Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.


I know what you mean. I haven't had this problem with Craftsman (Sears)
screwdrivers, but I don't find their handles to be very comfortable. You
might try Snap-On. Expensive, but nice handles. Order online, or flag down
one of their trucks.

The other issue is that a lot of hardware these days is crap, so even with
the best screwdriver, you have to be much more careful than in the past.

Klein screwdriver - Can be found in the electrical tools department of
most home centers. Don't know what is different about them but they
are incredible, I'll never be without one after buying one.

Don't worry about the screwdriver. A cheap one from sears, or even home
depot, or heaven forbid mal-wart, should be fine for any particular
job. A cheap one will wear out quicker, but should work fine for the
time being.

Are the holes pre-drilled? Is the furniture metal, plastic, wood or
something else? Try these ideas:
1 - Put some soap on the screws (scrape them over a bar of hand soap)
to help them go in.
2 - Drill a pilot hole. Should be small, just smaller than the screw
would be if the threads were not there.
3 - Clean out the pilot hole using a drill, if there is a hole already.
4 - Use a different screw, one more appropriate for the materials. Or
if needed, use one with a hex head and use a socket wrench to drive it
in.

-Kevin

Any screw driver with a hardened tip will outlast
most jobs. Even the regular craftsman screw drivers
are good, even better is that if they fail, they'll replace them
for nada.

Tom

kevin wrote:
Don't worry about the screwdriver. A cheap one from sears, or even
home depot, or heaven forbid mal-wart, should be fine for any
particular job. A cheap one will wear out quicker, but should work
fine for the time being.

You must be a light user or easily pleased. I have had new screwdrivers
(my sister, God love her) as often had me over to fix something and does not
always tell me about the repair until I am there. She may have a nice new
screwdriver, and maybe it is even the right size, but she always buys cheap.
I seldom able to complete a job with it. I finally bought her (really me) a
few good tools.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Good ones, craftsman, snap-on, mastercraft have lifetime warranties.

Crappy tools damage things.

There isn't a better line of screwdrivers than Snap-On. The only thing
that'll shock you more than the price is how well they work. Flag down
one of their trucks and buy a couple of phillips, at least.


-rev

On 1 May 2006 07:34:43 -0700, wrote:

Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.

I avoid "buying" the "chrome plated" varieties. A hardened steel as
mentioned is the best option IMO. In a pinch I've been known to file
a slotted screwdriver tip to get through a task or repair a broken
tip.

The Sunday paper often has "sets" on sale at Sears. Are they best?
Don't know but I can get a free replacement if necessary. I think
electricians have the most expensive screwdrivers.

Pick the right screwdriver for the screw...saves on damage to both.

Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

wrote:
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

My solution is to buy one that accepts removeable driver bits - either wire
or ball indent. Not only are the removeable bits harder (usually) but they
are cheap and replaceable if they get damaged. Moreover, you can get them
for any type/size screw head...slot, Phillips, square, torx, etc. IOW, one
bit holder - preferably with bit storage - is all you ever need in the
majority of situations. If you need something to apply more torque, the
bits will fit in a brace.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Klein indeed--excellent tools.
But bring over the deed to yer house.... goodgawd....
HD sells them, tho--in the locked cabinet. I think the guy then escorts you
to the checkout line and stands with you....

Imo, the BEST, ito of raw bang-fer-yer-buck and *tremendous* utility, are
the 4-in-1, 5-in-1, 6-in-1-style screwdrivers. All have double ended
removable tips, for two std. phillips sizes, and two slotted. The 4-in-1 is
really an under-labeled 5-in-1, cuz it also has a hex nutdriver.
The 6-in-1 uses two different hex sizes for holding the tips, ergo 4+2=6.
Fits things like hose clamp screws, hex sheetmetal screws, tapcon, etc.
Very, very, very handy.

And National Wholesale Liquidator has (or had) very nice ones for $2.99 or
3.99. I bought about 8! Good fitting handle (sort of like snap-on) as
well, much more comfortable than sears. You can pull out the shaft for
quick spinning as well, or put a wrench on the hex-shaft tips for close
quarter work.
Reasonably good steel.
At times the shaft may not be as narrow or as long as you would like, but
those times are rare.

However, standard screwgun type tips do not fit these x-in-1s, altho the std
screwgun type tips will fit in other std multiple-tip 'drivers, which also
can be very good--except you *always* loose the tips! Yeah, they store in
the handle, but....

Another hallmark of a good slotted 'driver is when the tips are
hollow-ground, ie, the tip "curves" into a parallel tip.

