Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

My wife and I have just moved into a rental appartment. I didn't
notice until after we moved that there are no grounded outlets
available. I'm a programmer by trade and I make heavy use of fairly
expensive computer equipment so I was a bit concerned. I informed my
landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

Now I've been doing a lot of research the last week on the subject but
it seems to me that using GFCI receptacles does not do much to protect
my computer equipment against surges for the following reasons:

1. Static electricity buildups in the computer has no "outlet" and can
either fry the circuitry or create a shock hazard.

2. This I didn't read from a user group but kind of deduced from
reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could
occur, fry your circuitry, then go to your neutral without causing an
imbalance between the two. Any electricians out there please verify
this.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord
will only follow the advice of this electrician, who will not advise
otherwise than to use a GFCI.

I've talked to my landlord and he will not install grounding even if I
pay for it. He pretty much told me that I should move out if I don't
like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead of
grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid. I
live in Hawaii if that helps.
I appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Jim wrote:
Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

GFCIs are considered by the NEC to be acceptable substitutes
for a grounded circuit for puposes of protecting people from
electrocution. A GFCI does not provide a ground when none is
present.

reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could

You have the basic idea of how a GFCI works correct.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord

Find a better electrician. Unless there is already a ground wire
in the outlet box (and there might be, have you checked?) the GFCI
will not be grounded any more than the old outlet is. If there
is a ground wire present, then installing regular grounded outlets
would be simple enough. Has anyone looked?

like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead of
grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid. I

Grounding can be useful, but you do seem a bit paranoid about it.
I've ran an old IBM PC on ungrounded outlets for several years
and never had a problem, except a modem card went out during
a thunderstorm, and that was due to a phone line surge, not power.
Do you get a lot of thunder storms? Does this cause power
fluctuations? If not, then I would probably not worry too
much.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

"Jim" wrote:
Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

My wife and I have just moved into a rental appartment. I didn't
notice until after we moved that there are no grounded outlets
available. I'm a programmer by trade and I make heavy use of fairly
expensive computer equipment so I was a bit concerned. I informed my
landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

Now I've been doing a lot of research the last week on the subject but
it seems to me that using GFCI receptacles does not do much to protect
my computer equipment against surges for the following reasons:

1. Static electricity buildups in the computer has no "outlet" and can
either fry the circuitry or create a shock hazard.

2. This I didn't read from a user group but kind of deduced from
reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could
occur, fry your circuitry, then go to your neutral without causing an
imbalance between the two. Any electricians out there please verify
this.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord
will only follow the advice of this electrician, who will not advise
otherwise than to use a GFCI.

I've talked to my landlord and he will not install grounding even if I
pay for it. He pretty much told me that I should move out if I don't
like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead of
grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid. I
live in Hawaii if that helps.
I appreciate any help you guys can give me.

The earth ground is mostly a safety issue -- it results in a blown fuse /
tripped breaker in the event that a live conductor contacts the case (instead of
resulting in a case energized at line voltage) . A GFCI will mostly mitigate
the safety problem -- the GFCI should trip if someone touches the energized
case.

As far as surge protection goes, there are many surge protectors (usually as a
part of a UPS package) that will operate fine without a ground. Many of the
cheapie "surge protectors" *do* require a ground, 'tho, so read carefully.

As far as the need for surge protection goes, it really depends on your
environment. Back when I lived in the Midwest (land of the monster
thunderstorm), I typically used surge protectors. In Idaho, I don't waste my
time. If Hawaii gets some good, nasty thunderstorms, it'd probably be a
worthwhile investment.

In Taiwan we lived in an apartment with a two-wire electrical system run
in plastic conduit, and with plastic water pipes as well.

Despite the total inability to ground anything, our computers seemed to
survive OK.

Perce


On 12/09/04 02:45 pm Jim tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

My wife and I have just moved into a rental appartment. I didn't
notice until after we moved that there are no grounded outlets
available. I'm a programmer by trade and I make heavy use of fairly
expensive computer equipment so I was a bit concerned. I informed my
landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

Now I've been doing a lot of research the last week on the subject but
it seems to me that using GFCI receptacles does not do much to protect
my computer equipment against surges for the following reasons:

1. Static electricity buildups in the computer has no "outlet" and can
either fry the circuitry or create a shock hazard.

