Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.

HugeBob wrote:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.


If you have gaseous fuel at your home you should consider using a
natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas fueled unit. Your fuel never
goes bad and if you have utility supplied natural gas your fuel supply
will be nearly endless for ordinary power failure situations. If you do
use natural gas as a fuel it is a good idea to have a duel or tri-fueled
engine so that you can keep LPG gas on hand against utility failure
and use gasoline if that's all you can find.

As for which brand of generator to buy both Yamaha and Honda have very
good reputations in the small engine market. Kohler has a good
reputation in the medium engine market but that is generally more than
most homes would need.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

HugeBob wrote:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.

Start by determining what the power needs are for your pump(s). Sump
pumps come in many sizes.

Make sure the generator has both the ability to power the pumps and to
handle their start up surge.

I have been very impressed with the Honda generators.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

HugeBob wrote:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.

If you have certain kinds of municipal water, consider an emergency
water-driven sump-pump.

You might think, if the power goes out, the water distribution system goes
out. Not necessarily so. Most municipal systems are gravity-driven. The city
has electric pumps - relatively small ones at that - to pump water 24/7 into
a water tank about 70 feet above the ground. This tank then uses gravity to
get the 50-70psi pressure into the distribution system. Tanks are sized to
provide several days worth of water.

Point is, a water-driven sump-pump is very much simpler than a gas-powered
generator. Less to go wrong, uses no fuel, generates no noxious fumes, will
run without intervention for several days (until the water supply gives
out), and costs but a fraction of a fuel-powered generator.

Of course it won't run your refrigerator or computer, but it will keep your
basement dry.

In article ,
says...
|HugeBob wrote:
| Hi All,
|
| I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
| pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm

If you loose power and need to turn on a generator will you be able to
get to your home in time to start up a genset before the lack of a
working sump pump damages your basement ?

Will you need a genset that will auto start and throw the transfer
switch automatically ? That is quite a bit more expensive than a roll
into place and plug it in and pull the rope model.

If you need one of these fancy units tyr to install it as far away from
the house and your neighbors as possible. They make alot of noise and
will drive you nuts after a few hours run time if you put it right next
to your house.

If you need one of these fancy units tyr to install it as far away from
the house and your neighbors as possible. They make alot of noise and
will drive you nuts after a few hours run time if you put it right next
to your house.

That's a good point!

We just have a 10 hp hand start model with manual switching and connection
when the power fails. We have no problem watching TV when it is operating.

But our "neighbors" down the hill have an automatic system. My estimate is
that it's 800 feet away. We can hear it. It must be quite loud to the
folks living on 20' or so from it.

In article , Steven Stone
says...

In article ,
says...
|HugeBob wrote:
| Hi All,
|
| I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
| pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm


BTDTGTTS on both these questions:

If you loose power and need to turn on a generator will you be able to
get to your home in time to start up a genset before the lack of a
working sump pump damages your basement ?


Chances are on his side that he will be able to get to his home in time or will
already be there vs. chances he can't. Dumb to have a big problem like that
when one is there could have done something about it, because there are
hypothetical cicumstances he won't. I'm in a similar situation, and have so far
always been around to get the generator started.

Will you need a genset that will auto start and throw the transfer
switch automatically ? That is quite a bit more expensive than a roll
into place and plug it in and pull the rope model.

If you need one of these fancy units tyr to install it as far away from
the house and your neighbors as possible. They make alot of noise and
will drive you nuts after a few hours run time if you put it right next
to your house.

Think on this. Overwhelmingly likely, in a power outage, his neighbors will be
out, too. Believe it or not, they'll want power, too, and have anticipated
that. In my neighborhood, in an outage, pretty much everyone is running a
generator. So, no neighbor complaints about noise.

Banty

ahh best way to silence your immediate neighbors about noise is a good
designed quiet system and enough extra power to run a extension cord
for them too

just because so few think of this........

any chance your sump could drain underground to a low spot like curb
and daylight?

even if the sump system backup drain is only a overflow it can prevent
a flooded basement.

best part is gravity always works

Banty wrote:
In article , Steven Stone
says...

In article ,
says...
|HugeBob wrote:
| Hi All,
|
| I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
| pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm


BTDTGTTS on both these questions:

If you loose power and need to turn on a generator will you be able to
get to your home in time to start up a genset before the lack of a
working sump pump damages your basement ?


Chances are on his side that he will be able to get to his home in time or will
already be there vs. chances he can't. Dumb to have a big problem like that
when one is there could have done something about it, because there are
hypothetical cicumstances he won't. I'm in a similar situation, and have so far
always been around to get the generator started.

