"H Huntzinger" wrote in
message
...

Rule #1 of USENET:


Whenever you post anything, you're soliciting everyone in the world for
their opinion of what you wrote.

Corollary #1a of USENET: You had just better hope that everyone in the
world doesn't answer.

"Vanessa" wrote:
(I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's 25% stolen goods according
to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police
dept).

And 53% of all statistics are made up according to my dogcatcher's cousin who
once thought about signing up for a statistics course.

H Huntzinger wrote:
zog wrote:


Rod Speed wrote:

No thanks.



whatever, I wasn't asking for your opinion, Rod




Rule #1 of USENET:

No, rule #1 is to pay attention to what newsgroups you are posting to
when you reply, and don't let trolls goad you into starting flame wars
across groups.. This doesn't belong in alt.horology, followups set.

In searching how to adjust your Costco Wenger Swiss Military watch
band, I found these references which may help you out.

http://www.dreamretail.com/RemovingLinks.html
and
http://www.schlatter.org/watchband.htm

"Remember you have to remove at least 2 pins to remove a link. For more
than 1 link, you have to remove evenly from both ends of the bracelet
or the buckle will end up in the wrong place - you want the buckle to
end up on the flat of your wrist. This is NOT 1/2 way because of
anatomy - the top 1/2 needs to be considerably shorter than the bottom.
So that is at least 4 pins that need
to come out and then 2 to be driven back in."

These work for other watches, but I didn't find any references to the
tool that is actually needed for your watch.

SoCalMike wrote:
The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" (which is
more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo).

I asked what he based that fee upon and he said it would take 20
minutes and he gets $120 an hour to fix watches so his estimate was $40
dollars to adjust the steel band.

Where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch?

I recently took my watch to a local jewelry store who quoted $8 dollars
to adjust the steel band but who actually charged me $16 dollars
because it was 8 dollars PER SIDE! When I asked why, he said he had to
take a link out of each side so he charged double the quote!

If I knew that it would cost me that much (half the price of the watch)
I would have purchased a kit to do it myself. Does anyone have a good
reference for a watch kit that will also open up the back of the watch
(it has a six dents equally spaced in the back of the watch for
whatever tool goes there).

BTW, the actual links are really a half-round pin, folded over, flat
sides touching, so that it looks like a slotted flathead screwdriver on
the side it comes out and it looks like a round head on the side you
punch but it's really just a half-round doubled over length of metal
pin acting like a spring because it's bent over in half.

Now that the band is fixed, I've learned my do-it-yourself lesson the
hard way.

But, where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch?

On 18 Jul 2005 00:01:33 -0700, wrote:

BTW, the actual links are really a half-round pin, folded over, flat
sides touching, so that it looks like a slotted flathead screwdriver on
the side it comes out and it looks like a round head on the side you
punch but it's really just a half-round doubled over length of metal
pin acting like a spring because it's bent over in half.

Now that the band is fixed, I've learned my do-it-yourself lesson the
hard way.

That 8 bucks a side is a rip off. Those pushpins are generally easy as
pie to knock out and back in. 10 bucks(Aussie) would have been a fair
price. And you'd be paying for my time(all 3 minutes of it) and my
knowledge(we'll assume i'm good at what i do).

But, where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch?

Here is one that should do the job. It's cheap enough to try.
http://www.slarose.com/cgi-bin/slarose/063263

And here are some others. If your budget and interest is big enough,
then get the on the top of the page. "Jaxa Swiss" is the pro's choice.
http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html

Have fun.

--

Regards, Frank

Well, we finally adjusted the Wenger Swiss Military watch band!

After googling & froogling for "watch band link remover adjustment", we
realized for ten to twenty bucks we could buy the needed metal watch
band link adjustment tool.

I also stopped off at another jeweler who said he'd adjust the watch
band for fifteen bucks which was more than some of the tools so I
respectfully declined.

We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a
link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back two of
them. Leftovers were two links and two cotter pins as shown in the
photos I just hosted here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8283/watcha5pr.jpg
and here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6603/watchb3dk.jpg

Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as
mentioned by someone in this thread previously.

