A few years ago while remodeling I installed a CFI (sp?) outlet for the
microwave oven.It seemed like a good idea at the time. However, last night a
whopping
lightning stroke took out all of the power in the area
for a while. When it was back on, the microwave
oven was dead as well as the toaster also plugged
into it.

I checked the outlet and it had apparently tripped. I tried to reset it, but
nothing happened. Can someone tell me how to get thee power back on in that
outlet?

Thanks.

Ron

"Ron Hubbard" wrote in message
...
A few years ago while remodeling I installed a CFI (sp?) outlet for the
microwave oven.It seemed like a good idea at the time. However, last night
a
whopping
lightning stroke took out all of the power in the area
for a while. When it was back on, the microwave
oven was dead as well as the toaster also plugged
into it.

I checked the outlet and it had apparently tripped. I tried to reset it,
but
nothing happened. Can someone tell me how to get thee power back on in
that
outlet?

It's called a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) or sometimes just a
GFI.

They do die occasionally. If the reset button isn't work, try replacing the
outlet ($15 at the BORG).

-Tim

I checked the outlet and it had apparently tripped. I tried to reset it,
but nothing happened. Can someone tell me how to get thee power back on
in that outlet?
If you happen to have another GFI outlet further upstream on the same
circuit, make sure to reset that outlet also. If not, then simply buy
a new outlet.

Assuming the microwave was installed on a dedicated circuit, I'd first check
the circuit breaker that feeds the GFCI, if that doesn't do it, replace the
outlet



"Ron Hubbard" wrote in message
...
A few years ago while remodeling I installed a CFI (sp?) outlet for the
microwave oven.It seemed like a good idea at the time. However, last night
a
whopping
lightning stroke took out all of the power in the area
for a while. When it was back on, the microwave
oven was dead as well as the toaster also plugged
into it.

I checked the outlet and it had apparently tripped. I tried to reset it,
but
nothing happened. Can someone tell me how to get thee power back on in
that
outlet?

Thanks.

Ron

"Ron Hubbard" wrote in message
...
A few years ago while remodeling I installed a CFI (sp?) outlet for the
microwave oven.It seemed like a good idea at the time. However, last night
a
whopping
lightning stroke took out all of the power in the area
for a while. When it was back on, the microwave
oven was dead as well as the toaster also plugged
into it.

I checked the outlet and it had apparently tripped. I tried to reset it,
but
nothing happened. Can someone tell me how to get thee power back on in
that
outlet?

Thanks.

Ron



GFCI's offer no benefit as a power conditioner/lightning arrestor, they are
just fancy circuit breakers filled with electronics that usually fry
themselves with any voltage surges.

While you can change it for another gfi outlet, I would just pop in a
regular one.

(and might even be tempted to run a second line and split the outlet)

As a microwave AND a toaster on the same outlet is not very likely going to
allow you to use both at once anyway.

BTW, while this may seem obvious, you did test the microwave and toaster in
a different outlet didn't you ?

AMUN

"Amun" wrote in message
.. .
GFCI's offer no benefit as a power conditioner/lightning arrestor, they
are
just fancy circuit breakers filled with electronics

GFCI's are NOT related to circuit breakers, other than both devices cut of
the power in different situations. This is a myth that people don't seem to
understand is not true.

- Circuit Breakers cut off power in the case of an overload condition (too
much current through the breaker.
- GFCI's cut off power in the case of a ground fault -- that is, the power
going out the hot slot does not balance with the power coming into the
neutral side -- which potentially means current is flowing through someone's
body to ground, e.g. someone is being electricuted.

GFCI's will NOT protect against overcurrent. That's why you need both
devices. GFCI breakers have both functions combined into one package.

-Tim

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
"Amun" wrote in message
.. .
GFCI's offer no benefit as a power conditioner/lightning arrestor, they
are
just fancy circuit breakers filled with electronics

GFCI's are NOT related to circuit breakers, other than both devices cut of
the power in different situations. This is a myth that people don't seem
to
understand is not true.

- Circuit Breakers cut off power in the case of an overload condition (too
much current through the breaker.
- GFCI's cut off power in the case of a ground fault -- that is, the power
going out the hot slot does not balance with the power coming into the
neutral side -- which potentially means current is flowing through
someone's
body to ground, e.g. someone is being electricuted.

GFCI's will NOT protect against overcurrent. That's why you need both
devices. GFCI breakers have both functions combined into one package.

-Tim



While you are somewhat correct, pulling a few words out of context means
little.
As many GFI outlets also have overcurrent protection built in.

I do agree that a GFI should also be used in conjunction with a proper
circuit breaker.
But I never stated it shouldn't be.

The OP was concerned about damage after a lighting strike.

The need for a GFI is probably unwarranted for a microwave, and can be
replaced with a regular outlet.
And if the GFI is tripping it could also be caused by damage to the
microwave plugged into it.

If you read my complete post, you might have seen that.

AMUN

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming the microwave was installed on a dedicated circuit, I'd first check
the circuit breaker that feeds the GFCI, if that doesn't do it, replace the
outlet

A bummer replacing that, but thanks folks for the help.

Ron

While GFCI protection is not required for a "microwave" it is required for
all kitchen counter outlets regardless of what may be plugged into them



"Amun" wrote in message
. ..

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
"Amun" wrote in message
.. .
GFCI's offer no benefit as a power conditioner/lightning arrestor, they
are
just fancy circuit breakers filled with electronics

GFCI's are NOT related to circuit breakers, other than both devices cut
of
the power in different situations. This is a myth that people don't seem
to
understand is not true.

- Circuit Breakers cut off power in the case of an overload condition
(too
much current through the breaker.
- GFCI's cut off power in the case of a ground fault -- that is, the
power
going out the hot slot does not balance with the power coming into the
neutral side -- which potentially means current is flowing through
someone's
body to ground, e.g. someone is being electricuted.

GFCI's will NOT protect against overcurrent. That's why you need both
devices. GFCI breakers have both functions combined into one package.

-Tim



While you are somewhat correct, pulling a few words out of context means
little.
As many GFI outlets also have overcurrent protection built in.

I do agree that a GFI should also be used in conjunction with a proper
circuit breaker.
But I never stated it shouldn't be.

The OP was concerned about damage after a lighting strike.

The need for a GFI is probably unwarranted for a microwave, and can be
replaced with a regular outlet.
And if the GFI is tripping it could also be caused by damage to the
microwave plugged into it.

If you read my complete post, you might have seen that.

AMUN

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
While GFCI protection is not required for a "microwave" it is required for
all kitchen counter outlets regardless of what may be plugged into them


Perhaps where you live, but not here, and I'm sure in many other locals
they are not mandatory.

I suppose the one it really matters to is the OP.

AMUN

If he lives in the U.S. and his electrical wiring is subject to the NEC,
then it's a requirement


"Amun" wrote in message
...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
While GFCI protection is not required for a "microwave" it is required
for
all kitchen counter outlets regardless of what may be plugged into them


Perhaps where you live, but not here, and I'm sure in many other locals
they are not mandatory.

I suppose the one it really matters to is the OP.

AMUN

So we can see there are definitely different rules in different areas.

Here in a kitchen all (new)counter outlets MUST be split with two branch
circuits, and only 2 outlets total on any (kitchen) circuit.
So GFI outlets are not even possible.

GFI's are only required within 3 feet of a sink/tub/shower, or outdoor
outlets.
And ALL GFI outlets MUST be grounded.

And remember that "new construction" and "repairs" are governed by different
rules.

Personally I still think GFI's are over-rated by many, and are not only
unnecessary in many places, but simply don't work.
Appliances with motors often fry them.
e.g. Refrigerators, Washers, Freezers, Sump Pumps, etc.


AMUN






"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
If he lives in the U.S. and his electrical wiring is subject to the NEC,
then it's a requirement


"Amun" wrote in message
...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
While GFCI protection is not required for a "microwave" it is required
for
all kitchen counter outlets regardless of what may be plugged into them


Perhaps where you live, but not here, and I'm sure in many other locals
they are not mandatory.

I suppose the one it really matters to is the OP.

AMUN

In article ,
says...
So we can see there are definitely different rules in different areas.

Here in a kitchen all (new)counter outlets MUST be split with two branch
circuits, and only 2 outlets total on any (kitchen) circuit.
So GFI outlets are not even possible.

Why aren't GFCI outlets possible?

BTW, the refrigerator is a kitchen outlet and must be on a (another) separate
circuit with *no* GFCI.

GFI's are only required within 3 feet of a sink/tub/shower, or outdoor
outlets.

Unless a refrigerator is plugged in on an "outdoor" (or garage) circuit.

And ALL GFI outlets MUST be grounded.

That's not true. All *new* circuits must be grounded. Older homes may have
ungrounded circuits and it is preferred that they are protected by GFCIs.

And remember that "new construction" and "repairs" are governed by different
rules.

Sure, as well as "existing".

Personally I still think GFI's are over-rated by many, and are not only
unnecessary in many places, but simply don't work.

They simply *do* work. It's not only your life you're playing with here.

Appliances with motors often fry them.
e.g. Refrigerators, Washers, Freezers, Sump Pumps, etc.

They are not required nor suggested for refrigerators, freezers, or quite
likely sump pumps (dunno about the latter, but the same reasoning applies).

--
Keith

I've never heard of a GFCI being "fried" by a motor. The reason that
certain large appliances (refrigerators, freezers, sump pumps) are allowed
not to be on a GFCI is that the startup surge current of the motors
sometimes causes them to false-trip. They don't FRY though, you simply have
to reset them. But by the time you notice, the food has spoiled or the
basement has flooded.

-Tim

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
I've never heard of a GFCI being "fried" by a motor. The reason that
certain large appliances (refrigerators, freezers, sump pumps) are allowed
not to be on a GFCI is that the startup surge current of the motors
sometimes causes them to false-trip. They don't FRY though, you simply
have
to reset them. But by the time you notice, the food has spoiled or the
basement has flooded.

-Tim


Yes, it is the motor starting currents that do the damage.

That's why most appliance makers state they do not recommend GFI's being
used right in the instruction manuals.
Often the electronics do fry, but without any outward signs.

Even "dirty" power (surges/brownouts) to a house can eventually do them in.

e.g. it doesn't trip anymore,.....ever,..... even when it should.

I would lay odds if you checked a bunch of GFI's that were "in use"
randomly, probably over half would not be offering ANY protection, or be so
far out of spec to be effectively useless..

How many have you ever seen properly "tested" after they were in use for a
while though ?
Those test buttons on most only cause a dead short, not a real ground fault
test.

That's why I laugh at the people here who say, GFI's don't even need a
ground.
Once there is no protection, you might as well just have a .89 cent outlet.


AMUN

In article ,
says...

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
I've never heard of a GFCI being "fried" by a motor. The reason that
certain large appliances (refrigerators, freezers, sump pumps) are allowed
not to be on a GFCI is that the startup surge current of the motors
sometimes causes them to false-trip. They don't FRY though, you simply
have
to reset them. But by the time you notice, the food has spoiled or the
basement has flooded.

-Tim


Yes, it is the motor starting currents that do the damage.

That's why most appliance makers state they do not recommend GFI's being
used right in the instruction manuals.
Often the electronics do fry, but without any outward signs.

Even "dirty" power (surges/brownouts) to a house can eventually do them in.

e.g. it doesn't trip anymore,.....ever,..... even when it should.

I would lay odds if you checked a bunch of GFI's that were "in use"
randomly, probably over half would not be offering ANY protection, or be so
far out of spec to be effectively useless..

How many have you ever seen properly "tested" after they were in use for a
while though ?
Those test buttons on most only cause a dead short, not a real ground fault
test.

BS! The test button puts a resistor across the hot (load side) to the neutral
(line side) to imbalance the current (by 10mA or so) in the load side hot and
neutral wires. This acts *exactly* like a fault to ground and the GFCI trips
exactly in the same way it would from any other ground fault. If the test
button shorted the output there would be much smoke.

That's why I laugh at the people here who say, GFI's don't even need a
ground.

They don't! All circuits *should* have a ground (though some legacy circuits
don't) but a GFCI does _not_ need a ground to function properly. An ungrounded
circuit protected by a GFCI is far safer then an ungrounded circuit not so
protected.

Once there is no protection, you might as well just have a .89 cent outlet.

While this is true of any safety device, a functioning GFCI may save your life!
Are you against smoke alarms because some don't test them every month? After
all, a smoke alarm with a dead battery might just as well be an ugly wart on
the ceiling.

--
Keith

"krw" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,

says...

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
I've never heard of a GFCI being "fried" by a motor. The reason that
certain large appliances (refrigerators, freezers, sump pumps) are
allowed
not to be on a GFCI is that the startup surge current of the motors
sometimes causes them to false-trip. They don't FRY though, you
simply
have
to reset them. But by the time you notice, the food has spoiled or
the
basement has flooded.

-Tim


Yes, it is the motor starting currents that do the damage.

That's why most appliance makers state they do not recommend GFI's being
used right in the instruction manuals.
Often the electronics do fry, but without any outward signs.

Even "dirty" power (surges/brownouts) to a house can eventually do them
in.

e.g. it doesn't trip anymore,.....ever,..... even when it should.

I would lay odds if you checked a bunch of GFI's that were "in use"
randomly, probably over half would not be offering ANY protection, or
be so
far out of spec to be effectively useless..

