Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

75 Volts?

Hmmm dunno,, but sounds out of whack to me, especially for an antenna.

DOes it have a signal booster in the cicuit?

I am strongly tempted to say that you are having fun with us.
Grounded appliance (three prong) have the chassis attached to the ground.
If your ground at the breaker box was broken, and the ground wires were
shorted to a hot, you could get a voltage off the chassis. This would
require urgent attention.
But you would not get a reading off the chassis of ungrounded appliance (two
prong) because they are not attached to anything.

Either explain the problem in more detail, or go away.

"Luke" wrote in message
...
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

I seen this about 10 years ago on one job and it was the VCR messing up. The VCR
was putting 115 volts on the Cox's Cable line coming into the house.

Take all the DVD , TV Boosters , or VCR out of the circuit and hook nothing up
but the TV and you will see a difference if it is one of them. I had a 2 man
crew hunting the power source over 3 hours in a attic and found it at the tv.
I'm not in the TV and VCR business but the Customer of a big account had this
problem.

TURTLE

"Luke" wrote in message
...
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

Luke. I also had this happen years ago. I had hi volts from antenna
connecter to earth ground. Turned out to be the TV. The items you checked
were most likely 2 wire plugs with no ground connection. Warren

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

On 3 Apr 2005 15:53:41 -0700, "Matt" wrote:

75 Volts?

Hmmm dunno,, but sounds out of whack to me, especially for an antenna.

DOes it have a signal booster in the cicuit?

No. Just straight coax from roof antenna.

--
Luke

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:36:26 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:


"Luke" wrote in message
.. .
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

I seen this about 10 years ago on one job and it was the VCR messing up. The VCR
was putting 115 volts on the Cox's Cable line coming into the house.

Take all the DVD , TV Boosters , or VCR out of the circuit and hook nothing up
but the TV and you will see a difference if it is one of them. I had a 2 man
crew hunting the power source over 3 hours in a attic and found it at the tv.
I'm not in the TV and VCR business but the Customer of a big account had this
problem.

TURTLE

Thanks. I already did that. I disconnected all audio/video
connections. With *only* the TV plugged in, I get 75 volts off the
F-connector and other outputs. ~40 volts off the VCR F-connector with
*only* the VCR plugged in. And ~50 volts off the DVD player housing
with only the DVD player plugged in. Also ~30 volts off the kitchen
stand mixer housing, and the DVD player housing is hot on other
circuits, too, so obviously disconnected from the TV and VCR.


--
Luke

Luke,

I saw the same thing in a house 10 years ago. It had a floating
ground. We were putting in a new heat pump and got lit up when we cut
the Freon lines. This is really dangerous. It can kill you or damage
all your electronics or BOTH. Unless you know a lot about electricity,
have the test equipmentm and know how to use it - DO NOT MESS WITH IT.
This not the job to learn on!! Call a licensed electrician, this is
not a good place to save money by doing it yourself!!

Stretch

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-). I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

--
Luke

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them . A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current. To see if the
device is really leaking enough current to be a hazzard to the user you need
to use a special meter or load the meter you have with a resistor of a known
value.

Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged due to
old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:07:14 GMT, "toller" wrote:

I am strongly tempted to say that you are having fun with us.
Grounded appliance (three prong) have the chassis attached to the ground.
If your ground at the breaker box was broken, and the ground wires were
shorted to a hot, you could get a voltage off the chassis. This would
require urgent attention.
But you would not get a reading off the chassis of ungrounded appliance (two
prong) because they are not attached to anything.

Either explain the problem in more detail, or go away.

I didn't believe it at first, either :-). Yes, only two-prong
appliances show hot. Grounded appliances, like the washer, dryer,
stove, as best I can test, aren't hot. I had the antenna grounded to
the main house electrical ground, when I disconnected that, I still
get hot two-prong appliances, testing between the appliance
F-connector or housing and either the antenna lead or ground on an
outlet.

--
Luke

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 19:21:21 -0600, Luke wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-).

I didn't attack you, only the hacks who gave you 'advice' that
could kill you. All things being equal , I would just as soon not
have that happen ;-)

I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

'Lifted' is a trade slang term we use to describe it whan a
connection is no longer made. IE, the ground or neutral connector has
come loose, or 'lifted off', where it's supposed to be. This may be
at the panel board ( breaker box ) or it may be elsewhere.

