We just had a french drain system put in the house about 3 months ago.
We did this because water came up from the water table and through the
basement floor and flooded about 1/3 of the basement about 2 inches
thick...anyways, we only see water typucally during the srping thaw,
but as I write this MA is going through a heavy rain cycle, supposed to
last a couple days....anyways, the french drain is working great (here
is a video of my setup working, http://www.nickduda.com/fdrain.wmv ).
The pit fills up in about 30-40 seconds, and the pump send the water
out in about 10 seconds...I got a powerful pump fromt he install
company. I decided to not go with a battery backup solution at the time
of install, it was like 500 bucks more.

Since the french drain was put in, I've fully finsihed the basement off
with a new set of stairs and carpet. The more i sit here tonight i
worry what i would do if i lost power... i mean the pump has been
working for last 5 hours....on for 10 seconds, off for 40
seconds....repeats cycle. What should I do? Generator? Battery back? If
so is this somethign i can do or should I pay someone to do it. Because
my system runs so nice now, and we dont have any water issues unless a
HEAVY HEAVY rain or the spring thaw i'm not to worries about my pump
failing (i continue to test it even when its not in use)....but i worry
about a power failure, granted we barely get them.

Thoughts?

wrote:
We just had a french drain system put in the house about 3 months ago.
We did this because water came up from the water table and through the
basement floor and flooded about 1/3 of the basement about 2 inches
thick...anyways, we only see water typucally during the srping thaw,
but as I write this MA is going through a heavy rain cycle, supposed
to last a couple days....anyways, the french drain is working great
(here is a video of my setup working,
http://www.nickduda.com/fdrain.wmv ). The pit fills up in about 30-40
seconds, and the pump send the water out in about 10 seconds...I got
a powerful pump fromt he install company. I decided to not go with a
battery backup solution at the time of install, it was like 500 bucks
more.

Since the french drain was put in, I've fully finsihed the basement
off with a new set of stairs and carpet. The more i sit here tonight i
worry what i would do if i lost power... i mean the pump has been
working for last 5 hours....on for 10 seconds, off for 40
seconds....repeats cycle. What should I do? Generator? Battery back?
If so is this somethign i can do or should I pay someone to do it.
Because my system runs so nice now, and we dont have any water issues
unless a HEAVY HEAVY rain or the spring thaw i'm not to worries about
my pump failing (i continue to test it even when its not in
use)....but i worry about a power failure, granted we barely get them.

Thoughts?

Consider these ideas.

Battery back up only works as long as the battery will power it. Pumps
draw a lot of power if they pump much water. Generally batteries will fail
during any extended outage.

Generators will work, as long as you are around to make sure they stay
running as needed. Be careful not to run it inside. People who have done
so, don't always live to tell about it.

Water powered pumps are available where there is city water. Most don't
pump a great deal of water, but will work as long as you have water
pressure. Some can be set to turn on by themselves as needed.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

yea, ive seen all these talked about on google groups....but not sure
which would be best for me....i read about someone thats pump was going
for 6 hours without even stopping.... i mean thats nuts...and i only
have to worry about this during a storm really since thats the only
time water tahble rises for me....what im getting at is that maybe 4-6
times a year the water table rises to the point where the basement
would flood , but with the french drain it appears to have fixed that,
as today is showing. Would a battery backup be the best bet?....or
better yet, which of those 3 options is the cheapest, without loosing
any reliablity. I just want to keep my finsihed basemnet finsihed...i
just spent about 7k in doing so.

basementbuddy.com Its a water powered backup pump. price is not
cheap


wrote in message
oups.com...
yea, ive seen all these talked about on google groups....but not sure
which would be best for me....i read about someone thats pump was going
for 6 hours without even stopping.... i mean thats nuts...and i only
have to worry about this during a storm really since thats the only
time water tahble rises for me....what im getting at is that maybe 4-6
times a year the water table rises to the point where the basement
would flood , but with the french drain it appears to have fixed that,
as today is showing. Would a battery backup be the best bet?....or
better yet, which of those 3 options is the cheapest, without loosing
any reliablity. I just want to keep my finsihed basemnet finsihed...i
just spent about 7k in doing so.

" Would a battery backup be the best bet?....or
better yet, which of those 3 options is the cheapest, without loosing
any reliablity. I just want to keep my finsihed basemnet finsihed...i
just spent about 7k in doing so. "


LOL That reminds me of a sign a guy had at work on his office door a
long time ago:

Good
Fast
Cheap

Pick any two.

As Joseph pointed out, a battery backup only lasts as long as the
battery will last. You just told us that your pump is currently
running 10 mins out of every 50 mins right now, during a heavy rain
storm. That's 20% of the time, a pretty hefty duty cycle, a lot more
than a typical sump pump would run. And you said the most water occurs
in the spring. You can go get specs on the battery backup units and
figure out how long the protection will last, depending on the battery
size. My guess is, you'd be looking at several hours.

Is that enough? Well, that's up to you and how much risk you want to
take, how likely it is the power will go off and how long it will take
for it to come back on. I'd take a hard look at the water powered
units that Joseph also recommended. If you can get one that can turn
on by itself, that would provide an unlimited solution, assuming of
course that you have municipal water. The only concern I can think of
is how reliable are they? In particular, you don't want it to come on
accidentally and run constantly while you're away for a week. That
could run up a big water bill.

A generator is certainly an option. For minimal cost you could get a
manual start one and just plug the pump into it if needed. That
assumes that someone is there to do it. Or you could get a natural gas
powered unit with an automatic transfer switch that comes on
automatically, capable of powering a good portion of the rest of the
house too, but that is going to cost thousands of dollars.

Finally, I'll tell you this, which you may not want to hear. And that
is that just about all basements that I've seen with a pump that runs
20% of the time during a heavy rain, wind up having some kind of
moisture and/or water problem sooner or later anyway. IMO, finishing
these basements is just asking for more trouble.

If you want the ultimate protection, you go for all three methods at the
same time, as one single solution may not work/may not be set-up/may not
last long enough/may not have the capacity. With three methods, you have
back-ups to the back-up and believe me at those times when problems
happen -- you will need it. I always keep a submergible back-up sump pump on
hand, and a second one in case the first back-up fails, I also have a water
powered back-up pump installed in my sump plus a generator. As I have a lot
of power tools, a finished basement with entertainment equipment and a full
home office in the basement. I cannot afford to have a flood.

wrote in message
oups.com...
" Would a battery backup be the best bet?....or
better yet, which of those 3 options is the cheapest, without loosing
any reliablity. I just want to keep my finsihed basemnet finsihed...i
just spent about 7k in doing so. "


LOL That reminds me of a sign a guy had at work on his office door a
long time ago:

Good
Fast
Cheap

Pick any two.

As Joseph pointed out, a battery backup only lasts as long as the
battery will last. You just told us that your pump is currently
running 10 mins out of every 50 mins right now, during a heavy rain
storm. That's 20% of the time, a pretty hefty duty cycle, a lot more
than a typical sump pump would run. And you said the most water occurs
in the spring. You can go get specs on the battery backup units and
figure out how long the protection will last, depending on the battery
size. My guess is, you'd be looking at several hours.

Is that enough? Well, that's up to you and how much risk you want to
take, how likely it is the power will go off and how long it will take
for it to come back on. I'd take a hard look at the water powered
units that Joseph also recommended. If you can get one that can turn
on by itself, that would provide an unlimited solution, assuming of
course that you have municipal water. The only concern I can think of
is how reliable are they? In particular, you don't want it to come on
accidentally and run constantly while you're away for a week. That
could run up a big water bill.

A generator is certainly an option. For minimal cost you could get a
manual start one and just plug the pump into it if needed. That
assumes that someone is there to do it. Or you could get a natural gas
powered unit with an automatic transfer switch that comes on
automatically, capable of powering a good portion of the rest of the
house too, but that is going to cost thousands of dollars.

Finally, I'll tell you this, which you may not want to hear. And that
is that just about all basements that I've seen with a pump that runs
20% of the time during a heavy rain, wind up having some kind of
moisture and/or water problem sooner or later anyway. IMO, finishing
these basements is just asking for more trouble.

I installed a "basement watchdog" brand after a power-falure scare (water
was right up to the top of the sump when the power came back on). It claims
that it can run continuously for 24 hours. Since my pump would never need
to run continuously (it can clear the sump in about 30 seconds) I should get
several days out of it.

I've never needed it for an emergency yet, but it was very cheap insurance
(about $150, installed myself). Since it's a completely separate pump, it
will also work if my main pump has mechanical failure.

The water-based backup systems weren't a good option as my sump isn't
anywhere near a water line. I also didn't like the idea of wasting all that
good water, plus I've heard horror stories where people actually flooded
their basements with city water when a check valve failed...

-Tim

In my old house I had a battery powered backup on my sump pump. Then we had
a major ice storm and the water came in too fast for the battery powered
pump AND a gasoline powered pump. Got 5' of water.
I installed a second sump, a second sump pump, and put a water powered back
up on it; AND got a generator.

If that doesn't seem paranoid enough, I moved to a house where the sump pump
hadn't cycled once on 12 years.

Now for you...
I recommend a battery powered backup and a generator. I would also have a
replacement sump pump on the shelf just in case. Paranoid? Well we've
already established that; but I have doubts about any backup handling your
water for very long; so you really need to keep your main pump working. The
backup is to handle it until you get the generator working or if no one is
home, or if it breaks and you have to replace it. (I just got my basement
pumped out and my sump pump broke! Fortunately I had a spare.)
I don't like the water powered pumps I have installed; they seem like junk.
Hopefully the expensive ones are better, but I haven't seen those.

Ok so I've taken in all the info ...

Again, I see water into the pit only during a heavy heavy rain cycle,
like last night....it stopped raining about 3 hours ago, but thepit is
still filling and pumping out, the cycle gets shorter each time, so the
water is coming to a halt under the foundation. The only other time i
see water is during the spring thaw, when all the snow melts
....typically this is over a couple days. I'd say my pump would be
working for about 5-6 days roughly a year....I dont have a huge water
problem, just a minor one that caused the previous owner to not spend
the $ for a french drain.

I think I will go with a battery backup to control the pump while we
are not home, then purchase another backup pump in the event my primary
dies, along with a generator to keep it going if we had a power
failure.

Also, the place that put my french drain in has a warranty against all
equiptment i bought, not sure what it was, probably like 2 years or
something. I've read that sump pumps have come a long way as far as
reliablity and what not....my concern isnt that I wont have a pump
workign when i need it, but rather no power (then again i think i lost
power at my house maybe 2-3 times in the last 2 year for about 10-20
seconds each time).

Thanks all for your responses...it feels nice to have a new area in my
house now to live in...i'd just like to keep it livable.

Water backup pumps have a float on them just like any other pump does. They
do not run all the time so there is no significant water loss.


"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
. ..
I installed a "basement watchdog" brand after a power-falure scare (water
was right up to the top of the sump when the power came back on). It
claims
that it can run continuously for 24 hours. Since my pump would never
need
to run continuously (it can clear the sump in about 30 seconds) I should
get
several days out of it.

I've never needed it for an emergency yet, but it was very cheap insurance
(about $150, installed myself). Since it's a completely separate pump, it
will also work if my main pump has mechanical failure.

The water-based backup systems weren't a good option as my sump isn't
anywhere near a water line. I also didn't like the idea of wasting all
that
good water, plus I've heard horror stories where people actually flooded
their basements with city water when a check valve failed...

-Tim

Tim Fischer wrote:
I installed a "basement watchdog" brand after a power-falure scare
(water was right up to the top of the sump when the power came back
on). It claims that it can run continuously for 24 hours. Since my
pump would never need to run continuously (it can clear the sump in
about 30 seconds) I should get several days out of it.

I've never needed it for an emergency yet, but it was very cheap
insurance (about $150, installed myself). Since it's a completely
separate pump, it will also work if my main pump has mechanical
failure.

You may want to consider that most, if not all, battery powered pumps
are lower volume than the standard pumps most people have. That means it
will need to run longer to do the same job. Of course lower power means the
battery will last longer, but the ultimate result is that it likely will
handle you usual problems and will offer more protection than not having it.
It also can be useful when you still have power but the regular pump fails.