2. This I didn't read from a user group but kind of deduced from
reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could
occur, fry your circuitry, then go to your neutral without causing an
imbalance between the two. Any electricians out there please verify
this.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord
will only follow the advice of this electrician, who will not advise
otherwise than to use a GFCI.

I've talked to my landlord and he will not install grounding even if I
pay for it. He pretty much told me that I should move out if I don't
like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead of
grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid. I
live in Hawaii if that helps.
I appreciate any help you guys can give me.

You have been provided a combination of myths and truths
combined with a mentality that 'it worked before, therefore it
will always work'. Proper grounding for all buildings has
been necessary for 30 years - due to something very new called
transistors.

Primary reason for that third prong is why its called safety
ground. Any short that would threaten human life must instead
trip a circuit breaker. Two wire outlets do not provide that
protection. For human safety on two wire circuits (a kludge
solution), we install a GFCI that must also be specifically
labeled as such on each wall receptacle with three words as
required by the code book - "No Equipment Ground".

Safety ground also serves other functions. For some
electronic equipment, it carries off leakage currents. A
GFCIed two wire circuit will not do that. If two three wire
appliances don't share the same three wire ground pin, then
damage may result. This was why mechanical switch boxes (one
computer shares multiple printers) damaged HP LaserJet II
printers. Second lesser reason for grounding involves how
electronic hardware operates with attached components. Safety
ground provides a common voltage reference so that electronics
is not damaged by voltage leakages.

To solve this 'leakage' problem, all computer components
(computer, monitor, printer) must connect to same $3+ power
strip (and not a surge protector strip) that includes an all
so important 15 amp circuit breaker. Every power strip must
have that circuit breaker. Then the power strip connects to a
GFCIed wall receptacle. We have addressed human safety and
transistor safety problems created by two wire outlets.

Static electricity is not eliminated by earth ground.
Static is electric charges on both sides of shoes. To
discharge that 'capacitor', make a complete circuit - as
taught in second grade science. The complete and destructive
circuit through computer may be up arm, through computer, out
via table top or AC electric wire, into carpet, and back to
shoe. This circuit does not go through transistors if using
static protective wrist straps. Things considered not
conductive at 100 volts can be conductive at 15,000 volts.
Conductive items include some wall paints and linoleum. So
where is earth ground in this circuit? Not part of the
discharge circuit for static electricity.

Wall receptacle is too far from earth ground to provide
surge protection. This made woefully obvious once one
calculates wire impedances. Also demonstrated by application
notes from 'real world' surge protector manufacturers. This
'no earth ground available' problem is why plug-in protectors
quietly don't even claim to protect from the typically
destructive surge - and yet charge $15 or $50 per protected
appliance.

Even two wire only homes can have effective protection
installed for about $1 per protected appliance. That means a
breaker box earth ground must be upgraded to meet post 1990
NEC requirements AND a 'whole house' protector connects every
incoming AC wire less than 10 feet to that earth ground.
Notice the phrase 'less than 10 feet' - quite significant.
There is no way around this fact. A surge protector is only
as effective as its earth ground. And wall receptacle safety
grounds do not provide an effective earth ground.

For about $1 per protected appliance, this 'whole house'
protector can be installed to provide missing surge
protection. If the earth ground rod (from breaker box) is
installed to meet post 1990 code requirements (and to make
surge protection possible), then a telephone wire 'whole
house' protector (installed free by your telco) and the CATV
wire also must make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to that
same earth ground before entering your building. Just more
simpler solutions to provide effective surge protection for
your computer.

Detailed concepts of household grounding are explained in a
recent post in the newsgroup sci.electronics.misc on 7 Dec
2004 entitled "Does the earth "complete the circuit" to become
ground? " at
http://tinyurl.com/439ff

Your bottom line: Unlike other posts, this one describes
requirements, code upgrades, historical example of failures
and why they happened, technical concepts, and the numerous
types of grounds. IOW some responses only reiterated urban
myths - made obvious by a lack of 'why and how'. It would be
nicer to have three wire receptacles. But posted are less
expensive and more effective solutions to a bad problem - for
both human safety and transistor safety reasons.