What else works or doesn't work could have many answers, such
as 'their design', 'are they single or double insulated ?' ( IE,
designed to need or not need a ground ), hwo are the constructed
internally, etc. You low-signal ( AV ) gear is going to be much more
sensitive because of the very high signal amplification built into the
deisgn of each one. Taking a signal from source to line level ( IE
..75 V ) is a BIG gain stage. Any noise, stray voltage, etc, can be
amplified along with it.

The key tell-tale issue here, though, is not your AV stuff -
it's that, PLACED IN COMBINATION with that kitchen mixer. That tells
me that there's something pandemic to the electrical system of your
house, not just a flaky TV or such. The most common source of this
kind of thing ( in a properly wired house ) is the panel board or
service entrance or grounding system ( ground rod ). In an
incorrectly wired house, all bets are off.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:27:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them .

'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????

A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.

So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.

To see if the
device is really leaking enough current to be a hazzard to the user you need
to use a special meter or load the meter you have with a resistor of a known
value.

You are either ignorant or insane.

That is COMPLETE BULL****.

There will be no current to ground UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE
CIRCUIT WITH YOUR BODY. Then you get all twitchy, and die.

Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged due to
old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.

Then you have a short or partial short to ground ( the SS's ),
or beteeen legs ( the caps failing short ), NEITHER OF WHICH PUTS
VOLTAGE ON THE CASE OF THE MIXER IN THE KITCHEN !!!!

"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:36:26 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:


"Luke" wrote in message
. ..
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

I seen this about 10 years ago on one job and it was the VCR messing up. The
VCR
was putting 115 volts on the Cox's Cable line coming into the house.

Take all the DVD , TV Boosters , or VCR out of the circuit and hook nothing up
but the TV and you will see a difference if it is one of them. I had a 2 man
crew hunting the power source over 3 hours in a attic and found it at the tv.
I'm not in the TV and VCR business but the Customer of a big account had this
problem.

TURTLE

Thanks. I already did that. I disconnected all audio/video
connections. With *only* the TV plugged in, I get 75 volts off the
F-connector and other outputs. ~40 volts off the VCR F-connector with
*only* the VCR plugged in. And ~50 volts off the DVD player housing
with only the DVD player plugged in. Also ~30 volts off the kitchen
stand mixer housing, and the DVD player housing is hot on other
circuits, too, so obviously disconnected from the TV and VCR.


--
Luke

This is Turtle.

Unplug everything and just read off the two ends of the house and entrance cable
to if it is coming in or backing up on just the cable. It has to be coming from
somewhere 1

TURTLE

Does the TV have 2 prong plug or a 3 prong plug?

Are you using a digital Voltmeter?

Try this with a test lamp with a 25 Watt bulb.

It is normal for 2 prong appliances to sometimes have a small amount of
leakage. A digital voltmeter will respond and show this leakage.

If this is a 3 prong applicance then something is very wrong and maybe
dangerous

And if it is either 2 or 3 prong and you can see any light at all of a
25 Watt light test bub then something is VERY wrong and it is VERY
dangerous.

Mark
..

"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-). I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

Paul Milligan above here telling of hacks is nothing but a air condtioner
software salesman and has not a clue as to what your problem is. The only 120
volt item that he may work on is his razar to shave with in the morning when it
will not run. Now he does know a bunch about software to tell about air
conditioners and heating system as to what size you would need to install. I one
of the so call hacks he speaks of have held Electrican licences for over 30
years and in the hvac business for over 40 years. Also i run my own hvac
business and all paul runs is his head. Watch who you listen to on the
newsgroups.

TURTLE

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:27:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them .

'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????

A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.

So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.

To see if the
device is really leaking enough current to be a hazzard to the user you need
to use a special meter or load the meter you have with a resistor of a known
value.

You are either ignorant or insane.

That is COMPLETE BULL****.

There will be no current to ground UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE
CIRCUIT WITH YOUR BODY. Then you get all twitchy, and die.

Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged due to
old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.

Then you have a short or partial short to ground ( the SS's ),
or beteeen legs ( the caps failing short ), NEITHER OF WHICH PUTS
VOLTAGE ON THE CASE OF THE MIXER IN THE KITCHEN !!!!


This is Turtle.

Spoken like a true software saleman. I think Mell used the same words.

TURTLE

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:57:37 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:


This is Turtle.

Unplug everything and just read off the two ends of the house and entrance cable
to if it is coming in or backing up on just the cable. It has to be coming from
somewhere 1

TURTLE

Wow, that's ****ing perceptive.

On 3 Apr 2005 19:00:36 -0700, "Mark" wrote:

Does the TV have 2 prong plug or a 3 prong plug?

Are you using a digital Voltmeter?

Try this with a test lamp with a 25 Watt bulb.

It is normal for 2 prong appliances to sometimes have a small amount of
leakage. A digital voltmeter will respond and show this leakage.

If this is a 3 prong applicance then something is very wrong and maybe
dangerous

And if it is either 2 or 3 prong and you can see any light at all of a
25 Watt light test bub then something is VERY wrong and it is VERY
dangerous.


What a great technical test and diagnosis.

For an unemployed plumber, maybe.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the
electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them .

'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????


Ok, master electrician. The GFCI compairs the current going into the device
on the hot wire and comming out of the device on the nutral. As the mixer
probably does not have a ground wire the GFIC will not detect any leakage to
ground as there is no ground involved. If it did have a ground wire the
gfic would be tripping if there was a leakage of a big enough current. A
device can have a small ammount of leakage and not be detected by the GFIC .
A very high impedance voltmeter will show some voltage. A good old Simpson
260 will show a much lower voltage than a digital meter if this is the case.



A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.

So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.


Hate to tell you but the analog voltmeters are actually current meters and
are calibrated in voltage. If you take care to look at the Simpson 260 you
will see it is a basic 50 microamp meter and resistors are put in series
with it to give a voltage reading. There is also a diode to convert the AC
to DC for the basic meter movement.
As analog meters usually have a much lower impedance they will read a lower
voltage than the the digital meters if the voltage source can not supply
enough current due to the impedance of the circuit.

I work in a large factory and deal with everything from low miliamp circuits
to 480 3 phase circuits at 600 amps. In the last couple of months I have
started some training on the 4160 volt and 13 K volt main feeders in the
plant.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 02:27:50 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the
electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them .

'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????


Ok, master electrician. The GFCI compairs the current going into the device
on the hot wire and comming out of the device on the nutral. As the mixer
probably does not have a ground wire the GFIC will not detect any leakage to
ground as there is no ground involved. If it did have a ground wire the
gfic would be tripping if there was a leakage of a big enough current. A
device can have a small ammount of leakage and not be detected by the GFIC .
A very high impedance voltmeter will show some voltage. A good old Simpson
260 will show a much lower voltage than a digital meter if this is the case.



A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.

So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.


Hate to tell you but the analog voltmeters are actually current meters and
are calibrated in voltage. If you take care to look at the Simpson 260 you
will see it is a basic 50 microamp meter and resistors are put in series
with it to give a voltage reading. There is also a diode to convert the AC
to DC for the basic meter movement.

The same circuit exists in your digital watch, but it can't
read amps either.

Hate to tell you, but you're confusing the INTERNAL mechanism
( a wheytstone ( sic ) bridge or similar ) with its ability to sense
current flowing on the wire the probe is on.

A VOLT meter does NOT, NEVER, EVER, tell you what current is
flowing on the wire your probe is on. Period. End of story.

As analog meters usually have a much lower impedance they will read a lower
voltage than the the digital meters if the voltage source can not supply
enough current due to the impedance of the circuit.

I work in a large factory and deal with everything from low miliamp circuits
to 480 3 phase circuits at 600 amps. In the last couple of months I have
started some training on the 4160 volt and 13 K volt main feeders in the
plant.

That's nice. When you've been at it as long as I have, and
have your Masters License in your pocket along with 4 others, come
back and argue with me some more.

Until then, you're the trainee maintenance guy in the
electrical department. Don't argue with the engineers.

Especially when you don't understand how your hand tools work.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
nk.net...
BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the
electronics.
Many devices will have some leakage to them .

'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????


Ok, master electrician. The GFCI compairs the current going into the device
on the hot wire and comming out of the device on the nutral. As the mixer
probably does not have a ground wire the GFIC will not detect any leakage to
ground as there is no ground involved. If it did have a ground wire the
gfic would be tripping if there was a leakage of a big enough current. A
device can have a small ammount of leakage and not be detected by the GFIC .
A very high impedance voltmeter will show some voltage. A good old Simpson
260 will show a much lower voltage than a digital meter if this is the case.



A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.

So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.


Hate to tell you but the analog voltmeters are actually current meters and
are calibrated in voltage. If you take care to look at the Simpson 260 you
will see it is a basic 50 microamp meter and resistors are put in series
with it to give a voltage reading. There is also a diode to convert the AC
to DC for the basic meter movement.
As analog meters usually have a much lower impedance they will read a lower
voltage than the the digital meters if the voltage source can not supply
enough current due to the impedance of the circuit.

I work in a large factory and deal with everything from low miliamp circuits
to 480 3 phase circuits at 600 amps. In the last couple of months I have
started some training on the 4160 volt and 13 K volt main feeders in the
plant.

This is Turtle.

You Whizzzzed over his Master Electrical licences in electronics. He never seen
# 2 wire.

TURTLE

wrote in message
news
On 3 Apr 2005 19:00:36 -0700, "Mark" wrote:

Does the TV have 2 prong plug or a 3 prong plug?

Are you using a digital Voltmeter?

Try this with a test lamp with a 25 Watt bulb.

It is normal for 2 prong appliances to sometimes have a small amount of
leakage. A digital voltmeter will respond and show this leakage.

If this is a 3 prong applicance then something is very wrong and maybe
dangerous

And if it is either 2 or 3 prong and you can see any light at all of a
25 Watt light test bub then something is VERY wrong and it is VERY
dangerous.


What a great technical test and diagnosis.

For an unemployed plumber, maybe.


This is Turtle.

Hey Paul Where are you working at now or just tring sell software from home?

TURTLE

wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:


Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.


DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?


NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

Well, licensed electricians don't work on TV's. TV repair men and
electronic techs do. And in most locations there NOT licensed
like electricians or HVAC men are.


I do agree. If its truly leakage, it can be deadly. Most modern TV's
are hot chassis. That means they don't have a direct from the power line
power isolation transformer like in the old days. They turn the AC line
into a high DC voltage and then switch it with a secondary transformer
into the low DC rails required for the TV. This is the "cold" side of
the TV.

This cold side of the TV is where the signal processing and the antenna
input are. If there is a leakage fault in the TV, it could cause a
voltage on the antenna terminal. But you have to differentiate between a
phantom voltage and a fault. A good TV shop will have a tool
like a Sencore that can easily measure if any surface of the TV has
a abnormal amount of AC leakage.


Leakage can go both ways. EC&M magazine has had some doozy examples of
how this can happen. Like a guy who had the foil insulation of his house
at AC line level when a nail went through the siding and nicked the hot
side of a piece of romax.

Another issue is reverse wired AC outlets. A $10 home depot AC outlet
and polarity checker will tell you if the hot and ground and neutral are
intact in any household outlet.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

Since most modern TV's are two wire, if the TV works its would be
pretty hard to have a lifted neutral at that outlet.
Reversed hot/neutral maybe. For those that don't know, ground and
neutral are suppose to be bonded together in the service panel.
Even though there at the same potential, the ground is for safety
only and NOT suppose to be a current carrying conductor in a non fault
situation. Many cable TV drops develop a voltage problem when the ground
strap to the households ground rod or water pipe is missing or is
corroded or loose.


Bob

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.



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It's OK Paul.

We all know you are the worlds foremost expert in the use of your hand
as a .... tool.

And I still forgive you.

Your friend,
Matt

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:02:53 -0500, Bob Urz
wrote:



wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:


Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.


DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?


NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

Well, licensed electricians don't work on TV's. TV repair men and
electronic techs do. And in most locations there NOT licensed
like electricians or HVAC men are.


I do agree. If its truly leakage, it can be deadly. Most modern TV's
are hot chassis. That means they don't have a direct from the power line
power isolation transformer like in the old days. They turn the AC line
into a high DC voltage and then switch it with a secondary transformer
into the low DC rails required for the TV. This is the "cold" side of
the TV.

This cold side of the TV is where the signal processing and the antenna
input are. If there is a leakage fault in the TV, it could cause a
voltage on the antenna terminal. But you have to differentiate between a
phantom voltage and a fault. A good TV shop will have a tool
like a Sencore that can easily measure if any surface of the TV has
a abnormal amount of AC leakage.

Yes - but when you have 30 V to ground on the case of a
kitchen mixer, you don't need to go there. You need an electrician,
not a bench tech.

Leakage can go both ways. EC&M magazine has had some doozy examples of
how this can happen. Like a guy who had the foil insulation of his house
at AC line level when a nail went through the siding and nicked the hot
side of a piece of romax.

Yep. Who you gonna call ? :-)

Another issue is reverse wired AC outlets. A $10 home depot AC outlet
and polarity checker will tell you if the hot and ground and neutral are
intact in any household outlet.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

Since most modern TV's are two wire, if the TV works its would be
pretty hard to have a lifted neutral at that outlet.

Not really. Lifted open. High resistance connection is a
strong possiblity.

Reversed hot/neutral maybe. For those that don't know, ground and
neutral are suppose to be bonded together in the service panel.
Even though there at the same potential, the ground is for safety
only and NOT suppose to be a current carrying conductor in a non fault
situation. Many cable TV drops develop a voltage problem when the ground
strap to the households ground rod or water pipe is missing or is
corroded or loose.

IE 'lifted' :-)

Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently
flaky. Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I
touched both the TV F-connector and coax cable antenna
lead. So I put a tester on and to my surprise got a 75 volt
? reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the
outlet ground plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's
75 volts between any connector on the TV and any of
these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the VCR
F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house
circuits. I plugged the TV into several, using extension
cords, and carried the DVD player around to plug it into
all circuits. I also get ~30 volts off the housing of
an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

The voltage on the mixer points to a household wiring problem, and the
floating neutral makes the most sense. Get it fixed.

Voltage on things like TVs and VCRs is often normal (but probably not
in this case) because of low-value filter capacitors connected between
chassis ground and the AC lines. These capacitors are small enough, no
bigger than .005uF each, to limit 60 Hz AC current leakage to safe
levels, just a few milliamps. There's also a low-value capacitor in
series with the F-connector's center pin, also for safety isolation,
but TV power supplies usually provide no isolation and have the TV's
chassis connected directly to the neutral wire (why TVs came with
polarized plugs long before most other appliances did). Sometimes the
chassis is even held above ground, at 60-90VDC (be sure to measure with
your meter set to both AC volts and DC volts).

I don't understand why your TV antenna mast and cable aren't grounded
for lightning protection and to prevent shock (any dead birds or rats
around the antenna?). However in this case that could have caused
damage to your video equipment.

wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:02:53 -0500, Bob Urz
wrote:



wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:



Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.


DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?


NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

Well, licensed electricians don't work on TV's. TV repair men and
electronic techs do. And in most locations there NOT licensed
like electricians or HVAC men are.


I do agree. If its truly leakage, it can be deadly. Most modern TV's
are hot chassis. That means they don't have a direct from the power line
power isolation transformer like in the old days. They turn the AC line
into a high DC voltage and then switch it with a secondary transformer
into the low DC rails required for the TV. This is the "cold" side of
the TV.

This cold side of the TV is where the signal processing and the antenna
input are. If there is a leakage fault in the TV, it could cause a
voltage on the antenna terminal. But you have to differentiate between a
phantom voltage and a fault. A good TV shop will have a tool
like a Sencore that can easily measure if any surface of the TV has
a abnormal amount of AC leakage.


Yes - but when you have 30 V to ground on the case of a
kitchen mixer, you don't need to go there. You need an electrician,
not a bench tech.



Well, if its only the mixer you need an appliance tech then.
A smart electrician should be able to understand the problem.

One big issue on leakage is phantom voltage. And understanding
what that really means. Most modern DVM's have such a high input
impedance that they can read a voltage that really not there.
A older analog meter like a simpson 260 would not have this problem
since it has a much lower input impedance. Some people have run into
this issue measuring a voltage on a un energized circuit in house
wiring. They put the DVM on the dead circuit and read 30 to 60 volts or
so and think they have a problem. When in reality its the capacitive
coupling of wires close together generating this "phantom" voltage.
Put any kind of load on the wires and it goes away. Capacitive coupling
can cause this effect in other devices too. A small load and it goes
away. In any case, a leakage test with proper test equipment is the
best way to put an end to the issue.

I have had and fixed TV's with excessive voltage on the F terminal. And
the TV's DID have an internal fault.