If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a
micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The
hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage
floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool -
he eventually used what is shown in the photos.

VCS

On 18 Jul 2005 02:20:12 -0700, "Vanessa" wrote:

snip
We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a
link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back two of
them. Leftovers were two links and two cotter pins as shown in the
photos I just hosted here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8283/watcha5pr.jpg
and here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6603/watchb3dk.jpg

Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as
mentioned by someone in this thread previously.

Yep, they are quite common and are easy to remove as long as you do
have a small and hard enough pin. When i say pin, it should be a flat
top punch. Pins will just damage the band's pin and it may never come
out.

Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need:
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html
As you say for 15 or so bucks there are a few there, which will tackle
your band quite nicely.

If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a
micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The
hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage
floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool -
he eventually used what is shown in the photos.

An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-)

--

Regards, Frank

Frank Adam wrote:
On 18 Jul 2005 02:20:12 -0700, "Vanessa" wrote:

snip
We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a
link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back two of
them. Leftovers were two links and two cotter pins as shown in the
photos I just hosted here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8283/watcha5pr.jpg
and here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6603/watchb3dk.jpg

Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as
mentioned by someone in this thread previously.

Yep, they are quite common and are easy to remove as long as you do
have a small and hard enough pin. When i say pin, it should be a flat
top punch. Pins will just damage the band's pin and it may never come
out.

Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need:
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html
As you say for 15 or so bucks there are a few there, which will tackle
your band quite nicely.

If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a
micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The
hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage
floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool
- he eventually used what is shown in the photos.

An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-)

And even if you have to buy one to grind flat, they cost peanuts.

Rod Speed wrote:
Frank Adam wrote:
On 18 Jul 2005 02:20:12 -0700, "Vanessa" wrote:

snip
We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing
a link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back
two of them. Leftovers were two links and two cotter pins as shown
in the photos I just hosted here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8283/watcha5pr.jpg
and here
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6603/watchb3dk.jpg

Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as
mentioned by someone in this thread previously.

Yep, they are quite common and are easy to remove as long as you do
have a small and hard enough pin. When i say pin, it should be a flat
top punch. Pins will just damage the band's pin and it may never come
out.

Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need:
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html
As you say for 15 or so bucks there are a few there, which will
tackle your band quite nicely.

If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a
micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The
hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage
floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool
- he eventually used what is shown in the photos.

An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-)

And even if you have to buy one to grind flat, they cost peanuts.

Pity its not true of the screw back removers.

Frank Adam wrote:
Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need:
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html

Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover?

Fifteen years ago I bought a second-hand steel/gold Rolex Oyster
Perpetual (pre sapphire crystal) date adjust watch (just the numers,
not the day of the week) for about $1800 if I remember correctly.

From a frugality standpoint, I was sick and tired of battery
replacement, watch band deterioration, and winding battery-less
watches; so, from that standpoint, it was a bargain in that this watch
is self winding, the gold/steel band is practically indestructable,
and, of course, no batteries!

However, the first "adjustment" cost $300; the first major overhaul
cost $800, and now it's broken again (my kids dropped it on the cement
and it stopped working instantly). So, from a frugality & reliablity
standpoint, this watch has been a bust (it's just sitting in my "things
to fix" drawer).

I'm done taking it to a watchsmith (see why above).
Now I just want to see if I can visually see what is broken inside.
Maybe it's something simple that I can get fixed for less than $800.

Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate,
Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster
Perpetual?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate,
Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster
Perpetual?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U35D3137B

Opens 'em right up.

Scott wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate,
Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster
Perpetual?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U35D3137B

Opens 'em right up.

And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you
$100 for the watch.
--
Noah

"Noah Little" wrote in message
...

And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you
$100 for the watch.


Honest Noah ?!?

On 18 Jul 2005 13:34:49 -0700, wrote:

Frank Adam wrote:
Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need:
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html

Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover?

