I'm a little annoyed. I would appreciate some help deciding what to
do.

I live in Palo Alto, California -- 30 miles south of San Francisco.
The house was built around 1940. A second story was added in 1985. My
(now) wife bought the house in 1990. We got married in 2002 and I
moved in. The house has a foundation (not a slab). Most of the
exterior is stucco.

A few months after I moved in, a pest control guy knocked at the door
saying that he was here to check the termite traps. I asked my wife
about it. She said that in 1999 she found a lot of "wings" in several
places inside the house. Friends told her it was termites and
recommended a pesty control company. It's a company that has offices
throughout at least Northern California. She said they installed
"traps"around the house, which they check each month. I asked her how
much that costs and she said, $45/mo. I asked her if they ever found
any termites and she said no. I told her I thought it was a scam and
we cancelled the contract.

A few weeks ago, we started some remodeling. As part of the work, the
contractors removed the stucco on part of the back and discovered an
active termite colony. It goes at least all the way to the second
floor and it appears to to into the second floor plywood. They will be
removing more of the stucco over the next few days so we'll see how
far it goes.

So, I asked my wofe if she had the original contract from the termite
company. Being the diligent person that she is, she found it. There is
a glitsy, glossy 3-page folder touting the Sentricon System explaining
how they first attact the termites to the bait traps, then when they
find termites, they send them back with a poison to kill the colony.

The enclosed contract shows that she paid $1,850 to have the Sentricon
System installed. It does not say anything about any spraying or other
treatment of the existing colony or structure. It then calls for
monthly inspections at $45/month, although I am sure they never came
out more than every 3 months and spent maybe 15 minutes.

Well, now we do have termites and since at least some parts of the
underlying structure of the house will be exposed, it's a good time to
make sure we get it checked.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I call the same company and find out why they didn;t find
any termites with their little traps?

2. Do I have any recourse to make them treat the current infestation
or pay for it? Would I even trust them to do it right this time? I
read the entire contract. I don't see any kind of a guarantee at all.

3. How can I find a reputable and competent company for a second or
third opinion?

4. What is the recommended treatment? If the infestation is contained
to the area already exposed, can I avoid tenting the entire house? I
tend to think that it is unlikely that we just happened to espose the
only colony. (sigh)

5. Any other comments or suggestions?

Thanks

--
For email, use

Terminix has a garantee. Sounds like you need one this time.

Most likely you have subterranean termites. Look for mud tubes (termite
tunnels) the size of a pencil which should go from the damaged area to the
soil. Any exterminator will be able to pump poison into the underground area
where the termite nest is. They usually treat the perimeter of the
foundation.

Tenting is only required if you have an infestation of dry wood termites (if
you cannot find tunnels). Tenting will not affect subterranean termites.

Perimeter treatment might set you back 1 or 2 thousand bucks. Shop around.

Of course, after you get rid of the termites, you may want to repair the
damaged areas, if they represent a structural problem.

No big deal. This will probably not be your last encounter with termites.
Most California homes have had, or have, or will have termites at various
times.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"LurfysMa" wrote in message
...
I'm a little annoyed. I would appreciate some help deciding what to
do.

I live in Palo Alto, California -- 30 miles south of San Francisco.
The house was built around 1940. A second story was added in 1985. My
(now) wife bought the house in 1990. We got married in 2002 and I
moved in. The house has a foundation (not a slab). Most of the
exterior is stucco.

A few months after I moved in, a pest control guy knocked at the door
saying that he was here to check the termite traps. I asked my wife
about it. She said that in 1999 she found a lot of "wings" in several
places inside the house. Friends told her it was termites and
recommended a pesty control company. It's a company that has offices
throughout at least Northern California. She said they installed
"traps"around the house, which they check each month. I asked her how
much that costs and she said, $45/mo. I asked her if they ever found
any termites and she said no. I told her I thought it was a scam and
we cancelled the contract.

A few weeks ago, we started some remodeling. As part of the work, the
contractors removed the stucco on part of the back and discovered an
active termite colony. It goes at least all the way to the second
floor and it appears to to into the second floor plywood. They will be
removing more of the stucco over the next few days so we'll see how
far it goes.

