Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

650 amps at 12 volts is 6500+1300=7800 watts of power, DC.
The rectifier (converting AC to DC) as well as a transformer (step
down from AC power voltage to 12 volts DC) will have some losses as
well. I believe that you will find such a rectifier to be impossibly
expensive for such an application. So costly that several alternatives
become affordable:
- Another battery, kept charged
- A small winch driven by a suitably geared gasoline engine
- A suitable tow line capable of attachment to a vehicle

There is no information regarding the anticipated current drawn by the
winch at stall speed, nor is the effective load of the boat (including
both friction drag and angle of incline on the railway).
Surely the winch does not demand maximum battery current along the
entire hauling path.

On 13 Nov 2006 17:50:52 -0800, wrote:

Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

wrote:

Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

If it really draws 650 amps, or a significant fraction thereof, you
might as well forget it. The power supply will cost much more than
the winch (and I seriously doubt your extension cord will be up to
the task). Buy a backup battery instead.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On 13 Nov 2006 17:50:52 -0800, wrote:

Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

Does any of the documentation with that winch tell how much current it
uses? Probably a lot less than that CCA rating (which is for a few
seconds).
--
42 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

buy a large battery charger. I have one with 200 amp boost. My 200 amp
boost charger will start my van with a stone dead battery. cranking my
caravans engine at zero degrees a winch will be childs play

buy a large battery charger. I have one with 200 amp boost. My 200 amp
boost charger will start my van with a stone dead battery. cranking my
caravans engine at zero degrees a winch will be childs play

I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement.

The battery doesn't tell you the motor requirements. All you know is that
it exceeds them.

DC power supplies are expensive. Upwards of $1 per watt, and you need many
hundreds of watts.

Why bother at all? Just borrow a battery from another vehicle if yours
fails. Even a spare battery would be far cheaper than a DC power supply.

In article .com,
wrote:
Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.


Unfortunately, Cold Cranking Amps is a measure of battery capacity to
store energy, not an indication of how much current it can supply at
any given time. See if you can find an actual current requirement on
the winch, i.e. number of amps.

If not, you would be better off buying an automotive battery
recharger. One that is capable of 'boosting' or starting a vehicle,
would have no problem running a 12V winch. For that matter, if you can
get your car close enough, you could use a good set of jumper cables
from the car battery to power the winch.


--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

In article ,
says...
In article .com,
wrote:
Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.


Unfortunately, Cold Cranking Amps is a measure of battery capacity to
store energy, not an indication of how much current it can supply at
any given time. See if you can find an actual current requirement on
the winch, i.e. number of amps.

No, "Cold Cranking Amps" is the maximum current the battery will
supply at some given (low) temperature. This is the current it
will supply to a locked-rotor starter. The "Amp Hour" rating is
the measure of the capacity of the battery to store energy.

If not, you would be better off buying an automotive battery
recharger. One that is capable of 'boosting' or starting a vehicle,
would have no problem running a 12V winch. For that matter, if you can
get your car close enough, you could use a good set of jumper cables
from the car battery to power the winch.

--
Keith

As others have pointed out, the CCA rating doesn't help. I suggest you
buy a cheap ammeter at the auto parts store and measure the current draw
of your new winch, (including when it is locked - trying to pull
something that simply won't move.) Then you can consider whether to buy
a battery charger, extra battery, or AC-DC converter.



wrote:
Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

On 13 Nov 2006 17:50:52 -0800, wrote:

Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.


Seems to me that that would be an excellent place to store a
manual winch. How big is this boat?

wrote:
Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.


Why not go the simple route and open your hood and use your vehicle
battery when you need to do this.

Your math doesn't addup. Watts equals amps times volts.

