My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.

--
----------
CWLee
Former slayer of dragons; practice now limited to sacred
cows. Believing we should hire for quality, not quotas, and
promote for performance, not preferences.

CWLee wrote:
My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow. Are the bulb
loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a limited knowledge
of electronics and are probably measuring the output of those dimmers
with an electronic (digital) voltmeter which is responding to miniscule
leakage currents that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...
CWLee wrote:
My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow. Are the bulb
loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a limited knowledge of
electronics and are probably measuring the output of those dimmers with an
electronic (digital) voltmeter which is responding to miniscule leakage
currents that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff

That digital meter thing - is it only an issue with AC current?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...

CWLee wrote:

My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow. Are the bulb
loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a limited knowledge of
electronics and are probably measuring the output of those dimmers with an
electronic (digital) voltmeter which is responding to miniscule leakage
currents that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff


That digital meter thing - is it only an issue with AC current?



That depends on how those microamp sized currents are being coupled to
the meter.

On AC, just capacitive coupling between two nearby insulated wires will
cause current flow into the meter through the charging and discharging
of the interwire capacitance. That current develops a voltage across the
meter's input impedance which gets displayed. But, there coan also be
resistive coupling of AC through badly degraded insulation on very old
wiring, or through a film of moisture condensed across an insulating
barrier.

On DC circuits capacitive coupling is not a factor, except perhaps for a
momentary "blip" of the meter when an adjacent wire is powered up or
down, but the resistive coupling mentioned above could easily cause a
significant DC reading on a high input impedance meter.

My "rule of thumb" when encountering those unexpected low voltage
digital meter readings is to put my thumb and forefinger across both
meter probes while they are connected across the circuit. If the shunt
resistance of my hand causes the meter reading to drop significantly, I
know it's nothing to worry about.

YMMV, and to be safe, make sure you're not standing in a puddle or have
your other hand on something grounded if you try that.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

"40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow.
Are the bulb loads connected, and if so, do they glow?"

At full ON the bulbs are very bright. As the toggle lever
is moved toward the OFF position the bulbs diminish in
brightness. With the lever horizontal (i.e., about half way
between full ON and full OFF) the bulbs have dimmed
sufficient that one can barely see the lighted filament
inside. Moving the lever farther toward the full OFF
position results in that barely lighted filament appearing
to disappear. However, I wonder if, at 48-50 volts, the
filament is hot enough to be visible through the frosted
bulbs.

He also wrote:

"If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a
limited knowledge of electronics and are probably measuring
the output of those dimmers with an electronic (digital)
voltmeter which is responding to miniscule leakage currents
that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage readings."

True, I have a limited knowledge of electronics. The output
was measured with a (medium priced - perhaps $40 from Sears)
hand-held digital voltmeter, as follows: Line voltage of
110? AC was on one side of the dimmer switch. At full ON
the voltmeter read something like 116 or 118 volts. As the
toggle lever on the switch was moved from full ON to full
OFF the reading on the voltmeter dropped from 116 to 48 or
49 the first time we measured it. Second time it went to 50
volts at full OFF. I don't understand what you mean by
"responding to miniscule leakage currents ... 'phantom'
voltage readings." Are you saying that what we observed is
an artifact of the measurement device, and that in fact
there is no voltage flowing through the switch in the fully
OFF position? That would be comforting in one sense about
no safety hazard with the wiring beyond the switch, but
disturbing in the sense of never being sure whether the
voltmeter is accurate or not.

Any further elaboration/clarification you (or others) can
provide would be appreciated.

Thanks.

========================

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...
CWLee wrote:
My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean
zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow.
Are the bulb
loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a
limited knowledge
of electronics and are probably measuring the output of
those dimmers
with an electronic (digital) voltmeter which is responding
to miniscule
leakage currents that give you what's known as "phantom"
voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

"40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow.
Are the bulb loads connected, and if so, do they glow?"