So, I asked my wofe if she had the original contract from the termite
company. Being the diligent person that she is, she found it. There is
a glitsy, glossy 3-page folder touting the Sentricon System explaining
how they first attact the termites to the bait traps, then when they
find termites, they send them back with a poison to kill the colony.

The enclosed contract shows that she paid $1,850 to have the Sentricon
System installed. It does not say anything about any spraying or other
treatment of the existing colony or structure. It then calls for
monthly inspections at $45/month, although I am sure they never came
out more than every 3 months and spent maybe 15 minutes.

Well, now we do have termites and since at least some parts of the
underlying structure of the house will be exposed, it's a good time to
make sure we get it checked.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I call the same company and find out why they didn;t find
any termites with their little traps?

2. Do I have any recourse to make them treat the current infestation
or pay for it? Would I even trust them to do it right this time? I
read the entire contract. I don't see any kind of a guarantee at all.

3. How can I find a reputable and competent company for a second or
third opinion?

4. What is the recommended treatment? If the infestation is contained
to the area already exposed, can I avoid tenting the entire house? I
tend to think that it is unlikely that we just happened to espose the
only colony. (sigh)

5. Any other comments or suggestions?

Thanks

--
For email, use

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:11:17 GMT, "Walter R."
wrote:

Most likely you have subterranean termites. Look for mud tubes (termite
tunnels) the size of a pencil which should go from the damaged area to the
soil. Any exterminator will be able to pump poison into the underground area
where the termite nest is. They usually treat the perimeter of the
foundation.

The previous inspection reported subterranean termites. The perimeter
treatment works because they cannot survive just in the wood? They
need to return to the ground and if they cannot, because of the
treatment, they die?

Tenting is only required if you have an infestation of dry wood termites (if
you cannot find tunnels). Tenting will not affect subterranean termites.

So the inspector should be able to find mud tunnels. Are these hard to
find or easily missed?

Perimeter treatment might set you back 1 or 2 thousand bucks. Shop around.

How can I tell if I am getting an appropriate treatment?

Of course, after you get rid of the termites, you may want to repair the
damaged areas, if they represent a structural problem.

No big deal. This will probably not be your last encounter with termites.
Most California homes have had, or have, or will have termites at various
times.

I've lived in California (same general area) since 1970. First
encounter that I know of. Maybe just lucky or ignorant.

--
For email, use

LurfysMa wrote:

I'm a little annoyed. I would appreciate some help deciding what to
do.

I live in Palo Alto, California -- 30 miles south of San Francisco.
The house was built around 1940. A second story was added in 1985. My
(now) wife bought the house in 1990. We got married in 2002 and I
moved in. The house has a foundation (not a slab). Most of the
exterior is stucco.

A few months after I moved in, a pest control guy knocked at the door
saying that he was here to check the termite traps. I asked my wife
about it. She said that in 1999 she found a lot of "wings" in several
places inside the house. Friends told her it was termites and
recommended a pesty control company. It's a company that has offices
throughout at least Northern California. She said they installed
"traps"around the house, which they check each month. I asked her how
much that costs and she said, $45/mo. I asked her if they ever found
any termites and she said no. I told her I thought it was a scam and
we cancelled the contract.

A few weeks ago, we started some remodeling. As part of the work, the
contractors removed the stucco on part of the back and discovered an
active termite colony. It goes at least all the way to the second
floor and it appears to to into the second floor plywood. They will be
removing more of the stucco over the next few days so we'll see how
far it goes.

So, I asked my wofe if she had the original contract from the termite
company. Being the diligent person that she is, she found it. There is
a glitsy, glossy 3-page folder touting the Sentricon System explaining
how they first attact the termites to the bait traps, then when they
find termites, they send them back with a poison to kill the colony.

The enclosed contract shows that she paid $1,850 to have the Sentricon
System installed. It does not say anything about any spraying or other
treatment of the existing colony or structure. It then calls for
monthly inspections at $45/month, although I am sure they never came
out more than every 3 months and spent maybe 15 minutes.

That is probably about standard. Does the contract address infestation
after service is discontinued?

Well, now we do have termites and since at least some parts of the
underlying structure of the house will be exposed, it's a good time to
make sure we get it checked.

Annual inspections by licensed, competent, reputable contractor are a must.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I call the same company and find out why they didn;t find
any termites with their little traps?

