Anyone else notice the ad for dehumidifiers on Bob Vila's web site,
which says "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier"?

If it's 75 F and 80% RH indoors and outdoors, 11.8% of people would find
that "too warm," according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard.

Dehumidifiers add about 1600 Btu/pint. An average house with 400 Btu/h-F
of conductance and 200 cfm of air leakage would be 79 F with 65% RH with
a dehum removing 1 lb/h of water, and 27.3% would find that "too warm."

OTOH, an AC using the same electricity and removing 1500 Btu/h of heat
and 1.5 lb/h of water would leave the house 71.3 F and 82% RH indoors,
and only 5.1% would find that "too warm." (We can't please everyone--
about 5% of the population will always be dissatisfied.)

Clicking on "How to contact Bob Vila" brings a message saying you can't :-)

Nick

Try this scenario, almost up your alley. Home without AC.

If you must have weather data, pick Duluth Minnesota. It can get hot
there, well above averages. Assume a somewhat inland from Lake
Superior.

Small place, 900 square foot main floor, 900 square foot basement,
undisturbed R40 blown into ceiling, walls poorly insulated, lathe and
plaster, recovered with vinyl siding, similar to 2x4 framed walls.
67,000 Btu/hr 80% AFUE furnace more than adequate for heat loss, no
cooling load ever sized but would be no bigger than 1.5 ton.

Basement floor 5.5 ft below grade, 8 foot to under side of joists, main
floor 9 foot ceilings.

Basement walls, 10 inch poured concrete, no insulation added.

Windows upgraded to double pane low e. Natural infiltration sufficient
to avoid winter condensation, not high enough to warrant use of
humidifier.

Large picture window facing east, perhaps 8'x5', two at 3x3 windows
west.

North and south walls, two at 3x3 windows. Guessing that eaves overhang
by 2 feet and were typically 2 feet above top of windows

Curtains drawn to keep sun out as best it can.

House with basement, basement tends to be cool, like 66F in summer,
will get warm upstairs.

Run dehumidifier in basement.

Imagine access door on return air drop, open the access door. Run
furnace fan, most return gets drawn from basement, cool thermal storage
of air in basement gets re-distributed upstairs.

Upstairs will cool off a couple degrees, below grade effect takes the
air from upstairs and sensible heat rejected by dehumidifier, basement
temp stabalizes at 68.

End up typically with 78F upstairs humidity less than 60%.

I lived it for a couple summers, dehumidifier made a big difference.

Also helped to have spare bed down in basement.

Need airflow take 67,000 input, 80% afue, 60 degree ATR

wrote:
Anyone else notice the ad for dehumidifiers on Bob Vila's web site,
which says "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier"?

If it's 75 F and 80% RH indoors and outdoors, 11.8% of people would find
that "too warm," according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard.

Dehumidifiers add about 1600 Btu/pint. An average house with 400 Btu/h-F
of conductance and 200 cfm of air leakage would be 79 F with 65% RH with
a dehum removing 1 lb/h of water, and 27.3% would find that "too warm."

OTOH, an AC using the same electricity and removing 1500 Btu/h of heat
and 1.5 lb/h of water would leave the house 71.3 F and 82% RH indoors,
and only 5.1% would find that "too warm." (We can't please everyone--
about 5% of the population will always be dissatisfied.)

Clicking on "How to contact Bob Vila" brings a message saying you can't :-)

Nick

Abby Normal wrote:

Try this scenario, almost up your alley. Home without AC.

If you must have weather data, pick Duluth Minnesota...

Ah yes... 66.1 F in July, with 55.1 and 77.1 average daily min and max
and w = 0.010 (not very humid.)

It can get hot there, well above averages.

A 30-year record max of 97.0...

Basement walls, 10 inch poured concrete, no insulation added.

Windows upgraded to double pane low e. Natural infiltration sufficient
to avoid winter condensation, not high enough to warrant use of humidifier.

Large picture window facing east, perhaps 8'x5', two at 3x3 windows west.