At full ON the bulbs are very bright. As the toggle lever
is moved toward the OFF position the bulbs diminish in
brightness. With the lever horizontal (i.e., about half way
between full ON and full OFF) the bulbs have dimmed
sufficient that one can barely see the lighted filament
inside. Moving the lever farther toward the full OFF
position results in that barely lighted filament appearing
to disappear. However, I wonder if, at 48-50 volts, the
filament is hot enough to be visible through the frosted
bulbs.

He also wrote:

"If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a
limited knowledge of electronics and are probably measuring
the output of those dimmers with an electronic (digital)
voltmeter which is responding to miniscule leakage currents
that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage readings."

True, I have a limited knowledge of electronics. The output
was measured with a (medium priced - perhaps $40 from Sears)
hand-held digital voltmeter, as follows: Line voltage of
110? AC was on one side of the dimmer switch. At full ON
the voltmeter read something like 116 or 118 volts. As the
toggle lever on the switch was moved from full ON to full
OFF the reading on the voltmeter dropped from 116 to 48 or
49 the first time we measured it. Second time it went to 50
volts at full OFF. I don't understand what you mean by
"responding to miniscule leakage currents ... 'phantom'
voltage readings." Are you saying that what we observed is
an artifact of the measurement device, and that in fact
there is no voltage flowing through the switch in the fully
OFF position? That would be comforting in one sense about
no safety hazard with the wiring beyond the switch, but
disturbing in the sense of never being sure whether the
voltmeter is accurate or not.

Any further elaboration/clarification you (or others) can
provide would be appreciated.

Thanks.

========================

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...

CWLee wrote:

My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean

zero

volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs glow.

Are the bulb

loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a

limited knowledge

of electronics and are probably measuring the output of

those dimmers

with an electronic (digital) voltmeter which is responding

to miniscule

leakage currents that give you what's known as "phantom"

voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."




No, if the bulb loads are connected to the output of the dimmer then my
comments about phantom oltages are likely not relavent. It certainly
does not sound like they are working properly if you see any voltage at
all across the lamp loads when the toggle lever is moved to full OFF.

One thing you haven't revealed is justhow you are making your measurements.

What are you measuring the voltage with respect to? Specifically where
are the two voltmeter leads connected when you make your measurements?

If the wall switch plates are in place is there a possibility that the
plates are mechanically interfering with the toggle levers and keeping
them from moving fully to their off positions?

It seems quite unlikely that TWO new dimmers would both be defective.

And even if the bulb filaments aren't producing any visible light with
40-50 volts across them they certainly will produce some heat. If you
leave the toggle levers in their OFF position for several hours and then
feel the bulbs, are they down at room temperature or can you feel some
sensible heat.

More info from you will likely get us to the bottom of what's happening.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

"No, if the bulb loads are connected to the output of the
dimmer then my comments about phantom oltages are likely not
relavent. It certainly does not sound like they are working
properly if you see any voltage at all across the lamp loads
when the toggle lever is moved to full OFF."

Perhaps I mislead you earlier; let me clarify. The reading
of about 50 volts was not done with the bulbs as a load.
The house circuit was wired to the switch, and then the
leads from the voltmeter were attached to the output side of
the switch. At the time the switch was not mounted to the
housing, but rather suspended in air from the house wires.
Then the toggle lever was moved and readings noted.

We have not tested to see if the bulbs are warm after
several hours in the OFF position. That sounds like a good
test, and we have considered it, and will eventually do it.
Because of other wiring and construction going on in that
part of the house, requiring that certain circuits remain
shut down, it has not been practical to perform such a test
yet. I'll keep you posted on any new developments. If the
additional information provided in this post gives you
further insight, please share it.

Thanks, and best regards.

====================

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

"40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs
glow.
Are the bulb loads connected, and if so, do they glow?"