Traps are installed, filled with wood. Wait until termites take the
bait, then place termiticide in the traps with wood.

2. Do I have any recourse to make them treat the current infestation
or pay for it? Would I even trust them to do it right this time? I
read the entire contract. I don't see any kind of a guarantee at all.

Traps are for subterranean termites, one of two major types. The other
is drywood. Then there are damp wood and different flavors in each
category. Sub's require different treatment than dry. Our county
extension service has entymologists to id insects. Give yours a try.

Here is a link:
http://www.sccgov.org/channel/0,4770...D61054,00.html

3. How can I find a reputable and competent company for a second or
third opinion?

4. What is the recommended treatment? If the infestation is contained
to the area already exposed, can I avoid tenting the entire house? I
tend to think that it is unlikely that we just happened to espose the
only colony. (sigh)

That would be the "good news" part. If your stucco goes below grade,
the most favorable set up for termites, you likely have them in other
locations. Termites do not like daylight, so they go from ground into
interior wood, or they build mud tubes to get from ground to wood. All
types, along with ants, swarm during mating season - pairs fall in love,
fly away, land in the house, shed their wings and set up housekeeping.
Shed wings are one of the major signs of infestation. Dry wood termites
can enter through small gaps around doors/windows, pipes, etc. Since
they don't like daylight, they tunnel the interior parts where there is
cellulose (wood, paper covering on wallboard, etc). Often, where they
have eaten away wood or paper, there will be a blistered appearance on
the surface. I found a board, exterior wood trim on our condo, 1x12,
with a section having nothing left but the paint coating. Big clue for
prevention: termites do not eat through paint.

5. Any other comments or suggestions?

Thanks

Even with concrete block/stucco, subs can come up around plumbing
entries or through small cracks. I haven't read up lately on the
effectiveness of bait systems, as it was too new to tell when I was
looking at Florida info. Your county web has links to info about
treatments. Good luck.

In article ,
lid says...
The enclosed contract shows that she paid $1,850 to have the Sentricon
System installed. It does not say anything about any spraying or other
treatment of the existing colony or structure. It then calls for
monthly inspections at $45/month, although I am sure they never came
out more than every 3 months and spent maybe 15 minutes.

Well, now we do have termites and since at least some parts of the
underlying structure of the house will be exposed, it's a good time to
make sure we get it checked.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I call the same company and find out why they didn;t find
any termites with their little traps?

2. Do I have any recourse to make them treat the current infestation
or pay for it? Would I even trust them to do it right this time? I
read the entire contract. I don't see any kind of a guarantee at all.

You have seen the down fall of baiting...toooo much money for the lack
of results. The excuse of the company is that the termites must of shown
up after you had cancelled the contract 2-3 years ago, when I would be
more surprised if they hadn't been there all along ,even while the home
was being inspected. You can try to get them to move on it, but chances
are they won't. I would suggest that you have several reputable
companies inspect it for more activity.
3. How can I find a reputable and competent company for a second or
third opinion?

Neighbors...friends..family. Find out who they are satisfied with.

4. What is the recommended treatment? If the infestation is contained
to the area already exposed, can I avoid tenting the entire house? I
tend to think that it is unlikely that we just happened to espose the
only colony. (sigh)

Assuming you are dealing with sub terranean termites, I would suggest
a treatment with a product called Termidor..even if you had been paying
for the company doing sentricon up to this time you would be better
protected by dropping them and having the home treated with termidor..at
the savings of $450+ a year your wife was paying would pay for the
termidor treatment within 4 years. Tenting the home would only be
necessary for dry wood termites, which actually live in the structure
rather than just coming out of the ground to feed.

5. Any other comments or suggestions?

With stucco siding, it probably goes below the soil line which can be a
problem. Changing the grade around the foundation may be in order, and
have seen some actually have the lower portion of the stucco removed so
the foundation could be seen.

--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

LurfysMa wrote:
I'm a little annoyed. I would appreciate some help deciding what to
do.

I live in Palo Alto, California -- 30 miles south of San Francisco.
The house was built around 1940. A second story was added in 1985. My
(now) wife bought the house in 1990. We got married in 2002 and I
moved in. The house has a foundation (not a slab). Most of the
exterior is stucco.

