In article ,
AL wrote:

If you want to see a rant thread get going just toss out a few ideas on
disposing of 1 gal of year old gasoline - that *really* flushes out the
nutcases!

Anything wrong with pouring it into your vehicle's tank (as long as
we're not talking diesel) and then diluting with more fresh gas?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

AL wrote:
Charlie Self wrote:

My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
means refilling the oil reserve more often.


snip


AL

So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.

Harry K

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:03:46 GMT, in alt.home.repair Do you
use bar oil in your chainsaw? "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.

Harry K


I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.

Good point.

--
To reply to me directly, remove the CLUTTER from my email address.

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?

Any comments?

Dean


Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.

I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls that are
about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced the oil pumps in
each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and labour each time. Each
saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75 cords of firewood each year. I
do believe I have saved good amount of money over the last 20 years by using
used motor oil and getting new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar
oil.

It works for me.

Harry K wrote:

AL wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:


My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
means refilling the oil reserve more often.



snip

AL


So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.

Harry K



Try actually reading before responding.

No, my argument is that, since the chainsaw is self oiling with a
constant flow of oil from the resevoir to replace what is thrown off or
dragged off by cutting the wood, it is not as important to have a sticky
oil as it is for a motorcycle chain that receives an occasional oiling
that must adhere to the chain for as long as possible thus making the
sticky oil necessary - whew...

As to whether used motor oil works for chainsaws, just go back up the
thread for proof.

AL

In article ,
"HeadHunter" wrote:

I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls that are
about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced the oil pumps in
each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and labour each time. Each
saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75 cords of firewood each year. I
do believe I have saved good amount of money over the last 20 years by using
used motor oil and getting new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar
oil.

It works for me.

Damn, my chainsaw is bankrupting me. I only use Mobil 1 synthetic -
gotta buy it by the gallons. I'm looking into getting it by the drum.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

HeadHunter wrote:
"dean" wrote:

Because every professional user I have ever seen is using
10W30 engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my
Stihls but I was just wondering if I am wasting money on
expensive bar oil?

Any comments?


Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.

I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls
that are about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced
the oil pumps in each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and
labour each time. Each saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75
cords of firewood each year. I do believe I have saved good amount
of money over the last 20 years by using used motor oil and getting
new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar oil.

It works for me.


Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?

wrote in message
oups.com...
HeadHunter wrote:
"dean" wrote:

Because every professional user I have ever seen is using
10W30 engine oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my
Stihls but I was just wondering if I am wasting money on
expensive bar oil?

Any comments?


Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.

I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls
that are about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced
the oil pumps in each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and
labour each time. Each saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75
cords of firewood each year. I do believe I have saved good amount
of money over the last 20 years by using used motor oil and getting
new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar oil.

It works for me.


Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?

Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a 33
to 40 cents a day difference.

I cut firewood for a decent second income. I figure my work season, not
including rainy days, when I just split or clean brush is 100 days a year.
I spend about 30 days actually delivering to bring it up to 130. If I use
my saws, (I use a smaller stihl bar and motor for smaller work) for those
100 days of work that 33 cents is 33 dollars for one year. I do believe I
have been doing firewood at the same pace for 20 years, BUT for accuracy
sake lets go down to 15 years. That 15 years = 495 dollars. I have spent
about 160 in repairs to the oil pumps so my REAL savings is 335 dollars.

If I save 33 dollars a year on one aspect of my side project, imagine what
saving 33 dollars a year on several aspects can amount too. I use gasoline
tractors. If I save 33 dollars a year on gas (not letting them idle for
example while I survey), and save 33 dollars a year on tire repairs to my
trailers (but not hauling wood so fast over rocks) etc etc etc.

As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
hours a week.

As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time groundwater
makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have always assumed
mother nature has filtered it. The simple act of burning firewood cause far
more environmental damage than throwing oil on the ground.

You raised good points but when I count pennies and nickels on my firewood
sales just like I do in my cutting tools sales, used motor oil provides a
savings. So Yes it is worth it.

HeadHunter

biolube bar oil

I'd be pretty angry if some stranger (or county agency) decided to spray 10
or 20 gallons of petroleum all over my property. Why should I do it myself?
I switched to biolube two years ago. Any Stihl or Husky dealer can order it.
Yes, they complain about no one else wanting it. Yes, you end up looking
like some green, granola eating, tree-hugging logger (huh?). And yes, they
will special order it if you insist.