At full ON the bulbs are very bright. As the toggle
lever
is moved toward the OFF position the bulbs diminish in
brightness. With the lever horizontal (i.e., about half
way
between full ON and full OFF) the bulbs have dimmed
sufficient that one can barely see the lighted filament
inside. Moving the lever farther toward the full OFF
position results in that barely lighted filament
appearing
to disappear. However, I wonder if, at 48-50 volts, the
filament is hot enough to be visible through the frosted
bulbs.

He also wrote:

"If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a
limited knowledge of electronics and are probably
measuring
the output of those dimmers with an electronic (digital)
voltmeter which is responding to miniscule leakage
currents
that give you what's known as "phantom" voltage
readings."

True, I have a limited knowledge of electronics. The
output
was measured with a (medium priced - perhaps $40 from
Sears)
hand-held digital voltmeter, as follows: Line voltage
of
110? AC was on one side of the dimmer switch. At full
ON
the voltmeter read something like 116 or 118 volts. As
the
toggle lever on the switch was moved from full ON to
full
OFF the reading on the voltmeter dropped from 116 to 48
or
49 the first time we measured it. Second time it went
to 50
volts at full OFF. I don't understand what you mean by
"responding to miniscule leakage currents ... 'phantom'
voltage readings." Are you saying that what we observed
is
an artifact of the measurement device, and that in fact
there is no voltage flowing through the switch in the
fully
OFF position? That would be comforting in one sense
about
no safety hazard with the wiring beyond the switch, but
disturbing in the sense of never being sure whether the
voltmeter is accurate or not.

Any further elaboration/clarification you (or others)
can
provide would be appreciated.

Thanks.

========================

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...

CWLee wrote:

My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off
about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer
switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean

zero

volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


40 or 50 volts is enough to make incandescent bulbs
glow.

Are the bulb

loads connected, and if so, do they glow?

If the loads aren't connected I'm guessing you have a

limited knowledge

of electronics and are probably measuring the output of

those dimmers

with an electronic (digital) voltmeter which is
responding

to miniscule

leakage currents that give you what's known as "phantom"

voltage readings.

If connected bulb loads "turn off" OK, fughedit.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."




No, if the bulb loads are connected to the output of the
dimmer then my
comments about phantom oltages are likely not relavent. It
certainly
does not sound like they are working properly if you see
any voltage at
all across the lamp loads when the toggle lever is moved
to full OFF.

One thing you haven't revealed is justhow you are making
your measurements.

What are you measuring the voltage with respect to?
Specifically where
are the two voltmeter leads connected when you make your
measurements?

If the wall switch plates are in place is there a
possibility that the
plates are mechanically interfering with the toggle levers
and keeping
them from moving fully to their off positions?

It seems quite unlikely that TWO new dimmers would both be
defective.

And even if the bulb filaments aren't producing any
visible light with
40-50 volts across them they certainly will produce some
heat. If you
leave the toggle levers in their OFF position for several
hours and then
feel the bulbs, are they down at room temperature or can
you feel some
sensible heat.

More info from you will likely get us to the bottom of
what's happening.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

"No, if the bulb loads are connected to the output of the
dimmer then my comments about phantom oltages are likely not
relavent. It certainly does not sound like they are working
properly if you see any voltage at all across the lamp loads
when the toggle lever is moved to full OFF."

Perhaps I mislead you earlier; let me clarify. The reading
of about 50 volts was not done with the bulbs as a load.
The house circuit was wired to the switch, and then the
leads from the voltmeter were attached to the output side of
the switch. At the time the switch was not mounted to the
housing, but rather suspended in air from the house wires.
Then the toggle lever was moved and readings noted.

We have not tested to see if the bulbs are warm after
several hours in the OFF position. That sounds like a good
test, and we have considered it, and will eventually do it.
Because of other wiring and construction going on in that
part of the house, requiring that certain circuits remain
shut down, it has not been practical to perform such a test
yet. I'll keep you posted on any new developments. If the
additional information provided in this post gives you
further insight, please share it.

Thanks, and best regards.

====================


snipped my previous blatherings...