If you are already buying the Jaxa case opener, it comes with bits
'D', which have surrated jaws. As long as you can clamp the watch down
somehow and push down real hard on the back as you turn it, that will
open most Rolex cases. Problem is, if the back is very tight, it *can*
slip and damage the back.
Some of the other cheaper Jaxa-like sets may be ok too for a one off
job, but it's a trial and error.

The proper opener should be a round ring which fits the back
perfectly. On this page you can find some Rolex case tools.

http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html

As you'll see they are not exactly cheap. One could almost buy a
quarter of a Rolex for the best priced one. ;-)

However, the first "adjustment" cost $300; the first major overhaul
cost $800, and now it's broken again (my kids dropped it on the cement
and it stopped working instantly). So, from a frugality & reliablity
standpoint, this watch has been a bust (it's just sitting in my "things
to fix" drawer).

Thank Rolex for driving up their own prices and making it unprofitable
to most watchmakers to even contemplate touching their watches.
Mind you, dropped watches are not really an indication of a quality
problem. Rest assured you have a fine watch there.
What should be remembered is that most customers will only have their
watches serviced when they stop. This could be as much as 10-15 years
intervals and frankly in that time you've spent how much on servicing
your car, which sits in the parking lot 70% of it's life ?
Every 5 years, folks. Oils *are* oils.

ps: Hope this x-post is not ticking people off at rec.scuba, m.c.f and
a.h.r. If so, points finger he started it, go get him ! ;-)

--

Regards, Frank

Frank Adam wrote:
Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover?
The proper opener should be a round ring which fits the back
http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html
....
Mind you, dropped watches are not really an indication of a quality
problem. Rest assured you have a fine watch there.

Yes. That Rolex is absolutely BEAUTIFUL INSIDE (from a metalworking
standpoint)!

When I first bought this used Rolex, it didn't keep good time (losing
perhaps a minute a day). I opened the back simply by using a small
flathead screwdriver in the notches, twisting out the normal way. I was
AMAZED at how BEAUTIFUL it was inside! Honed out of a single block of
stainless steel & gold, it seemed. There was a fine gold coiled spring,
with a big counterweight, and what looked like a solid silver
backplate, and a red stone in the middle of the spring and a very easy
to adjust adjustment lever with a few alignment marks on that spring.
The entire inside was an absolutely beautiful sight. I adjusted it for
a few weeks until I got it down to a loss of about 20 seconds a day but
I never did get the timing exact. (Maybe there are other not-so-obvious
adjustments?)

I closed it up each day as tightly as that screwdriver would allow me
to.

Then one summer, I went swimming in a volcano in Greece (Thira) and the
sulphur got inside somehow and gummed it all up. That's when I had the
$800 repair. I haven't opened it since then because I'm told it's been
sealed with Argon gas. Is that true?

My point is, the case can be opened with a screwdriver but I prefer to
use the correct tool (so I'll check out the wonderful link you provided
above); but I'm asking an ancilliary question of alt.horology ... which
is...

Once opened ...
Q: Does the Rolex need to be sealed in a special gas environment?

P.S. Removed scuba as this no longer applies to scuba diving ...

wrote:



When I first bought this used Rolex, it didn't keep good time (losing
perhaps a minute a day). I opened the back simply by using a small
flathead screwdriver in the notches, twisting out the normal way.

You're not going to open a properly pressure sealed watch with a
screwdriver unless you have super human powers. Is your real name Clark
Kent?

I was
AMAZED at how BEAUTIFUL it was inside!

Really? Beautiful? Rolex finish is workman like but nothing more.
Looks like crap compared to this.

http://www.tp178.com/mh/union_panorama/index.html


Honed out of a single block of
stainless steel & gold, it seemed.

Where was the gold? Looks like rhodium plated brass to me.

There was a fine gold coiled spring,
with a big counterweight, and what looked like a solid silver
backplate, and a red stone in the middle of the spring and a very easy
to adjust adjustment lever

Sounds like a fake Rolex. There's no regulator lever on a datejust
movement! You got taken 3 times over!

Or

YOU'RE A TROLL1111111

Richard "TROLL! TROLL! RUN AWAY! TROLL! TROLL!!!" F

Noah Little wrote:


And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you
$100 for the watch.

you are being generous

would not give him $5 after he has finished with it.