A few months after I moved in, a pest control guy knocked at the door
saying that he was here to check the termite traps. I asked my wife
about it. She said that in 1999 she found a lot of "wings" in several
places inside the house. Friends told her it was termites and
recommended a pesty control company. It's a company that has offices
throughout at least Northern California. She said they installed
"traps"around the house, which they check each month. I asked her how
much that costs and she said, $45/mo. I asked her if they ever found
any termites and she said no. I told her I thought it was a scam and
we cancelled the contract.

Heh! Your "scammed" wife dealt with a problem in 1999, after which there was
no further evidence of infestation.

You took over from the little woman three years later and cancelled the
coverage (plus the warranty). Three years later, you discover a massive,
two-story termite attack.

Boy, I'd hate to be you.

HeyBub wrote:
LurfysMa wrote:
I'm a little annoyed. I would appreciate some help deciding what to
do.

I live in Palo Alto, California -- 30 miles south of San Francisco.
The house was built around 1940. A second story was added in 1985. My
(now) wife bought the house in 1990. We got married in 2002 and I
moved in. The house has a foundation (not a slab). Most of the
exterior is stucco.

Be very careful here, if she cancelled the contract then the termite
company can reserve the right to dishonor their end of this deal. Have
them come back out and do a "field" diagnosis on the wings that were
seen. Many a times when a homeowner sees these wings they assume one
subterranean when in fact they may drywood. Drywood Termites are the
only species I know of that tenting would be required.

Also, give the company the benefit of the doubt. I know of several
operators that get upset down here because the homeowner cries "foul",
and they want to immediately seek aggressive action on this. Get with
the owner and explain what you have seen. Remain calm, if the company
is reputable (you said there were several in N CA) then they're not
going to risk the reputation on this.
I'm willing to bet that if you call the manager/owner out there, they'd
be willing to properly diagnose, offer any help thay can, and keep you
happy. But I will give you a "heads up". If you did cancel the
contract the company CAN refuse the right to honor it. But try to talk
with them and see what happens.

Good Luck

A few months after I moved in, a pest control guy knocked at the door
saying that he was here to check the termite traps. I asked my wife
about it. She said that in 1999 she found a lot of "wings" in several
places inside the house. Friends told her it was termites and
recommended a pesty control company. It's a company that has offices
throughout at least Northern California. She said they installed
"traps"around the house, which they check each month. I asked her how
much that costs and she said, $45/mo. I asked her if they ever found
any termites and she said no. I told her I thought it was a scam and
we cancelled the contract.

Heh! Your "scammed" wife dealt with a problem in 1999, after which there was
no further evidence of infestation.

You took over from the little woman three years later and cancelled the
coverage (plus the warranty). Three years later, you discover a massive,
two-story termite attack.

Boy, I'd hate to be you.

^Be very careful here, if she cancelled the contract then the termite
company can reserve the right to dishonor their end of this deal. Have
them come back out and do a "field" diagnosis on the wings that were
seen. Many a times when a homeowner sees these wings they assume one
subterranean when in fact they may drywood. Drywood Termites are the
only species I know of that tenting would be required.^

Very sound words .

I see possibilities in the fact that the " wife " may have cancelled the
contact.
Was there an actual cancel ?
Did the PCO somehow lose the routing
info ?
I do know that in some counties in Ca . that termite inspection and
treatments are registered governmentally .

All in all , always try to open a friendly communication (harassing) of the
former PCO in question . Opportunity may arise that the PCO will grant a
major discount in present infestation and be more focused on your
circumstance . I know I would , because , especially with the Sentricon
System , re-infestations are extremely rare. (If done correctly).

In article ,
says...

especially with the Sentricon system, re-infestations are extremely rare. (If done correctly).


Rare with Sentricon???????? I have yet to see a house with Sentricon go
5 years(being kind here) without termites showing back up on the
structure if not ever being eliminated to begin with. Four homes this
year I inspected with current Sentricon coverage...all 4 had
termites..several others had been canceled within the year that had
activity and I doubt if all the termites only showed up after the
contract was cancelled.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

I have yet to see a house with Sentricon go
5 years(being kind here).

Notice I said , if the Sentricon system was done correctly .

