I recently moved into a second story condo and have encountered what
might be a serious problem. When I was looking at the condo, I
noticed a gradual dip in the middle of the carpeted living room
(approximately 10' X 10' and perhaps 1 inch deep at the center). We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were told that the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling, though the condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could easily be fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and reinforcing the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the carpet to take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't plywood, it's concrete!
What the ?!?

Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past 6 years or so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what would be the best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor? I only plan on
living here for another 3-5 years and don't want to spend too much in
improvements. At the same time, I'd hate for my floor to collapse
onto my neighbors downstairs. Any advice? Thank you in advance.

"fh101" wrote in message
..
We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were told that the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling, though the condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could easily be fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and reinforcing the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the carpet to take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't plywood, it's concrete!
What the ?!?

So much for the quality of the builing inspector. Try to get your money
back as he is a fraud.


Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past 6 years or so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what would be the best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor?


There are concrete compounds that are for floor leveling. You'd have to
remove the carpet and spread the cement and finish it off. You may want to
talk to a pro for a job like that.

It may be best to determine if the floor has sagged over the years or if it
was not properly finished when the place was built. The fact that there is
a dip does not mean it is a structural problem. Any cracks? It could well
go back to the original builder.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"fh101" wrote in message
.

We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were told that the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling, though the condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could easily be fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and reinforcing the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the carpet to take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't plywood, it's concrete!
What the ?!?


So much for the quality of the builing inspector. Try to get your money
back as he is a fraud.


Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past 6 years or so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what would be the best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor?



There are concrete compounds that are for floor leveling. You'd have to
remove the carpet and spread the cement and finish it off. You may want to
talk to a pro for a job like that.

It may be best to determine if the floor has sagged over the years or if it
was not properly finished when the place was built. The fact that there is
a dip does not mean it is a structural problem. Any cracks? It could well
go back to the original builder.
Hi,
Did Sumo wrestler live there, LOL.
Leveling is not a hard fix unless

You have a fairly simple one to fix. You need some floor stone.
Here come the choices:
gypsum based / cement based / self leveling

I prefer cement based products as they are not affected by water
and there are no incompatibilities with adhesives.

There are several manufacturers. Here is a good one:
http://www.mapei.com/MapeiAmericas/e...ucts_line3.htm

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"fh101" wrote in message
...
I recently moved into a second story condo and have encountered
what
might be a serious problem. When I was looking at the condo, I
noticed a gradual dip in the middle of the carpeted living room
(approximately 10' X 10' and perhaps 1 inch deep at the center).
We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were told that
the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling, though the
condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could easily be
fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and reinforcing
the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the carpet to
take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't plywood, it's
concrete!
What the ?!?

Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past 6 years or
so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what would be the
best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor? I only plan on
living here for another 3-5 years and don't want to spend too
much in
improvements. At the same time, I'd hate for my floor to
collapse
onto my neighbors downstairs. Any advice? Thank you in
advance.

In a condo its possible that the slip forming was removed prematurely. An
inch dip over ten feet could also be the result of "a tired finisher". If
there are no cracks i suggest you go and find something else to worry
about--try global warming or killer bees.

--


Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable
Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.
"DanG" wrote in message
news:1QThe.34799$yV4.12333@okepread03...
You have a fairly simple one to fix. You need some floor stone.
Here come the choices:
gypsum based / cement based / self leveling

I prefer cement based products as they are not affected by water
and there are no incompatibilities with adhesives.

There are several manufacturers. Here is a good one:
http://www.mapei.com/MapeiAmericas/e...ucts_line3.htm

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"fh101" wrote in message
...
I recently moved into a second story condo and have encountered
what
might be a serious problem. When I was looking at the condo, I
noticed a gradual dip in the middle of the carpeted living room
(approximately 10' X 10' and perhaps 1 inch deep at the center).
We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were told that
the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling, though the
condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could easily be
fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and reinforcing
the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the carpet to
take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't plywood, it's
concrete!
What the ?!?

Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past 6 years or
so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what would be the
best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor? I only plan on
living here for another 3-5 years and don't want to spend too
much in
improvements. At the same time, I'd hate for my floor to
collapse
onto my neighbors downstairs. Any advice? Thank you in
advance.

Roll back the area, no cracks?? Then no problems!

Self leveling concrete is pretty easy to use but its not cheap!
(bags are around 30.00)

What I did was to clean the area, then use a latex primer to prep
the self leveling concrete a good surface to bond to.

Next mix up the batch, poor it on and spread it out. The the most
important step, LEAVE IT ALONE. Its going to level itself before
it sets up.

Make sure the whole process is done QUICKLY, this stuff likes to setup
pretty fast.
It can make a nice clean flat surface.

Was the concrete cracked? Anything opening up voids in
it?

Probably not, as it was built that way. There might
even be a drain in the center of the room if it was
built that way. The space you "bought" might have
originally been something other than an apartment; do
you know anything bout the history of the building?

Watch out: Before you do anything to "fix" that, be
certain the condo rules & regs don't forbid it, or you
could get in to some pretty hot water. You're getting
some pretty strange advice for a condo. You own a
condo, but you can't necessarily do anything you want
to or with it. Check your papers carefulyy.

Pop

"fh101" wrote
in message ...
I recently moved into a second story condo and have
encountered what
might be a serious problem. When I was looking at
the condo, I
noticed a gradual dip in the middle of the carpeted
living room
(approximately 10' X 10' and perhaps 1 inch deep at
the center). We
hired a building inspector to check it out and were
told that the
plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling,
though the condo
was structurally sound. He also said that this could
easily be fixed
at a minimal cost by pulling back the plywood and
reinforcing the
frame with some 4X4's. Well, today I peeled back the
carpet to take
a look and discovered that the subfloor isn't
plywood, it's concrete!
What the ?!?

Anyways, the condo is about 20 years old and the
previous owners
assured me that the dip hasn't increased in the past
6 years or so.
Assuming that the frame is in decent shape, what
would be the best
(and most economical) way of leveling the floor? I
only plan on
living here for another 3-5 years and don't want to
spend too much in
improvements. At the same time, I'd hate for my
floor to collapse
onto my neighbors downstairs. Any advice? Thank you
in advance.

... We hired a building inspector to check it out and were told
that the plywood floorboards were slipping due to settling,
though the condo was structurally sound. ... Well, today I
peeled back the carpet to take a look and discovered that the
subfloor isn't plywood, it's concrete!

Are you sure that whole floor is concrete? May be the floor was wood
framed and someone put some leveling compound over the top in an
attempt to fix the problem? This means the concrete that you saw may
be the leveling compound. Does the floor sound hollow when you walked
over it? If yours is really a concrete floor, you can use leveling
compound to level the floor. Although leveling compound is expensive,
you should not need that many bags for a 10'x10' area.

Please beware that leveling compound only has limited self-leveling
capability. You cannot pour it on the floor and expect it to spread out
on the floor all by itself. You need to help it alone using a straight
edge or something. If the whole floor is basically level except for the
middle of the floor, this job should be relatively easy to do for a
DIYer. But if the whole floor is not level and if you really want to
level it, you may be better off hiring a professional to do this. The
reason is that the leveling compound is not forgiving. If you made a
mistake and you wanted to undo your mistake, you will have a hard time
removing the hardened leveling compound.

Have you paid a visit to the apartment right below yours to see if
their ceiling is OK or not? At least to confirm that the problem has
been stablized.

Jay Chan

Hey fh!

Are there any cracks in the slab? If not, I would think you are
probably ok. I am planning on glueing down pine on my concrete slab.
My slab has some uneven spots that I need to level. The best bet is
purchase some self-leveling mix. I plan on trying something called
Henry Floor Smoother - a concrete type mix that you mix, pour and
spread. You can find it at Lowe's

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...95073&pad=true


If that link doesn't work, just go to the Lowes site online, type in
your zip code and do a search for the product.

Its not that difficult but can be messy if you don't prep right, but
all the instructions will be with whatever product you use. It's
pretty quick and easy stuff. However, if you are planning on keeping
your carpet down, I wouldn't fool with it until you are seriously
considering selling. Unless it's annoying you now. I don't know how
much of it you have peeled back to see your slab, but pulling up the
carpet and putting it back down snug can be a bit of a pain as well.
Again, not too difficult, but a job in itself. It's probably a two
weekend job. But it might be just as easy to have a flooring person
come in and knock it out for your prior to you putting the condo on
the market. Prior to him/her coming out, you could have already
pulled up the carpet which would save you an hour or two of billable
labor hours at 40-50 bucks an hour.

If you plan on putting wood down, you will have level it.

Hazen[

Hey Hazen,

Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate your advice.

Is self leveling concrete and other similar products pretty easy to
apply? I heard it can be pretty messy and risky if you're not
careful. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Hey fh -

Self leveling is pretty easy stuff to work with. If you prep right, it
won't be messy.

Keep in mind...NONE of this stuff is rocket science. And you CAN do
it. Maybe not as fast but you can do it. Having said that, it also
depends on the particular job. The real question is...do you really
want to do it, or are you wanting to save yourself a buck. Like I
said, if you are more interested in trying to save a buck, I'd
probably have a floor/carpet guy/gal come out to do it. Fairly
routine for them, they will have the right tools and they will knock
it out rather fast and it probably wouldn't cost that much. But get
an estimate, then price out the materials if you do it yourself and
if the difference is significant, give it a shot! If not, let the pro
do it.

If you really WANT to do it (I do enjoy doing this stuff, so it is not
so much of a money saving thing for me. Sometimes smaller jobs, after
you buy all the stuff you need, may not save you that much, so it
becomes more of a fun project). Buy a video or book on flooring. They
all have pix on how to put down self leveling concrete. It really is
pretty routine. Mix it in the bucket to specific consistancy, pour
out a small amount and trowel it smooth feathering the edges. Do all
the prepwork before you get started. Goggles, gloves - rubber medical
type, hat if your hair is long, knee pads, old clothes, 5 gallon
painter's bucket, drill with a long mixer attachement, trowel and
your mix. Pull up your carpet, roll it up, mark where you started.
Run a string from one corner of the floor diagonal to the next. Find
something like a cinderblock (or someone) to hold it down to the
floor in one corner while you hold it down on the opposite corner.
You will see the dip. Walk up to the point of the dip that is closest
to you. Take the string in your hand (while the other end is still
secured) pulling it taught and leaving it level to the ground. You
should be holding the string down on the outer edge of the low spot.
Then begin dragging the string across the low spot from left to right
marking the perimeter of the low spot. Thus you will draw an outline
around edge of the dip. I know this sounds like a pain, but this
will take about 5 minutes. Once you outline the perimeter of your low
spot. Mix your concrete, then pour the concrete in the center. Let if
flow out naturally. Depending on the flowability, if it is a little
thick, you may need to trowel it outwards from the center to your
perimeter lines. Lightly drag the trowel from the top of any high
spots pulling the concrete to the perimeter. Start out pouring less
until you get a feel for the area, the viscosity of your mix, where
the concrete flows, etc. You can always add more concrete. Keep in
mind it should flow more than you will have to spread. But if not, no
big deal, just spread with your trowel. Once it is smoothed out and
level by the naked eye, and it begins to harden slightly, do your
string test agian. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if its within
about 1/4" to 1/8 of inch, you will be fine. Then walk away and let
it dry. Once dry, roll the carpet back over and you are done. Now, I
have never tightened carpet but again...it ain't rocket science. But
read up on it first.

Remember, if you pour too much too soon, it may naturally spread
beyond your perimeter lines so start out with a small amount. Let it
flow naturally to test then use the trowel to spread. It may result
in you spreading beyond your original lines. But that's ok.

Like I said, I enjoy some of this stuff. But, if the cost to have
someone else to do it is within your budget, get someone to do it.

Let me know how it goes!

BTW, I hope this makes sense! It really is pretty routine. Especially
since you have a specific low spot.

Hazen

Whoa, what a reply. I can't thank you enough for your time and
thoughtful responses.

Sounds like this project would be pretty hard to screw up. I'll let
you know how it goes.

Cheers!

Hey fh

One more thought. I would take a half day or so and research the
construction supply places in your area. See if your more local,
commercial type lumber/home supply place (not necessarily Home Depot
or Lowe's) carry a more commercial grade leveler. Keep in mind the
higher the viscosity of your mix (watery) the less durable. Easier to
apply perhaps, but it may not be as durable in a high traffic
situation. You should be fine with a carpet/carpet pad over the top,
but I might errr towards a thicker mix and better product. I am not
saying that the Home Depot/Lowe's type stuff is bad, it may be great,
but do some research. Sometimes, when buying this type of product,
paying a little more may be a good thing...And try and ask a nuetral
source, not someone who stands to "make a sale" by boasting their
product.

Also, you may need a type of etching primer to put down on the
concrete slab before your pour the leveler. It's a matter of rolling
it on with a paint roller. Like I said, the mix should naturally
level out, and if it does, all you will need to do is trowel out the
edges to try and create a smooth transition. Even if the product you
purchase states No primer needed, do it anyway. Not that big of a
deal and will help the mix bond to the slab.

take a look at this link for an idea...

http://www.custombuildingproducts.co...er=diy&lang=en

Hazen