"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message
u...
Noah Little wrote:


And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you
$100 for the watch.

you are being generous

would not give him $5 after he has finished with it.

How much is the scrap value?

Scott wrote:
"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message
u...

Noah Little wrote:


And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you
$100 for the watch.

you are being generous

would not give him $5 after he has finished with it.


How much is the scrap value?



for the raw materials not much unless there is some gold in the case or
movement, for undamaged secondhand parts you would make a bit back, but
you would have to cover stripping out the parts, id them, pack and post,
sell them on ebay

"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message
...

for the raw materials not much unless there is some gold in the case or
movement, for undamaged secondhand parts you would make a bit back, but
you would have to cover stripping out the parts, id them, pack and post,
sell them on ebay

In other words, less than the 10k price for new.

But, we who dont need a 10k watch already knew.

Scott wrote:
"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message

In other words, less than the 10k price for new.

But, we who dont need a 10k watch already knew.



the cost of materials is nothing, why it annoyed me during the 70s when
gold went through the roof that people were scraping gold pocket watches
for the sake of a few grams of gold, many fine and compicated watches
were lost during that time.

"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message
u...
Scott wrote:
"dAz" dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau wrote in message

In other words, less than the 10k price for new.

But, we who dont need a 10k watch already knew.



the cost of materials is nothing, why it annoyed me during the 70s when
gold went through the roof that people were scraping gold pocket watches
for the sake of a few grams of gold, many fine and compicated watches
were lost during that time.

I am a machninst by trade, and fully appreciate the craftsmanship that goes
into a Rolex.

At the same time I realize that Rolex trades in a name and a brand that rich
people think put feathers in their hat.

It is a very inportant issue to have the image a Rolex on your wrist
(Chinese rip off or otherwise) to many people, becuase they feel they have
rub their wealt up against others with wealth.

It can be the biggest chunk of **** ever made, but what sells it is the
perception of exclusivity.

After all, only the elite and wealthy can afford and appreciate a ten
thousand dollar watch, that is an overpriced chunk of ****.

On 18 Jul 2005 16:31:49 -0700, wrote:

Frank Adam wrote:
Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover?
The proper opener should be a round ring which fits the back
http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html
...
Mind you, dropped watches are not really an indication of a quality
problem. Rest assured you have a fine watch there.

Yes. That Rolex is absolutely BEAUTIFUL INSIDE (from a metalworking
standpoint)!

When I first bought this used Rolex, it didn't keep good time (losing
perhaps a minute a day). I opened the back simply by using a small
flathead screwdriver in the notches, twisting out the normal way. I was
AMAZED at how BEAUTIFUL it was inside! Honed out of a single block of
stainless steel & gold, it seemed. There was a fine gold coiled spring,
with a big counterweight, and what looked like a solid silver
backplate, and a red stone in the middle of the spring and a very easy
to adjust adjustment lever with a few alignment marks on that spring.
The entire inside was an absolutely beautiful sight. I adjusted it for
a few weeks until I got it down to a loss of about 20 seconds a day but
I never did get the timing exact. (Maybe there are other not-so-obvious
adjustments?)

I closed it up each day as tightly as that screwdriver would allow me
to.

Then one summer, I went swimming in a volcano in Greece (Thira) and the
sulphur got inside somehow and gummed it all up. That's when I had the
$800 repair. I haven't opened it since then because I'm told it's been
sealed with Argon gas. Is that true?

My point is, the case can be opened with a screwdriver but I prefer to
use the correct tool (so I'll check out the wonderful link you provided
above); but I'm asking an ancilliary question of alt.horology ... which
is...

Once opened ...
Q: Does the Rolex need to be sealed in a special gas environment?