Bob


Leakage can go both ways. EC&M magazine has had some doozy examples of
how this can happen. Like a guy who had the foil insulation of his house
at AC line level when a nail went through the siding and nicked the hot
side of a piece of romax.


Yep. Who you gonna call ? :-)


Another issue is reverse wired AC outlets. A $10 home depot AC outlet
and polarity checker will tell you if the hot and ground and neutral are
intact in any household outlet.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

Since most modern TV's are two wire, if the TV works its would be
pretty hard to have a lifted neutral at that outlet.


Not really. Lifted open. High resistance connection is a
strong possiblity.


Reversed hot/neutral maybe. For those that don't know, ground and
neutral are suppose to be bonded together in the service panel.
Even though there at the same potential, the ground is for safety
only and NOT suppose to be a current carrying conductor in a non fault
situation. Many cable TV drops develop a voltage problem when the ground
strap to the households ground rod or water pipe is missing or is
corroded or loose.


IE 'lifted' :-)

Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

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On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:30:17 -0500, Bob Urz
wrote:

Well, if its only the mixer you need an appliance tech then.
A smart electrician should be able to understand the problem.

But it's not. He said it's all over the house, all kinds of
different devices, lots of different outlets. He was very specific on
that. I bet if he looked further, and knew how to look further, he
would have a longer list of places and devices where it shows up.

BTW - he said '30 V at the mixer, 75 V elsewhere'. Unless
there's a voltage doubler somewhere between the alleged leak in the
mixer and the rest of the house, it's not a leak in the mixer causing
this.

One big issue on leakage is phantom voltage. And understanding
what that really means. Most modern DVM's have such a high input
impedance that they can read a voltage that really not there.

What do you figure the chances are of seeing 30 - 75 V to
ground on multiple appliance chassis all over the house, and there not
being an actual problem ? I say 'zero'. What's your number ?

away. In any case, a leakage test with proper test equipment is the
best way to put an end to the issue.

Yep. IE - 'call a sparky'.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:30:17 -0500, Bob Urz
wrote:


Well, if its only the mixer you need an appliance tech then.
A smart electrician should be able to understand the problem.


But it's not. He said it's all over the house, all kinds of
different devices, lots of different outlets. He was very specific on
that. I bet if he looked further, and knew how to look further, he
would have a longer list of places and devices where it shows up.

BTW - he said '30 V at the mixer, 75 V elsewhere'. Unless
there's a voltage doubler somewhere between the alleged leak in the
mixer and the rest of the house, it's not a leak in the mixer causing
this.


One big issue on leakage is phantom voltage. And understanding
what that really means. Most modern DVM's have such a high input
impedance that they can read a voltage that really not there.


What do you figure the chances are of seeing 30 - 75 V to
ground on multiple appliance chassis all over the house, and there not
being an actual problem ? I say 'zero'. What's your number ?


There are only a few possibilities here. One in the power distribution
One with the appliances. Or no problem at all and misinterpretation
of the data. WHen i get a chance, i will fluke some pieces i have laying
around and see what the results are. If any reads high, i will put
a leakage tester on them and recheck. Personally, i doubt that its in
the wiring unless it has been tampered with.

Bob


away. In any case, a leakage test with proper test equipment is the
best way to put an end to the issue.


Yep. IE - 'call a sparky'.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

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Luke wrote:
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

I do suggest rechecking it with an older analog meter or add a 120V lamp
across the circuit before testing. See what you get.

I agree with those who pointed out a number of issues like floating
neutral that might be involved. You don't want to mess with this kind of
problem, you want to fix it and now.


Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

Luke :

Sorry to say that we are having a little problem with one or more local
trolls. It should be easy for you to ID them and ignore them.

Turtle somehow get tied up in this. He has been long known for great
advice and his gentleman manor. I suggest you ignore his responses to the
troll(s) but do listen to his advice.

Note to Turtle.

The less attention given to those who have social problems, the better.
Don't let them get you down.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

Aside from all the other suggestions, don't forget that the cable system
gets its power from the cable itself. That's on the order of 75 volts
send down the large center conductor of the cable. You might need a
visit from the Cable Guy to check it out.

