In article ,
Ed Kaz wrote:
I have just purshased a kenmore 64 quart dehumidifier for my basement and
have a few questions.

1. Does dehumidifier produce heat?? (it was cool in the basement before
installation).

2. Can I install it in a wall. I have a wall that seperates the work area
from the kids play room. Does the back of this unit have to be in the same
room (filter on back)??

QUESTION: what's the difference between a dehumidifier (electric)
and a (window) air-conditioner?

1: Biggest difference is that the air-conditioner has
it's back end *outside the house*; therefore the
heat generated by the compressor-running (watts
turned into heat) ends up *outside*

, whereas the humidifier sits 100% *inside* the house,
acting not only to dehumidify but also to *heat*
the place.

If dehumidifier (ie the compressor) eats 300 watts,
it's equivalent to having an (almost?) 300-watt
space-heater instead.

2: So the room not only loses water (into the bucket)
but gains heat, the temperature rises.

Thanks to the nice observation by another responder,
we now know that simply the rise in temperature *alone*
(ie even with *no* water going from the air into the bucket)
causes the "*relative* humidity" to decrease -- ie,
you could consider a plain space-heater to be a "dehumidifier",
in that sense. (Obviously better to remove the water
from the air in the room via emptying the bucket down the
drain or out the door.)


QUESTION: is the lack of heating the room (in fact, the opposite,
*cooling* the room) about the only difference between
a window a/c and the in-room humidifier?

In other words, wouldn't a window a/c be about as good
at removing water from the air as the dehumidifier?

What about the cost?


Thanks for whatever enlightenment readers can add to this
thread.

Interesting topic, this dehumidifier stuff.


David

David Combs wrote:

In article ,
Ed Kaz wrote:
I have just purshased a kenmore 64 quart dehumidifier for my basement and
have a few questions.

1. Does dehumidifier produce heat?? (it was cool in the basement before
installation).

2. Can I install it in a wall. I have a wall that seperates the work area
from the kids play room. Does the back of this unit have to be in the same
room (filter on back)??

QUESTION: what's the difference between a dehumidifier (electric)
and a (window) air-conditioner?

1: Biggest difference is that the air-conditioner has
it's back end *outside the house*; therefore the
heat generated by the compressor-running (watts
turned into heat) ends up *outside*

, whereas the humidifier sits 100% *inside* the house,
acting not only to dehumidify but also to *heat*
the place.

If dehumidifier (ie the compressor) eats 300 watts,
it's equivalent to having an (almost?) 300-watt
space-heater instead.

2: So the room not only loses water (into the bucket)
but gains heat, the temperature rises.

Thanks to the nice observation by another responder,
we now know that simply the rise in temperature *alone*
(ie even with *no* water going from the air into the bucket)
causes the "*relative* humidity" to decrease -- ie,
you could consider a plain space-heater to be a "dehumidifier",
in that sense. (Obviously better to remove the water
from the air in the room via emptying the bucket down the
drain or out the door.)

QUESTION: is the lack of heating the room (in fact, the opposite,
*cooling* the room) about the only difference between
a window a/c and the in-room humidifier?

In other words, wouldn't a window a/c be about as good
at removing water from the air as the dehumidifier?

What about the cost?

Thanks for whatever enlightenment readers can add to this
thread.

Interesting topic, this dehumidifier stuff.

David

Agree: Our smallish dehumidifier operated semi continuously in a
10 by 12 other wise unventilated basement room noticeably warms
the room and also removes several pints/litres of moisture, which
is removed and dumped, to the benefit of electronic equipment,
papers and books in the room. It seems to us to be the best
solution. We estimate the cost is in the region of 2-3 cents per
hour of operation; probably around 25 to 40 cents per day. The
only modification I might make is to run the fan continuously to
help circulate air and have the cooling compressor continue to be
controlled by the humidistat of the unit. IIRC correctly our unit
cost around $150 Canadian; roughly $100 US or approximately 70 UK
pounds, about three to four years ago.
If used in a very damp and cold location (an unheated garage for
example) such a dehumidifier can 'ice up'. Recommendation I
believe is to not use them below 40 deg. Fahrenheit? Alternatives
then might be to a) Heat/warm the area b) Install a timer to shut
off the unit so that it can regularly 'defrost' (like many
fridges!) and at the same time rewire the fan to run continuously
to draw air through the cooling coils so as to melt the ice on
them. Terry.
PS. Yes as I understand an air conditioner takes heat out the
house and pumps it outside (or into the ground or whatever is
used as the cooling medium) in just the same way that a fridge,
on a smaller scale, pumps heat out of its insides into the room
it is in.
I wished I lived next to a pond! Then one could use the pond/lake
water as a source of heat in winter and a means of cooling in
summer; with a two way heat pump/cooling system.

