finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

If that guys stuff is on you property then you have every right to have
it removed and promptly. Give that asshole 30 days to tear it down.
If he doesn't do it the you have every right to remove it and dispose
of it however you wish. Giving notice is as fair as you can be. I
would send him a certified letter telling him what he will be required
to do and when. You can't be more fair than that.

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?

Depending on your state's laws, you may not be able to make him move
it. Allowing an encroachment to exist for a certain amount of time can
give people rights to what is ostensibly your land. You bought knowing
there was an encroachment...

Time to talk to a lawyer.

R

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!

sdc:

It's there, it's grandfathered. Cultivate good feelings and friendly
neighbor relationships with the "stubborn old guy". Perhaps you
could bring him some pies or casseroles, or maybe an invitation to
coffee once in a while. Build up the good will-o-meter and your
efforts will bear much fruit. If the coop & fence are no longer in
use,
perhaps you could (after some good will buildup) offer to demolish
them for him, or help with the demolition, or the moving of them if
they are in use. I suggest copius reference to Dale Carnegie's
HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE.

Remember: it is probably grandfathered, and the law is not likely on
your side. Even if it is, a quick reliance on the law is sure to get
you on the guy's bad side, which is a guaranteed ride into the
very unpleasant "push the envelope of what the neighbors will stand"
zone. See his point of view. He's probably been there much longer,
and most likely remembers that the structures have been there a
long time, and "weren't hurting no one". Be forceful, and you will
be seen as the young whippersnappers who thought they could
move in and run things their own way. Be friendly, and you will
be seen as the nice folks who are trying to fit in with the current
social order. There is an invisible point system in all places like
this which you must always be aware of.

Regarding the roof drainage into the yard -- the roof is only draining
such
water as is intercepted by the roof, which isn't going to hurt your
drain field that much. The yard already intercepts more rain.
Let it go while the above process is in motion.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

wrote:
stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!

sdc:

It's there, it's grandfathered.

Not true. Nor is the previous advice to tear it down sound.

If the survey shows the fence and chicken coup are actually on your
property, you need to consult a real estate attorney. The biggest
issue are possible adverse possession or the obtainment of an easement
by the neighbor having had open access for a long enough time. In
addition to openly occupying your property for a very long period, like
15 years, for adverse possession to apply, he usually would also have
had to pay taxes on the property.

Only a local lawyer can tell you how to best proceed and avoid making
matters much worse. I'd consult with one BEFORE I talked to the
neighbor or took any action.


Cultivate good feelings and friendly
neighbor relationships with the "stubborn old guy". Perhaps you
could bring him some pies or casseroles, or maybe an invitation to
coffee once in a while. Build up the good will-o-meter and your
efforts will bear much fruit. If the coop & fence are no longer in
use,
perhaps you could (after some good will buildup) offer to demolish
them for him, or help with the demolition, or the moving of them if
they are in use. I suggest copius reference to Dale Carnegie's
HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE.

Remember: it is probably grandfathered, and the law is not likely on
your side. Even if it is, a quick reliance on the law is sure to get
you on the guy's bad side, which is a guaranteed ride into the
very unpleasant "push the envelope of what the neighbors will stand"
zone. See his point of view. He's probably been there much longer,
and most likely remembers that the structures have been there a
long time, and "weren't hurting no one". Be forceful, and you will
be seen as the young whippersnappers who thought they could
move in and run things their own way. Be friendly, and you will
be seen as the nice folks who are trying to fit in with the current
social order. There is an invisible point system in all places like
this which you must always be aware of.

Regarding the roof drainage into the yard -- the roof is only draining
such
water as is intercepted by the roof, which isn't going to hurt your
drain field that much. The yard already intercepts more rain.
Let it go while the above process is in motion.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

wrote:
wrote:

It's there, it's grandfathered.

Not true. Nor is the previous advice to tear it down sound.

If the survey shows the fence and chicken coup are actually on your
property, you need to consult a real estate attorney. The biggest
issue are possible adverse possession or the obtainment of an easement
by the neighbor having had open access for a long enough time. In
addition to openly occupying your property for a very long period, like
15 years, for adverse possession to apply, he usually would also have
had to pay taxes on the property.

Not sure where you are, but the tax thing rings odd. If I paid your
property tax, it doesn't confer any of your land possession to me. The
old timer thinks that the erections in question are on his property, he
pays his property tax. All's well as far as he's concerned. Adverse
possesion laws vary _tremendously_ from state to state. Sometimes the
possession has to be open and hostile. Other times all it takes is
someone taking care of the area in question (think mowing and pruning).

