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  #41   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:50:30 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:

"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..

"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-). I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

--
Luke


This is Turtle.

Paul Milligan above here telling of hacks is nothing but a air condtioner
software salesman and has not a clue as to what your problem is. The only
120 volt item that he may work on is his razar to shave with in the
morning when it will not run. Now he does know a bunch about software to
tell about air conditioners and heating system as to what size you would
need to install. I one of the so call hacks he speaks of have held
Electrican licences for over 30 years and in the hvac business for over 40
years. Also i run my own hvac business and all paul runs is his head.
Watch who you listen to on the newsgroups.

TURTLE

Good advice. But, whenever a person wishes to call in a contractor, I would
never recommend against it. The only real problem here is the buffoon with
his egocentric mouth-hole in gear without a running motor to drive it.
Concensus usually wins out with most posters, so one of that ilk only
causes a little momentary stress. It's also possible he's right but he's
bypassing the simple things that might easily determine that an electrician
isn't needed, and that it won't take digging into anything more than a light
bulb or resistor to measure across in order to see what kind of current
might be there.
Besides that, he probably enjoys flames because he gets to show off the
vocabulary his father taught him.
Pop


Actually, it was your mother.

Moron.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
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  #42   Report Post  
Art Todesco
 
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I have seen many "newer" (15 years old or so) where the power internally
is derived from inverters right off the AC line. In many cases the, so
called chassis voltage (chassis "ground"), ends up being something other
than 0 volts. I have seen it to be 1/2 the line voltage. The tuner
input (the 75 ohm F connector) is capacitively coupled to this internal
chassis non-0 volt-"ground". It is a very small capacitor as it only
has to pass high frequency TV signals in the MHz range. However, with a
high impedance meter, one will read some of the 60Hz line through that
capacitor. As others have stated, with a old meter, i.e. 20000
ohms/volt, you probably won't see the voltage. I would, however, make
sure there is not a fault condition.

Bob Urz wrote:


wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:30:17 -0500, Bob Urz
wrote:


Well, if its only the mixer you need an appliance tech then.
A smart electrician should be able to understand the problem.




But it's not. He said it's all over the house, all kinds of
different devices, lots of different outlets. He was very specific on
that. I bet if he looked further, and knew how to look further, he
would have a longer list of places and devices where it shows up.

BTW - he said '30 V at the mixer, 75 V elsewhere'. Unless
there's a voltage doubler somewhere between the alleged leak in the
mixer and the rest of the house, it's not a leak in the mixer causing
this.


One big issue on leakage is phantom voltage. And understanding
what that really means. Most modern DVM's have such a high input
impedance that they can read a voltage that really not there.




What do you figure the chances are of seeing 30 - 75 V to
ground on multiple appliance chassis all over the house, and there not
being an actual problem ? I say 'zero'. What's your number ?


There are only a few possibilities here. One in the power distribution
One with the appliances. Or no problem at all and misinterpretation
of the data. WHen i get a chance, i will fluke some pieces i have laying
around and see what the results are. If any reads high, i will put
a leakage tester on them and recheck. Personally, i doubt that its in
the wiring unless it has been tampered with.

Bob


away. In any case, a leakage test with proper test equipment is the
best way to put an end to the issue.




Yep. IE - 'call a sparky'.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online
http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



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  #43   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:15:19 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:

I have seen many "newer" (15 years old or so) where the power internally
is derived from inverters right off the AC line.


Maybe I didn't stress this clearly enough before when I said
it, or maybe everyone missed it in the OP's original post :

( as I said before ) : " The thing that tells me most of all
that you need an electrician is not so much the TV and AV equipment,
but THE OLD FLOOR STANDING KITCEN MIXER WITH 30 V TO GROUND ON THE
CHASSIS".

This takes all the stuff about satellite dishes and mast
amplifiers getting power off the co-ax, and amplifying TV signals, and
all that other stuff, OFF THE TABLE.

In many cases the, so
called chassis voltage (chassis "ground"), ends up being something other
than 0 volts. I have seen it to be 1/2 the line voltage. The tuner
input (the 75 ohm F connector) is capacitively coupled to this internal
chassis non-0 volt-"ground". It is a very small capacitor as it only
has to pass high frequency TV signals in the MHz range. However, with a
high impedance meter, one will read some of the 60Hz line through that
capacitor. As others have stated, with a old meter, i.e. 20000
ohms/volt, you probably won't see the voltage. I would, however, make
sure there is not a fault condition.


'Not being able to see it because an old meter is less
accurate' doesn't give me much comfort.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #44   Report Post  
toller
 
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"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:07:14 GMT, "toller" wrote:

I am strongly tempted to say that you are having fun with us.
Grounded appliance (three prong) have the chassis attached to the ground.
If your ground at the breaker box was broken, and the ground wires were
shorted to a hot, you could get a voltage off the chassis. This would
require urgent attention.
But you would not get a reading off the chassis of ungrounded appliance
(two
prong) because they are not attached to anything.

Either explain the problem in more detail, or go away.


