I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement, (b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?

Thanks.

One of those is likely a switch wire, you'll need that, the other
"extra" wire likely is a daisy chain to another light fixture. This is
really pretty minimal, I have no less than 6 sets meeting at my first
ceiling box in my living room, something I intend to change one day, as
the light and outlets share a circuit. That was common old school
practice, but less common and no doubt illegal today.

In article . com, wrote:
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

All three should be connected to each other and to the box. The easiest way to
accomplish this probably is to detach C from the box, attach a length of bare
wire (6-8") where C was attached, and wire-nut that wire together with A,B,&C.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected).

What do you mean, "unconnected"? They're connected to each other, aren't they?

C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

Looks like A supplies power to the box, and B is a switch leg for the light.
Current goes to the switch on cable B's black wire, and returns on B's white
wire. C apparently supplies power to a second light (or perhaps an outlet)
controlled by the same switch.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Sounds good.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct?

Probably it is.

Should I: (a) hang my ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring
arrangement,

Yes. Why would you do anything different?

(b) use only the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors,

If you do that, it will stop working. So will the other light (or outlet)
controlled by that switch.

or (c) call an electrician?

That might actually be your best bet, since (no offense intended) it appears
that you don't really understand the situation.

Thanks.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 6 Dec 2006 07:51:50 -0800, wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement, (b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?


If I understand your description properly, then
I expect that (A) is coming from the service panel,
and feeding a hot and a ground to (B), which
is returning a switched hot on the white wire,
{which therefore ought to be marked in some way.}

That switched hot is supplying both the light
fixture, and something else off on the
other end of cable (C).

The nuetral coming back from whatever's on
the other end of (C) combines with the
nuetral off the light, and goes back to
the service panel on the white wire from (A).

If this is correct, then the ground wires
are wrong, since the ground from the
mystery device is connected to the box here,
but not to the ground that leads to the
service panel. All three grounds should
be twisted together, along with one from
the box itself.

Note that you don't have enough wires from
the switch to SWITCH both a light and a fan,
but since you've got an always-hot
wire from the service panel, you can supply
the fan from that, and use the pull-chain
to control the fan.

So you'll want
[ (A,black) (B,Black), (fan) ] = Supply

[ (B,white) (C,black), (light) ] = Switched

[ (A,white) (C,White), (fan/light, white) ]

and
[ (A, ground) (B, ground) (C, Ground) (Box-Ground) ]

.....

--Goedjn.

ps. Always assuming I've guessed right about what
the current wires are doing.



Thanks.

wrote:
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.


In addition to being grounded to the box the "C" grounding conductor should
also be connected to "A" and "B" as well as the grounding conductors from
the ceiling fan.



3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement,


Yes if you want the fan to work just like the currently installed light
fixture, wire it the same way. Is the electrical box that currently
supports the existing light fixture rated for ceiling fans? If not then you
will need to remove it and install a fan brace and box. Make sure to
identify each conductor before taking them apart.


(b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?

Thanks.

wrote:
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement, (b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?

Thanks.

My suggestion would be to simply maintain the current wiring
arrangement. It's not really a mess unless the box is to small. You
should probably connect ground wires A&B to the box if there's room in
the box to do so. If there isn't room, I think I would leave it alone
or swap out the box.

Your biggest problem is in bracing the box so that it can carry the
weight of the ceiling fan. I did that once and as I recall, I precut a
piece of 2 x 4 lumber and screwed it on to the ceiling trusses and then
screwed the electrical box on to the 2 x 4. I think I actually replaced
the box while I was at it, but I wouldn't do that unless you have to.

wrote:
wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement, (b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?

Thanks.


My suggestion would be to simply maintain the current wiring
arrangement. It's not really a mess unless the box is to small. You
should probably connect ground wires A&B to the box if there's room in
the box to do so. If there isn't room, I think I would leave it alone
or swap out the box.

Your biggest problem is in bracing the box so that it can carry the
weight of the ceiling fan. I did that once and as I recall, I precut a
piece of 2 x 4 lumber and screwed it on to the ceiling trusses and then
screwed the electrical box on to the 2 x 4. I think I actually replaced
the box while I was at it, but I wouldn't do that unless you have to.


I *would* replace the box if there is access from above. I believe most
ceiling fans want 10-32 screws not whatever the standard ceiling box is
(6-32?) also a proper fan box will have more secure holes for the
screws to thread into than the bent tabs on a regular ceiling box.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 09:58:42 -0800, "N8N" wrote:


Joseph Meehan wrote:

wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate


This house (built around 1969) has several switch loops, none of which
are marked. also the 240V circuits use ordinary 10/2 Romex
(black/white/bare), and aren't marked either.