That depends a lot on how frequently the sump pump typically needs to
run. If it's a finished basement where during rainy weather the pump
runs several times an hour, I wouldn't rely on getting there to start
the generator before damage occurs. Plus, if he relies on that
approach, he needs some type of alarm/messaging system to alert him
that the power is off. And of course, with that comes reliability
issues. What does he use? Pager? That has widest coverage, but if
he doesn't already have one, it has a monthly additional cost and he
needs to drag a pager around. Cell phone? Probably already has
one, but could forget it, the battery can run out, etc. Each has
tradeoffs. And with that approach, I'd also make sure I had battery
backup for the sump pump, which will buy some time to get home and
start the generator.

If I had a finished basement and a sump pump that runs during
significant rain, I'd look at either an automatic generator or a water
driven backup.






Will you need a genset that will auto start and throw the transfer
switch automatically ? That is quite a bit more expensive than a roll
into place and plug it in and pull the rope model.

If you need one of these fancy units tyr to install it as far away from
the house and your neighbors as possible. They make alot of noise and
will drive you nuts after a few hours run time if you put it right next
to your house.

Think on this. Overwhelmingly likely, in a power outage, his neighbors will be
out, too. Believe it or not, they'll want power, too, and have anticipated
that. In my neighborhood, in an outage, pretty much everyone is running a
generator. So, no neighbor complaints about noise.

Banty

In article om,
says...

ahh best way to silence your immediate neighbors about noise is a good
designed quiet system and enough extra power to run a extension cord
for them too


LOL. Done that, too.

just because so few think of this........

any chance your sump could drain underground to a low spot like curb
and daylight?

even if the sump system backup drain is only a overflow it can prevent
a flooded basement.

best part is gravity always works


Oh absolutely I agree. Drain by gravity to daylight if at all possible.

I'd add - address as many of the drainage issues as possible from the outside.
Even if it isn't a total fix (around here every basement is a hole in clay
begging water to find it..), it greatly alleviates the risk by increasing the
time to overflow.

Banty

Honda has a reputation as the "best" but twice the cost of
others.

How often do you plan to use this unit? if it's only a couple
times a year, any generator will do the job if it has enough
wattage.

One HP is 748 watts, if memory serves. Most sumps are half horse,
at largest. If you're comfortable doing gas and oil mix, you can
get a cheap generator on Ebay for about $150, about 1,000 watts.
If you want to go $500, you can get a home owners model Generac
or something like that, that takes straight gas and has oil in
the crankcase.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"HugeBob" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two
sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice.
But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could
someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates
which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything
other
than what he was selling of course.

You're right that running generators are fairly common during
power cuts. Still, I do try to be polite and not run mine past
sundown. Or 7 Pm whichever seems more appropriate.

Use a very large chain and padlock, chain the generator to
something secure. They are a very popular item to steal.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Banty" wrote in message
...

Think on this. Overwhelmingly likely, in a power outage, his
neighbors will be
out, too. Believe it or not, they'll want power, too, and have
anticipated
that. In my neighborhood, in an outage, pretty much everyone
is running a
generator. So, no neighbor complaints about noise.

Banty

In article , Stormin Mormon says...

You're right that running generators are fairly common during
power cuts. Still, I do try to be polite and not run mine past
sundown. Or 7 Pm whichever seems more appropriate.


Wonder how that works for you.... around here it gets dark at night

Truly, I need the sump powered whoever's sleeping (power outages have this nasty
fact of being strongly associated with wet snow/rain events), and no one around
here cuts the generator at night. Indeed, in some instances I've learned of a
power outage in the wee hours waking up to generator music from a neighbor.
With gratitude since that generally means mine needs to get started.

It puzzles me this thing about bothering neighbors since neighbors would all be
expected to be pretty much in the same boat. Are we talking about some
particular problem of one neighbor (like, being located in a specifically boggy
spot or on some utility spur). Or are we projecting irritations regarding
generators in places like camping grounds with RV's?

Banty

Banty wrote:

In article , Stormin Mormon says...

You're right that running generators are fairly common during
power cuts. Still, I do try to be polite and not run mine past
sundown. Or 7 Pm whichever seems more appropriate.


Wonder how that works for you.... around here it gets dark at night

Truly, I need the sump powered whoever's sleeping (power outages have this nasty
fact of being strongly associated with wet snow/rain events), and no one around
here cuts the generator at night. Indeed, in some instances I've learned of a
power outage in the wee hours waking up to generator music from a neighbor.
With gratitude since that generally means mine needs to get started.