I know there is Old School and New School, and I'm probably
pre-Kindergarten. However, if I were purchasing a property, and I discovered
the previous owner had been spraying motor oil all over the place for 20
years, I'd seriously consider walking away. We have haywire environmental
laws out here in California, and the buyer can inherit a cleanup liability.
Bio oil is cheap insurance.

John
Pescadero, CA



It works for me.


Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?

Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a
33 to 40 cents a day difference.

I cut firewood for a decent second income. I figure my work season, not
including rainy days, when I just split or clean brush is 100 days a year.
I spend about 30 days actually delivering to bring it up to 130. If I use
my saws, (I use a smaller stihl bar and motor for smaller work) for those
100 days of work that 33 cents is 33 dollars for one year. I do believe I
have been doing firewood at the same pace for 20 years, BUT for accuracy
sake lets go down to 15 years. That 15 years = 495 dollars. I have spent
about 160 in repairs to the oil pumps so my REAL savings is 335 dollars.

If I save 33 dollars a year on one aspect of my side project, imagine what
saving 33 dollars a year on several aspects can amount too. I use
gasoline tractors. If I save 33 dollars a year on gas (not letting them
idle for example while I survey), and save 33 dollars a year on tire
repairs to my trailers (but not hauling wood so fast over rocks) etc etc
etc.

As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
hours a week.

As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time
groundwater makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have
always assumed mother nature has filtered it. The simple act of burning
firewood cause far more environmental damage than throwing oil on the
ground.

You raised good points but when I count pennies and nickels on my firewood
sales just like I do in my cutting tools sales, used motor oil provides a
savings. So Yes it is worth it.

HeadHunter

AL wrote:
Harry K wrote:

AL wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:


My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


Hmmm, *my* motorcycle doesn't have a self oiling chain??? SO! To keep it
lubricated and keep the o-rings supple it is necessary to use a lube
that doesn't throw off. The chainsaw however has a continuous flow of
oil to the chain. Using used motor oil instead of thicker bar oil just
means refilling the oil reserve more often.



snip

AL


So just what do you think happens to a chainsaw chain as it goes over
the tip of the bar? That's right, it tries to sling oil off just like
your motorcycle does going around the sprocket. Same reason you want
some tack additive in the oil. Used motor doesn't have it. Using your
logic, you should be using used motor oil for your motorcycle chain.

Harry K



Try actually reading before responding.

No, my argument is that, since the chainsaw is self oiling with a
constant flow of oil from the resevoir to replace what is thrown off or
dragged off by cutting the wood, it is not as important to have a sticky
oil as it is for a motorcycle chain that receives an occasional oiling
that must adhere to the chain for as long as possible thus making the
sticky oil necessary - whew...

As to whether used motor oil works for chainsaws, just go back up the
thread for proof.

AL

Okay, lets try this. Which do you think is -better- for a saw. Used
oil (or even new motor oil) that slings most of it off going over the
nose before it gets to the point of most wear or oil with a tack
additive that gets more oil where it is needed?

I don't understand the animosity in this thread at all. Noone says that
motor oil doesn't work. The motor oil proponents aren't going to
change, I am not going to change and I use a lot of chain/bar oil. The
opinions are just that - opinions. What the hell is all the screaming
about??

Harry K

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Harry K wrote:

George E. Cawthon wrote:

Harry K wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:


Tom Quackenbush wrote:


gfulton wrote:


Ashton Crusher wrote:

snip

Actually, that seems like a pretty good use for it. The claim that
'it doesn't do the bar any good" is probably true but OTOH it is very
unlikely to do it any harm either. After all, it was being used up
until it was drained to lubricate a far more complicated and delicate
mechanical system (your car) with no ill effects. To think that it
was good enough for your car up till then, but inadequate for the task
of lubing the chain and bar is silly. And it's an equally silly
suggestion that someone is doing the world a favor to recycle it
instead because that means you will be using BRAND NEW oil instead of
that used oil - clearly a net loss to the world of limited oil.


Thank you for injecting some sanity into this discussion.

Well sure, but "sanity" makes for a pretty short discussion, now,
doesn't it?

I'm also not sure what carcinogenic (sp ?) risk is involved in
handling used motor oil.