P.S. Removed scuba as this no longer applies to scuba diving ...
I took my Grandad's pocket watch in for repair and the watchmaker was
unable to open it so I brought it home. That evening, I ran a bead of
silicone caulking around, inside the rim of a 2" pulley. Next morning
I used this "gripper" to unscrew the cover, after which I went back
and showed the watchmaker how I had done it and explained that I had
probably succeeded because it was my watch and I didn't have to worry
about explaining to a customer how I had messed up his antique watch.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On 18 Jul 2005 16:31:49 -0700, wrote:

When I first bought this used Rolex, it didn't keep good time (losing
perhaps a minute a day). I opened the back simply by using a small
flathead screwdriver in the notches, twisting out the normal way. I was

Um, i'd be extremely surprised if you could open a properly tightened
Rolex Oyster with a "small" screwdriver. You could probably chisel it
open but the damage to the case back would be severe.

Then one summer, I went swimming in a volcano in Greece (Thira) and the
sulphur got inside somehow and gummed it all up. That's when I had the
$800 repair. I haven't opened it since then because I'm told it's been
sealed with Argon gas. Is that true?

No.

My point is, the case can be opened with a screwdriver but I prefer to
use the correct tool (so I'll check out the wonderful link you provided
above); but I'm asking an ancilliary question of alt.horology ... which
is...

Once opened ...
Q: Does the Rolex need to be sealed in a special gas environment?

No, except for air for the person present. ;-)

--

Regards, Frank

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:12:38 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

I took my Grandad's pocket watch in for repair and the watchmaker was
unable to open it so I brought it home. That evening, I ran a bead of
silicone caulking around, inside the rim of a 2" pulley. Next morning
I used this "gripper" to unscrew the cover, after which I went back
and showed the watchmaker how I had done it and explained that I had
probably succeeded because it was my watch and I didn't have to worry
about explaining to a customer how I had messed up his antique watch.
Gerry :-)}

Yep, there are shallow cups of varius sizes available for that
purpose, made from rubber. You simply used your brain, i'll withhold
any kudos for that watchmaker though.

ps: My old boss used to open them getting the grip with fine emery
paper. By the time i've become an apprentice he caught on, that one
can use any soft sheet of thin rubber and a suitable die from a glass
press(for the uninitiated, this looks like one half of a pulley).

--

Regards, Frank

Frank Adam wrote:
I'm told it's been sealed with Argon gas. Is that true?
No.
....
Q: Does the Rolex need to be sealed in a special gas environment?
No, except for air for the person present. ;-)
....
I opened the back simply by using a small flathead screwdriver
Um, i'd be extremely surprised if you could open a properly tightened
Rolex Oyster with a "small" screwdriver. You could probably chisel it
open but the damage to the case back would be severe.

Hi Frank,

I looked up your posts and you're a legit guy so I respect your advice.

I'm glad you've said the Rolex isn't filled with an inert gas as I
always wondered about that particular detail.

The funny thing is, and this is wierd, I pulled the watch out of the
drawer this morning because I wanted to find the serial number and then
I shook it feverishly to wind it up and then banged it a few times
against the bedpost (pretty hard, with about the force we throw a
baseball into a mitt) and lo and behold ... that old Rolex started
ticking again!

Sweet! That barely audible fast-paced tickit tickit tickit tickit sound
I haven't heard in years! Within a minute, it stopped once and I banged
it again. That sweetly revived Rolex has been ticking for about 6 hours
now without stopping (I'm wearing it on my wrist right now, to keep it
wound).

The only problem is my wrist must've grown in the intervening years as
the band is a bit too tight nowadays. I remember having links removed
years ago so I will try to dig them up as I'm pretty sure the jeweler
gave them back to me (they are partially gold, after all). I hope I
saved them in the original box which, since I moved a few times, is
buried somewhere in my old stuff in the basement.

Thanks for your advice.
I moved the main questions about the serial number over to a separate
thread as this really has nothing to do with adjusting the band on a
Swiss watch (although the gold-plated silver face does say "T Swiss
Made T", whatever those "t's" mean.

RD

Hi Moka Java,

I looked you up and you appear to be legitimate based on your posts so
I will take the time to courteously answer your questions and
observations.

Honed out of a single block of stainless steel & gold, it seemed.
Where was the gold? Looks like rhodium plated brass to me.

I don't know about that gold. I am quoting from my memory from many
years ago, probably more than a decade, give or take a few years. I
just remember it being very solid looking and very well machined out of
a single block as far as I could tell.