Jim wrote:
Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

My wife and I have just moved into a rental appartment. I didn't
notice until after we moved that there are no grounded outlets
available. I'm a programmer by trade and I make heavy use of fairly
expensive computer equipment so I was a bit concerned. I informed my
landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

Now I've been doing a lot of research the last week on the subject but
it seems to me that using GFCI receptacles does not do much to protect
my computer equipment against surges for the following reasons:

1. Static electricity buildups in the computer has no "outlet" and
can either fry the circuitry or create a shock hazard.

2. This I didn't read from a user group but kind of deduced from
reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could
occur, fry your circuitry, then go to your neutral without causing an
imbalance between the two. Any electricians out there please verify
this.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord
will only follow the advice of this electrician, who will not advise
otherwise than to use a GFCI.

I've talked to my landlord and he will not install grounding even if
I pay for it. He pretty much told me that I should move out if I
don't like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead
of grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid.
I live in Hawaii if that helps. I appreciate any help you guys can
give me.

With expensive high end computers, grounding is very important to avoid
having various boards burn out and a lot of down time. Many good UPS's won't
work properly without a ground.

Personally, I would rig up a short extension cord with grounded outlets on
one end and a 2 prong plug on the other end, with a stranded green ground
wire extended from the cord over to the next best grounding source. It may
not be fully legal according to the code, but if it provides a suitable
ground where there isn't a legal one it may have to suffice. It will take
some testing to find a suitable ground source. It may be a metal water
pipe -- but don't trust it without testing, or any metal that is attached to
the building frame or building re-rods in the concrete. This could be the
balcony railing, or even a metal door frame, again test first. Another
ground source may be your fuse or breaker box, if you have one in your unit,
again test first. You may also be able to sneak a wire down the outside of
the building and clamp onto a good ground or punch in a ground bar (this may
be difficult to do without being obvious). You may also have to be creative
in routing the ground wire in relationship to doors and other obstructions.

"Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all, this is my first post on these groups so please be gentle =).

My wife and I have just moved into a rental appartment. I didn't
notice until after we moved that there are no grounded outlets
available. I'm a programmer by trade and I make heavy use of fairly
expensive computer equipment so I was a bit concerned. I informed my
landlord of my concern and he consulted his electritian who suggested
that GFCI receptacles be installed.

Now I've been doing a lot of research the last week on the subject but
it seems to me that using GFCI receptacles does not do much to protect
my computer equipment against surges for the following reasons:

1. Static electricity buildups in the computer has no "outlet" and can
either fry the circuitry or create a shock hazard.

2. This I didn't read from a user group but kind of deduced from
reading descriptions of GFCI receptacles, I may be wrong - A GFCI will
not protect your equipment from a surge simply because it works by
monitoring the difference between the hot and neutral. A surge could
occur, fry your circuitry, then go to your neutral without causing an
imbalance between the two. Any electricians out there please verify
this.

Now I spoke to the electrician and he first told me that I don't need
grounding, just a surge protector. When I informed him that I have
done research and that surge protectors use grounding to work, he
switched his story and said that the GFCI is grounded. The landlord
will only follow the advice of this electrician, who will not advise
otherwise than to use a GFCI.

I've talked to my landlord and he will not install grounding even if I
pay for it. He pretty much told me that I should move out if I don't
like it. That brings me to my question. Is using GFCI instead of
grounding that big of a problem? Am I overreacting? Moving is a
hassle and I don't want to resort to it if i'm just being paranoid. I
live in Hawaii if that helps.
I appreciate any help you guys can give me.

In article , wrote:

If there
is a ground wire present, then installing regular grounded outlets
would be simple enough. Has anyone looked?

Not quite.