Sounds like induced voltage. Put a resistor, say 47k up to 470k, across
those points and measure again. You can use a night light if you don't have
any resistors.
If the voltage goes away, it's induced voltage, which is harmless. If it
looks gone, take the meter down to a lower scale, say 10Vac, and see if it
still reads zero.
If the voltage doesn't go away, and especially if it stays at the
previous voltages, it's dangerous. Start disconnecting things one at a time
until it goes away.
I suspect it will go away.
Hope you'll post back with the solution; interesting problem.
--
Let someone else do it
I'm retired!
"Luke" wrote in message
...
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!

--
Luke

"Mark" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does the TV have 2 prong plug or a 3 prong plug?

Are you using a digital Voltmeter?

Try this with a test lamp with a 25 Watt bulb.

It is normal for 2 prong appliances to sometimes have a small amount of
leakage. A digital voltmeter will respond and show this leakage.

If this is a 3 prong applicance then something is very wrong and maybe
dangerous

And if it is either 2 or 3 prong and you can see any light at all of a
25 Watt light test bub then something is VERY wrong and it is VERY
dangerous.

Mark
.

Better to measure voltage cross the bulb. Incandescents won't glow until
they get to around 85-90V. If it's zero with the bulb, then it's just
induced voltages. He said they were 2 prong outlets and thus no earth
ground is present.

wrote in message
news
On 3 Apr 2005 19:00:36 -0700, "Mark" wrote:

Does the TV have 2 prong plug or a 3 prong plug?

Are you using a digital Voltmeter?

Try this with a test lamp with a 25 Watt bulb.

It is normal for 2 prong appliances to sometimes have a small amount of
leakage. A digital voltmeter will respond and show this leakage.

If this is a 3 prong applicance then something is very wrong and maybe
dangerous

And if it is either 2 or 3 prong and you can see any light at all of a
25 Watt light test bub then something is VERY wrong and it is VERY
dangerous.


What a great technical test and diagnosis.

For an unemployed plumber, maybe.


You must be a plumber, eh? Kinda smelly where you keep that head of yours?

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


BTW, I'm an electical engineer; so what? He DOES have the tools, he used
them in order to post here, and he also has the advice to work that out
without bringing in a hi-priced electrician (yet) to tell him it's induced
voltages or worse yet a few thousand in repairs, most of which he probably
doesn't need. IFF the equipment came as two-wire, he's fine. If he's
fiddled with removing ground pins for two prong outlets eg plugged 3-wires
into unearthed outlets, he's not likely to call in an electrician, is he?
Thimk man, thimk! Yes, I said thimk!
Pop

"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-). I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

Paul Milligan above here telling of hacks is nothing but a air condtioner
software salesman and has not a clue as to what your problem is. The only
120 volt item that he may work on is his razar to shave with in the
morning when it will not run. Now he does know a bunch about software to
tell about air conditioners and heating system as to what size you would
need to install. I one of the so call hacks he speaks of have held
Electrican licences for over 30 years and in the hvac business for over 40
years. Also i run my own hvac business and all paul runs is his head.
Watch who you listen to on the newsgroups.

TURTLE

Good advice. But, whenever a person wishes to call in a contractor, I would
never recommend against it. The only real problem here is the buffoon with
his egocentric mouth-hole in gear without a running motor to drive it.
Concensus usually wins out with most posters, so one of that ilk only
causes a little momentary stress. It's also possible he's right but he's
bypassing the simple things that might easily determine that an electrician
isn't needed, and that it won't take digging into anything more than a light
bulb or resistor to measure across in order to see what kind of current
might be there.
Besides that, he probably enjoys flames because he gets to show off the
vocabulary his father taught him.
Pop

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:43:16 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


BTW, I'm an electical engineer; so what? He DOES have the tools, he used
them in order to post here, and he also has the advice to work that out
without bringing in a hi-priced electrician (yet) to tell him it's induced
voltages or worse yet a few thousand in repairs, most of which he probably
doesn't need. IFF the equipment came as two-wire, he's fine. If he's
fiddled with removing ground pins for two prong outlets eg plugged 3-wires
into unearthed outlets, he's not likely to call in an electrician, is he?
Thimk man, thimk! Yes, I said thimk!
Pop


Think about this - IF there's a hi-Z connection in the service
panel ground or neutral systems, or at the system grounding point,
which could certainly cause this, then what the hell does it matter
'how the equipment came' ?

You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


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