I did have my original pump fail (also sensors and switches can fail)
and I was lucky enough to happen to look in the sump and notice the water
level was up. I now have a new much quieter and higher capacity pump than
the original contractor special.


The water-based backup systems weren't a good option as my sump isn't
anywhere near a water line. I also didn't like the idea of wasting
all that good water, plus I've heard horror stories where people
actually flooded their basements with city water when a check valve
failed...
-Tim

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

consider a large UPS to plug in your main pump

I have a car battery and a large inverter mounted in a box, handy for
power failures even when its not raining

also have a small generator (NEVER RUN A GENERATOR INDOORS)

yes, I have to be here to connect the pump to the inverter and set up
the generator.

Mark

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
You may want to consider that most, if not all, battery powered pumps
are lower volume than the standard pumps most people have. That means it
will need to run longer to do the same job.

My backup pump is about 1/2 has efficient (water removal wise) as my main
pump. Even in the worst conditions (since I've been here 3 years ago) my
main pump has never run more than about 15 seconds every 10 minutes or so.
So conditions would have to get MUCH worse for me to worry about backup
capacity.

-Tim

"Scott" wrote in message
news:xQ92f.228828$084.84811@attbi_s22...
Water backup pumps have a float on them just like any other pump does.
They
do not run all the time so there is no significant water loss.

From the research I did, the pumps are a lot less efficient (that is, they
don't remove nearly as much groundwater) as the battery-backed up pumps.
That means it runs more often, and while it's running, it's like having the
hose spiggot left on (that is, wasted water).

But as I noted, my real issue was I don't have a water line anywhere near
the sump. It's on the other end of our finished lower level from anything
that uses water.

-Tim

"Mark" wrote in message
oups.com...
consider a large UPS to plug in your main pump

Standard sump pumps use an awfully lot of juice (10A is common). It would
be much cheaper to put in a separate battery-backed up pump than buying a
UPS that could handle this kind of current. And that gives you the added
peace-of-mind of having a second pump if something happens to the main
one...

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, I installed a Basement Watchdog for
well under $200 (may have even been $150). Works great. Occasionally I
test it by unplugging the main pump and sticking around until it runs (it
alerts you with an audible beep when it does -- and you have to reset it
before it quits beeping).

The only thing I did that you might want to do differently is that I output
the backup pump to the same pipe as the main pump (each pump has its own
check valve). This was mainly due to plumbing considerations: The pipe
goes through a crawlspace, through the garage, then runs underground for
about 150' into our pond. But if possible, it would be best to have two
completely independant pumps with their own waste lines. I'm safe as far as
pump failure, but if the line clogs or a check valve blows, I still have
issues...

-Tim

"Standard sump pumps use an awfully lot of juice (10A is common). It
would
be much cheaper to put in a separate battery-backed up pump than buying
a
UPS that could handle this kind of current. And that gives you the
added
peace-of-mind of having a second pump if something happens to the main
one...

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, I installed a Basement Watchdog
for
well under $200 (may have even been $150). Works great. Occasionally
I
test it by unplugging the main pump and sticking around until it runs
(it
alerts you with an audible beep when it does -- and you have to reset
it
before it quits beeping).


The only thing I did that you might want to do differently is that I
output
the backup pump to the same pipe as the main pump (each pump has its
own
check valve). This was mainly due to plumbing considerations: The
pipe
goes through a crawlspace, through the garage, then runs underground
for
about 150' into our pond. But if possible, it would be best to have
two
completely independant pumps with their own waste lines. I'm safe as
far as
pump failure, but if the line clogs or a check valve blows, I still
have
issues... "

All excellent advice. The discharge pipe is something that is often
overlooked and can be a consideration especially depending on where it
goes. For a basement like being discussed here, I would definitely
have a second pump installed to turn on slightly higher than the main
one. And I think making it one of the water driven ones, with a
seperate discharge, is likely the way to go.

Just thought of one additional question for the OP. Does the current
install have a check valve in the discharge line? If not, water in the
line could be running back into the sump pit and that could be a reason
the pump cycles back on so quickly.