If there is a ground wire present, *and* it is properly connected to a proper
ground at its opposite end, then installing regular grounded outlets is a
simple solution to the problem. Just because there's a ground wire visible in
the box does *not* mean that the wire is actually grounded.

the wires are probably in a metal conduit in a metal box. The box is
grounded. Put your new outlets on and run a wire to the box as the
ground, problem sovled.

Good Luck

If you're really serious about proper grounding and
avoiding "ground loops", then add a ground wire
to the SINGLE POINT of power entry to the computers:
the UPS, power strip, etc.
A wire to a cold water pipe ought to suffice (if metal pipes),
else run a wire to a grounded stake.
Ham Radio folks ought to know all about proper grounding.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I now know that the outlets are not
grounded. I borrowed a friend's device which determines this and used
it.

I really can't do anything which involves running a wire to a pipe. My
landlord lives right behind me and has warned me that he will not
accept anything unless it is approved and done by his electrician.

Andy you mentioned that there are UPS packages that can provide
protection. Could you point me to one of these? I haven't had any
luck finding any.

I would say that we get maybe 3-4 storms a year...not sure if thats
considered a lot as I've never lived outside hawaii. We have tiled
floors so I guess building up static while walking is less likely? I
can tell you that within the last year (at my old appartment which is
only a few blocks from this one), I've had at least one occurence of
the power blinking out or dimming...which I'm guessing are signs of a
surge.

Now I know that many of you have replied with suggestions and have
answered my question, I appreciate your time very much and I really
want to hear from as many sources as I can get before making this
decision.

I guess I could pose the question this way. If you had $2000 worth of
computer equipment and got 3-4 storms a year, would you risk running it
on ungrounded outlets? Or would you rather move?

Thanks again,
Jim

You say the outlet is not grounded, but is the box the outlet is in
grounded. Most older houses have metal outlet boxes that are grounded,
simply because they are connected to the metal conduit that the wires
are wrapped in. Hope you checked that. My house is a hundred years
old and the outlets are old two prong, but the box is grounded, so I
just put a 3 prong in and grounded to the box.

Steve
Jim wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys, I now know that the outlets are not
grounded. I borrowed a friend's device which determines this and
used
it.

I really can't do anything which involves running a wire to a pipe.
My
landlord lives right behind me and has warned me that he will not
accept anything unless it is approved and done by his electrician.

Andy you mentioned that there are UPS packages that can provide
protection. Could you point me to one of these? I haven't had any
luck finding any.

I would say that we get maybe 3-4 storms a year...not sure if thats
considered a lot as I've never lived outside hawaii. We have tiled
floors so I guess building up static while walking is less likely? I
can tell you that within the last year (at my old appartment which is
only a few blocks from this one), I've had at least one occurence of
the power blinking out or dimming...which I'm guessing are signs of a
surge.

Now I know that many of you have replied with suggestions and have
answered my question, I appreciate your time very much and I really
want to hear from as many sources as I can get before making this
decision.

I guess I could pose the question this way. If you had $2000 worth
of
computer equipment and got 3-4 storms a year, would you risk running
it
on ungrounded outlets? Or would you rather move?

Thanks again,
Jim

Connecting to metal pipes for a ground is wrong, a code
violation, dangerous, and simply not acceptable. Of the many
suggestions (some do violate code), only this one is so wrong
as to require a response. Grounding to dump electricity into a
cold water pipe is absolutely not recommended.

Jeff Jonas wrote:
If you're really serious about proper grounding and
avoiding "ground loops", then add a ground wire
to the SINGLE POINT of power entry to the computers:
the UPS, power strip, etc.
A wire to a cold water pipe ought to suffice (if metal pipes),
else run a wire to a grounded stake.
Ham Radio folks ought to know all about proper grounding.

UPS that provides protection are typically building wide
solutions. Why? They include a 'less than 10 foot'
connection to central earth ground. They use same concepts
that keep telephones and emergency response centers working
during direct strikes from thunderstorms. Earthing is the
protection. A protector simply connects an incoming utility
wire to earth ground during the transient. A protector does
not stop what miles of sky could not. Again, the protector -
a shunt mode device - is only as effective as its earth
ground.