There was a fine gold coiled spring ... and a red stone in the middle
of the spring and a very easy to adjust adjustment lever
Sounds like a fake Rolex. There's no regulator lever on a datejust
movement! You got taken 3 times over!

Huh? I'm pretty sure it's not fake as it was sold by a jeweler
(although not an "official Rolex jeweler") but a jeweler nonetheless
who'd be out of business the first fake Rolex he got caught selling.
Plus it was in for repairs twice and you'd think _those_ official Rolex
jewelers would have mentioned something. And, there's that pawn shop in
Texas (admittedly not a reliable source based on the price he quoted of
about $500 which can only be for a stolen Rolex - certainly not for a
fake, I would think).

Again, I'm quoting all of this from memory, but, interestingly, the
Rolex spring adjust didn't seem very much different than that which you
pointed us to at http://www.tp178.com/mh/union_panorama/index.html

Specifically, the lever looked very much like the adjustment in the
photo
http://www.tp178.com/mh/union_panora..._geh01_txt.jpg

Are you saying this kind of lever is NOT in a Rolex Oyster Perpetual
Datejust of probably '70s vintage (I have a separate thread on the year
of manufacture).

RD

Scott wrote:
It can be the biggest chunk of **** ever made, but what sells it is the
perception of exclusivity.

After all, only the elite and wealthy can afford and appreciate a ten
thousand dollar watch, that is an overpriced chunk of ****.

Hi Scott,

I see you normally hang out on rec.scuba so you probably wouldn't think
of wearing a Rolex watch because you need other features in a diving
watch, which I can agree with. But, I do think your concerns deserve
addressing.

First off, this water resistant Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust
chronometer was no where near ten thousand dollars in cost. That may be
the case (even more actually) for a gold Rolex; but this DateJust is
stainless steel and gold and it only cost me about $1800, used (more
than a decade ago). Since it's working again, polished up, I could
probably get that much for it (based in input I see today) on the open
market, so, at least it held its value (albeit not above inflation) in
the intervening years.

Why would anyone buy a two thousand dollar watch is still a valid
question.

Did you ever buy something just because it was well made?
Did you ever buy something to last forever (your lifetime as the
measure)?
Did you ever buy something because you thought it would be maintenance
free?

If not, you'll never understand why anyone could pay thousands of
dollars for a watch when a ten dollar Casio tells time better. For that
matter, why buy a forty thousand dollar Bimmer or a seventeen thousand
dollar Beemer when a twenty thousand dollar Chevy gets you from point a
to point b just as fast.

Now, in my case, the "illusion" of maintenance free was a farce (as it
cost me over $1100 in repairs alone already) - but the other two
concerns (well made and it should last forever, with maintenance) still
seem valid to me at this time.

This is a well made watch. Probably just as well made as that $2500
rubber-banded analog Tag Heuer 2000 Aquagraph or Bell & Ross Hydromax
you wear yourself when diving today.

RD

wrote in message
oups.com...

"whatever those "t's" mean."

Those Ts simply refer to the luminous substance used in the watch to make
the hands and dots "glow in the dark". I believe the Ts stand for Tritium,
the amount of Tritium used is above a certain industry established limit for
this slightly radioactive substance. Sort of like a "warning label". Ts
are used on other watch, also.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Hi Scott,

I see you normally hang out on rec.scuba so you probably wouldn't think
of wearing a Rolex watch because you need other features in a diving
watch, which I can agree with. But, I do think your concerns deserve
addressing.

First off, this water resistant Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust
chronometer was no where near ten thousand dollars in cost. That may be
the case (even more actually) for a gold Rolex; but this DateJust is
stainless steel and gold and it only cost me about $1800, used (more
than a decade ago). Since it's working again, polished up, I could
probably get that much for it (based in input I see today) on the open
market, so, at least it held its value (albeit not above inflation) in
the intervening years.

Why would anyone buy a two thousand dollar watch is still a valid
question.

Did you ever buy something just because it was well made?
Did you ever buy something to last forever (your lifetime as the
measure)?
Did you ever buy something because you thought it would be maintenance
free?