Probably no more than just being born. I know a guy who used old motor
oil for a number of things, from (he thought) preserving fence posts to
sun tan oil. He's been doing both for upwards of 40 years with no
apparent ill effects.

My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
to use motor oil.

Harry K


I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
only at the beginning but during operation as the
chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
probably need an engineer to figure out how to
lube the stick you slide across the floor.

Don't try to embue engineers with God like
knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
probably nothing but liability wording.

Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?


I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.

Harry K


I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.

So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
inconsistent wouldn't you say?

Harry K

On 22 Jun 2005 07:27:39 -0700, "dean" wrote:

Because every professional user I have ever seen is using 10W30 engine
oil. Now I'm not about to put that into my Stihls but I was just
wondering if I am wasting money on expensive bar oil?

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I've used all three
types of bar lube (used motor oil, new motor oil, and tackified bar
oil) and have cut a lot of wood over the last 30+ years. I never did
it professionally, but my Father in law did and I picked his brain
too.

My conclusions:

Used motor oil:
Pros:
Cheap, does the job
Cons:
Dirty, turns everything black it touches, never washes out.
Requires turning up the automatic oiler to a higher level, so
you often use a tank of oil quicker than a tank of gas, creating the
risk of running the bar dry.
Slings off the bar at the nose (which is why the previous) and
leaves the actual cutting part of the bar under-lubed.
Poorest job of lubing of the three.
*May* be carcinogenic.
Unless you get enough from oil changes in your own vehicles you
have to scrounge it.
And, the deal killer for me finally after hundreds of gallons of
the stuff, it usually contains enough contaminants that it will plug
up the pump, bar or passages at the worst moments.

New motor oil:
Pros:
Does the job, slightly cheaper than dedicated bar oil.
Cleaner than used oil.
Clean, doesn't plug anything up and the viscosity can be chosen
to work in cold weather.
Cons:
Slings off the bar so requires turning up the oiler and may
under-lube the cutting side of the bar or cause the tank to run dry
early.
Not significantly cheaper than dedicated bar oil.

Tackified Bar Oil:
Pros:
Does the best job of lubing the chain - Since I switched there
is noticeably less wear on the bars of my saws, even though I am in a
sandier and dustier area.
Doesn't sling off the bar, so it is still there where you need
it.
You use less, so it partially offsets the higher cost of new
motor oil.
Clean, but it does tend to leave "strings" all over the side of
the saw. Never seems to plug anything up.
Handy, no more messing with a 15 gallon drum of used oil.
Cons:
Price, slightly more expensive than new (cheap) motor oil, but
if bought on sale can be had for essentially the same price.
Sticky - coats your gloves, jeans, boots, truck, whatever you
spill it on. Doesn't want to come off.
Tends to get pretty stiff in cold weather.

Conclusion:
For me, after wearing out a number of saws and bars and chains
using old motor oil, I decided that paying for the "real stuff" was a
good investment. All of the loggers I currently know use it because it
lengthens bar and chain life by allowing them to run cooler and with
less wear. Cooler chains don't stretch as much and don't require as
much maintenance.
My experience since switching is that the tackified oil is well
worth the price. The only drawback I have found is that it gets so
thick in sub-zero (F) weather that you have to thin it to make it
pump. Usually under those conditions I just fall back on *new* motor
oil. I will never go back to the used stuff again.

Your mileage, as always, may vary.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Harry K wrote:

((snipped))
My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
to use motor oil.

Harry K


I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
only at the beginning but during operation as the
chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
probably need an engineer to figure out how to
lube the stick you slide across the floor.

Don't try to embue engineers with God like
knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
probably nothing but liability wording.

Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?


I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.

Harry K


I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.


So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
inconsistent wouldn't you say?

Harry K


Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
You that said something about engineers
designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
you were full of ****. You are on the engineer
kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
(note I didn't say men because about half of them
are women) who also don't think they are gods and
none of whom probably give a **** about chainsaws
or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
Cheers!

http://tinyurl.com/dkwsn

George E. Cawthon wrote:
...

Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
You that said something about engineers
designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
you were full of ****. ...

I've worked on development projects for mechanical equipment
and assure you that it is typical for the engineer(s) and/or
designer(s) to specify what lubricants should be used and
how to apply them.