I didn't believe it at first, either :-). Yes, only two-prong
appliances show hot. Grounded appliances, like the washer, dryer,
stove, as best I can test, aren't hot. I had the antenna grounded to
the main house electrical ground, when I disconnected that, I still
get hot two-prong appliances, testing between the appliance
F-connector or housing and either the antenna lead or ground on an
outlet.

Sorry, but this is over my head to diagnose without seeing it.
It can't be induced voltage because you don't get a shock off induced
voltage.
It can't be a floating neutral because you would be having other serious
effects (lights way too bright, lights way too dim) from a floating neutral.
And it can't be from your cable system because you don't have a cable
system.
And that exhausts this group's suggestions.

Obviously you have test more systematically to isolate the problem, but you
already know that.
Good luck.


  #45   Report Post  
TKM
 
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"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Luke wrote:
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.


I do suggest rechecking it with an older analog meter or add a 120V
lamp across the circuit before testing. See what you get.

I agree with those who pointed out a number of issues like floating
neutral that might be involved. You don't want to mess with this kind of
problem, you want to fix it and now.


Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit


Might be more than one thing wrong. I'll guess a resistive short in some
appliance to ground and a partial or floating ground. Do you happen to have
an electric hot water heater? A punctured heating element will use the
water as a resistor and make the pipes and anything connected to them hot if
they are not well grounded to the main panel ground. It's easy to check;
just switch off the heater at the circuit breaker panel. Try switching
other large applicances too -- stove, washer, etc.

But first, why don't you pull your main breaker and then check the voltage
to see if the voltage is coming from your house. It might be coming from
someone else on the same cable or water line.

I agree with the others that this is a potentially dangerous situation.
It's O.K. to take a voltage measurement using insulated leads and you can
flip circuit breakers (some people stand on a rubber mat when they are near
the circuit breaker panel), but don't touch the cable connectors and
something that may be live or grounded.

Get some professional help if you can't find the source of the problem with
simple testing.

TKM




  #46   Report Post  
Choreboy
 
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Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.


If your antenna/cable is ungrounded, perhaps the shock was static from
dry wind on the antenna and not related to your reading.


It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Are all these readings AC? Digital meters have such high impedence that
they can show the voltage metal picks up from radiated electromagnetic
energy. I'd get a resistor of 20,000 ohms or so and clip it between my
test leads to see if the reading dropped a lot. I'd be concerned if it
didn't drop much. If it dropped a lot I'd measure current.

Either way, I'd see if I got readings with all the circuit breakers
turned off. Then I'd check the effect of turning on each breaker.

Choreboy
  #48   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On 4 Apr 2005 17:24:12 GMT, Jim Yanik . wrote:

wrote in
news



What a great technical test and diagnosis.

For an unemployed plumber, maybe.



I don't see YOU offering anything better.


Then you haven't read my posts.

I gave him the best ( and only correct ) advice possible '

"You have done well to find this issue, you have done well to
look at it as far as you have, now you need a pro to come in and find
the problem, and see if your electrical system is safe."

If your definition of 'better' is 'Here's how you fix it
without any tools or knowledge', look elsewhere for your answers,
other than my posts. Homey don't play that.

He said "I looked at the breaker panel, but I don't know what
I'm looking at". His words. Would you have me advise him on how to
check all the connections and wires and breakers and busses for safety
and correct operation, from my chair here across the Internet ? Do
you think he could perform a correct and adequate safety inspection of
his electrical service 'with just a little help from Usenet' ?

Bull****.

When someone says "I looked at the breaker panel, but I don't
know what I'm looking at", the ONLY correct, safe, respectful,
courteous response is "Slowly and carefully put the cover back on, if
you took it off, and call an electrician". Anything else is hack
bull****, dangerous, and liable to get someone killed.

At least I haven't offered any 'advice' that will get him
killed and burn his house down, as Matt has done right here today on
another electrical question.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #49   Report Post  
HerHusband
 
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Luke,

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.


AC or DC voltage?

Doesn't sound like a problem with the TV antenna. To check, disconnect the
antenna cable and measure for voltage between the center conductor and the
screw-on F-connector. You shouldn't see any voltage, or maybe a volt or two
at most (induction, meter inaccuracies, etc.).

If you are getting DC voltage from the coax coming from your TV antenna
(not connected to anything), see if you have an antenna rotator or remote
amplifier. These often get power from DC voltage sent over the coax TV
cable. If that's the case, there should be an indoor transformer connected
to the coax somewhere. Follow the cable back to the antenna to track it
down.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground


That would lead me to believe the coax cable is grounded too, since the
ground and coax connector are at the same voltage potential.

I'm also getting ~40 volts off the VCR F-connector,
and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.
I also get ~30 volts off the housing of an old stand mixer


I wouldn't be too concerned about small voltages coming off the F-
connectors, but you should not be getting any significant voltages off of
the cases of your DVD player or stand mixer.

My first guess would be a faulty electrical ground.