This does not mean whip monitoring stations around the perimeter and check
them out every 3 months . Very critical to capture, bait , and keep the
termites well fed . Direct baiting of the interior and heavy monitoring also
helpful .

Traditional liquid termiticides do not abosorb well , if at all , when
stucco or styrofoam insulation board is involved in foundation at or below
grade of the structure .

In article ,
says...
Notice I said , if the Sentricon system was done correctly .

so if the company that originally had the rights to Sentricon when it
came out can't do it properly..or the half a dozen or so companies that
were able to apply a few years later can't get it right, one would begin
to think hmmmmm

This does not mean whip monitoring stations around the perimeter and check
them out every 3 months . Very critical to capture, bait , and keep the
termites well fed . Direct baiting of the interior and heavy monitoring also
helpful .

$2400 initial service between $350-$450 a year to maintain..an
expecation of 18-24 months for elimination..even with constan
monitoring/baiting.

Traditional liquid termiticides do not abosorb well , if at all , when
stucco or styrofoam insulation board is involved in foundation at or below
grade of the structure .

Not sure why this would be an issue...the treatment should be below
the bottom of the stucco..along with suggesting the proper grade
corrections...even the extreme of "trimming" the bottom of the stucco
may be in line.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

All bait systems will kill termites IF, and only if, they are serviced
properly. There is where the problem lies - poor service.

Our customers have the Advance Termite Bait System installed, and we
have eliminated termites from most of those homes. I say most because
the most recent installations are still feeding.

I inspect after we have signs of elimination, to see if we can find
termite activity. Even had one customer that replaced all of their
siding - NO TERMITES.

Termidor is a good option for control. But you need to get the stucco
cut off above grade for it to be fully successful.

Budget Bug Man wrote:
All bait systems will kill termites IF, and only if, they are serviced
properly. There is where the problem lies - poor service.

Our customers have the Advance Termite Bait System installed, and we
have eliminated termites from most of those homes. I say most because
the most recent installations are still feeding.

I inspect after we have signs of elimination, to see if we can find
termite activity. Even had one customer that replaced all of their
siding - NO TERMITES.

Termidor is a good option for control. But you need to get the stucco
cut off above grade for it to be fully successful.


The right chemical is not the only important factor. The home owner
needs a contractor with experience, reliable references, and a good
contract.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:01:05 -0500, Lar
wrote:

In article ,
says...
The enclosed contract shows that she paid $1,850 to have the Sentricon
System installed. It does not say anything about any spraying or other
treatment of the existing colony or structure. It then calls for
monthly inspections at $45/month, although I am sure they never came
out more than every 3 months and spent maybe 15 minutes.

Well, now we do have termites and since at least some parts of the
underlying structure of the house will be exposed, it's a good time to
make sure we get it checked.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I call the same company and find out why they didn;t find
any termites with their little traps?

2. Do I have any recourse to make them treat the current infestation
or pay for it? Would I even trust them to do it right this time? I
read the entire contract. I don't see any kind of a guarantee at all.

You have seen the down fall of baiting...toooo much money for the lack
of results. The excuse of the company is that the termites must of shown
up after you had cancelled the contract 2-3 years ago, when I would be
more surprised if they hadn't been there all along ,even while the home
was being inspected. You can try to get them to move on it, but chances
are they won't. I would suggest that you have several reputable
companies inspect it for more activity.
3. How can I find a reputable and competent company for a second or
third opinion?

Neighbors...friends..family. Find out who they are satisfied with.

4. What is the recommended treatment? If the infestation is contained
to the area already exposed, can I avoid tenting the entire house? I
tend to think that it is unlikely that we just happened to espose the
only colony. (sigh)

Assuming you are dealing with sub terranean termites, I would suggest
a treatment with a product called Termidor..even if you had been paying
for the company doing sentricon up to this time you would be better
protected by dropping them and having the home treated with termidor..at
the savings of $450+ a year your wife was paying would pay for the
termidor treatment within 4 years. Tenting the home would only be
necessary for dry wood termites, which actually live in the structure
rather than just coming out of the ground to feed.

A guy from Terminix looked at the active colony exposed by the
remodeling and said that the pellets were from drywood termites -- not
subterranean.

Does that sound right?

He's coming out tomorrow for a more thorough inspection.

--
For email, use