I'd wager that when a chainsaw manufacturer comes out with
a new saw the recommendation for what oil to use on the bar
is made by virtue of NOT editing or redrawing that information
from whatever documents and drawings (of an older model) were
used as the starting point for the new model.

At some point between the invention of the chain saw and
the production of the say you bought someone put some
thought into chain lubrication. Unless and until that
recommendation changes, it is probably just there in the
documentation as a matter of inertia.

IOW, if you want to know what oil to use, RTFM.

--

FF

http://tinyurl.com/dkwsn

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Harry K wrote:

((snipped))
My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
to use motor oil.

Harry K


I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
only at the beginning but during operation as the
chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
probably need an engineer to figure out how to
lube the stick you slide across the floor.

Don't try to embue engineers with God like
knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
probably nothing but liability wording.

Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?


I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.

Harry K


I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.


So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
inconsistent wouldn't you say?

Harry K


Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
You that said something about engineers
designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
you were full of ****. You are on the engineer
kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
(note I didn't say men because about half of them
are women) who also don't think they are gods and
none of whom probably give a **** about chainsaws
or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
Cheers!

Rather straining there aren't you. I don't see that I said anything
about a "specific" oil. Only that a "specific type" of oil, (e.g.,
bar/chain oil) was specified. You then went into a rant about
engineers, not me.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:

George E. Cawthon wrote:

Harry K wrote:

((snipped))

My objection to used motor oil on chainsaw bars is simpler. It is too
thin, likely to get flung off, and provide almost no protection. That's
the same objection I'd have to running it on a motorcycle, or bicycle,
chain.


That is it in a nutshell. I figure if the engineers designing them say
to use oil formulated for the use, then use it. I am sure that they
know one hell of lot more about it than I do. I would have to dig out
my manual on my new saw to be sure but I think it specifically says not
to use motor oil.

Harry K


I'll add my two cents. Oh, B.S.! You are talking
about nothing except metal rubbing on metal, a
piece of metal riding in a groove, with two pieces
of metal (the chain) riding on two flat surfaces
(the bar). The tension is highly variable, not
only at the beginning but during operation as the
chain heats up. The chain metal is hardened, the
bar is fairly hard, but easily draw filed. If you
need an engineer to figure out the lube, then you
probably need an engineer to figure out how to
lube the stick you slide across the floor.

Don't try to embue engineers with God like
knowledge. The stuff about formulated oil is
probably nothing but liability wording.

Use oil with some stickum. Are all of you going
to go to such extensive B.S. in describing what
kind of grease to use on the bar tip wheel?


I presume you follow that advice. Your vehicles must love you for not
following the recommended type oil. After all you know more than the
engineers.

Harry K


I would guess that you know nothing about modern
(even old) engines and bearing tolerances.
Otherwise you wouldn't equate a modern engine
using the same oil for 5,000 miles with a chain on
a blade using replacement oil every few minutes.


So in one use you say engineers are full of it and you don't believe
their recommendations and then in another they are god? Rather
inconsistent wouldn't you say?

Harry K


Good point! Is that what I said? Oh yeah, it was
You that said something about engineers
designing saws to use a specific oil. And I said
you were full of ****. You are on the engineer
kick, not me. Probably no engineers involved in
the oil recommendation, and they certainly didn't
design a saw to use a specific oil (kind of bass
akwards, wouldn't it be?). Maybe a chemist
designed an oil that would work with the saw, but
more likely just somebody that has used a saw, an
accountant, and a lawyer--none of whom probably
know anything about oil formulas. BTW, I have
friends who are engineers, not gods, just people
(note I didn't say men because about half of them
are women) who also don't think they are gods and
none of whom probably give a **** about chainsaws
or the oil that the manufacture recommends for the
bars, but damn if they don't all have cars.
Cheers!


Rather straining there aren't you. I don't see that I said anything
about a "specific" oil. Only that a "specific type" of oil, (e.g.,
bar/chain oil) was specified. You then went into a rant about
engineers, not me.

Harry K

Like trying to talk to a 6 year (especially one
with no sense of humor). Merry Christmas and don't
take any wooden nickels form doctors.

I had hoped you just might see at least a modicum of levity arising in
the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.

We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can remember. I
don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell, his
opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for setting us
all on the path to righteousness!

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:

| I had hoped you just might see at least a modicum of levity arising in
| the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
|
| We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can remember. I
| don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell, his
| opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for setting us
| all on the path to righteousness!
|
|

I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
for sissies.