How many have you ever seen properly "tested" after they were in use for
a
while though ?
Those test buttons on most only cause a dead short, not a real ground
fault
test.

BS! The test button puts a resistor across the hot (load side) to the
neutral
(line side) to imbalance the current (by 10mA or so) in the load side hot
and
neutral wires. This acts *exactly* like a fault to ground and the GFCI
trips
exactly in the same way it would from any other ground fault. If the test
button shorted the output there would be much smoke.

That's why I laugh at the people here who say, GFI's don't even need a
ground.

They don't! All circuits *should* have a ground (though some legacy
circuits
don't) but a GFCI does _not_ need a ground to function properly. An
ungrounded
circuit protected by a GFCI is far safer then an ungrounded circuit not so
protected.

Once there is no protection, you might as well just have a .89 cent
outlet.

While this is true of any safety device, a functioning GFCI may save your
life!
Are you against smoke alarms because some don't test them every month?
After
all, a smoke alarm with a dead battery might just as well be an ugly wart
on
the ceiling.

--
Keith


Get a life

Plonk

Amun,

Sorry to come off rude, but you obviously don't know what you're talking
about, and I ask that you please not answer questions related to GFCI
outlets or any other area that you don't have knowledge in. Your advice is
incorrect, and could be downright dangerous.

If you disagree with my assessment, could you please provide cites for the
following 'facts' that you have claimed to be true:

- GFCI's are not required in kitchens
- GFCI's can be damaged by motors in common appliances such as
refrigerators.
- GFCI's test buttons short out the circuit (which is prehaps the most
idiotic thing you've said yet).
- GFCI's can trip due to overcurrent situations.
- etc.

I don't suspect you'll reply with said cites, but instead try to slander me
and then say "Plonk". Mind proving me wrong?

-Tim

Tim Fischer wrote:
Amun,

Sorry to come off rude, but you obviously don't know what you're talking
about, and I ask that you please not answer questions related to GFCI
outlets or any other area that you don't have knowledge in. Your advice is
incorrect, and could be downright dangerous.

If you disagree with my assessment, could you please provide cites for the
following 'facts' that you have claimed to be true:



AMUN Can provide nothing. He never has and never will. Warned AHR many
times about his crappy and you said it, dangerous advice.

Thank you for responding to this yutz.

--
WARNING:

Do NOT under any circumstances take advice from an idiot named AMUN.

Regarding tile, electrical, HVAC, painting, drywall, plastering, lawn
mower repair and various other construction issues, AMUN is a clueless
moron. As things go AMUN will dissapear as his kind usually does when
confronted with their bad advice by those who are knowledgeable in their
respective fields. Until then - BEWARE

Tim, well put but your wasting your time, this guy just seems to make it up
as he goes along. Unfortunately , I think this is a game to him and
intentionally or not, he could be putting people in danger



"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
Amun,

Sorry to come off rude, but you obviously don't know what you're talking
about, and I ask that you please not answer questions related to GFCI
outlets or any other area that you don't have knowledge in. Your advice
is incorrect, and could be downright dangerous.

If you disagree with my assessment, could you please provide cites for the
following 'facts' that you have claimed to be true:

- GFCI's are not required in kitchens
- GFCI's can be damaged by motors in common appliances such as
refrigerators.
- GFCI's test buttons short out the circuit (which is prehaps the most
idiotic thing you've said yet).
- GFCI's can trip due to overcurrent situations.
- etc.

I don't suspect you'll reply with said cites, but instead try to slander
me and then say "Plonk". Mind proving me wrong?

-Tim

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:31:17 -0400, Amun wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,

says...

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
...
I've never heard of a GFCI being "fried" by a motor. The reason that
certain large appliances (refrigerators, freezers, sump pumps) are
allowed
not to be on a GFCI is that the startup surge current of the motors
sometimes causes them to false-trip. They don't FRY though, you
simply
have
to reset them. But by the time you notice, the food has spoiled or
the
basement has flooded.

-Tim


Yes, it is the motor starting currents that do the damage.

That's why most appliance makers state they do not recommend GFI's being
used right in the instruction manuals.
Often the electronics do fry, but without any outward signs.

Even "dirty" power (surges/brownouts) to a house can eventually do them
in.

e.g. it doesn't trip anymore,.....ever,..... even when it should.

I would lay odds if you checked a bunch of GFI's that were "in use"
randomly, probably over half would not be offering ANY protection, or
be so
far out of spec to be effectively useless..

How many have you ever seen properly "tested" after they were in use for
a
while though ?
Those test buttons on most only cause a dead short, not a real ground
fault
test.