If not, you'll never understand why anyone could pay thousands of
dollars for a watch when a ten dollar Casio tells time better. For that
matter, why buy a forty thousand dollar Bimmer or a seventeen thousand
dollar Beemer when a twenty thousand dollar Chevy gets you from point a
to point b just as fast.

How about a used Mazda truck that cost $1,000, and gets 28 MPG?

Now, in my case, the "illusion" of maintenance free was a farce (as it
cost me over $1100 in repairs alone already) - but the other two
concerns (well made and it should last forever, with maintenance) still
seem valid to me at this time.

Which is the hook.

This is a well made watch. Probably just as well made as that $2500
rubber-banded analog Tag Heuer 2000 Aquagraph or Bell & Ross Hydromax
you wear yourself when diving today.

I have a Rolex. A gold Oyster Perpetual.

It was given to me by the gent who owned the 61' Swan I crewed.

(If you want to know what hell is, just change the starter on the Volvo
Penta diesel that the Swan was built around. I swear they must have
suspended that engine magnetically and built the boat around it.)

It doesn't work. It's a piece of junk. But its purty.

I have an UWATEC bottom timer for diving.

I am a machinist by trade, so I don't wear watches or any other jewelry;
potentially bad for the limbs.

Honest John wrote
wrote

whatever those "t's" mean.

Those Ts simply refer to the luminous substance used in the watch to
make the hands and dots "glow in the dark". I believe the Ts stand
for Tritium, the amount of Tritium used is above a certain industry
established limit for this slightly radioactive substance.

Tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, the one after deuterium.

Unlikely that thats in a watch to make the hands glow.

Sort of like a "warning label". Ts are used on other watch, also.

Michael Wolf wrote:
How can you still consider it well made when you already had to spent
1100$ on repairs?

This is a good point. I'm not so sure anymore about Rolex.
Certainly I'd never buy another one nor recommend it.
But, I'm already sunk in the Rolex mud, so to speak.

Amortized, it's been about $100 a year for maintenance for this Rolex
watch.
Of course, that might not be a representative number (I have no idea).
I wonder what other people pay in "typical" Rolex maintenance.

Certainly I had gone in on the watch with the assumption of it lasting
forever with little to no maintenance; and just as certainly, I've had
over $100 a year in unexpected maintenance & repair costs ... yet I
wonder what OTHER people experience.

Maybe my experience is atypical. I don't know.

At the moment, my main problem is assessing whether its worth fixing.
One thing I may do is buy the tools to open it up and to remove the
band.
Once I open it up the right way (I don't want to hack it again), I
might see what's broken inside.

BTW, after shaking it violently yesterday, it worked for about 12 hours
then stopped again. I suspect an attachment point broke but I won't
know until I open it up again. Sure I can stop at a jeweler to ask him
to open it but I don't mind buying the tools if I can get them at a
reasonable price.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

"Unlikely that thats in a watch to make the hands glow"

Then what substance is in "Tritium tubes" that make several makes of watches
hands glow ????

Honest John wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Honest John wrote
wrote

whatever those "t's" mean.

Those Ts simply refer to the luminous substance used in the watch to
make the hands and dots "glow in the dark". I believe the Ts stand
for Tritium, the amount of Tritium used is above a certain industry
established limit for this slightly radioactive substance.

Tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, the one after deuterium.

Unlikely that thats in a watch to make the hands glow.

Then what substance is in "Tritium tubes" that make
several makes of watches hands glow ????

Those are actually glass vials, and it isnt
really that practical to do the 'dots' that way.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:23:27 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Honest John wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Honest John wrote
wrote

whatever those "t's" mean.

Those Ts simply refer to the luminous substance used in the watch to
make the hands and dots "glow in the dark". I believe the Ts stand
for Tritium, the amount of Tritium used is above a certain industry
established limit for this slightly radioactive substance.

Tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, the one after deuterium.
Unlikely that thats in a watch to make the hands glow.
Then what substance is in "Tritium tubes" that make
several makes of watches hands glow ????
Those are actually glass vials, and it isnt
really that practical to do the 'dots' that way.

sigh
Now don't you think that arguing with a regular alt.horology user
about these things is just plain silly ?

"Besides radium, there are several other methods of making "glow in
the dark" watch dials. There are various non-radioactive phosphor
compounds that will glow in the dark after being exposed to light.
Some modern compounds can glow for 10 to 15 hours after a relatively
short exposures to bright light. Tritium, like radium, is radioactive,
but it is much safer. Tritium, a form of hydrogen, has a reasonably
short 12 year half life so it doesn't have the long term dangers that
radium has, and it decays into harmless helium. The beta particles
that tritium gives off can not even penetrate the outer layer of dead
skin on your body, let alone the watch crystal and watch case."

source: http://elginwatches.org/help/luminous_dials.html

And yes, the 'T' means Tritium on watch dials.

--

Regards, Frank

Speaking or wrist watches, what do others consider to be
features of the "perfect" watch? Here's my personal criteria:

Light weight- I don't prefer a heavy watch
Rugged case and band- I wear mine 24/7
Metallic Link band- easy on and off, no water problems like
leather
Sapphire crystal for scratch resistance
Analog- I'm old and I have to think too much to use digital time
Day, Date- (see above- grin)
Quartz crystal accuracy- even a cheap quartz watch is more
accurate than most mechanical
Self energizing- no batteries to fool with
Water resistant to at least 100'- if it's lower than that
and I'm attached, it doesn't matter. This covers the pool,
spa and shower, for me.
Visible all night long without pressing any button

What this all boils down to is my Seiko Kinetic Titanium
watch with the Illuminator face. Being Titanium, the watch
and band are rugged, light and easy to take off or put on.
The analog watch is driven by a Quartz movement for
accuracy, and the charge is maintained by an actual
generator in the watch- like a perpetual mechanical watch.
The entire face is lighted all night, with the hands visible
by the backlighting. The watch was $450 in the late 90's
and is now about $300 in St. Maarten or St. Thomas.

The drawback to this is that it's not a showy watch, but at
least the Titanium case and band have some gold plated areas
that look great. I got mine about 1997 or so, as I recall,
and it has been working great ever since.

Nobody

Frank Adam wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Honest John wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Honest John wrote
wrote

whatever those "t's" mean.

Those Ts simply refer to the luminous substance used in the watch
to make the hands and dots "glow in the dark". I believe the Ts
stand for Tritium, the amount of Tritium used is above a certain
industry established limit for this slightly radioactive substance.

Tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, the one after
deuterium. Unlikely that thats in a watch to make the hands glow.

Then what substance is in "Tritium tubes" that make
several makes of watches hands glow ????

Those are actually glass vials, and it isnt
really that practical to do the 'dots' that way.

sigh

Heavy breathing has been banned in here.

Now don't you think that arguing with a regular alt.horology
user about these things is just plain silly ?

Might be if I had actually bothered to look that individual up.

Then again, I often do point out the stupiditys in the posts of even
the stupidest, mainly so other readers wont buy the bull****.

"Besides radium, there are several other methods of making "glow
in the dark" watch dials. There are various non-radioactive phosphor
compounds that will glow in the dark after being exposed to light.
Some modern compounds can glow for 10 to 15 hours after a relatively
short exposures to bright light. Tritium, like radium, is radioactive,
but it is much safer. Tritium, a form of hydrogen, has a reasonably
short 12 year half life so it doesn't have the long term dangers that
radium has, and it decays into harmless helium. The beta particles
that tritium gives off can not even penetrate the outer layer of dead
skin on your body, let alone the watch crystal and watch case."

source: http://elginwatches.org/help/luminous_dials.html

And yes, the 'T' means Tritium on watch dials.

How about a cite on the chemistry of that.

"Frank Adam" wrote in message
...

"Now don't you think that arguing with a regular alt.horology user about
these things is just plain silly ?"

Thanks, Frank ! You "saved-the day" again !

"Rod Speed" wrote in message

"Then again, I often do point out the stupiditys in the posts"

Look in the mirror and point to yourself!