Set your meter to AC voltage and go to a grounded electrical outlet in your
house. Measure between the ground hole and each of the two "prong" holes.
You should get about 100-130 volts between ground and the small "hot" slot,
and you should get 0 volts between ground and the larger "neutral" slot.
You should also read the same 110-120 volts between the hot and neutral
slots. (You can buy inexpensive plug-in "electrical testers" at any home
center to verify the wiring is connected properly).

The ground and neutral should be at the same voltage potential, as they
connect to the same bus bar back at the main breaker panel. If you measure
more than a few volts between the ground and neutral, you could have wiring
problems, either in the house somewhere, or at the breaker panel itself.
Time to call an electrician.

Even if the wiring is all connected properly, some old houses used metal
water piping as their electrical grounds. It's possible that someone
replaced plumbing at some point with plastic (non-conductive) piping. This
could potentially leave you without a grounded electrical system. That's
why it's not allowed by code anymore. You should have dedicated ground rods
for your electrical system. Even if you have the ground rods, it's possible
the wires running to them are broken somewhere.

If you are getting voltages outside of the numbers mentioned above, you may
have a bad meter. Install a fresh battery and/or try a different meter. If
you still get wild voltages, call the power company to come check the
voltage to your house.

Also, be sure you are not touching the tips of the meter probes with your
fingers. You can induce some wild voltage readings on sensitive meters just
with your body...

Anthony
  #50   Report Post  
BOB URZ
 
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wrote:

I have seen many "newer" (15 years old or so) where the power internally
is derived from inverters right off the AC line.


Maybe I didn't stress this clearly enough before when I said
it, or maybe everyone missed it in the OP's original post :

( as I said before ) : " The thing that tells me most of all
that you need an electrician is not so much the TV and AV equipment,
but THE OLD FLOOR STANDING KITCEN MIXER WITH 30 V TO GROUND ON THE
CHASSIS".


Assuming this case and the mixer works fine (and has NO internal leakage faults).
Most mixers are two wire devices. That means the mixer has power. If that's the
case, i see two possibilities. either the hot and ground are reversed and the
mixer uses a polarized plug, or the ground on the receptacles (which is NOT used on
a two wire appliance) is NOT grounded back at the service entrance.
And the op is trying to use this ground which is not really hooked
up to anything for his tests. Now, either of these should be
an electrician issue. Maybe the house was a older house and
was upgraded from two pin to three pin sockets without actually
putting in and connecting the ground wire. It would not be the first time this has
happened. I think you can legally do this in some retrofit cases by using a 3 pin
GFI outlet with no separate ground wire back to the service panel.

Bob


This takes all the stuff about satellite dishes and mast
amplifiers getting power off the co-ax, and amplifying TV signals, and
all that other stuff, OFF THE TABLE.

In many cases the, so
called chassis voltage (chassis "ground"), ends up being something other
than 0 volts. I have seen it to be 1/2 the line voltage. The tuner
input (the 75 ohm F connector) is capacitively coupled to this internal
chassis non-0 volt-"ground". It is a very small capacitor as it only
has to pass high frequency TV signals in the MHz range. However, with a
high impedance meter, one will read some of the 60Hz line through that
capacitor. As others have stated, with a old meter, i.e. 20000
ohms/volt, you probably won't see the voltage. I would, however, make
sure there is not a fault condition.


'Not being able to see it because an old meter is less
accurate' doesn't give me much comfort.


Accuracy has nothing to do with it. Its the input IMPEDANCE of the
volt meter. A digital fluke has a typical input z or 10M ohm or so.
It can do this because it has a very high impedance OP amp buffer
on the input side.

http://www.alfaelectronics.com/FLUKE70.htm

That kind of high z input will allow a phantom voltage to read.
so it has NOTHING to do with accuracy, and every thing to do
with the load the meter puts on what is being measured.
Older analog meter have a mid level impedance. from 1000
ohms to 50K or so. Depends on the model. Most have no
input buffer amps (Older VTVM excepted), so there input
impedance is a combinations of the meter movement and the
voltage divider resistors used for the voltage ranges.
This mid level impedance is enough of a load to make these phantom voltages
disappear. Phantom voltages have voltage potential, but
little current drive potential. A phantom voltage in black box form
would be a voltage source with a VERY high resistor in series with
the voltage source. So it cannot drive much current into a load.

This phantom voltage is like getting shocked off the carpet by static
electricity. The voltage might be there but its not enough to cause any harm.

Bob



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'



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  #51   Report Post  
Luke
 
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You folks (almost) sound like the US Congress ;-).

I appreciate all the responses. Thanks!

We're waiting on a call back from the electrician.

Meanwhile, some more detail:

I'm using an analog multitester (Radio Shack - Micronta). [And the wet
finger test, which gives a definite tingle/mild shock only between a
TV connector and antenna cable end or outlet screw.] It's a roof top
antenna, no cable or satellite. Results are the same with the antenna
grounded or ungrounded. I see no electrical connection to the antenna
or cabling, though I can't see what's in the wall.