Only a local lawyer can tell you how to best proceed and avoid making
matters much worse. I'd consult with one BEFORE I talked to the
neighbor or took any action.

This is the only thing the OP can and should do. Unfortunately he
should have consulted the lawyer prior to purchasing the property.

R

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
....

The time to have resolved where the property line(s) is(are) was
_before_ you closed on the property. With whom did you have "an
understanding" and what did that understanding entail? Whatever it
was, undoubtedly it has absolutely no legal bearing.

Can only repeat advice of another--consult w/ an attorney on what your
rights are (which you made a real mistake if you didn't before closing
as appears would be the case) and then figure out how to go from there.

Depending on how large the property is, what the extent of the
encroachment is, what the state/use of the coop is, etc., etc., etc.,
would all have pretty major input on what I would consider a problem
and how to address it. If this has been there the proverbial long time
and it's a long-time resident, undoubtedly there will be virtually no
way you're going to effect a significant change without ruffling
feathers (so to speak )...

Again, the lesson to anyone else is to find out the real deal _first_
.... while I doubt it will work out that way, you may find out you
don't actually have clear title to the entire piece of property you
thought you bought. Of course, you also may find out that the property
lines aren't where you were lead to think they were, too, and in fact,
the coop isn't even on what you thought your property was/is...

RicodJour wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

It's there, it's grandfathered.

Not true. Nor is the previous advice to tear it down sound.

If the survey shows the fence and chicken coup are actually on your
property, you need to consult a real estate attorney. The biggest
issue are possible adverse possession or the obtainment of an easement
by the neighbor having had open access for a long enough time. In
addition to openly occupying your property for a very long period, like
15 years, for adverse possession to apply, he usually would also have
had to pay taxes on the property.

Not sure where you are, but the tax thing rings odd. If I paid your
property tax, it doesn't confer any of your land possession to me.

See below:

http://real-estate-law.freeadvice.co...possession.htm
"The length of time required for adverse possession in title varies -
it could be as short as a few years or could run for twenty years or
more. Typically public entities must establish a longer period of
possession than individuals. Some states have adopted a rule which
requires the adverse possessor to pay taxes each year on the land. "



Also, even without adverse possession, paying someone elses taxes can
result in property possession. The classic case being when a town
sells tax liens on properties that have unpaid tax. At that point, the
person buying the lien pays the taxes and if the property owner doesn't
take action to pay the back taxes plus interest to the holder, after a
certain period, the holder of the tax lien can foreclose.






The
old timer thinks that the erections in question are on his property, he
pays his property tax. All's well as far as he's concerned. Adverse
possesion laws vary _tremendously_ from state to state. Sometimes the
possession has to be open and hostile. Other times all it takes is
someone taking care of the area in question (think mowing and pruning).

Only a local lawyer can tell you how to best proceed and avoid making
matters much worse. I'd consult with one BEFORE I talked to the
neighbor or took any action.

This is the only thing the OP can and should do. Unfortunately he
should have consulted the lawyer prior to purchasing the property.


Yes, why anyone would buy a property knowing that someone else has
possibly built a structure on it, without getting this surveyed and
resolved first, is beyond me.





R

wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

It's there, it's grandfathered.

Not true. Nor is the previous advice to tear it down sound.

If the survey shows the fence and chicken coup are actually on your
property, you need to consult a real estate attorney. The biggest
issue are possible adverse possession or the obtainment of an easement
by the neighbor having had open access for a long enough time. In
addition to openly occupying your property for a very long period, like
15 years, for adverse possession to apply, he usually would also have
had to pay taxes on the property.

Not sure where you are, but the tax thing rings odd. If I paid your
property tax, it doesn't confer any of your land possession to me.

See below:

http://real-estate-law.freeadvice.co...possession.htm
"The length of time required for adverse possession in title varies -
it could be as short as a few years or could run for twenty years or
more. Typically public entities must establish a longer period of
possession than individuals. Some states have adopted a rule which
requires the adverse possessor to pay taxes each year on the land. "

That's an interesting twist on it. I wonder how that shakes out in the
real world. Say that the adverse possessor doesn't pay the taxes on
the disputed property, does that mean that the property owner
automatically keeps the land? Does it mean the property owner doesn't
have to pay taxes on it as it's someone else's responsibility? If the
encroaching owner doesn't pay, does the municipality file a tax lien
and sell the disputed property?