I'd bet what's left of my virginity against a cigarette butt that if you
make the voltage measurement you described WITH the bulb loads connected
you'll see the voltage goes to zero when the slider is all the way down.

That 40-50 volts you measured was a "phantom" voltage developed by
miniscule leakage currents, too low to even fry a mosquito, flowing
through the megohms high input impedance of your voltmeter.

Capice?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

According to Jeff Wisnia :
CWLee wrote:

Perhaps I mislead you earlier; let me clarify. The reading
of about 50 volts was not done with the bulbs as a load.
The house circuit was wired to the switch, and then the
leads from the voltmeter were attached to the output side of
the switch. At the time the switch was not mounted to the
housing, but rather suspended in air from the house wires.
Then the toggle lever was moved and readings noted.

We have not tested to see if the bulbs are warm after
several hours in the OFF position. That sounds like a good
test, and we have considered it, and will eventually do it.
Because of other wiring and construction going on in that
part of the house, requiring that certain circuits remain
shut down, it has not been practical to perform such a test
yet. I'll keep you posted on any new developments. If the
additional information provided in this post gives you
further insight, please share it.

snipped my previous blatherings...

I'd bet what's left of my virginity against a cigarette butt that if you
make the voltage measurement you described WITH the bulb loads connected
you'll see the voltage goes to zero when the slider is all the way down.

That 40-50 volts you measured was a "phantom" voltage developed by
miniscule leakage currents, too low to even fry a mosquito, flowing
through the megohms high input impedance of your voltmeter.

It is _extremely_ misleading to measure the output voltage of a
dimmer with a high impedance meter (eg: DVM) with no load (eg:
a bulb) attached. Especially cheap DVMs. Even when a load
is connected, it will be somewhat misleading.

A dimmer operates by chopping up the waveforms. Which means a lot
of "off state", which can show as relatively high voltage unless
it's loaded. Secondly, unless it's a true integrating DVM, voltage
measurements are somewhat meaningless on chopped wave forms - even
at full dim (but not quite off), the voltage seen by the load is
still peaking at 160V.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

This may be too simple an idea but...

Sometimes the dimmer doesn't get really turned off. This is typically
on "Preset" dimmers. Basically there are two controls, one dims the
other turns it off. If the off part isn't obvious then lots of folks
think it's off but it isn't.

I can't count how many slide or knob dimmers I've seen that aren't
quite off.

RickR

CWLee wrote:
My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.

I've read the various responses to date and they all have valid points. IFF
you're still confused, here's a definitive test you can use that will verify
whether the voltages are phantom or not.

With the same setup you've been using, measuring at the same place, find a
way to put a resistive load across the two points where you're measuring. A
standard light bulb will work fine.
Place the light bulb or resistor connections across the points you are
measuring. If the voltage drops to 0.0V, then it's phantom voltages and
nothing to worry about in any way. If it doesn't drop to 0.0, then there is
current available in the wires and something IS wrong, OR as another poster
noted, it doesn't switch all the way off by design.
If the voltage stays above, say, 30 V, then be VERY careful as there is a
possibility that it's high enough to hurt you if you get across those wires!
I'm going to suggest that won't happen; the voltage will go to 0.0 as you
place the bulb across the connected meter probes.

A handy little gizmo that makes it easier to measure like this is one of
those things you can screw a light bulb into and then plug it into a
standard receptable. Available at most hw stores. It's easier to hook
wires to the prongs of the device than to try to hold them against the bare
bulb base and center piece. Also safer for you and for your wiring should
you slip and it's not phantom voltagesg.
If you use a resistor instead of hte bulb, and have to buy one at RS or
wherever, get one about 2k ohms. That meanst about 2,000 ohms.
For safety sake, be CERTAIN to NEVER let more than one part of your body
(hand) contact anything metal at any time. Don't even try it if there is
any standing water around.