I tested nearly all the house outlets with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all tested correct, hot/neutral are not reversed, no other
faults, all are 125V hot to ground, 0V neutral to ground. Only
two-prong appliances give a voltage reading, nothing off grounded
appliances. I tested the TV, VCR, DVD and mixer unconnected to each
other, and each on several different circuits.

Results, at various multitester AC voltage range settings:

MIXER:
range mixer off mixer on
250V ~30V 25V
250/2V* ~30V 25V+
50V 7V 7V
10V ~1.5V ~1.5V
[*250 divided by 2 = 125 range. Meter needle is in near identical
position on the 250V, 50V, and 10V range readings. Readings from mixer
housing, handle, other parts.]

DVD:
250V 50V
250/2V 50V
50V ~18V
10V ~4V
[Needle in identical position on 50V & 10V readings. Same readings
with DVD on or off. Readings from housing and output jacks.]

VCR:
250V 30V+
250/2V ~32V
50V ~17V
10V 4V
[Needle almost identical position on 50V & 10V readings. Same readings
with VCR on or off. Readings from F-connector and output jacks.]

TV:
off on across night light prongs
250V 75V 100V ~45V
250/2V 75V 100V ~40V
50V ~46V pegs 35V
10V pegs pegs pegs
[Readings from various TV connectors/jacks. I didn't test night light
with TV on.]

I'm sceptical of some of these readings because the needle is in the
same position. But I also don't know what that means.

We bought this 12 year old house 5 years ago, so newish wiring and
AFAIK no DIY hackers fiddling with it like in the old houses I've
owned ;-). We had an addition, with subpanel, put on 4 years ago. I've
done little wiring on this house myself, other than adding one outlet,
replacing some switches and light fixtures, and all seem okay far as I
can tell. We had DSL installed a few months ago. There's nothing else
unusual electrically, that I can tell. Lights don't blink or burn out,
all appliances and electronics work properly.

The main panel and subpanel look right to me. I have some idea what's
what as I've done some wiring before including running new circuits,
though not in this house, but since I don't understand this problem I
don't know just what to look for. I can't be sure, but I think this
started recently, when the antenna reception started flaking. But I
can't be sure since I never thought to test voltage on appliances
before :-).

I just got home from work. While we wait for the electrician I'll try
testing with appliances and circuits turned off and on.

Any other thoughts, suggestions, or other questions? Thanks!

--
Luke
  #52   Report Post  
Pop
 
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You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


As I stated, that depends. Sorry, see nothing to respond to there.


  #53   Report Post  
Pop
 
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--
Let someone else do it
I'm retired!
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:50:30 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Luke" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:44:49 GMT,
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.

I'll ignore the personal attacks ;-). I know I'm beyond my abilities
on this, which is why I asked, and as you suggest I was going to call
an electrician first thing tomorrow morning. Just curious, what's a
"lifted" ground or neutral, and why do all other appliances (computer,
clocks, radio, etc.) seem to work okay?

--
Luke

This is Turtle.

Paul Milligan above here telling of hacks is nothing but a air
condtioner
software salesman and has not a clue as to what your problem is. The
only
120 volt item that he may work on is his razar to shave with in the
morning when it will not run. Now he does know a bunch about software to
tell about air conditioners and heating system as to what size you would
need to install. I one of the so call hacks he speaks of have held
Electrican licences for over 30 years and in the hvac business for over
40
years. Also i run my own hvac business and all paul runs is his head.
Watch who you listen to on the newsgroups.

TURTLE

Good advice. But, whenever a person wishes to call in a contractor, I
would
never recommend against it. The only real problem here is the buffoon
with
his egocentric mouth-hole in gear without a running motor to drive it.
Concensus usually wins out with most posters, so one of that ilk only
causes a little momentary stress. It's also possible he's right but he's
bypassing the simple things that might easily determine that an
electrician
isn't needed, and that it won't take digging into anything more than a
light
bulb or resistor to measure across in order to see what kind of current
might be there.
Besides that, he probably enjoys flames because he gets to show off the
vocabulary his father taught him.
Pop


Actually, it was your mother.

Moron.


I heard it was actually my father and your mother.

Moronic idiot.


  #54   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:50:19 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:


You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


As I stated, that depends.


No, it doesn't 'depend' at all. He needs a qualified
electrician, not your long distance guesses and a light bulb.

Sorry, see nothing to respond to there.


Then you decided to bless us with your post .... why ?

You have no answer because the only possible answer is 'Paul,
you're right', and you can't bear to say it. You'd rather post just
to throw your bull**** at me.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #55   Report Post  
Dan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:07:07 GMT,
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:50:19 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:


You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


As I stated, that depends.


No, it doesn't 'depend' at all. He needs a qualified
electrician, not your long distance guesses and a light bulb.

Sorry, see nothing to respond to there.


Then you decided to bless us with your post .... why ?

You have no answer because the only possible answer is 'Paul,
you're right', and you can't bear to say it. You'd rather post just
to throw your bull**** at me.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/


If you've had the patience to read through all the character
assasination and BS on this thread, I'm going to offer that if you
have enough current to feel it, you've got a real problem that should
be addressed. My long distance diagnosis would be a bad ground
connection at the main power supply or another circuit lower down,
you do need to get this fixed, it is potentially dangerous and I think
a real electrician, or the power company, should be involved, I
really wish this newsgroup didn't have to absorb the overflow of the
nastiness on HVAC,com, but that seems to be what's going on just now,

Dan


  #56   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:47:51 GMT, Dan wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:07:07 GMT,
wrote:


If you've had the patience to read through all the character
assasination and BS on this thread, I'm going to offer that if you
have enough current to feel it, you've got a real problem that should
be addressed.


Yep.

My long distance diagnosis would be a bad ground
connection at the main power supply or another circuit lower down,
you do need to get this fixed, it is potentially dangerous and I think
a real electrician, or the power company, should be involved, I
really wish this newsgroup didn't have to absorb the overflow of the
nastiness on HVAC,com, but that seems to be what's going on just now,

Dan


Gee, it seemed to me that someone calling himself 'Pop' took
it upon himself to throw 4 paragraphs of **** at me. Seems he's
home-grown right here, not alt.hvac.

It seems to me that some idjits here are trying to explain 30
V to ground on the chassis of a kitchen appliance as 'Oh, that's OK,
nothing to wory about' and 'it must be your meter' and other excuses,
where the ONLY correct, safe-for-the-OP answer is 'This may be a
serious problem, get it checked out ASAP'. Not 'go get a light bulb
and see if it lights up' or that other bull****.

Well, let me tell you - I'll never forget a service call I was
on many many years ago. Some moron had tried to 'fix' a 4-burner
electric built-in cooktop with a burnt socket by taking the wire and
using a clamp to attach it to the OUTSIDE of the burner element. This
gave the entire cooktop, including the chrome trim, 120 V to ground ,
with 40 A behind it. I found out when I leaned against it. I felt 'a
tingle', just like this guy felt ( but more so ).

I'm glad it was me instead of the 80 + year old folks living
there, cause it probably would have killed them.

Some 'expert', just like the ones that post here, had 'fixed'
it for them. And damned near killed them.

Seems there are some others here, too, that don't know
****-all about electricity, but feel it appropriate to hand out advice
to poor innocent home-owners.

And when someone calls 'bull****' on their stupidity, then
they start handing out all kinds of personal crap.

And it grew right here, it didn't just blow in on the wind
last week.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #57   Report Post  
w_tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Where you find voltage, then switch the multimeter to
current. That number is also important. For example, if the
meter measures microamps, well that typically is not enough to
be a danger but would also not cause 'wet finger tingle'.
Milliamps or (real bad) amps of AC current tell you more.
Based upon what that meter is doing, the current leakage is
probably in the milliamp range.

Unfortunately, your meter sounds like something that has no
current readings. Therefore put a 100 or 1000 ohm resistor
between those meter probes and measure AC voltage again (do
voltage for both resistors). With Ohm's law, leakage current
is calculated. Resistor (and alligator test leads) also
available at Radio Shack. (Good move to avoid those posting
insults without including supporting numbers. Posting without
numbers - junk scientist. Posting insults without numbers -
junk people.)

Luke wrote:
You folks (almost) sound like the US Congress ;-).

I appreciate all the responses. Thanks!

We're waiting on a call back from the electrician.

Meanwhile, some more detail:

I'm using an analog multitester (Radio Shack - Micronta). [And the wet
finger test, which gives a definite tingle/mild shock only between a
TV connector and antenna cable end or outlet screw.] It's a roof top
antenna, no cable or satellite. Results are the same with the antenna
grounded or ungrounded. I see no electrical connection to the antenna
or cabling, though I can't see what's in the wall.

I tested nearly all the house outlets with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all tested correct, hot/neutral are not reversed, no other
faults, all are 125V hot to ground, 0V neutral to ground. Only
two-prong appliances give a voltage reading, nothing off grounded
appliances. I tested the TV, VCR, DVD and mixer unconnected to each
other, and each on several different circuits.

Results, at various multitester AC voltage range settings:

MIXER:
range mixer off mixer on
250V ~30V 25V
250/2V* ~30V 25V+
50V 7V 7V
10V ~1.5V ~1.5V
[*250 divided by 2 = 125 range. Meter needle is in near identical
position on the 250V, 50V, and 10V range readings. Readings from mixer
housing, handle, other parts.]

DVD:
250V 50V
250/2V 50V
50V ~18V
10V ~4V
[Needle in identical position on 50V & 10V readings. Same readings
with DVD on or off. Readings from housing and output jacks.]

VCR:
250V 30V+
250/2V ~32V
50V ~17V
10V 4V
[Needle almost identical position on 50V & 10V readings. Same readings
with VCR on or off. Readings from F-connector and output jacks.]

TV:
off on across night light prongs
250V 75V 100V ~45V
250/2V 75V 100V ~40V
50V ~46V pegs 35V
10V pegs pegs pegs
[Readings from various TV connectors/jacks. I didn't test night light
with TV on.]

I'm sceptical of some of these readings because the needle is in the
same position. But I also don't know what that means.

We bought this 12 year old house 5 years ago, so newish wiring and
AFAIK no DIY hackers fiddling with it like in the old houses I've
owned ;-). We had an addition, with subpanel, put on 4 years ago. I've
done little wiring on this house myself, other than adding one outlet,
replacing some switches and light fixtures, and all seem okay far as I
can tell. We had DSL installed a few months ago. There's nothing else
unusual electrically, that I can tell. Lights don't blink or burn out,
all appliances and electronics work properly.

The main panel and subpanel look right to me. I have some idea what's
what as I've done some wiring before including running new circuits,
though not in this house, but since I don't understand this problem I
don't know just what to look for. I can't be sure, but I think this
started recently, when the antenna reception started flaking. But I
can't be sure since I never thought to test voltage on appliances
before :-).

I just got home from work. While we wait for the electrician I'll try
testing with appliances and circuits turned off and on.

Any other thoughts, suggestions, or other questions? Thanks!

--
Luke

  #58   Report Post  
HeyBub
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:27:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the
TV F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on
and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30
volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the
electronics. Many devices will have some leakage to them .


'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????

A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.


So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.

To see if the
device is really leaking enough current to be a hazzard to the user
you need to use a special meter or load the meter you have with a
resistor of a known value.


You are either ignorant or insane.

That is COMPLETE BULL****.

There will be no current to ground UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE
CIRCUIT WITH YOUR BODY. Then you get all twitchy, and die.

Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged
due to old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.


Then you have a short or partial short to ground ( the SS's ),
or beteeen legs ( the caps failing short ), NEITHER OF WHICH PUTS
VOLTAGE ON THE CASE OF THE MIXER IN THE KITCHEN !!!!


Sorry. You are wrong. Way wrong. Almost criminally wrong.


  #59   Report Post  
HeyBub
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Luke wrote:
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!


First, the 75V on the antenna connector COULD be correct IF the antenna is a
satellite TV antenna. Voltage actually travels the cable to drive the
circuitry in the LMB.

Second, the voltage measured here, there, and the other place is dependent
on the impedance of the meter and whether a load is active. Clamp one lead
of the meter to ground and hold the other lead between dampened fingers.
Bingo! Two to fifty volts on a sensitive meter.


  #60   Report Post  
Tekkie®
 
Posts: n/a
Default

William W. Plummer posted for all of us...


Aside from all the other suggestions, don't forget that the cable system
gets its power from the cable itself. That's on the order of 75 volts
send down the large center conductor of the cable. You might need a
visit from the Cable Guy to check it out.

i wasn't gonna get involved butttt WTF do you mean?
--

Tekkie


  #61   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:42:05 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Luke wrote:
Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the TV
F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

It's also 75 volts between the TV F-connector and the outlet ground
plug hole or outlet screw. And, there's 75 volts between any connector
on the TV and any of these grounds. I'm also getting ~40 volts off the
VCR F-connector, and ~50 volts off the DVD player *housing*.

Best I can determine this is the case with all house circuits. I
plugged the TV into several, using extension cords, and carried the
DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30 volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

I checked as many outlets as I could get to with a GB plug-in circuit
tester, and all test correct. All outlets are at 125 volts. I opened
the main panel and the one subpanel to see what I could see, and all
looked right, though I really don't know what I'm looking for here.

What would cause "hot" appliances, and how do I track this down?

Thanks!


First, the 75V on the antenna connector COULD be correct IF the antenna is a
satellite TV antenna. Voltage actually travels the cable to drive the
circuitry in the LMB.

Second, the voltage measured here, there, and the other place is dependent
on the impedance of the meter and whether a load is active. Clamp one lead
of the meter to ground and hold the other lead between dampened fingers.
Bingo! Two to fifty volts on a sensitive meter.


And on his Radio Shack POS analog ?


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #62   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:38:23 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:27:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged
due to old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.


Then you have a short or partial short to ground ( the SS's ),
or beteeen legs ( the caps failing short ), NEITHER OF WHICH PUTS
VOLTAGE ON THE CASE OF THE MIXER IN THE KITCHEN !!!!


Sorry. You are wrong. Way wrong. Almost criminally wrong.


Did it take you many years to get this stupid ? Or do you
just have a gift ?



Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #63   Report Post  
William W. Plummer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tekkie® wrote:

William W. Plummer posted for all of us...


Aside from all the other suggestions, don't forget that the cable system
gets its power from the cable itself. That's on the order of 75 volts
send down the large center conductor of the cable. You might need a
visit from the Cable Guy to check it out.


i wasn't gonna get involved butttt WTF do you mean?


All the amplifiers in a community cable distribution system get their
power from the cable itself. It is 60 Hz whereas the cable signals
are 50+ MHz and higher.
  #64   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
On 4 Apr 2005 17:24:12 GMT, Jim Yanik . wrote:

wrote in
news



What a great technical test and diagnosis.

For an unemployed plumber, maybe.



I don't see YOU offering anything better.


Then you haven't read my posts.

I gave him the best ( and only correct ) advice possible '


Snip the Bull****

This is Turtle.

You say you give this man the correct advice already but i see no post to him at
all. was you using ESP or something or dreaming again ?

TURTLE


  #65   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:27:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0600, Luke wrote:

Our TV reception, from a roof antenna, was intermittently flaky.
Trying to find the problem, I got a shock when I touched both the
TV F-connector and coax cable antenna lead. So I put a tester on
and to
my surprise got a 75 volt reading.

DVD player around to plug it into all circuits. I also get ~30
volts
off the housing of an old stand mixer in the kitchen.

This isn't normal, is it?

NO. It's dangerous. It's gonna kill someone.

Ignore the illiterate hacks Matt and Turtle aka Weasel, and
get a licensed electrician in there NOW to find out what's going on,
before it kills you. You have neither the tools nor the training to
continue.

You either have a lifted neutral, or ground, and either one
can kill you, or burn your house down.

BTW - I'm a licensed Master Electrician, unlike the plumber
and the hack mentioned above.


That is the problem, you are an electrician and not into the
electronics. Many devices will have some leakage to them .


'Splain me that kitchen mixer with the voltage on the case,
Lucy. 'Design leakage', you say ???? 30 V to ground on a kitchen
appliance ??? You figure this 'plays nice' with GFCI kitchen circuits
????? Huh ???? DO you ????

A digital voltmeter will show
high voltages but do not take into account the current.


So will an analog VOLT meter. You do know that they are both
measuring VOLTS, and neither one GIVES A RATS ASS about amps, right
??? You understand that NO VOLT METER is capable of seeing or
recognizing or reporting AMPS, right ????

BTW, 30 V and 75 V are NOT HIGH VOLTAGE.

To see if the
device is really leaking enough current to be a hazzard to the user
you need to use a special meter or load the meter you have with a
resistor of a known value.


You are either ignorant or insane.

That is COMPLETE BULL****.

There will be no current to ground UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE
CIRCUIT WITH YOUR BODY. Then you get all twitchy, and die.

Some times the capacitors and surge supressors will become damaged
due to old age or voltage surges. This can then become a big issue.


Then you have a short or partial short to ground ( the SS's ),
or beteeen legs ( the caps failing short ), NEITHER OF WHICH PUTS
VOLTAGE ON THE CASE OF THE MIXER IN THE KITCHEN !!!!


Sorry. You are wrong. Way wrong. Almost criminally wrong.


This is Turtle.

Don't rattle the resident troll like that for we will hear about it for a week
or two.

TURTLE




  #66   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
news
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:50:19 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:


You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


As I stated, that depends.


No, it doesn't 'depend' at all. He needs a qualified
electrician, not your long distance guesses and a light bulb.

Sorry, see nothing to respond to there.


Then you decided to bless us with your post .... why ?

You have no answer because the only possible answer is 'Paul,
you're right', and you can't bear to say it. You'd rather post just
to throw your bull**** at me.


This is Turtle.

OH My God, POP is one of those alt.hvac members out to get you. Ok Paul your
right and i will send a e-mail to POP to tell him that your always right and to
stop being out to get you. You know i heard that somewhere's before. '' They are
all out to get me ! ''.

TURTLE


  #67   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Luke :

Sorry to say that we are having a little problem with one or more local
trolls. It should be easy for you to ID them and ignore them.

Turtle somehow get tied up in this. He has been long known for great
advice and his gentleman manor. I suggest you ignore his responses to the
troll(s) but do listen to his advice.

Note to Turtle.

The less attention given to those who have social problems, the better.
Don't let them get you down.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit


This is Turtle.

I stand corrected for I have been a little forward the last few days. Paul must
not have took his medications and i had to answer his attacks. I'll have to tone
it down.

TURTLE


  #68   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:23:21 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Luke :

Sorry to say that we are having a little problem with one or more local
trolls. It should be easy for you to ID them and ignore them.

Turtle somehow get tied up in this. He has been long known for great
advice and his gentleman manor.


And for a complete lack of understanding of basic electricity.


This is Turtle.

Yes Paul after 40 something years in the hvac business, I still have not learn
about Lesstricity. Does owning my own business for the last 25 year count ? OK I
don't know anything Paul.

TURTLE


  #69   Report Post  
Lifer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

when u got bs to toss, where do u throw it. at the pile of bull****, of
course.


wrote in message
news
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:50:19 -0400, "Pop"
wrote:


You're right, if it's induced, it's still not 'right' but it's
not going to kill anyone or start a fire. But what if it's not ?
And, given his admittedly limited electrical ability and understanding
( he's done well so far, to do the tests he did, and to know to ask ),
who do you figure is qualified to see what's actually going on ? Him
with a light bulb guided by your long distance guesses, or an
electrician ?


As I stated, that depends.


No, it doesn't 'depend' at all. He needs a qualified
electrician, not your long distance guesses and a light bulb.

Sorry, see nothing to respond to there.


Then you decided to bless us with your post .... why ?

You have no answer because the only possible answer is 'Paul,
you're right', and you can't bear to say it. You'd rather post just
to throw your bull**** at me.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



  #70   Report Post  
Mark
 
Posts: n/a
Default

most of the meter readings indicate that you are measuring low level
leakage current which will tickle a wet finger and is normal.

The capacitance beween the motor windings and the shell of a mixer can
casue this.

The avaialble is very low and even the current needed for the meter
reduces the avaiable voltage. This casues the numerical reading to
change when you change scales on the meter, i.e. the pointer does not
move much but the corresponding reading does change. This is a classic
indication of very low current, like leakage current and is probably
normal.

If you had a real problem and put wet fingers across it, you would feel
it very strongly and you meter would peg on the 10V

The TV readings seem high.
I don't unerstand your readings for the TV and "across night light
prongs? What does that mean?




Mark



  #71   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On 5 Apr 2005 11:50:10 -0700, "Mark" wrote:

most of the meter readings indicate that you are measuring low level
leakage current which will tickle a wet finger and is normal.


You figure it's 'normal' to walk into your kitchen, put a wet
hand on an appliance, and get shocked ?

The first two parts I can understand - walking - that's OK -
getting your hands wet in the kitchen - that's pretty normal .... but
you figure IT'S NORMAL TO GET AN ELECTRICAL SHOCK FROM TOUCHING YOUR
TOASTER OR MIXER OR WHATEVER ?????

What IN THE **** is your problem, asshole ????

If you can't give any better advice than that, you need to SIT
THE **** DOWN AND SHUT THE **** UP BEFORE YOU GET SOMEONE KILLED
!!!!!!

{ snip the rest of his bull**** }


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

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  #72   Report Post  
Tekkie®
 
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William W. Plummer posted for all of us...

Tekkie=AE wrote:
=20
William W. Plummer posted for all of us...
=20
=20
Aside from all the other suggestions, don't forget that the cable syste=

m=20
gets its power from the cable itself. That's on the order of 75 volt=

s=20
send down the large center conductor of the cable. You might need a=

=20
visit from the Cable Guy to check it out.

=20
i wasn't gonna get involved butttt WTF do you mean?

=20
All the amplifiers in a community cable distribution system get their=20
power from the cable itself. It is 60 Hz whereas the cable signals=20
are 50+ MHz and higher.
=20

Well, I'm dubious about this too... but 75 Volts?? Nah & now you are talkin=
g=20
frequency. So let us know what you are asserting here... volt amps=20
frequency pick one then stick with it.=20
--=20

Tekkie
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Mark
 
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Luke,

were you also getting a mild shock from the mixer or just from the TV
connector?

Mark

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pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On 5 Apr 2005 19:29:51 -0700, "Mark" wrote:

Luke,

were you also getting a mild shock from the mixer or just from the TV
connector?

Mark



The hell difference does it make ?

You're not supposed to get shocked from ANYTHING, ANY
appliance or device, period, in your home.

There ain't on arguing about it. It's the facts. You can
argue / guess all you want about the possible causes, but you're not
supposed to get an electrical shock from anything in your residence,
ever, and that's just the way it is.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #75   Report Post  
William W. Plummer
 
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Tekkie® wrote:

William W. Plummer posted for all of us...


Tekkie® wrote:


William W. Plummer posted for all of us...



Aside from all the other suggestions, don't forget that the cable system
gets its power from the cable itself. That's on the order of 75 volts
send down the large center conductor of the cable. You might need a
visit from the Cable Guy to check it out.


i wasn't gonna get involved butttt WTF do you mean?


All the amplifiers in a community cable distribution system get their
power from the cable itself. It is 60 Hz whereas the cable signals
are 50+ MHz and higher.


Well, I'm dubious about this too... but 75 Volts?? Nah & now you are talking
frequency. So let us know what you are asserting here... volt amps
frequency pick one then stick with it.

TROLL


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pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:40:13 -0500, John Willis
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:37:46 GMT,
scribbled this interesting note:

There ain't on arguing about it. It's the facts. You can
argue / guess all you want about the possible causes, but you're not
supposed to get an electrical shock from anything in your residence,
ever, and that's just the way it is.


Not even static shock from the carpet on cold, dry days???


Not by design intent, anyway :-)


Click every day here to feed an animal !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #80   Report Post  
Luke
 
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As some of you suspected it's my analog volt meter. If I had
understood the meter could give false voltage readings, I would have
mentioned which meter I was using in my first post, though I did
mention it later. The electrician checked the house wiring and there's
nothing wrong. The only suspect is possibly the TV tuner, so the next
step is to maybe contact a TV repair. One positive thing out of this
is I found a very good electrician, after one guy never returned the
phone call and another one failed to show when promised.

Anyway, thanks, and as the late great Emily Litella said: Nevermind!

Cheers!

--
Luke
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