Also, even without adverse possession, paying someone elses taxes can
result in property possession. The classic case being when a town
sells tax liens on properties that have unpaid tax. At that point, the
person buying the lien pays the taxes and if the property owner doesn't
take action to pay the back taxes plus interest to the holder, after a
certain period, the holder of the tax lien can foreclose.

Paying unpaid taxes through a tax lien process is entirely different,
and entirely more likely, than someone selectively paying a small
portion of your taxes to cover the small amount of land occupied by the
encroachment. How would the encroaching owner know how much to pay?
How would the municipality know how to apportion the tax paid?

There aren't many questions that come up on this newsgroup that is so
convoluted that the only advice applicable is consult a local lawyer
knowledgeable in real estate law.

R

RicodJour wrote:
wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

It's there, it's grandfathered.

Not true. Nor is the previous advice to tear it down sound.

If the survey shows the fence and chicken coup are actually on your
property, you need to consult a real estate attorney. The biggest
issue are possible adverse possession or the obtainment of an easement
by the neighbor having had open access for a long enough time. In
addition to openly occupying your property for a very long period, like
15 years, for adverse possession to apply, he usually would also have
had to pay taxes on the property.

Not sure where you are, but the tax thing rings odd. If I paid your
property tax, it doesn't confer any of your land possession to me.

See below:

http://real-estate-law.freeadvice.co...possession.htm
"The length of time required for adverse possession in title varies -
it could be as short as a few years or could run for twenty years or
more. Typically public entities must establish a longer period of
possession than individuals. Some states have adopted a rule which
requires the adverse possessor to pay taxes each year on the land. "

That's an interesting twist on it. I wonder how that shakes out in the
real world. Say that the adverse possessor doesn't pay the taxes on
the disputed property, does that mean that the property owner
automatically keeps the land? Does it mean the property owner doesn't
have to pay taxes on it as it's someone else's responsibility? If the
encroaching owner doesn't pay, does the municipality file a tax lien
and sell the disputed property?

All good questions. I think the paying taxes aspect only likely comes
into play when the property at issue is an entire parcel, not just a
boundary issue. A scenario where this could happen would be where an
elderly person died, with no close family. Say the person who was
housekeeper then moved in and continued to maintain the property and
pay the tax bills for 20+ years. The housekeeper would then have
likely met the reqts for adversed possession.




Also, even without adverse possession, paying someone elses taxes can
result in property possession. The classic case being when a town
sells tax liens on properties that have unpaid tax. At that point, the
person buying the lien pays the taxes and if the property owner doesn't
take action to pay the back taxes plus interest to the holder, after a
certain period, the holder of the tax lien can foreclose.

Paying unpaid taxes through a tax lien process is entirely different,
and entirely more likely, than someone selectively paying a small
portion of your taxes to cover the small amount of land occupied by the
encroachment. How would the encroaching owner know how much to pay?
How would the municipality know how to apportion the tax paid?

In general, I agree. But in this case, I can think of an interesting
angle, where taxes could be paid on part of the property. Consider
this: Suppose the coop/structure is substantial enough that it's part
of the tax valuation. With things all screwed up, it's conceivable
that the coop might be included in the valuation of the encroachers
property. In that case, the encroacher would have been paying the
property tax on at least the value of the structure. I think it's
remote, but an interesting complication.




There aren't many questions that come up on this newsgroup that is so
convoluted that the only advice applicable is consult a local lawyer
knowledgeable in real estate law.

R

Agreed.

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:21:22 -0800, "stay da course?"
wrote:

finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?

You don't. Either you start a major fight,
or you just give up the 18" or whatever the hell
it is.

he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.

Wah.

HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

"stay da course?" wrote in message
...
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!

We used to raise chickens. Chickens are notorious for smoking in bed...

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:10:11 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


"stay da course?" wrote in message
...
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!

We used to raise chickens. Chickens are notorious for smoking in bed...

....and for failing to replace the batteries in their smoke detectors.

stay da course? wrote:

a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.

Is a chicken coup the one where a general is afraid?

R

stay da course? wrote:

finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ


You will probably be better off "putting it away" and applying your
energies to other things. The time to do something about it was when you
were considering and negtiating for the purchase of the place.

Since you referred to the encroacher as a "stubborn old guy" I have to
assume you've already discussed the matter with him and he's essentially
said, "So what? Sue me if you don't like it." to you.

Chances are the lawyer's fees needed to pursue the matter to where you
have an absolute right to tear down his stuff will be enough to make you
think twice about it.

"Ah feel your pain", though.....