The other, probably simpler alternative, is to simply temporarily hook up
the lights, turn the power on, and measure the same points. See what the
voltages do then; I'm betting they'll go to 0.0 from around 120. It'd just
about have to if the dimmer is working.
This IS of course, a dimmer intended to dim flourescent lights, right?
If it's incandescent only, then you also have the wrong type of dimmer.

HTH,
Pop

Pop`ö wrote:

CWLee wrote:

My son recently replaced two wall on-off switches with
dimmer switches, new from Home Depot or Lowe's, for me.
They work fine and control incandescent lights. He
discovered, however, that even when completely off about
48-50 volts still flow through the new dimmer switches -
both of them.

We are both puzzled. We assumed that off would mean zero
volts. If this is normal isn't it a safety hazard?

Any insight appreciated.


snipped

This IS of course, a dimmer intended to dim flourescent lights, right?
If it's incandescent only, then you also have the wrong type of dimmer.

HTH,
Pop

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling flourescents, Pop?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling
flourescents, Pop?

The dimmers are NOT controlling fluorescent lights. They
control incandescent lights.

Another bit of clarification, in case it makes a difference.
These dimmer switches are not the kind with a sliding knob.
These are the kind that, from 4+ feet away, look just like
standard ON-OFF home wall switches.

Still puzzled, but with some good information and
suggestions for further research.

Thanks.

How about a make and model on these guys.

RickR

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling
flourescents, Pop?

The dimmers are NOT controlling fluorescent lights. They
control incandescent lights.

Another bit of clarification, in case it makes a difference.
These dimmer switches are not the kind with a sliding knob.
These are the kind that, from 4+ feet away, look just like
standard ON-OFF home wall switches.

Still puzzled, but with some good information and
suggestions for further research.

Thanks.

"RickR" wrote

How about a make and model on these guys.

The original boxes have been trashed, but here is what I
find on the switches themselves:

Leviton
6842
Dimmer

(It is possible that the number is 8842; very small print)

120 VAC
60 HZ
Incandescent use only.

These were purchased from a local Home Depot on 5.30.06, and
the ID info shown on the receipt, which may also be the UPC
code, is:

07847769639 CS120 Ivory

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.

=============================


RickR

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling
flourescents, Pop?

The dimmers are NOT controlling fluorescent lights.
They
control incandescent lights.

Another bit of clarification, in case it makes a
difference.
These dimmer switches are not the kind with a sliding
knob.
These are the kind that, from 4+ feet away, look just
like
standard ON-OFF home wall switches.

Still puzzled, but with some good information and
suggestions for further research.

Thanks.

I may have missed it but where were the voltage readings taken? Just
for curious sake.

Hot to neutral or ground?
Hot to switch leg in the switch box?
Switch leg to neutral or ground?

If I am not mistaken:
If you take a switch out of the wall and replace it with a dimmer. You
may very well get a voltage reading of 50v, reading from the hot to
the switch leg with the dimmer UNINSTALLED and the load still
connected to the switchleg
If the switch leg has the load tied into it your meter will definetly
will see a differnce in potential.

Just curious.



On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:07:02 -0700, "CWLee"
wrote:


"RickR" wrote

How about a make and model on these guys.

The original boxes have been trashed, but here is what I
find on the switches themselves:

Leviton
6842
Dimmer

(It is possible that the number is 8842; very small print)

120 VAC
60 HZ
Incandescent use only.

These were purchased from a local Home Depot on 5.30.06, and
the ID info shown on the receipt, which may also be the UPC
code, is:

07847769639 CS120 Ivory

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.

=============================


RickR

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling
flourescents, Pop?

The dimmers are NOT controlling fluorescent lights.
They
control incandescent lights.

Another bit of clarification, in case it makes a
difference.
These dimmer switches are not the kind with a sliding
knob.
These are the kind that, from 4+ feet away, look just
like
standard ON-OFF home wall switches.

Still puzzled, but with some good information and
suggestions for further research.

Thanks.