Be nice to know the actual current draw of the winch under full load.
The battery charger with the 12 volt boost setting sounds like one
good answer. Spare battery sounds even better.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Tom Kendrick" wrote in message
...
650 amps at 12 volts is 6500+1300=7800 watts of power, DC.
The rectifier (converting AC to DC) as well as a transformer (step
down from AC power voltage to 12 volts DC) will have some losses as
well. I believe that you will find such a rectifier to be impossibly
expensive for such an application. So costly that several alternatives
become affordable:
- Another battery, kept charged
- A small winch driven by a suitably geared gasoline engine
- A suitable tow line capable of attachment to a vehicle

There is no information regarding the anticipated current drawn by the
winch at stall speed, nor is the effective load of the boat (including
both friction drag and angle of incline on the railway).
Surely the winch does not demand maximum battery current along the
entire hauling path.

Oddly enough, cold cranking amps *IS* a measure of how much amperage
it can supply.

If you want the total battery capacity, you want the "reserve
capacity" which is often expressed as 90 minutes at 25 amps.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
...

Unfortunately, Cold Cranking Amps is a measure of battery capacity to
store energy, not an indication of how much current it can supply at
any given time. See if you can find an actual current requirement on
the winch, i.e. number of amps.

If not, you would be better off buying an automotive battery
recharger. One that is capable of 'boosting' or starting a vehicle,
would have no problem running a 12V winch. For that matter, if you can
get your car close enough, you could use a good set of jumper cables
from the car battery to power the winch.


--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin
Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Your math doesn't addup. Watts equals amps times volts.

I think that's what he did. 650*12=650*(10+2)=6500+1300=7800

Be nice to know the actual current draw of the winch under full load.
The battery charger with the 12 volt boost setting sounds like one
good answer. Spare battery sounds even better.



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:39:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Oddly enough, cold cranking amps *IS* a measure of how much amperage
it can supply.


For a limited time, just enough time to start an engine.

If you want the total battery capacity, you want the "reserve
capacity" which is often expressed as 90 minutes at 25 amps.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

wrote in message
.. .

Unfortunately, Cold Cranking Amps is a measure of battery capacity to
store energy, not an indication of how much current it can supply at
any given time. See if you can find an actual current requirement on
the winch, i.e. number of amps.

If not, you would be better off buying an automotive battery
recharger. One that is capable of 'boosting' or starting a vehicle,
would have no problem running a 12V winch. For that matter, if you can
get your car close enough, you could use a good set of jumper cables
from the car battery to power the winch.
--
41 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:39:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:


Oddly enough, cold cranking amps *IS* a measure of how much amperage
it can supply.



For a limited time, just enough time to start an engine.

How long does it take to winch a boat?



If you want the total battery capacity, you want the "reserve
capacity" which is often expressed as 90 minutes at 25 amps.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

wrote in message
. ..

Unfortunately, Cold Cranking Amps is a measure of battery capacity to
store energy, not an indication of how much current it can supply at
any given time. See if you can find an actual current requirement on
the winch, i.e. number of amps.

If not, you would be better off buying an automotive battery
recharger. One that is capable of 'boosting' or starting a vehicle,
would have no problem running a 12V winch. For that matter, if you can
get your car close enough, you could use a good set of jumper cables

from the car battery to power the winch.


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:30:09 GMT, Tom Kendrick
wrote:

650 amps at 12 volts is 6500+1300=7800 watts of power, DC.

I don't think a 650 CCA battery puts out 650 amps at one time.
Everything would melt.

To the OP, I don't think it is called a converter unless it goes from
DC to AC. From AC to DC it is called a rectifier, even if that is
only part of it.

....

On 13 Nov 2006 17:50:52 -0800, wrote:

Hello, I use a 12 volt winch to pull my boat up on a marine railway at
my seasonal cottage in Canada. I do not have permanent AC power to the
location, but can get a big enough extension cord to it if need be. I
want to buy a more powerful winch which requires a battery rated at "12
VDC - 650 Cold Cranking Amps" which is not a problem. I would like to
buy a back-up 12 volt AC to DC converter to power the winch if the
battery fails. Please advise on how to rate the converter based on the
battery requirement. Much thanks! D. MacQueen.

According to mm :
I don't think a 650 CCA battery puts out 650 amps at one time.
Everything would melt.