Three years ago some folks bought the house and land next door to us and
before I knew what was happening the backhoes were enlarging their back
yard it and the masons were building stone retaining walls on part of
our property which lay beyond the hedges I'd put in to create a boundary
on what we wanted to use as our back yard.

I'd forgotten exactly where the property line was , so I hired a
surveyor to stake it out again, which cost a bit over $1,000. The survey
showed that the new neighbor had beautified about 700 square feet of our
property and was using it as though he owned it. He'd also plopped a
prefab shed down, right against the property line, without regard to the
town zoning requirement for a six foot setback.

I approached the neighbor about it and told him I'd feel OK about
letting him use our land if he'd just reimburse me the proportional
property taxes on it, about $100.00, once a year.

He stalled giving me an answer for weeks and when it became apparant he
wasn't going to do that willingly, I asked a real estate lawyer in my
Rotary Club about it. He said, "Fughedit, you aren't using that land
anyway, and you'd spend a fortune in legal fees to end up having to live
next to a neighbor who hates you."

I took his advice, life is too short to get my shorts twisted up for
long over things like that.

FWIW our lot is "Registered Land" here in Massachussetts, which means
adverse possession can't give the neighbor any rights, plus the statute
time for adverse possession here is 20 years anyway.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
stay da course? wrote:

finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ


You will probably be better off "putting it away" and applying your
energies to other things. The time to do something about it was when you
were considering and negtiating for the purchase of the place.


If he justs ignores it, besides having the coop and fence on his
property, he could wind up losing the land under the coop too. Right
now, if the coop is indeed on his property, the neighbor is meeting
many of the requirements for adverse possession. However, he may not
have met the time reqt which can be 20 years. If the owner just waits
and does nothing, it could result in the neighbor having a valid
adverse possession claim to the land under the coop.

Which is why he needs a lawyer familiar with the state laws.




Since you referred to the encroacher as a "stubborn old guy" I have to
assume you've already discussed the matter with him and he's essentially
said, "So what? Sue me if you don't like it." to you.

Chances are the lawyer's fees needed to pursue the matter to where you
have an absolute right to tear down his stuff will be enough to make you
think twice about it.

"Ah feel your pain", though.....

Three years ago some folks bought the house and land next door to us and
before I knew what was happening the backhoes were enlarging their back
yard it and the masons were building stone retaining walls on part of
our property which lay beyond the hedges I'd put in to create a boundary
on what we wanted to use as our back yard.

I'd forgotten exactly where the property line was , so I hired a
surveyor to stake it out again, which cost a bit over $1,000. The survey
showed that the new neighbor had beautified about 700 square feet of our
property and was using it as though he owned it. He'd also plopped a
prefab shed down, right against the property line, without regard to the
town zoning requirement for a six foot setback.

I approached the neighbor about it and told him I'd feel OK about
letting him use our land if he'd just reimburse me the proportional
property taxes on it, about $100.00, once a year.

He stalled giving me an answer for weeks and when it became apparant he
wasn't going to do that willingly, I asked a real estate lawyer in my
Rotary Club about it. He said, "Fughedit, you aren't using that land
anyway, and you'd spend a fortune in legal fees to end up having to live
next to a neighbor who hates you."

I took his advice, life is too short to get my shorts twisted up for
long over things like that.

FWIW our lot is "Registered Land" here in Massachussetts, which means
adverse possession can't give the neighbor any rights, plus the statute
time for adverse possession here is 20 years anyway.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Get the survey first- this should have been done before closing- see
how being cheap works out!!!! If in fact the neighbor has encroached
I would give him the opportunity to remove it.
If he refuses I would remove it .Maybe I might accidently hit it with a
truck and knock it down. Maybe a new fence would appear on the
property line. Let the neighbor try to start something. If he
complains let your title insurance (you do have that?) deal with it as
they have better lawyers than the old coot. If the coop and fence are
not on your land but create a nuisance you have the right to alleviate
the nuisance.

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

According to :
Get the survey first- this should have been done before closing- see
how being cheap works out!!!! If in fact the neighbor has encroached
I would give him the opportunity to remove it.
If he refuses I would remove it .Maybe I might accidently hit it with a
truck and knock it down. Maybe a new fence would appear on the
property line. Let the neighbor try to start something.

Neighbor wars are _never_ worth the hassle, and they're always
unpretty.

Consult a lawyer before doing anything precipitous, and explore
_all_ of the options. ****ing off neighbors is always a bad thing.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Three years ago some folks bought the house and land next door to us and
before I knew what was happening the backhoes were enlarging their back
yard it and the masons were building stone retaining walls on part of
our property which lay beyond the hedges I'd put in to create a boundary
on what we wanted to use as our back yard.