Absolutely useless are the new "Shooters", that load a magazine of tips like
a revolver. Brilliant design, great idea, that has only one real purpose:
Powerful marketing.
The tips suck, the handle sucks, it can't fit in any tight quarters, etc.
But it's really neat to load and fool around with, iffin yer not innerested
in doin any real work.

Reminds me of these g-d 16-speed drill presses, which, if you actually study
the speed chart (if you can even comprehend it) has *fewer useful speeds
than a normal 4 or 5 speed press* !

Go figger.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
Klein screwdriver - Can be found in the electrical tools department of
most home centers. Don't know what is different about them but they
are incredible, I'll never be without one after buying one.

From a raw selection POV, agreed.
But get extra tips, cuz yer always gonna lose'em.
Good to have one of these anyway, if you're a DIYer.

But the 6-in-1 I crowed about is good for virttually all general work. I've
considered carrying one in my briefcase.

BTW, HF has a 100 pc set of "security tips", for about $10, that fits the
multiple tip jobby--which I think is 1/4" hex. Guaranteed, tho, to be
crappy crappy un-heat-treated steel, but for the occasional pinch, proly
well worth it.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:78r5g.8538$O_6.5328@trnddc08...
wrote:
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

My solution is to buy one that accepts removeable driver bits - either
wire
or ball indent. Not only are the removeable bits harder (usually) but
they
are cheap and replaceable if they get damaged. Moreover, you can get them
for any type/size screw head...slot, Phillips, square, torx, etc. IOW,
one
bit holder - preferably with bit storage - is all you ever need in the
majority of situations. If you need something to apply more torque, the
bits will fit in a brace.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 1 May 2006 10:01:13 -0700, "kevin" wrote:

Oh, come now, no need to get snippy J. For a guy that, for all we can
tell, and from the sound of his post, will use this screwdriver maybe
once more in the next 20 years, any screwdriver should work for putting
in the half dozen screws into his futon or whatever. I didn't say that
I would be happy with such tools, or that you should use such tools, or
that such tools will work fine over the long term, or for average
do-it-yourself-type people. I said that for any single particular job
this guy is likely to encounter, the screwdriver should not matter.

I agree that if he is turning the screwdriver hard enough to damage
it, it ought** to be enough to get the screws in. And your
recomendations about soap etc. were right on.

No expert I, and I don't know the details of manufacturing, but one
thing that marks a screwdriver as cheap is a shiny flat surface. By
flat I mean without small grooves parallel to the end of the flat
blade screwdriver.

And I've never actually looked at a screwdriver that's never been
reground, but it should be a little thinner a little bit back from the
end, certainly not thicker. If thicker, twisting it will force it,
lift it, out of the slot. If thinner, the edge at the end will bite
into the slot in the screw and it will stay there. I only saw this in
instructions for regrinding a tip, after it breaks.


**This applies to flat-blade, which I think the OP is talking about.
Cheap and and maybe medium priced phillips head screwdrivers will wear
out easily, if twisted hard. So after years of cheap screwsdrivers, I
bought name brands, Stanley, whatever. I used to work at a steel
company, but I don't know why the cheap steel used in cheap drivers
woudl save much money, considering how little steel is there.
worthwhile difference in price to use a softer steel. Hmmm. Maybe it
is harder to make a screwdriver blade when one starts with strong hard
steel.

-Kevin

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good
quality screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I
could just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably
won't have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard
earned cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.


I know what you mean. I haven't had this problem with Craftsman
(Sears) screwdrivers, but I don't find their handles to be very
comfortable. You might try Snap-On. Expensive, but nice handles. Order
online, or flag down one of their trucks.

The other issue is that a lot of hardware these days is crap, so even
with the best screwdriver, you have to be much more careful than in
the past.




I prefer the magnetic screwdriver handles with the hex tip inserts;they
usually are a harder material than the one-piece screwdrivers.Plus for bit
selection you can get straight,Phillips,Pozi-drive,square drive,hex
drive,Torx drive...
And bit sets usually come with a holder that you can chuck in a cordless
drill/driver.
Magna Products brand has a really good handle,excellent grip.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Hard to describe what to look for- quality of plating (avoid the shiny ones
if you see bumps in the chrome), quality of handle (the shaft should go into
handle most of the way), obvious ripple and bubble in the molded plastic
means junk, usually. A big test is how the tool feels in your hand. Quickest
way to learn is hold a cheap one and a good one at the same time- the 'feel'
will be different. The quality tool will feel like part of your hand. Like I
said, hard to describe.