....snip

I must be getting the two parts confused. Is the outside part
of an air conditioner called the condenser or the evaporator? I know
that the outside part is where the gas is compressed and therefore
heated. A fan blows across the heated coils to cool the gas. The
inside part is where the gas expands and therefore is cooler. The
compression and subsequent expansion maintains an approximately
similar temperature difference, so that the cooled compressed gas
becomes much cooler expanded gas. The inside part (which I thought
was called the condenser) is where water from the air condenses. In
the units I have here, that water runs through a pipe to the outside.
It does not run over the coils or does not otherwise re-humidify the
inside air.

As further proof, the current outside temperature is currently
70 deg F and the relative humidity is 100% (ugh!) The inside
temperature is also 70 deg F, but the relative humidity is 65% with
the central air in this section of the house is running (started about
an hour ago). I'd have to say that some dehumidification is
occurring.

No argument here, btw, just a bit confused.

--
Larry

"L. M. Rappaport" wrote in message
I must be getting the two parts confused. Is the outside part
of an air conditioner called the condenser or the evaporator?

Outside = condenser
Inside = evaporator

The inside part (which I thought
was called the condenser) is where water from the air condenses.

Water from the air condenses, but liquid from the compressor evaporates.

Our basement dehumidifier has been running all summer long in an attempt
to keep the basement below 75% humidity. Quite an accomplishment when you
consider the upstairs humidity is over 80% (it been a really humid summer).

We're faced with the same problem as the original posting, the
dehumidifier is heating up the basment. If I had the money and I lived
further south (its only hot here two monthes a year) I'd install a whole
house air conditioner an nail shut the windows. Perhaps I can vent the
dehumidifier to the outside.

Randy

L. M. Rappaport wrote in message

I must be getting the two parts confused. Is the outside
part of an air conditioner called the condenser or the
evaporator?

Condenser.

The inside part (which I thought was called the condenser)
is where water from the air condenses.

Since these are parts of a *refrigeration system*, their terminology
describes their function in relation *to the refrigerant* inside them. The
"evaporator" is where the refrigerant gas evaporates absorbing heat in the
process. It has nothing to do with the condensate produced as a byproduct of
the refrigeration process.

I know that the outside part is where the gas is compressed
and therefore heated.

The compressor is what compresses the gas. The condenser just removes heat
from the refrigerant so it can condense into a liquid.

The inside part is where the gas expands and therefore
is cooler.

The refrigeant is forced to evaporate in the evaporator which causes it to
absorb heat making if *feel* colder.

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=air+conditioner

=Ð~~~~~~

"L. M. Rappaport" wrote in message
...
....snip

I must be getting the two parts confused. Is the outside part
of an air conditioner called the condenser or the evaporator? I know
that the outside part is where the gas is compressed and therefore
heated.
CY: The outside part is the condensor. When the gas is compressed, it allows
it to release the heat. It is not "therefore heated" any more than a wet
sponge is squeezed and "therefore made wet".


A fan blows across the heated coils to cool the gas.
CY: A fan blows across the condensor coils while the heated gas inside
condenses into liquid refrigerant.



The
inside part is where the gas expands and therefore is cooler. The
compression and subsequent expansion maintains an approximately
similar temperature difference, so that the cooled compressed gas
becomes much cooler expanded gas.
CY: If the system is running well, the refrigerant that reaches the
evaporator (inside coil) should be liquid.



The inside part is where water from the air condenses. In
the units I have here, that water runs through a pipe to the outside.
It does not run over the coils or does not otherwise re-humidify the
inside air.
CY: The water drains off the indoor coils. The indoor coils are where liquid
refrigerant evaporates, and turns into refrigerant vapor.



As further proof, the current outside temperature is currently
70 deg F and the relative humidity is 100% (ugh!) The inside
temperature is also 70 deg F, but the relative humidity is 65% with
the central air in this section of the house is running (started about
an hour ago). I'd have to say that some dehumidification is
occurring.
CY: yes, the refrigerant evaporating in the evaporator helps moisture to be
removed from the air.



No argument here, btw, just a bit confused.
CY: Think freon! The humidity schtick is incidental.


--
Larry