I'd forgotten exactly where the property line was , so I hired a
surveyor to stake it out again, which cost a bit over $1,000. The survey
showed that the new neighbor had beautified about 700 square feet of our
property and was using it as though he owned it. He'd also plopped a
prefab shed down, right against the property line, without regard to the
town zoning requirement for a six foot setback.

I approached the neighbor about it and told him I'd feel OK about
letting him use our land if he'd just reimburse me the proportional
property taxes on it, about $100.00, once a year.

He stalled giving me an answer for weeks and when it became apparant he
wasn't going to do that willingly, I asked a real estate lawyer in my
Rotary Club about it. He said, "Fughedit, you aren't using that land
anyway, and you'd spend a fortune in legal fees to end up having to live
next to a neighbor who hates you."

I took his advice, life is too short to get my shorts twisted up for
long over things like that.

FWIW our lot is "Registered Land" here in Massachussetts, which means
adverse possession can't give the neighbor any rights, plus the statute
time for adverse possession here is 20 years anyway.

I'm a bit confused, Jeff. You spoke with a lawyer but there are zoning
laws and presumably building codes and permits required. Why not have
the town take care of it? Wouldn't cost you a dime.

As far as living next to a neighbor that hates you... If a guy walks
up to me and ****es on my shoes, I'm not really going to care all that
much about his opinion of what I do next.

R

On Oct 31, 5:36 pm, wrote:
On 31 Oct 2006 13:44:34 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

I'm a bit confused, Jeff. You spoke with a lawyer but there are zoning
laws and presumably building codes and permits required. Why not have
the town take care of it? Wouldn't cost you a dime."Chickens" pretty much says there is no zonng and probably no building
code/permits. Agricultural buildings are usually exermpt from all this
stuff and most places with zoning will "zone out" farm animals,
partucularly chickens first.

My post was in reply to Jeff's story, not the OP's.

R

RicodJour wrote:



I'm a bit confused, Jeff. You spoke with a lawyer but there are zoning
laws and presumably building codes and permits required. Why not have
the town take care of it? Wouldn't cost you a dime.

I don't know if he got (or even needed to get) a permit for what he did,
though I suspect he didn't. However, I don't think that bringing the
town down on him over that would have gained me anything other than
giving him another reason to think of ways to "get even" with me.

Regarding the shed he added right against the property line, it is far
enough away from our house and back yard and screened by foiliage so
that it's not really a bother. Complaining to the town about that would
not benefit us in any significant way and I would feel like I was just
lowering myself to the neighbor's level.


As far as living next to a neighbor that hates you... If a guy walks
up to me and ****es on my shoes, I'm not really going to care all that
much about his opinion of what I do next.

R


I think my answer to that is what others here have said here so many
times. Getting into a ****ing contest with a skunk living next door
rarely wins you anything you'd really want. YMMV.

It was a "dog in the manger" situation, the land the neighbor "grabbed"
was nothing we could make practical use of without major landscaping
efforts, but it was part of the lot when we bought it 21 years ago so we
own it and pay taxes on it.

I figured if that neighbor had any class he'd agree to pay the taxes on
the land he's using as though it were his, and we could both feel that
were getting a fair deal. I also offered to sell him that bit of land
for it's tax assessed value if he picked up all the legal and filing
costs of the transfer, but he didn't spring for that either.

So, as one of my previous sig lines read, "What do you expect from a pig
but a grunt?"

However, his house has been on the market for most of the past year. I
spoke with and wrote a letter to the real estate agent telling her she'd
be well advised to inform potential buyers about that encroachment and
tell them they'd be wise to get it straightened out as part of any
purchase process. She promised she would. We'll see if that happens.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

wrote in message
news
On 31 Oct 2006 13:44:34 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

I'm a bit confused, Jeff. You spoke with a lawyer but there are zoning
laws and presumably building codes and permits required. Why not have
the town take care of it? Wouldn't cost you a dime.


"Chickens" pretty much says there is no zonng and probably no building
code/permits.

Why is that? Chickens are allowed in many citys.

Bob

"stay da course?" wrote in news:georgew.k-
:

finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ



Burn it.

However, his house has been on the market for most of the past year. I
spoke with and wrote a letter to the real estate agent telling her she'd
be well advised to inform potential buyers about that encroachment and
tell them they'd be wise to get it straightened out as part of any
purchase process. She promised she would. We'll see if that happens.