Unshaded...

Curtains drawn to keep sun out as best it can...

...basement tends to be cool, like 66F in summer, will get warm upstairs.

Average yearly air (and deep ground) temp: 38.5 F.

Run dehumidifier in basement.

For heat :-)

Imagine access door on return air drop, open the access door. Run
furnace fan, most return gets drawn from basement, cool thermal storage
of air in basement gets re-distributed upstairs.

Upstairs will cool off a couple degrees, below grade effect takes the
air from upstairs and sensible heat rejected by dehumidifier, basement
temp stabalizes at 68.

End up typically with 78F upstairs humidity less than 60%.

Warming outdoor air to 78 would make the RH 48%...

I lived it for a couple summers, dehumidifier made a big difference.

You mighta froze without it.

Nick

I actually grew up north of there. They just had about two weeks of 90.
Heat wave for there.

It just illustrates how you live for averages.

wrote:
Abby Normal wrote:

Try this scenario, almost up your alley. Home without AC.

If you must have weather data, pick Duluth Minnesota...

Ah yes... 66.1 F in July, with 55.1 and 77.1 average daily min and max
and w = 0.010 (not very humid.)

It can get hot there, well above averages.

A 30-year record max of 97.0...

Basement walls, 10 inch poured concrete, no insulation added.

Windows upgraded to double pane low e. Natural infiltration sufficient
to avoid winter condensation, not high enough to warrant use of humidifier.

Large picture window facing east, perhaps 8'x5', two at 3x3 windows west.

Unshaded...

Curtains drawn to keep sun out as best it can...

...basement tends to be cool, like 66F in summer, will get warm upstairs.

Average yearly air (and deep ground) temp: 38.5 F.

Run dehumidifier in basement.

For heat :-)

Imagine access door on return air drop, open the access door. Run
furnace fan, most return gets drawn from basement, cool thermal storage
of air in basement gets re-distributed upstairs.

Upstairs will cool off a couple degrees, below grade effect takes the
air from upstairs and sensible heat rejected by dehumidifier, basement
temp stabalizes at 68.

End up typically with 78F upstairs humidity less than 60%.

Warming outdoor air to 78 would make the RH 48%...

I lived it for a couple summers, dehumidifier made a big difference.

You mighta froze without it.

Nick

Abby Normal wrote:

I actually grew up north of there. They just had about two weeks of 90.
Heat wave for there.

It just illustrates how you live for averages.

Rational people do, if they pay for air conditioning.

Nick

wrote:
Rational people do, if they pay for air conditioning.

Nick

See

Give you an example how you can actually get by without an air
conditioner and you finally relaize that your irrational schemes do not
work

Your mother must have gone a long way with reverse psychology on you

Nicky could have more simply stated:

A dehumidifier is a net heat producing device. Bob Vila's web site
says, "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier." To dateless nerds
such as me at Villanova, this seems like an extremely important
semantical issue to discuss.

For Christ sake, Nicky - we all know that an operating dehumidifier adds heat
to a enclosed space and that it doesn't literally cool the room or its
occupants. And we don't need a page full of moronic math & stats to drive the
point home. I really doubt that anybody on this newsgroup is impressed
with your ability to G&P (Google & Parrot) an endless stream of marginally
relevant math, formulas and stats repeated to 10 or 12 significent digits.

Most guys on campus your age are wasting the afternoon out on the quad
on a blanket with a sweet young coed. You should be screwing at least
one new girl per month or you're wasting your college years. Give it a try.

Gideon

PS: If you are in the divinity program at Villanova, then substitute
"choir boy" for either "coed" or "girl" where the paragraph above
mentions how often you should be getting laid.

==================================
Top posted for the benefit of folks who want to
get the newest material in the quickest manner.
==================================

wrote in message ...
Anyone else notice the ad for dehumidifiers on Bob Vila's web site,
which says "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier"?

If it's 75 F and 80% RH indoors and outdoors, 11.8% of people would find
that "too warm," according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard.