"Tazz" wrote

I may have missed it but where were the voltage readings
taken? Just
for curious sake.

I'm unsophisticated in electrical terminology, but I'll try
to tell you what we did so you can decide.

Picture two wires coming from the breaker box. One of these
two wires was then connected to the input side of the dimmer
switch. Then the digital voltmeter leads were attached to
the other wire, and to the output side of the dimmer switch.
No other load involved. Voltmeter set to read AC. As the
toggle on the dimmer was moved from full ON slowly to full
OFF the voltage shown on the voltmeter dropped slowly from
around 120 volts ac to around 50 volts ac.

Make sense?

Thanks for sharing any insights you get from this.

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.

==============================


Hot to neutral or ground?
Hot to switch leg in the switch box?
Switch leg to neutral or ground?

If I am not mistaken:
If you take a switch out of the wall and replace it with a
dimmer. You
may very well get a voltage reading of 50v, reading from
the hot to
the switch leg with the dimmer UNINSTALLED and the load
still
connected to the switchleg
If the switch leg has the load tied into it your meter
will definetly
will see a differnce in potential.

Just curious.



On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:07:02 -0700, "CWLee"
wrote:


"RickR" wrote

How about a make and model on these guys.

The original boxes have been trashed, but here is what I
find on the switches themselves:

Leviton
6842
Dimmer

(It is possible that the number is 8842; very small
print)

120 VAC
60 HZ
Incandescent use only.

These were purchased from a local Home Depot on 5.30.06,
and
the ID info shown on the receipt, which may also be the
UPC
code, is:

07847769639 CS120 Ivory

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.

=============================


RickR

CWLee wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote

Where did he say those dimmers were controlling
flourescents, Pop?

The dimmers are NOT controlling fluorescent lights.
They
control incandescent lights.

Another bit of clarification, in case it makes a
difference.
These dimmer switches are not the kind with a sliding
knob.
These are the kind that, from 4+ feet away, look just
like
standard ON-OFF home wall switches.

Still puzzled, but with some good information and
suggestions for further research.

Thanks.

According to CWLee :

Picture two wires coming from the breaker box. One of these
two wires was then connected to the input side of the dimmer
switch. Then the digital voltmeter leads were attached to
the other wire, and to the output side of the dimmer switch.
No other load involved. Voltmeter set to read AC. As the
toggle on the dimmer was moved from full ON slowly to full
OFF the voltage shown on the voltmeter dropped slowly from
around 120 volts ac to around 50 volts ac.

DVMs should not be trusted to read the output of dimmers,
_especially_ when there's no load on the dimmer.

DVMs have such high impedance, they can read phantom induced
voltages off wires that aren't connected to anything.

If you attach the bulb to the dimmer too, you will get a somewhat
more reliable reading.

Secondly, dimmers, as they get closer to the fully dimmed
out state are generating a voltage waveform that's rather
far away from a sine wave. Unless it's a very good quality
DVM, it can display grossly misleading readings.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"RickR" wrote:

I found a #6643 and a #6641 toggle dimmer which match your
description
closely, but no 6842 or other close variations.

Mystery to me too. I have now taken a magnification glass
and flashlight to the switch, and can confirm that the
number is 6842. It is not printed, but "engraved" or
perhaps stamped onto the metal.

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.

=================

Something a I should have mentioned earlier;
Dimmers are suposed to have an "air gap" off, somewhere
somehow. No
ghost voltages no little glowing lights OFF!

Look for it! If you can't find it, take it back!

RickR

CWLee wrote:
"RickR" wrote

How about a make and model on these guys.

The original boxes have been trashed, but here is what I
find on the switches themselves:

Leviton
6842
Dimmer

(It is possible that the number is 8842; very small
print)

120 VAC
60 HZ
Incandescent use only.

These were purchased from a local Home Depot on 5.30.06,
and
the ID info shown on the receipt, which may also be the
UPC
code, is:

07847769639 CS120 Ivory

Best regards,

Chuck Lee.