"Tom Miller" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:

| I had hoped you just might see at least a modicum of levity
arising in
| the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
|
| We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can
remember. I
| don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell,
his
| opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for
setting us
| all on the path to righteousness!
|
|

I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
for sissies.

Snort!

You mousse that thing, too?

HeadHunter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...
Used motor oil contains various carcinogens and slowly makes its way
down to groundwater. Why use it to save 25 cents a day?

Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a 33
to 40 cents a day difference.

...
As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and
tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used
threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50
hours a week.

I rather hope you send it to a recycler and don't dump it on the
ground.


As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring
well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time groundwater
makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have always assumed
mother nature has filtered it.

I don't think Mother Nature is very good at breaking down petroleum
oil. I suspect breakdown relies heaviely on oxidation and exposure
UV,both of which will be minimized underground.

Organics can travel long distances through the water table. E.g.
mother nature is very poor at filtering them. So if
someone uphill where the water enters your artesian system dumps
oil on the ground you likely have traces of it in your well,
depending on how long it takes to get to you from there.

No need to trust me, or to assume, these are things you can check
out for yourself.

The simple act of burning firewood cause far
more environmental damage than throwing oil on the ground.

Uh, that rather heavily depends on the quantity of each, but
I suspect you are right on the mark as regars how much oil
gets into the environment from normal chain saw use to make
firewood vs how muchharm is done by burning the wood.

But that is an argument from irrelevency, the amoutn of firewood
you cut probably remains independent of your choice of
bar oil.

I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
course) that these were better lubricants than their
petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.

A good respirator helped more though.

--

FF

I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
course) that these were better lubricants than their
petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.

A good respirator helped more though.

Yikes - I'm already wearing a helmet, face shield, glasses and earmuffs -
how'd he fit in a respirator? I don't think mine would fit under the face
sheild.

Maybe I should get this?

http://store1.yimg.com/I/apsonline_1...45_1265324.jpg

Tim and Steph wrote:
I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an
Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils
in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of
course) that these were better lubricants than their
petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because
the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and
the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.

A good respirator helped more though.

Yikes - I'm already wearing a helmet, face shield, glasses and earmuffs -
how'd he fit in a respirator? I don't think mine would fit under the face
sheild.

Maybe I should get this?

http://store1.yimg.com/I/apsonline_1...45_1265324.jpg


It has been a number of years and my memory is nto as good as it used
to
be, or at least not as good as I remember it was. ;-)

Howver ISTR he used safety glasses instead of a face shield. My
MSA respirator fits OK under my face shield.

BTW, it needs new elastic, any ideas where to get replacement?

--

FF

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:

|
| "Tom Miller" wrote in message
| ...
| On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:06:48 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:
|
| | I had hoped you just might see at least a modicum of levity
| arising in
| | the continuing descent into absurdium...alas, if not. I tried.
| |
| | We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can
| remember. I
| | don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell,
| his
| | opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for
| setting us
| | all on the path to righteousness!
| |
| |
|
| I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always
| stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind.
| Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to
| take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's
| for sissies.
|
| Snort!
|
| You mousse that thing, too?
|

No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|

Tom Miller wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:

|
| You mousse that thing, too?
|


No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|


Wood chipper works well for elk sausage. ;-)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:56:45 -0700, G Henslee
wrote:

| Tom Miller wrote:
| On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:25:13 GMT, "Tim and Steph" wrote:
|
| |
| | You mousse that thing, too?
| |
|
|
| No, but I did hack up an elk once. Yuck.|
|
|
| Wood chipper works well for elk sausage. ;-)

Elkburgers! The worst piece of meat I've ever eaten.

On 3 Jul 2005 09:02:01 -0700, wrote:

Howver ISTR he used safety glasses instead of a face shield. My
MSA respirator fits OK under my face shield.

BTW, it needs new elastic, any ideas where to get replacement?

If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.

Otherwise you can probably get something suitable at a fabric store.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message

If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.

Probably be more of a consideration where they came from than how the look.

Upscale wrote:
"Tim Douglass" wrote in message

If you don't mind how it looks, I've used elastic off of an old pair
of underwear to replace the elastic on a pair of safety goggles.

Probably be more of a consideration where they came from than how the look.


Especially if I leave it attached....

--

FF