It puzzles me this thing about bothering neighbors since neighbors would all be
expected to be pretty much in the same boat. Are we talking about some
particular problem of one neighbor (like, being located in a specifically boggy
spot or on some utility spur). Or are we projecting irritations regarding
generators in places like camping grounds with RV's?

Banty

It's not irritation at the noise of the generator, it's irritation at
freezing their asses off while their pipes freeze because they didn't
want to invest in one.

With the low cost of reasonable generators these days I think it's
pretty negligent not to have one, rather like smoke or CO detectors.

Having recently installed a Generac natural gas powered permanent generator,
and dreading the noise level it supposedly produces, I was extremely
surprised to find that they are not terribly noisy. Mine is rated ay 71 dB,
and sounds a bit louder than my central air, but nowhere near as loud as my
lawn or snow blower engines. My neighbors on one side about 200 feet away
also have the same exact unit, and I can never hear it running at all.

Smarty


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Banty wrote:

In article , Stormin Mormon
says...

You're right that running generators are fairly common during
power cuts. Still, I do try to be polite and not run mine past
sundown. Or 7 Pm whichever seems more appropriate.


Wonder how that works for you.... around here it gets dark at night

Truly, I need the sump powered whoever's sleeping (power outages have
this nasty
fact of being strongly associated with wet snow/rain events), and no one
around
here cuts the generator at night. Indeed, in some instances I've learned
of a
power outage in the wee hours waking up to generator music from a
neighbor.
With gratitude since that generally means mine needs to get started.

It puzzles me this thing about bothering neighbors since neighbors would
all be
expected to be pretty much in the same boat. Are we talking about some
particular problem of one neighbor (like, being located in a specifically
boggy
spot or on some utility spur). Or are we projecting irritations
regarding
generators in places like camping grounds with RV's?

Banty

It's not irritation at the noise of the generator, it's irritation at
freezing their asses off while their pipes freeze because they didn't
want to invest in one.

With the low cost of reasonable generators these days I think it's
pretty negligent not to have one, rather like smoke or CO detectors.

HugeBob wrote:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.

I would recommend either getting the Generac Quietpact 55-G (5500W) or
the Honda EU3000is (2800W). The Generac is actually built for RV use,
but is relatively quiet and should work well for emergency home use
also. Both of them cost about $2000.00. I have the Honda EU3000is and
I'm very happy with it.

If you don't care about noise and you don't want to spend that much
money then I would buy something like the Generac 5550 WheelHouse
($700). You should be warned though that these inexpensive generators
make A LOT OF NOISE.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/PublicPDFs/0E1015.pdf
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4581

wrote:


If you don't care about noise and you don't want to spend that much
money then I would buy something like the Generac 5550 WheelHouse
($700). You should be warned though that these inexpensive generators
make A LOT OF NOISE.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/PublicPDFs/0E1015.pdf
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4581


Agree, my friend got the Home Depot version Generac and the thing is
***LOUD*** . I am sure it would cause hearing damage if you were close
to it for any more than seconds.

Hi Bob,

I had a generator installed and went for a somewhat expensive Onan
RS20000 with Propane LPG. Each persons setup is different. One useful
tip is to Google "Steve Dunlop Generator FAQ". This is a pretty good
review on home power backup solutions and issues.

As a rough guide as far as pricing:

1) Petrol portable units: $US 500 to $US 2300, no woring just use
extension cords
2) Fully Automatic units, LPG or Mains Natual or Propane gas $US 8000,
to $US 10,000
3) Automatic units based on car and truck engines $US 12,000 and up.

Note these are approx prices for generator, gas / fuel instalation and
permanet transfer switch wiring.

Best, Mike.


HugeBob wrote:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a backup generator to power primarily two sump
pumps. Coverage of an extra circuit or two would be nice. But, I'm
more concerned about protecting a finished basement. Could someone
outline which manufacture/unit is best? I've had estimates which left
me more confused as the vendor trashed everyone and everything other
than what he was selling of course.

That's also my experience with the Generacs. Unbelievable noise.
Some generators meet "bureau of land management" or some kind of
standard. Likely to be quieter. I got an ETI generator off Ebay.
Amazing quiet, I hardly knew it was running.

The couple of Honda generators I've been near have also been very
quiet.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"George" wrote in message
...
If you don't care about noise and you don't want to spend
that much
money then I would buy something like the Generac 5550
WheelHouse
($700). You should be warned though that these inexpensive
generators
make A LOT OF NOISE.

Agree, my friend got the Home Depot version Generac and the
thing is
***LOUD*** . I am sure it would cause hearing damage if you
were close
to it for any more than seconds.