Just put a strip of tape (red or black) around the end of any white
wires used for switch legs whenever you find them so future generations
aren't confused. no problem.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On 6 Dec 2006 09:58:42 -0800, "N8N" wrote:


Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate

This house (built around 1969) has several switch loops, none of which
are marked. also the 240V circuits use ordinary 10/2 Romex
(black/white/bare), and aren't marked either.
--
19 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:28:09 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 09:58:42 -0800, "N8N" wrote:


Joseph Meehan wrote:

wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate


This house (built around 1969) has several switch loops, none of which
are marked. also the 240V circuits use ordinary 10/2 Romex
(black/white/bare), and aren't marked either.

Just put a strip of tape (red or black) around the end of any white
wires used for switch legs whenever you find them so future generations
aren't confused. no problem.


That would mean removing ceiling light fixtures (since that's the way
this place is wired), but I should be able to do that.

nate
--
19 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:28:09 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 6 Dec 2006 09:58:42 -0800, "N8N" wrote:



Joseph Meehan wrote:


wrote:


I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate


This house (built around 1969) has several switch loops, none of which
are marked. also the 240V circuits use ordinary 10/2 Romex
(black/white/bare), and aren't marked either.

Just put a strip of tape (red or black) around the end of any white
wires used for switch legs whenever you find them so future generations
aren't confused. no problem.



That would mean removing ceiling light fixtures (since that's the way
this place is wired), but I should be able to do that.


I didn't mean that you should mark everything in the house now; just if
you are working on something and determine that there's an unmarked
switch leg, it only takes a few minutes to mark it. Obviously you are
now aware that there *are* switch legs, so you'll be looking for them in
the future and will be aware that some white colored wires may be "hot."

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:56:35 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:28:09 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 09:58:42 -0800, "N8N" wrote:


Joseph Meehan wrote:

wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:


OK I have not really thought this out, so this is just a quick
non-certified reply.

It appears to be a light with pass through power and a switch line.

There appears to be an error in that all three grounds should have been
connected (and attached to the box). A second possible error may be the
lack of remarking the color of the wire to the switch. I seem to recall
that current code requires marking the ends of the wire in this case.


It does, but I believe that that is a recent addition to the code so it
may not have been a violation when the work was done.

nate


This house (built around 1969) has several switch loops, none of which
are marked. also the 240V circuits use ordinary 10/2 Romex
(black/white/bare), and aren't marked either.

Just put a strip of tape (red or black) around the end of any white
wires used for switch legs whenever you find them so future generations
aren't confused. no problem.


That would mean removing ceiling light fixtures (since that's the way
this place is wired), but I should be able to do that.


It's not worth opening the boxes just to do that.
You should just remember to mark them if you're
ever in there for some other reason. The less
you mess with the wires, the happier they'll be.

Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

I am hanging a ceiling fan and found the following when I dropped the
light:

1) There are 3 romex cables coming into the box. I will call them A,
B and C.

2) Ground wires (bare): A & B are twisted together and loose in
box...each wire is about 3 inches long. C is grounded to box.

3) Black wires: A & B are twisted together and capped off with a wire
connector. They are pushed back in box (unconnected). C is twisted
together with B's white wire and connected to black wire from ceiling
light.

4) White wires: A & C are twisted together and connected to white wire
from ceiling light. As mentioned above, B is tied together with C's
black wire from C and connected to black wire from ceiling light.

Is this, which appears to me as a mess, correct? Should I: (a) hang my
ceiling fan and maintain the current wiring arrangement, (b) use only
the wires on C and cap of A & B with wire connectors, or (c) call an
electrician?

Thanks.


My suggestion would be to simply maintain the current wiring
arrangement. It's not really a mess unless the box is to small. You
should probably connect ground wires A&B to the box if there's room in
the box to do so. If there isn't room, I think I would leave it alone
or swap out the box.

Your biggest problem is in bracing the box so that it can carry the
weight of the ceiling fan. I did that once and as I recall, I precut a
piece of 2 x 4 lumber and screwed it on to the ceiling trusses and then
screwed the electrical box on to the 2 x 4. I think I actually replaced
the box while I was at it, but I wouldn't do that unless you have to.


I *would* replace the box if there is access from above. I believe most
ceiling fans want 10-32 screws not whatever the standard ceiling box is
(6-32?) also a proper fan box will have more secure holes for the
screws to thread into than the bent tabs on a regular ceiling box.

I didn't know there were special electrical boxes available for ceiling
fans. The only installation I ever did was back in about 1985 and I
just sort of jury-rigged everything with 2x4s, etc. The fan is still
hanging there so I must have done OK :

It could be, though, that the special boxes were available even back
then and I just didn't know it.


nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel