren't
receiving direct heat were refreezing faster than I could keep them
thawed. What do I need to do to thaw this out? We're due to be in
a deep freeze here for another week at least. Do I need to call in
professional help? Who do I call? A plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

You apparently have a submersible pump with a ground level
antifreeze spigot, Which drains when you put the handle down, which
you forgotand therefor it froze. You need to just thraw the pipes
out in however manner you can. An electric heater wire made for
just such , might do the trick. But just thaw it out and then
remember to drain that spigot each time you use it, DO YOU HEAR????
Jack




If I *EVER* forget to put that handle down again someone should just
take me out and shoot me because my brain has obviously seen better
days and has turned completely to mush.

Here's the latest: I schlepped into town (30 miles round trip) and
got two heat lamps. I set up the tent, plugged them in and one didn't
work. (I must have broken a mirror recently or something...) I could
tell pretty quick that this set-up wasn't going to do much --
especially with one lamp -- so when I schlepped back to town, I bought
heat tape. I put that on -- six foot of it, spiral around the pipe
but not touching itself -- and covered it with two huge pieces of R30
insulation. I taped it the best I could (the tape is freezing and not
sticking) and then I jammed a plastic garbage can down over the whole
set up. I figure I will leave it until tomorrow without undoing it.

Thanks to everyone who is replying and trying to suggest ways to help.
Strength-wise, I don't have what it takes to remove spigots/piping or
other heavy-duty stuff. Until this thaws out, I'll be running out
with buckets of water every hour.

Thanks everyone.

Be prepared to blast a torch at the soil at the base of the hydrant
after the top thaws. (Remove heat tape first). Its likely frozen
under the soil, If you can, take a turkey baster and make a thick
paste of table salt and water. See if you can inject that into the
part where the hose connects.

By the way, what state are you in? This midwest cold spell is horrid.



Central Indiana, and, yes, doesn't it figure that THIS is the first time
I made this mistake??

I'll try the saline injection tomorrow if the heat
tape/insulation/garbage can-shed didn't work.

Oh, btw, my draft horse thinks it is REALLY COOL that I'm running out there
with 5 gallon buckets of water for him every couple of hours. Apparently
he figures it is his duty to drink it all upon delivery.

If I didn't love him to death, I'd shoot him.

Yeah, I hear you. We are trying to keep 30 chickens, two dogs, and a cat in
water at a place where we don't live yet.


--
Steve Barker


"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in
:

Sounds like you're in the same deep freeze I am. (eastern kansas)


Central Indiana. The water I'm spilling on the barn (cement) floor is
freezing as soon as it hits.

Nice time to freeze a well spigot up, huh?

In article , FragileWarrior wrote:

Central Indiana. The water I'm spilling on the barn (cement) floor is
freezing as soon as it hits.

Hey, Warrior, greetings from a fellow Hoosier! What part, exactly, of central
Indiana are you in? I'm in Indianapolis right now... used to be in rural
Pendleton until mid-'99.

Nice time to freeze a well spigot up, huh?

It's a PITA, all right. I certainly sympathize.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Gerry Atrick wrote:

Sure, it can sit till spring, but animals need water and the harder
the freeze, the more likely the hydrant will crack.

The OP just posted that she's in central Indiana. So am I, and have been for
the last 34 years. So trust me on a couple of things:

1) She definitely will not have to wait for spring to get a thaw. Two weeks,
at most, before the ambient temp is high enough to thaw it. Extended periods
of below-freezing weather here are very rare.

2) It's as cold tonight as it's likely to get. Any damage has already been
done, and will not be made worse by waiting.

I can prove this
point just by putting water in a plastic pitcher. When I water our
pet rabbits I carry a plastic pitcher of water to the shed. On a
partial freeze, the pitcher remains it's normal shape with ice in it.
On a full freeze, the bottom of the pitcher bulges.

That's the difference between freezing only around the edges, and freezing
solid.

This hydrant
should be thawed as soon as possible.

Doesn't matter -- it's only an inch or so thick, and at the temps the OP is
experiencing, it froze solid all the way through on the first night. The
damage (if any) is already done.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Gerry Atrick wrote:

If you missed the original message, she shut off the pump and left the
water standing in the hydrant. Hydrants must be shut off to let the
water standing in the pipe to drain into the soil at the bottom of the
hydrant. Thats the way they work. It should have been shut off
before the pump was shut off.