But, failing that, unless you wanna blow a fortune on SnapOn or some other
fancy brand, I'd just go buy whatever Craftsman set Sears has on sale this
week. And do buy a set- you get 4 or 5 for the price of 2 purchased off the
onesie rack. Many other brands are as good, but if you trash a Craftsman
hand tool, they will still replace it free. (except for torque wrenches,
IIRC.) At one point, same supplier also made the Kobalt tools for home
despot, but that may not be true anymore. People on here **** all over
Craftsman, but I've had good luck with mine, at least the non-powered tools.

BTW, when assembling furniture, beeswax, or even plain old Ivory bar soap,
smeared on the screw threads, makes a world of difference. No water, just
drag the screw across the dry bar a couple of times.

aem sends...

wrote in message
ups.com...
As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good
quality screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I
could just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably
won't have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard
earned cash.

I've yet to find a screwdriver that was both good and cheap. The better
ones have handles with larger, more comfortable grips. I don't know what
brands are available, but price is definitely a factor. I have a good
Stanley, but Stanley also make a cheap line. Same with Craftsman. Some
Phillips drivers have a hardened tip too.

If you have a lot of screws to drive, consider getting an inexpensive
electric drill and putting a bit holder in it and using that. Be sure the
pilot hole is the right size too, and maybe a touch of wax on the screw.

RayV wrote:
Klein screwdriver - Can be found in the electrical tools department of
most home centers. Don't know what is different about them but they
are incredible, I'll never be without one after buying one.

Amen- about anything with the Klein name is tops, IMHO. I'm
at retirement age, and was using Klein linesmen pliers,
cutters and other tools I bought from my first paycheck as a
high schooler.

Mark

I have found Craftsman screwdrivers from Sears [the ones with the lifetime
warranty] are pretty good. I got a cheap screwdriver once and the blade
actually bent while tightening down a screw! Rubbermaid makes a pretty nice
screwdriver [see Amazon link below] that has ratchet action and removable
tips that store in the handle that are plenty strong. The comfortable larger
handle also allows you to easily put more torque into the job. I also
recommend that you look into getting a cordless drill to use for driving
screws. I have a Bosch Impactor impact driver that I now use for anything
that involves much screw driving. I just built a work bench and had to
drive 50 2 1/2 inch screws to complete and it made that job a piece of
ke. --- Steve

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.

wrote:
Hi guys.

I was putting together some furniture today & the screws were
infuriatingly difficult to get in. I could barely generate enough
force to turn them. As I progressed I noticed my screwdriver was
chipping &/or flaking away at the point.

I'm assuming I have a cheap screwdriver. I want to buy a good quality
screwdriver but don't want to get another cheapo. I'm sure I could
just buy the most expensive screwdriver I can find & I probably won't
have a problem but I like to know why I am spending my hard earned
cash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanx 4 looking.

Hi,
Job for a power driver.

On Mon, 1 May 2006 13:15:47 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

From a raw selection POV, agreed.
But get extra tips, cuz yer always gonna lose'em.
Good to have one of these anyway, if you're a DIYer.

But the 6-in-1 I crowed about is good for virttually all general work. I've
considered carrying one in my briefcase.

BTW, HF has a 100 pc set of "security tips", for about $10, that fits the
multiple tip jobby--which I think is 1/4" hex. Guaranteed, tho, to be
crappy crappy un-heat-treated steel, but for the occasional pinch, proly
well worth it.

I didn't buybuy them from HF, but I have a set of about 100 tips, and
it's great to have these obscure tips. Especially for taking apart
B&Decker applicances and other such things. I even lent one to a
friend who does repairs for a living.

I have a B&D "tire inflator" that was broken and on the plug for the
cigarettlighter says, something like No user serviceable parts inside.

Didn't work. had to drill out rivets. Replaced a fuse. 25 cents.
They lied.

On Tue, 02 May 2006 00:43:06 GMT, "ameijers"
wrote:


Hard to describe what to look for- quality of plating (avoid the shiny ones
if you see bumps in the chrome), quality of handle (the shaft should go into
handle most of the way)

Of course only the ones with translucent plastic make this apparent.

I have a flat-blade screwdriver my father bought in the 40's or 50's
with a wood handle, but the top inch is amber colored plastic, so that
one can see the shaft goes all the way up.