Dehumidifiers add about 1600 Btu/pint. An average house with 400 Btu/h-F
of conductance and 200 cfm of air leakage would be 79 F with 65% RH with
a dehum removing 1 lb/h of water, and 27.3% would find that "too warm."

OTOH, an AC using the same electricity and removing 1500 Btu/h of heat
and 1.5 lb/h of water would leave the house 71.3 F and 82% RH indoors,
and only 5.1% would find that "too warm." (We can't please everyone--
about 5% of the population will always be dissatisfied.)

Clicking on "How to contact Bob Vila" brings a message saying you can't :-)

Nick

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:47:22 GMT, "Gideon" wrote:

Nicky could have more simply stated:

A dehumidifier is a net heat producing device. Bob Vila's web site
says, "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier." To dateless nerds
such as me at Villanova, this seems like an extremely important
semantical issue to discuss.

For Christ sake, Nicky - we all know that an operating dehumidifier adds heat
to a enclosed space and that it doesn't literally cool the room or its
occupants. And we don't need a page full of moronic math & stats to drive the
point home. I really doubt that anybody on this newsgroup is impressed
with your ability to G&P (Google & Parrot) an endless stream of marginally
relevant math, formulas and stats repeated to 10 or 12 significent digits.

Most guys on campus your age are wasting the afternoon out on the quad
on a blanket with a sweet young coed.

No, they are in their hole-in-the-wall offices with a
telescope behind the curtain, LOOKING at the co-eds :-)

You should be screwing at least
one new girl per month or you're wasting your college years. Give it a try.

Decades, not years.
Gideon

PS: If you are in the divinity program at Villanova, then substitute
"choir boy" for either "coed" or "girl" where the paragraph above
mentions how often you should be getting laid.

Oh, that one's gonna leave a mark ....


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Gideon wrote:

...we all know that an operating dehumidifier adds heat to a enclosed
space and that it doesn't literally cool the room or its occupants.

Bob Vila disagrees, as do some homeowners and HVAC people who think
it's a good idea to dehum and AC at the same time. And we don't know
that doesn't add comfort without a calculation.

Lose the tude, dude.

Nick

Nicky,

Go get laid. It will do wonders for your attitude and it may even
clear up your complexion.

Gideon.


PS: You could be an extremely valuable contributor to this newsgroup
and others if you would just come down from those ivory towers and
communicate in "English." Drop the pretensions and join us sub-190-IQ
folks.

Paul wrote

No, they are in their hole-in-the-wall offices with a
telescope behind the curtain, LOOKING at the co-eds :-)

==============

Well, I must admit that I spent 3 months in a somewhat
analogous manner. I was a relatively young, married guy
working on a Spring contract with a major university. I
had a second floor window office close to & facing the quad,
with an awesome view of marginally clad young females.

I'd been out of school for about a decade & I'd forgotten how
damned hard it was for a health male to concentrate when
anywhere near a campus quad in the springtime. The wife
never did figure out why I was so damned horny for those 90
days.

Of course, I had a legitimate reason for looking but not touching.
I doubt if Nicky does.

Gideon

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:47:16 GMT, "Gideon" wrote:


Paul wrote

No, they are in their hole-in-the-wall offices with a
telescope behind the curtain, LOOKING at the co-eds :-)

==============

Well, I must admit that I spent 3 months in a somewhat
analogous manner. I was a relatively young, married guy
working on a Spring contract with a major university. I
had a second floor window office close to & facing the quad,
with an awesome view of marginally clad young females.

I'd been out of school for about a decade & I'd forgotten how
damned hard it was for a health male to concentrate when
anywhere near a campus quad in the springtime. The wife
never did figure out why I was so damned horny for those 90
days.

Of course, I had a legitimate reason for looking but not touching.
I doubt if Nicky does.

Gideon


Well, with one hand on his telescope, and his other hand ....
shall we say 'otherwise occupied' ? ..... that doesn't leave any free
for touching the babes .....


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/