It wouldn't matter if the hydrant was shut off after the pump -- the only
thing that matters is if the hydrant is shut off at all.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Gerry Atrick wrote:
On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 03:36:35 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Gerry Atrick
wrote:

If you missed the original message, she shut off the pump and left the
water standing in the hydrant. Hydrants must be shut off to let the
water standing in the pipe to drain into the soil at the bottom of the
hydrant. Thats the way they work. It should have been shut off
before the pump was shut off.

It wouldn't matter if the hydrant was shut off after the pump -- the only
thing that matters is if the hydrant is shut off at all.

If the hydrant is in the ON position, the entire stand-pipe is filled
with water. It can not drain down into the soil when the handle is in
the UP (or ON) position. They operate like a 2-way valve. When the
handle is UP, the water comes out the hose fitting. When the handle
is DOWN, it shuts off the water that enters the hydrant (below the
ground), and opens a drain hole to allow the water to drain out of the
stand-pipe. If she left the handle UP, the pump was off so no water
could flow, but the drain hole was never opened to allow the water to
drain out of the stand-pipe. That water froze.

I understand perfectly well how they work. You, apparently, did not understand
what I wrote. Perhaps you should re-read it. My point was that it doesn't
matter whether the hydrant is shut off before, or after, the pump -- as long
as it is shut off.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article ,
FragileWarrior wrote:

Central Indiana. The water I'm spilling on the barn (cement) floor is
freezing as soon as it hits.

Hey, Warrior, greetings from a fellow Hoosier! What part, exactly, of
central Indiana are you in? I'm in Indianapolis right now... used to
be in rural Pendleton until mid-'99.

I'm near Greencastle. Originally I'm from NY, tho. How do you like them
Colts, eh? I saw The Bills go to the Superbowl four times and lose but got
a Superbowl team in IN.

In article , FragileWarrior wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in
t:

In article ,
FragileWarrior wrote:

Central Indiana. The water I'm spilling on the barn (cement) floor is
freezing as soon as it hits.

Hey, Warrior, greetings from a fellow Hoosier! What part, exactly, of
central Indiana are you in? I'm in Indianapolis right now... used to
be in rural Pendleton until mid-'99.

I'm near Greencastle. Originally I'm from NY, tho. How do you like them
Colts, eh? I saw The Bills go to the Superbowl four times and lose but got
a Superbowl team in IN.

Been a Colts fan since they moved here. We've waited a *long* time for this,
and I'm loving every minute of it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Still frozen after 24 hours.

Anyone know how I can create a hole in the ozone right over the hydrant?
-12 overnight was probably not a big help in getting anything thawed even
WITH heat tape and insulation.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
Still frozen after 24 hours.

Anyone know how I can create a hole in the ozone right over the hydrant?
-12 overnight was probably not a big help in getting anything thawed even
WITH heat tape and insulation.

I see you tied a propane torch-way too small. You might be able to find a weed burner or
snow melter torch at the home center that hooks up to a barbeque propane tank. Short of
that, pick up a piece of round vent pipe, snap it around the hydrant, and fill it with
charcoal....

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:18:11 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Still frozen after 24 hours.

Anyone know how I can create a hole in the ozone right over the hydrant?
-12 overnight was probably not a big help in getting anything thawed even
WITH heat tape and insulation.


Electric coffeepot, wine-pump, 8 feet of tubing.
Keep pumping hot water into the muzzle and let it
run out again into the coffeepot. Periodically
shove the tube farther into the pipe as the
blockage retreats.
Also, bury the whole thing in bales of hay,
and THEN toss a tarp over it all.

Also, call around and see if you can
find someone who's got an electric welder,
who knows how to use it to thaw pipe.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
Still frozen after 24 hours.

Anyone know how I can create a hole in the ozone right over the hydrant?
-12 overnight was probably not a big help in getting anything thawed even
WITH heat tape and insulation.

i bet if you had tried my recomendation about the electric blankets along w/
your thought of using a tent type contraption you would have had better
results.

sorry to hear of your trouble.

mike.........