I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones? it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.

"SeaKan" in
:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs.
question: my light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I
could get a bulb higher than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones?
it uses less wattage, much lower than 60.

AFAIK, teh max wattage rating is actually a max heat rating, that assumes you're using
incandescent bulb. if a more efficient bulb uses lower watts (for same or greater lumens)
then it produces less heat.

related thing to look for: some of the compact fluorescent bulbs are labeled, that they can't
be used in a closed fixture.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones?

The new ones aren't actually rated at 60 watts. Instead they are rated
at 15 watts with a statement that they give light equivalent to a 60
watt bulb.

Since their big advantage is that they use less electricity, it's
unlikely t hey will ever be labeled as using more electricity than
they use.

it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.



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right, the question is more "should i base my light fixture usage by watts,
not lumens?" right now i use a normal 60 watt bulb. but can i get one of
the new ones that uses less than 60 watts, but puts out more light than a
normal sixty watt bulb?" make sense/

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question:
my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb
higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones?

The new ones aren't actually rated at 60 watts. Instead they are rated
at 15 watts with a statement that they give light equivalent to a 60
watt bulb.

Since their big advantage is that they use less electricity, it's
unlikely t hey will ever be labeled as using more electricity than
they use.

it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.



Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my

Excellent, I use compact Fluorescent bulbs, and an added feature, I
rarely ever have to replace bulbs in my house.

light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones? it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.


Fluorescent are rated by power consumption too, like regular bulbs. If
the new bulb is less than 60 watts, then it uses less electricity.
Now what I think you're asking is, can you have a brighter one,
lumen's. The amount of light a bulb puts out is usually listed on the
box as lumen's. If you pickup a regular bulb you want to have
lighting an area, and then read it's lumen, you can then look for a
compatible fluorescent bulb that puts out the same amount of light.
Usually 1/4-1/3 the power consumption of a regular bulb.

hth, and ask for help at your local home improvement store.

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:46:00 -0700, Random Netizen
wrote:


Not all CF bulbs are created equal, though - some take a few seconds to reach maximum
brightness, and some don't work as well at lower temperatures. Personally, I've had good

All true. And I don't think they give the broad range of frequencies
that incandescent lamps give. AIUI they just give the frequency that
the gas inside fluoresces at. Maybe there is more than one gas and
2 or 3 frequencies, although I haven't heard that, but 2 or 3 is still
too few.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I wouldn't want one to be the
sole source of light in a room, but I'm willing to use it for an
outdoor or close light where no one will be using it for long, or the
basement where there are two fixtures, and one has a regular bulb.

experiences with the CF bulbs made by Philips.

A

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In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:46:00 -0700, Random Netizen
wrote:

And I don't think they give the broad range of frequencies
that incandescent lamps give. AIUI they just give the frequency that
the gas inside fluoresces at. Maybe there is more than one gas and
2 or 3 frequencies, although I haven't heard that, but 2 or 3 is still
too few.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I wouldn't want one to be the
sole source of light in a room, but I'm willing to use it for an
outdoor or close light where no one will be using it for long, or the
basement where there are two fixtures, and one has a regular bulb.

The usual 2700K compact fluorescents have a rated color rendering index
of 82 and have 4 major spectral components and some minor ones.

The major ones a

1. A violetish blue mercury wavelength (436 nm)
2. A phosphor band in the green-blue to blue-green (roughly 480-490 nm)
3. A phosphor band in the slightly yellowish green with a strong mercury
wavelength nearby (542 and 546 nm)
4. A phosphor wavelength in the orange-red (611 nm)

There are weaker mercury wavelengths in the violet and yellow, and weaker
phosphor wavelengths in the orange and red.

The red, green and blue photoreceptors in human vision each receive
about as much stimulation from a usual compact fluorescent as from an
incandescent of the same light output. Scotopic photoreceptors get a
little less but not a whole lot less.

My main complaint about the spectrum of compact fluorescents is that
pure red objects often look a bit orangish. I would in most circumstances
light a room entirely with fluorescent light.

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones? it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.

As it turns out, a watt into a compact fluorescent heats up the fixture
more than a watt going into an incandescent because the incandescent
throws out a lot of infrared and the compact fluorescent doesn't.

I did a bit of testing with a few different lightbulbs and a non-contact
thermometer and in my limited testing a 42 watt compact fluorescent heats
up a fixture as much as a 60 watt incandescent does, maybe slightly worse.

So, I believe that compact fluorescents up to 30 watts will not overheat
fixtures rated for 60 watt max incandescent, and 42 watt ones either won't
overheat such a fixture or barely will overheat such a fixture.

The biggest heat problem is that most compact fluorescents do not take
heat buildup well in small enclosed fixtures and downward-facing fixtures.
I think that by-and-large and generally, such fixtures will have compact
fluorescents up to 23 watts not overheating too badly and compact
fluorescents over 23 watts are likely to have severely shortened life from
heat buildup.

23 watt compact fluorescents have light output between that of 75 watt
and 100 watt incandescents.

- Don Klipstein , http://www.misty.com/~don/cfx.html)

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 01:36:34 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:46:00 -0700, Random Netizen
wrote:

And I don't think they give the broad range of frequencies
that incandescent lamps give. AIUI they just give the frequency that
the gas inside fluoresces at. Maybe there is more than one gas and
2 or 3 frequencies, although I haven't heard that, but 2 or 3 is still
too few.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I wouldn't want one to be the
sole source of light in a room, but I'm willing to use it for an
outdoor or close light where no one will be using it for long, or the
| |
FTR, I meant closet light.

basement where there are two fixtures, and one has a regular bulb.

The usual 2700K compact fluorescents have a rated color rendering index
of 82 and have 4 major spectral components and some minor ones.

The major ones a

1. A violetish blue mercury wavelength (436 nm)
2. A phosphor band in the green-blue to blue-green (roughly 480-490 nm)
3. A phosphor band in the slightly yellowish green with a strong mercury
wavelength nearby (542 and 546 nm)
4. A phosphor wavelength in the orange-red (611 nm)

There are weaker mercury wavelengths in the violet and yellow, and weaker
phosphor wavelengths in the orange and red.

The red, green and blue photoreceptors in human vision each receive
about as much stimulation from a usual compact fluorescent as from an
incandescent of the same light output. Scotopic photoreceptors get a
little less but not a whole lot less.

My main complaint about the spectrum of compact fluorescents is that
pure red objects often look a bit orangish. I would in most circumstances
light a room entirely with fluorescent light.

Well this is a lot more than I thought,-- thanks -- and it surprises
me that none of the packaging says anytyhing about this, afaik.

I'll have to let my eyes be my guide. (So far the bulbs are too long
to go a lot of places I have light bubls anyhow.)

- Don Klipstein )


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Don Klipstein wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones? it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.


As it turns out, a watt into a compact fluorescent heats up the fixture
more than a watt going into an incandescent because the incandescent
throws out a lot of infrared and the compact fluorescent doesn't.

I did a bit of testing with a few different lightbulbs and a non-contact
thermometer and in my limited testing a 42 watt compact fluorescent heats
up a fixture as much as a 60 watt incandescent does, maybe slightly worse.

So, I believe that compact fluorescents up to 30 watts will not overheat
fixtures rated for 60 watt max incandescent, and 42 watt ones either won't
overheat such a fixture or barely will overheat such a fixture.

Maybe but my experience with a 13 watt CF with the
bulb facing downward to replace a 60W
incandescent was not encouraging. Lasted a few
months and went fizzle. No way would I attempt to
replace a 60W incandescent with a 30W or even a
22W CF.

Outside in an open but protected fixture the same
brand and size bulb has been fine.


The biggest heat problem is that most compact fluorescents do not take
heat buildup well in small enclosed fixtures and downward-facing fixtures.
I think that by-and-large and generally, such fixtures will have compact
fluorescents up to 23 watts not overheating too badly and compact
fluorescents over 23 watts are likely to have severely shortened life from
heat buildup.



23 watt compact fluorescents have light output between that of 75 watt
and 100 watt incandescents.

- Don Klipstein , http://www.misty.com/~don/cfx.html)

In article , mm wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 01:36:34 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:46:00 -0700, Random Netizen
wrote:

And I don't think they give the broad range of frequencies
that incandescent lamps give. AIUI they just give the frequency that
the gas inside fluoresces at. Maybe there is more than one gas and
2 or 3 frequencies, although I haven't heard that, but 2 or 3 is still
too few.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I wouldn't want one to be the
sole source of light in a room, but I'm willing to use it for an
outdoor or close light where no one will be using it for long, or the
| |
FTR, I meant closet light.

For unrelated reasons, I recommend against compact fluorescents for
closet lights. Closet lights normally have on-time so low as to have low
need for energy efficiency and on-time short enough to have a major impact
on operating-hours life expectancy of fluorescents - compact or otherwise.

SNIP

I'll have to let my eyes be my guide. (So far the bulbs are too long
to go a lot of places I have light bubls anyhow.)

Spirals of wattage up to 13-15 watts generally do a good job of fitting
where incandescents fit, and at least some 9-watt ones with light output
of a 40 watt incandescent are in no dimension larger than has to be
allowed for an "A19" "regular lightbulb".

But I agree to use incandescents for closet lights.

- Don Klipstein )

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote in part:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Maybe but my experience with a 13 watt CF with the bulb facing downward
to replace a 60W incandescent was not encouraging. Lasted a few
months and went fizzle.

I think that 13W should at least usually work OK in such fixtures, even
though subjected to non-optimum highish temperatures.
More likely I expect 13 watt compact fluorescents to usually work at
least reasonably OK in downward-facing fixtures.
Also - brand *may* make a difference. There are the "Big 3" brands -
GE, Philips and Sylvania (in the USA) - and I have noticed some general
trend of better quality with those brands.

Check for any warranties, even if limited. If the warranty requires
mailing back dud lightbulbs and remedy is limited to replacement with more
of the same, I advise to take them up on that!
If a major manufacturer thinks they can fatten their bottom line by
cheapening a lightbulb design by a few cents, I suspect they will back off
if merely hundreds of customers send back dud lightbulbs! The manufacturer
would not want stockholders to get wind of mailroom overtime or need to
hire another mailroom worker along with threat of loss of a percent or two
of market share resulting from a design using a capacitor cheaper by .6
cent or a transistor cheaper by 1.2 cents!

No way would I attempt to replace a 60W incandescent with a 30W or even
a 22W CF.

30W - I would guess probably a problem.

26W - I would guess good chance of conking out noticeably early in a
small enclosed fixture rated 60W max incandescent or a downward facing one
rated 60W max incandescent.

23W - probably not compromised too badly for better brands. But I would
say worse for 24W (which in my experience most 23W ones improve upon) and
worse-still 25W. But in my experience 26W is brighter and 25W does not
outshine 23W, so I expect 25W (which I already had bad experiences with
for 2 brands even and saw less of more recently) to have more trouble
than 26W.

22W - I have yet to see one.

18W - next lower size of spirals where I noticed more recently and with
higher efficiency - apparently replacing spirals of 19 watts of about 2-3
years ago and 20W spirals of about 4 years ago. So I expect 18W to be
pretty good, 19W fair and 20W maybe touchy.

Then there are the Philips SLS models - triple-arch rather than spiral.
The 15, 20 and non-dimmable 23-watt ones are even outright rated to be
used in recessed ceiling fixtures, and the 15 and 20 watt ones are even
available with snap-on reflectors of 2 different sizes.
(The 25 watt and dimmable 23 watt Philips SLS are not rated for use in
recessed ceiling fixtures.)

- Don Klipstein )

SeaKan wrote:
I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs. question: my
light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I could get a bulb higher
than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones? it uses less wattage, much
lower than 60.

Funny you should ask today. I just called Feit Electric today with another
question. I suggest you call too, to make sure, but I got the impression that
you can use their 100 watt equivalent bulbs in 60 watt sockets just fine.
I've been using them outdoors (in lantern-type enclosures) for a couple of
years now; the fixtures are rated at 75 watts. Lots of light, no sign of
damage, 23 watts per bulb. They work fine at -1 F. They take one second to
come on (two when it's -1 F), and about two minutes to come to full brightness.

My question was whether they can be used in base-up applications, since it's
the base that gets hottest. They said it's fine anywhere the bulb is not
enclosed, i.e. in a fixture. But that's perfect for our garage, which has
just one porcelain socket mounted to the ceiling and no globes surrounding
it.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

mm wrote:
Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I wouldn't want one to be the
sole source of light in a room, but I'm willing to use it for an
outdoor or close light where no one will be using it for long, or the
basement where there are two fixtures, and one has a regular bulb.

We're quite happy with them as the sole sources of light in our living room,
computer room and bedroom.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

Don Klipstein wrote:
I did a bit of testing with a few different lightbulbs and a non-contact
thermometer and in my limited testing a 42 watt compact fluorescent heats
up a fixture as much as a 60 watt incandescent does, maybe slightly worse.

42-watt equivalent, or 42 actual watts consumed?

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:20 -0500, "SeaKan"
wrote:

I want to get one of those new energy efficient light bulbs.
question: my light only takes 60 watts or less. Does that mean I
could get a bulb higher than 60 watts if it is one of the new ones?
it uses less wattage, much lower than 60.


As it turns out, a watt into a compact fluorescent heats up the
fixture more than a watt going into an incandescent because the
incandescent throws out a lot of infrared and the compact fluorescent
doesn't.

I did a bit of testing with a few different lightbulbs and a
non-contact thermometer and in my limited testing a 42 watt compact
fluorescent heats up a fixture as much as a 60 watt incandescent
does, maybe slightly worse.

So, I believe that compact fluorescents up to 30 watts will not
overheat fixtures rated for 60 watt max incandescent, and 42 watt
ones either won't overheat such a fixture or barely will overheat
such a fixture.

Maybe but my experience with a 13 watt CF with the bulb facing
downward to replace a 60W incandescent was not encouraging. Lasted a
few months and went fizzle. No way would I attempt to replace a 60W
incandescent with a 30W or even a 22W CF.

Outside in an open but protected fixture the same brand and size bulb
has been fine.

Hmm,
I have been uses 13W CFs in outdoor protected fixtures mounted bulb
down for over a decade and have had no more failures than the same lamps
mounted indoors with bulb up.