That's different.
If it's for sale, you should definately make a legal stink
about it, and then while that's going on, have an agent
make a low-ball offer for it. Then you can solve
the problem however you want, and either sell or keep the thing.

If the guy's moving out, why do you care how ****y he gets?

--Goedjn

What state are you in, you better learn the law of Adverse Possession
and find out how long he has been there and the building itself, and if
he put it up or the previous owner, because he may OWN the encroachment
and more if he has maintained it. He could have moved in yesterday and
be "Tacking" on the previous owners desire or not . Laws might be from
5-30 yrs, in my state its 10yrs for Adverse Possession to be complete.
Find out your states law and time limit and post back, you could be in
trouble if he has a claim and is willing to enforce it so removing the
building is not a bad idea now. Make friends now and try to feel him
out. Im involved in that crap right now, you dont want to go there if
you can avoid it. You need his survey , the county surveyors office or a
surveyor will have one.

You are going to get alot of wrong- bad advise here on this, and you
have ,such as removing it before you research the facts and know the
laws.

Id suggest besides an atty take photos of the whole area, alot of
quality digital photos now before the cold temps kill everything. I do
mean details in photos down to any rock or peeling paint or pole, and
where he cuts his grass, so take a hundred , its just a file to store.

RicodJour wrote:
stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?

Depending on your state's laws, you may not be able to make him move
it. Allowing an encroachment to exist for a certain amount of time can
give people rights to what is ostensibly your land. You bought knowing
there was an encroachment...

Time to talk to a lawyer.

R

Depends on the state as to the effect of
encroachment, certainly fencing encroached land
changes rights in some state, but has no effect in
other. My dad sold his place and the timber
company that bought it had the land surveyed.
They found that the actual property line was about
10 feet past the fence line. The timber company
immediately moved the fence over. My dad had
owned the land 50 years and the fence line was in
before he bought it. Funny thing, my dad tried
to buy a 10 foot strip over 14 mile long, the same
one indicated above, but the neighbor didn't want
to sell.

RicodJour wrote:
stay da course? wrote:
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.

Is a chicken coup the one where a general is afraid?

R

Only if he is generally a chicken!

stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

When you bought it, you didn't happen to get title insurance did you?

You need to consult your attorney because you're in a quagmire. But
before you do, go look at your deed and see what it says. There are
various types of deeds where the seller makes various representations.
The least representations are a "quit claim deed' where the seller
doesn't even certify that he owns the property -- he is selling you
whatever he owns, if he owns anything at all. The "best" deed for the
buyer is a "warrenty deed" where the seller warrents that he owns it.
If you have a warrenty deed and there are encoachments, you might have
recourse against the seller. So go check you deed and call your
attorney.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:56:01 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

"Chickens" pretty much says there is no zonng and probably no building
code/permits.

Why is that? Chickens are allowed in many citys.

The only one I know of is Key West and they are feral pests.

There are plenty in Seattle.

Pat wrote:
stay da course? wrote:
finally they are going to tell us where the property line is.
we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment.
a fence and chicken coup supposedly on our land.
Now , when we get the correct boundary , how to delicately get the
stuborn
old guy to move it?
he even tilted the roof of the coop to dump rain into our yard. Hasn't
helped the septic drain field.
HELP!
I Remember Another Quagmire = IRAQ

When you bought it, you didn't happen to get title insurance did you?

You need to consult your attorney because you're in a quagmire. But
before you do, go look at your deed and see what it says. There are
various types of deeds where the seller makes various representations.
The least representations are a "quit claim deed' where the seller
doesn't even certify that he owns the property -- he is selling you
whatever he owns, if he owns anything at all. The "best" deed for the
buyer is a "warrenty deed" where the seller warrents that he owns it.
If you have a warrenty deed and there are encoachments, you might have
recourse against the seller. So go check you deed and call your
attorney.


I think recourse against the seller isn't gonna work in light of this:

"we bought this place with the understanding that there was an
encroachment. "

And what would you try to make the seller do now anyway? The real
issue is first to resolve the encroachment. Until that is done, the
owner doesn't have any way to prove monetary damages, loss, etc.

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:10:11 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

We used to raise chickens. Chickens are notorious for smoking in bed...

I wasn't in school yet and sent to feed the chickens. The damn rooster
spurred me, so I got the entry closed and ran to the house. My GAunt
grabbed the axe, and I had to select the lunch.. the rooster included
dumplings and peach cobbler..yummy (grin).
--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."