BS! The test button puts a resistor across the hot (load side) to the
neutral
(line side) to imbalance the current (by 10mA or so) in the load side hot
and
neutral wires. This acts *exactly* like a fault to ground and the GFCI
trips
exactly in the same way it would from any other ground fault. If the test
button shorted the output there would be much smoke.

That's why I laugh at the people here who say, GFI's don't even need a
ground.

They don't! All circuits *should* have a ground (though some legacy
circuits
don't) but a GFCI does _not_ need a ground to function properly. An
ungrounded
circuit protected by a GFCI is far safer then an ungrounded circuit not so
protected.

Once there is no protection, you might as well just have a .89 cent
outlet.

While this is true of any safety device, a functioning GFCI may save your
life!
Are you against smoke alarms because some don't test them every month?
After
all, a smoke alarm with a dead battery might just as well be an ugly wart
on
the ceiling.

--
Keith


Get a life

Get a brain and stop telling people to fry themselves.

Plonk

Oh, I'm so distrought! ...idiot.

--
Keith

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:22:20 -0400, RBM wrote:

Tim, well put but your wasting your time, this guy just seems to make it up
as he goes along. Unfortunately , I think this is a game to him and
intentionally or not, he could be putting people in danger
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly! ...and the idiot should be chastised every time he show up.

--
Keith

keith wrote:
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:22:20 -0400, RBM wrote:


Tim, well put but your wasting your time, this guy just seems to make it up
as he goes along. Unfortunately , I think this is a game to him and
intentionally or not, he could be putting people in danger

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly! ...and the idiot should be chastised every time he show up.


Not a problem.

--
WARNING:

Do NOT under any circumstances take advice from an idiot named AMUN.

Regarding tile, electrical, HVAC, painting, drywall, plastering, lawn
mower repair and various other construction issues, AMUN is a clueless
moron. As things go AMUN will dissapear as his kind usually does when
confronted with their bad advice by those who are knowledgeable in their
respective fields. Until then - BEWARE

krw wrote:


--
WARNING:

Do NOT under any circumstances take advice from an idiot named AMUN.

Regarding tile, electrical, HVAC, painting, drywall, plastering, lawn
mower repair and various other construction issues, AMUN is a clueless
moron. As things go AMUN will dissapear as his kind usually does when
confronted with their bad advice by those who are knowledgeable in their
respective fields. Until then - BEWARE

House Mouse wrote:
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:43:40 -0400, "Amun"

Once there is no protection, you might as well just have a .89 cent outlet.


AMUN



I've been reading this thread with some interest. I have long
suspected that GFI's are more or less snake oil. I.e., not worth the
cost.

Any way I have a question.

How do you test a GFI.

HM




You need protection from the likes of AMUN

--
WARNING:

Do NOT under any circumstances take advice from an idiot named AMUN.

Regarding tile, electrical, HVAC, painting, drywall, plastering, lawn
mower repair and various other construction issues, AMUN is a clueless
moron. As things go AMUN will dissapear as his kind usually does when
confronted with their bad advice by those who are knowledgeable in their
respective fields. Until then - BEWARE

In article , House Mouse wrote:

How do you test a GFI. I dont mean pushing the button I mean down the
line. If you use a GFI outlet to protect several load outlets how can
you be sure that the last outlet on the load side is protected? I
know I could just force a dead short with a piece of wire in the
outlet but I am reluctant to do that in case the GFI fails I dont want
to end up with a large black mark on my outlet. I also dont want to
fry the GFI with a huge current spike.

For about ten bucks at home centers or hardware stores, you can buy a plug-in
outlet tester that has a GFCI test button on it. Plug it in, push the button,
and if the test lights all go out, the outlet is adequately protected.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
says...
In article , House Mouse wrote:

How do you test a GFI. I dont mean pushing the button I mean down the
line. If you use a GFI outlet to protect several load outlets how can
you be sure that the last outlet on the load side is protected? I
know I could just force a dead short with a piece of wire in the
outlet but I am reluctant to do that in case the GFI fails I dont want
to end up with a large black mark on my outlet. I also dont want to
fry the GFI with a huge current spike.

For about ten bucks at home centers or hardware stores, you can buy a plug-in
outlet tester that has a GFCI test button on it. Plug it in, push the button,
and if the test lights all go out, the outlet is adequately protected.

Many of these are also "three-light-testers" and will also warn of miswired
outlets. However, these testers will not work on ungrounded circuits since
they bleed current to ground rather than the neutral upstream of the GFCI.

--
Keith