It _can_, more or less. Whether it'll melt is up to how you've
connected it.

To the OP, I don't think it is called a converter unless it goes from
DC to AC. From AC to DC it is called a rectifier, even if that is
only part of it.

The OP is using informal terminology. "Converting 120VAC to 12VDC"
is what he's trying to do. A rectifier converts AC to DC, but without
a voltage change.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to :
buy a large battery charger. I have one with 200 amp boost. My 200 amp
boost charger will start my van with a stone dead battery. cranking my
caravans engine at zero degrees a winch will be childs play

I seem to recall somewhere reading that 12V winches draw anywhere
from 50 to 200A. Boost chargers are rated for highly intermittent
operation, after which they have to cool down. A practically small
boost charger for 100-200A will only be able to deliver that for a
matter of seconds. For the cost of a boost charger capable of
running for longer than that, you can buy several spare car
batteries, and the batteries would weigh less.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Bennett Price :
As others have pointed out, the CCA rating doesn't help. I suggest you
buy a cheap ammeter at the auto parts store and measure the current draw
of your new winch, (including when it is locked - trying to pull
something that simply won't move.) Then you can consider whether to buy
a battery charger, extra battery, or AC-DC converter.

Trying to stall a winch can be rather hazardous.

Finding the amp rating of a comparable winch should serve for
a good ballpark number.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 03:37:06 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to :
buy a large battery charger. I have one with 200 amp boost. My 200 amp
boost charger will start my van with a stone dead battery. cranking my
caravans engine at zero degrees a winch will be childs play

I seem to recall somewhere reading that 12V winches draw anywhere
from 50 to 200A. Boost chargers are rated for highly intermittent
operation, after which they have to cool down. A practically small
boost charger for 100-200A will only be able to deliver that for a
matter of seconds. For the cost of a boost charger capable of
running for longer than that, you can buy several spare car
batteries, and the batteries would weigh less.


Yes, get some batteries. Store them charged.
--
38 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

Yes, get some batteries. Store them charged.
--
38 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


batteries large enough limit it to lead acid, which have a finite life
with declining poer over time, shouldnt be stored discharged and they
go dead just sitting around and after such discharge dont recover their
previous capacity......

probably better off with a 12 volt generator.

you could buy a large battery charger and try it in use. if its not
good enough return to store.

my 200 amp boost says it supplies 60 amps at 12

wrote:
Yes, get some batteries. Store them charged.
--
38 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


batteries large enough limit it to lead acid, which have a finite life
with declining poer over time, shouldnt be stored discharged and they
go dead just sitting around and after such discharge dont recover their
previous capacity......

probably better off with a 12 volt generator.

you could buy a large battery charger and try it in use. if its not
good enough return to store.

my 200 amp boost says it supplies 60 amps at 12


Someone had the best idea. Just jump from your car battery if necessary.

wrote:

Yes, get some batteries. Store them charged.
--
38 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com



batteries large enough limit it to lead acid, which have a finite life
with declining poer over time, shouldnt be stored discharged and they
go dead just sitting around and after such discharge dont recover their
previous capacity......

probably better off with a 12 volt generator.

Generators can also deteriorate if not run regularly, and cost more than
batteries.


you could buy a large battery charger and try it in use. if its not
good enough return to store.

my 200 amp boost says it supplies 60 amps at 12



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Rich256 wrote:

wrote:

Yes, get some batteries. Store them charged.
--
38 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


batteries large enough limit it to lead acid, which have a finite life
with declining poer over time, shouldnt be stored discharged and they
go dead just sitting around and after such discharge dont recover their
previous capacity......

probably better off with a 12 volt generator.

you could buy a large battery charger and try it in use. if its not
good enough return to store.

my 200 amp boost says it supplies 60 amps at 12


Someone had the best idea. Just jump from your car battery if necessary.

That can also have a couple of downsides, though --

if you're not careful, you can discharge your car battery and strand
yourself

it's not always possible to move a car into a suitable position to use
it that way

Maybe one could use the BOAT's battery (if it has one)?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .