A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

One possible freak accident causing your house being destroyed is slightly
reduced. What if the main in the street breaks and the gas follows up
your sewer trench into the house. It happened around here. You'd better
buy one of those composting toilets.


---
Lord, protect me from those to whom you speak directly
All salute the new age, and I hope nobody escapes

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low pressure
gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--

No form of energy used in a home is without some element of risk. It's a
case of trading comfort and convenience against the risk of dying, however
slight that risk may be. It is quite possible that there may be more
electrical fires than gas fires. Does anyone have the figures on the number
of deaths in homes caused by the different forms of energy?

Bob

Happened in Chicago a few years ago. Took out whole blocks. Seems that
instead of having individual regulators on each house, Chicago allowed one
regulator per few blocks. THe one regulator went bad and lots of fires
resulted as the extra pressure caused the furnaces to shoot out flames.

IT happens. I can point out a few stories about electric heaters burning
down houses too.


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low pressure
gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

Every year at least one house blows up from gas. OTOH, 50,000 people are
still killed in automobile accidents every ear and we still drive every day.
Oil tanks, leak, people get electrocuted. None of these seem to make much
news though.

If gas was available for my house, I'd hook up tomorrow. Thanks, I'll take
your share.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
Happened in Chicago a few years ago. Took out whole blocks. Seems that
instead of having individual regulators on each house, Chicago allowed one
regulator per few blocks. THe one regulator went bad and lots of fires
resulted as the extra pressure caused the furnaces to shoot out flames.

IT happens. I can point out a few stories about electric heaters burning
down houses too.


Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood. They had to activate their doomsday
plan, call out all 3 shifts of fire and police, etc. 2 or 3 houses flat
destroyed, several dozen damaged, and they had to shut off gas to most of
the north side while they sorted it all out. Some blocks were without gas
for a week or more, while they checked every street valve and every meter
for damage, and did a free service call and relight for every house. Never
saw any court suits about it, so I think the Gas Co. settled the claims as
quick as they came in. Good thing it was daytime, and nobody died, and only
minor injuries.

aem sends...

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

The house would have to be permeated with gas for an explosion like this.
The owners had to be out to lunch or out of town.

I used to work for a gas utility. A standing "sick" joke with employees was
that the gas company did not blow up paying customers, because most
everytime the gas leaked (some old mains were over 100 years old and made of
cast iron) it would follow up a sewer line into a house or building of a
non-customer. People who were afraid of having gas installed in their house
were not saved by being a non-customer, the gas explosion could still get
you. By the way, officially, the word explosion was never used, it was an
"incident"!

"P. Thompson" wrote in message
ocaldomain...
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

One possible freak accident causing your house being destroyed is slightly
reduced. What if the main in the street breaks and the gas follows up
your sewer trench into the house. It happened around here. You'd better
buy one of those composting toilets.


---
Lord, protect me from those to whom you speak directly
All salute the new age, and I hope nobody escapes

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low pressure
gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

When I lived just a few towns away from the town where this happened, the
gas company had a slogan "Go modern, go gas".
We already had gas heat, hot water, cooking etc. The house two doors away
blew up.
The slogan became " Go gas, go modern, go boom".

Charlie

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home
occurred yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was
destroyed by a gas explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted
that some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff

Really a freak accident. I would guess your chance of being injured by
a gas explosion (assuming you are following code) is about equal to the
added chance of fire or electrocution due to a malfunction of your heat
pump. Both are very remote. You have a far better chance of winning the
lottery.

If you like explosions, a little research will find a number of
situations where gasoline has contaminated sewer lines and blown up areas of
towns.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Would you include nuclear energy in the list? Do the "deaths in homes"
have to occur suddenly to qualify?
Timo

Robertm wrote:

No form of energy used in a home is without some element of risk. It's a
case of trading comfort and convenience against the risk of dying, however
slight that risk may be. It is quite possible that there may be more
electrical fires than gas fires. Does anyone have the figures on the number
of deaths in homes caused by the different forms of energy?

Bob

My neighbors lawn mower caught fire, gee maybe I should get a goat
instead.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:40:56 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home
occurred yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was
destroyed by a gas explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted
that some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff

Really a freak accident. I would guess your chance of being injured by
a gas explosion (assuming you are following code) is about equal to the
added chance of fire or electrocution due to a malfunction of your heat
pump. Both are very remote. You have a far better chance of winning the
lottery.

If you like explosions, a little research will find a number of
situations where gasoline has contaminated sewer lines and blown up areas of
towns.

In 1984, I was operating a service station I leased from the oil
company. They owned the building, the tanks and the gas in them. I
paid for gas through the pumps.

At that time (maybe still) the state required pressure testing of the
tanks at regular intervals. This time the tank failed. Before they
could release the pressure, 700 gallons of gas seeped into a 4 foot
storm drain 30 feet away. It dumped into a creek a half mile away
through a residential neighborhood. Major cleanup; major evacuation.

Contaminated soil was hauled away in sealed drums at $455 each.
Excavation equipment without electrical systems was used to dig the
soil out and later at the evaporation site to turn the soil daily.
They were started with APU carts at least 200 feet away. Operators
wore hazmat suits and respirators.

There is now a car wash on that site. Behind it is a 36" ventilation
well with a suction fan on a 25' stack. I'm told the air/fuel mixture
coming out is still combustible twenty-one years later

"ameijers" wrote:

Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood.

Exactly what happened here in MA.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:07:43 GMT, "CKI"
wrote:


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

The house would have to be permeated with gas for an explosion like this.
The owners had to be out to lunch or out of town.

I think one basement room filled with gas would be enough. How long
it takes to fill a room to that degree I don't know, but apparently it
is no more than the time from the "POP" to the explosion.

When the air force bombs a building, they don't have to set of little
bombs throughout the building. A bomb that explodes in one room will
do.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

Robertm wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low pressure
gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--


No form of energy used in a home is without some element of risk. It's a
case of trading comfort and convenience against the risk of dying, however
slight that risk may be. It is quite possible that there may be more
electrical fires than gas fires. Does anyone have the figures on the number
of deaths in homes caused by the different forms of energy?

Bob



I hear what you say, Bob.

But, since it would be pretty inconvenient for us to live without
electricity, I do believe I am lowering our risks by not having an
*additional* flammable/flaming fueled system inside my house.

I watched the electrical work being done when we had the place built,
and I have the education and experience to know how to avoid creating
dangerous electrical conditions when doing repairs or modifications myself.

That's why I wrote what I did in my OP. Nothing is totally risk free,
but I'd just as soon live without gas or oil in my house than with it
there, since I can keep the place comfortable warm for very little more
fuel cost with our new heat pumps, and likely lower overall maintenance
expenses than if I had a "furnace" in our home.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.


Every year at least one house blows up from gas. OTOH, 50,000 people are
still killed in automobile accidents every ear and we still drive every day.
Oil tanks, leak, people get electrocuted. None of these seem to make much
news though.

Agreed. But, when a few pet dogs got electrocuted walking on wet
pavement here in Boston within the last year, due to buried exposed live
conductors, the papers and TV were full of the news about it for days.

And, some pet shops experienced a minor bonaza when they started selling
rubber booties for fidos.

Jeff


If gas was available for my house, I'd hook up tomorrow. Thanks, I'll take
your share.

Your welcome to it. As I just said in another post here, I think I'm
reducing (But certainly not eliminating) our risks by sticking with just
one fuel (electricity) in our home.


--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"P. Thompson" wrote in message
ocaldomain...
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

One possible freak accident causing your house being destroyed is slightly
reduced. What if the main in the street breaks and the gas follows up
your sewer trench into the house. It happened around here. You'd better
buy one of those composting toilets.



It happened here a few years ago too!
It sticks in my mind because I had just pulled my oil furnace and switched
to natural gas. A gent I worked with at the time thought I was crazy to put
gas in my house. "Your house could blow up!" Then he cited where his
neighbors house had blown up from a NG leak a few months before. Again the
funny side of it all is the house did not have gas supplied to it! The main
in the street leaked and the gas followed the water or sewer main into the
house. I just countered with, "you are damned if you do and damned it you
don't, so you may as well heat with gas!!"

When I think about it, I don't know of any home in the area, that was
supplied with gas, ever blow up, except for the occasional intentional leak!
We had on a few years ago where the guy beat his wife damn near to death
then cracked a gas line in the house and left her for dead. She was able to
get out of the house before it blew. The fire department found her laying in
the back yard while putting out the fire.
Greg

Andy Asberry wrote:

In 1984, I was operating a service station I leased from the oil
company. They owned the building, the tanks and the gas in them. I
paid for gas through the pumps.

At that time (maybe still) the state required pressure testing of the
tanks at regular intervals. This time the tank failed. Before they
could release the pressure, 700 gallons of gas seeped into a 4 foot
storm drain 30 feet away. It dumped into a creek a half mile away
through a residential neighborhood. Major cleanup; major evacuation.

Yikes! I assume the tanks were underground, where did the leak occur? How did
it get to the storm drain, or did not just migrate from the tank directly to the
storm drain well? Was it leaded gas?


Contaminated soil was hauled away in sealed drums at $455 each.
Excavation equipment without electrical systems was used to dig the
soil out and later at the evaporation site to turn the soil daily.
They were started with APU carts at least 200 feet away. Operators
wore hazmat suits and respirators.

There is now a car wash on that site. Behind it is a 36" ventilation
well with a suction fan on a 25' stack. I'm told the air/fuel mixture
coming out is still combustible twenty-one years later

I'll bet it is! There are a few gas stations in my town that have histories of
leaking tanks many years ago, and are still being remediated today. One leaked
while it was a Chevron station, I don't even recall Chevron ever being in this
part of the country (Massachusetts). The environmental engineers were able to
track which plume was which by looking at what additives were in each brand of
gasoline.

CKI wrote:

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

A demonstration of why I'm happy we use heat pumps in our home occurred
yesterday when a house in the next town to ours was destroyed by a gas
explosion.

The news reports today said that the gas company (Keyspan) admitted that
some kind of goof caused high pressure gas to be fed into to low
pressure gas mains, with not unexpected results.

http://tinyurl.com/bdupq

Nuff said,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

The house would have to be permeated with gas for an explosion like this.
The owners had to be out to lunch or out of town.

This is still preliminary, but apparently they heard a bang, smelled gas, and
the son came outside. The explosion occured almost immediately after this, I
think the timeline was very very short. I think the mother was already
outside raking leaves, nobody else was home. They are lucky it happen in the
daytime, there were no serious injuries.

Michael Nickolas wrote:

"ameijers" wrote:

Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood.

Exactly what happened here in MA.

The "high pressure" line (reportedly) was 60 psi, the normal street line (which
the high pressure was accidentally connected to) pressure is only 2 psi. When I
first heard "high pressure" line accidentally hooked up, I thought they were
referring to the Tennessee Gas interstate lines that serve the local utility
companies in Eastern Massachusetts towns. Those lines have 600-1500 psi in
them!!! TN Gas spends a lot of effort maintaining their infrastructure, probably
more than Keyspan (the local gas utility).

Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented too much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this true? Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure is that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on that street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.

"Tom Warner" wrote in message
...

Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented too
much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this true?
Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure is
that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on that
street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.


Many regulators are designed to handle only so much inlet pressure. Over the
rated pressure they "lock out", or just slam shut, stopping the gas flow. It
is possible that many regulators do not do this, or the diaphragm in the
regulator ruptured from the excessive gas pressure, spewing gas out the
vent.
Greg

Greg O wrote:

"Tom Warner" wrote in message
...

Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented too
much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this true?
Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure is
that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on that
street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.


Many regulators are designed to handle only so much inlet pressure. Over the
rated pressure they "lock out", or just slam shut, stopping the gas flow. It
is possible that many regulators do not do this, or the diaphragm in the
regulator ruptured from the excessive gas pressure, spewing gas out the
vent.

Last year, I had Keyspan Energy (the same utility that blew up the Lexington
house) replace our regulator. It was making a funny noise whenever the hot
water heater was running. It took quite a bit of time before I figured out that
this strange noise was ocurring when the hot water heater burner was on, and
then that it was actually coming from outside because it sure didn't sound like
it was. Keyspan took four or five four-hour service appointments (most of which
they never showed up) before they finally got it fixed. Along the way they
replaced the gas meter for some reason, but of course that didn't fix the
problem. The problem was the regulator was sucking air in through the vent, and
the diaphram inside was vibrating as air went past, causing the noise which then
resonated through the gas pipes. I've wondered if this air introduced into the
gas line would cause the appliances to operate incorrectly

There are also excess flow valves, which shut off the gas if too much gas enters
the house at once. The NTSB strongly recommends excess flow valves after a
tragic accident that blew up a brand new house and killed a family during their
first night in their new house. Unfortunately they usually aren't required for
new service and cost a mint to install for existing service, and Keyspan said
the customer would have to pay for one if one was available at all. I think
the new propane grill tanks have excess flow valves built in.

Tom Warner wrote:
Michael Nickolas wrote:


"ameijers" wrote:


Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood.

Exactly what happened here in MA.


The "high pressure" line (reportedly) was 60 psi, the normal street line (which
the high pressure was accidentally connected to) pressure is only 2 psi. When I
first heard "high pressure" line accidentally hooked up, I thought they were
referring to the Tennessee Gas interstate lines that serve the local utility
companies in Eastern Massachusetts towns. Those lines have 600-1500 psi in
them!!! TN Gas spends a lot of effort maintaining their infrastructure, probably
more than Keyspan (the local gas utility).

In my area most of the street lines are nominal 60 PSI. They install a
regulator where the service line rises into the meter saddle.



Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented too much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this true? Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure is that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on that street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:19:05 -0500, Tom Warner
wrote:

Last year, I had Keyspan Energy (the same utility that blew up the Lexington
house) replace our regulator.

We don't have Keyspan here, but we do have C-Span. It forces
Congressional sessions and committee hearings into our houses and must
be responsible for almost as many adverse medical incidents as
Keyspan.

I think hot air is the pressure source, but I'm not sure what the
maximum expected pressure is.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:22:41 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

My neighbors lawn mower caught fire, gee maybe I should get a goat
instead.

Don't get an electric goat.

Unless you get a GFI.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

Tom Warner wrote:

Michael Nickolas wrote:


"ameijers" wrote:


Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood.

Exactly what happened here in MA.


The "high pressure" line (reportedly) was 60 psi, the normal street line (which
the high pressure was accidentally connected to) pressure is only 2 psi. When I
first heard "high pressure" line accidentally hooked up, I thought they were
referring to the Tennessee Gas interstate lines that serve the local utility
companies in Eastern Massachusetts towns. Those lines have 600-1500 psi in
them!!! TN Gas spends a lot of effort maintaining their infrastructure, probably
more than Keyspan (the local gas utility).

Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented too much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this true? Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure is that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on that street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.


I once (long ago) worked for a long haul transmission company. We flew
the lines regularly looking for stuff like dead crops that indicated
below-surface leaks. Every few years the pilots would spot a farmer
with a drill trying to install his own "farm tap." 1500 psi lines,
those were, as I recall. Luckily the steel was thick enough that the
farmers didn't succeed, or we'd have fewer farmers.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

CJT wrote:
Tom Warner wrote:

Michael Nickolas wrote:


"ameijers" wrote:


Same thing happened here in Battle Creek, MI, a few years ago. Gas
Co was
working on outside plant, and connected a hi-pressure line to a
low-pressure
branch serving an older neighborhood.


Exactly what happened here in MA.



The "high pressure" line (reportedly) was 60 psi, the normal street
line (which
the high pressure was accidentally connected to) pressure is only 2
psi. When I
first heard "high pressure" line accidentally hooked up, I thought
they were
referring to the Tennessee Gas interstate lines that serve the local
utility
companies in Eastern Massachusetts towns. Those lines have 600-1500
psi in
them!!! TN Gas spends a lot of effort maintaining their
infrastructure, probably
more than Keyspan (the local gas utility).

Several reports have stated that the regulator should have prevented
too much
pressure in the house even after the pressure mismatch. Is this
true? Can the
regulator next to the meter reliably regulate when the supply pressure
is that
high?

Then again I don't think there were any other leaks inside houses on
that street
other than the one house that was destroyed, so perhaps everyone else's
regulators worked ok.


I once (long ago) worked for a long haul transmission company. We flew
the lines regularly looking for stuff like dead crops that indicated
below-surface leaks. Every few years the pilots would spot a farmer
with a drill trying to install his own "farm tap." 1500 psi lines,
those were, as I recall. Luckily the steel was thick enough that the
farmers didn't succeed, or we'd have fewer farmers.

Hi,
Pipe lines carry gas, oil, even coal. you name it.
Tony