, obvious ripple and bubble in the molded plastic
means junk, usually. A big test is how the tool feels in your hand. Quickest
way to learn is hold a cheap one and a good one at the same time- the 'feel'
will be different. The quality tool will feel like part of your hand. Like I
said, hard to describe.

mm wrote:

On 1 May 2006 10:01:13 -0700, "kevin" wrote:


Oh, come now, no need to get snippy J. For a guy that, for all we can
tell, and from the sound of his post, will use this screwdriver maybe
once more in the next 20 years, any screwdriver should work for putting
in the half dozen screws into his futon or whatever. I didn't say that
I would be happy with such tools, or that you should use such tools, or
that such tools will work fine over the long term, or for average
do-it-yourself-type people. I said that for any single particular job
this guy is likely to encounter, the screwdriver should not matter.


I agree that if he is turning the screwdriver hard enough to damage
it, it ought** to be enough to get the screws in. And your
recomendations about soap etc. were right on.

Ah, but what about getting tough screws OUT? That's where the quality of
the screwdriver tip really matters. I tried using someone's cheap
screwdriver to get a Phillips head screw started out last week and the
damn screwdriver tip rounded off almost as though it were made of lead,
with nary a bit of damage to the screw head.

Fortunately the item the screw was in was small enough and shaped so I
was able to place it under the quill of my drill press, with a Phillips
bit in the chuck and bear down with the quill handle while I pulled the
chuck around with a strap wrench. That did the trick.

I got that idea because way back when you used to use a "wheel operated
screwdriver" to bust loose the flat head slot screws which held the pole
pieces into the cases of automobile starters and generators. They looked
like the illustration at the bottom of this page:

http://tinyurl.com/mt57b

No expert I, and I don't know the details of manufacturing, but one
thing that marks a screwdriver as cheap is a shiny flat surface. By
flat I mean without small grooves parallel to the end of the flat
blade screwdriver.

And I've never actually looked at a screwdriver that's never been
reground, but it should be a little thinner a little bit back from the
end, certainly not thicker. If thicker, twisting it will force it,
lift it, out of the slot. If thinner, the edge at the end will bite
into the slot in the screw and it will stay there. I only saw this in
instructions for regrinding a tip, after it breaks.

A gunsmith tought me how to sharpen a flat blade screwdriver properly
when I was a kid, and I always do it the way he showed me. Like you just
said, the business end of the blade should not get wider until it's
above the depth of the screw slot. Most important is to finish grinding
or filing the tip sides with strokes at right angles to the blade
length. That leaves scratches which dig into the sides of the screw slot
and further help prevent it from camming out.



**This applies to flat-blade, which I think the OP is talking about.
Cheap and and maybe medium priced phillips head screwdrivers will wear
out easily, if twisted hard. So after years of cheap screwsdrivers, I
bought name brands, Stanley, whatever. I used to work at a steel
company, but I don't know why the cheap steel used in cheap drivers
woudl save much money, considering how little steel is there.
worthwhile difference in price to use a softer steel. Hmmm. Maybe it
is harder to make a screwdriver blade when one starts with strong hard
steel.

-Kevin




Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Also check out Irwin. Available at electric supply houses
and good hardware stores. www.irwin.com

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
Klein screwdriver - Can be found in the electrical tools
department of
most home centers. Don't know what is different about
them but they
are incredible, I'll never be without one after buying
one.

Mys Terry wrote in
:



A little valve grinding compound on the tip of a screwdriver adds an
amazing amount of grip.




Which is better;to have the screwdriver tip twist and/or chip,or the screw-
slot tear up?

That's why I prefer the magnetic holder driver with
replaceable,interchangeable tips,with a wide selection of tip styles
readily available.

And the tips are harder than the screw heads.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Thanx 4 all the replies guys. You've given me a lot to look into.

Mys Terry wrote in
:

On 3 May 2006 00:15:56 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

Mys Terry wrote in
m:



A little valve grinding compound on the tip of a screwdriver adds an
amazing amount of grip.




Which is better;to have the screwdriver tip twist and/or chip,or the
screw- slot tear up?

That's why I prefer the magnetic holder driver with
replaceable,interchangeable tips,with a wide selection of tip styles
readily available.

And the tips are harder than the screw heads.

What is your point? If you use a little valve grinding compound, the
likelyhood of both of those issues is reduced.




Grip may be improved,but that does not prevent the blade tip from twisting
(literally bending) if the screw does not turn,if it's too soft a metal.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

wrote in
oups.com:

Are the best screwdrivers made only of tempered steel? Does titanium
plating add or detract from the quality of tools?



Titanium NITRIDING(TiN),which is that golden colored plating on some tools
like drill bits,is to retain a sharp cutting edge longer,and reduce wear.
It would have no use for a screwdriver.It might make it slip MORE.


Who makes screwdrivers that are Ti plated? (or TiN plated?)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net