Some people make technical decisions based upon word
association. When the UPS or power strip manufacturer claims
to protect from one type of transient, that is translated into
protection from all types of transients. Science based upon
subjective word interpretation is not valid. Without numbers
unique for each type of transient, instead assume the
protector protects from only one transient that typically does
not exist.

Most every plug-in UPS uses the same protector circuit found
in power strip protectors. UPS does nothing better than a
power strip. And both don't make the necessary earth ground -
even if it is a three wire plug. No earth ground means no
effective protection - which is why the much less expensive
protector in a breaker box is recommended.

Get a 'whole house' protector from Home Depot. Have
electrician install that in breaker box. He can also install
a GFCI at same time. The protector costs less than any UPS as
well as makes the necessary connection to earth ground.
Intermatic IG1240RC is one example. Significant hardware
protection typically at a cost of about $1 per protected
appliance.

There is no miracle in plug-in UPSes. But numerous myths
exist. Some background information: "Power Surge" on 29 Sept
2003 in the newsgroup alt.comp.hardware at
http://tinyurl.com/p1rk

Grounded or ungrounded outlets make absolutely no difference
to surge protection. Grounding at the service entrance is
critical. Further details in "Pull the wall plug or not?"
in nz.comp on 7 Sept 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/5ttwl

Jim wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys, I now know that the outlets are not
grounded. I borrowed a friend's device which determines this and used
it.

I really can't do anything which involves running a wire to a pipe. My
landlord lives right behind me and has warned me that he will not
accept anything unless it is approved and done by his electrician.

Andy you mentioned that there are UPS packages that can provide
protection. Could you point me to one of these? I haven't had any
luck finding any.

I would say that we get maybe 3-4 storms a year...not sure if thats
considered a lot as I've never lived outside hawaii. We have tiled
floors so I guess building up static while walking is less likely? I
can tell you that within the last year (at my old appartment which is
only a few blocks from this one), I've had at least one occurence of
the power blinking out or dimming...which I'm guessing are signs of a
surge.

Now I know that many of you have replied with suggestions and have
answered my question, I appreciate your time very much and I really
want to hear from as many sources as I can get before making this
decision.

I guess I could pose the question this way. If you had $2000 worth of
computer equipment and got 3-4 storms a year, would you risk running it
on ungrounded outlets? Or would you rather move?

In article .com, wrote:
the wires are probably in a metal conduit in a metal box. The box is
grounded. Put your new outlets on and run a wire to the box as the
ground, problem sovled.

Perhaps you should stick to giving advice on matters that you actually know
something about.

This ASSumption is *totally* unjustified by the facts presented, and it's
probably wrong. If the home was built within the last fifteen or twenty years,
there's a strong probability that the boxes are plastic, not metal. And it's
actually *very* rare in residential construction for wiring to be run inside
metal conduit.

That said, though... it was common practice, years ago, when wiring metal
boxes with Romex, to strip the grounding conductor back out of the cable
sheath, and terminate it to one of the clamp screws on the *outside* of the
box. No grounding wire would be visible inside the box, and yet the box was
grounded.

Bottom line: don't ASSume when dealing with electricity. FIND OUT.

In article .com, wrote:
You say the outlet is not grounded, but is the box the outlet is in
grounded. Most older houses have metal outlet boxes that are grounded,

False. Some do, some don't.

simply because they are connected to the metal conduit that the wires
are wrapped in. Hope you checked that. My house is a hundred years
old and the outlets are old two prong, but the box is grounded, so I
just put a 3 prong in and grounded to the box.

You can't ASSume that the box is grounded.

If his house has 2 prong outlets then it wasn't built in the last 15
years! He has the test equipment from a neighbor so he will certainly
test it. The question is did he know what to test for? Testing the
outlet is not enough, he needed to test the wires and the box.
Get a life.

"Jim" wrote:
...
Andy you mentioned that there are UPS packages that can provide
protection. Could you point me to one of these? I haven't had any
luck finding any.

...

I would say that we get maybe 3-4 storms a year...not sure if thats
considered a lot as I've never lived outside hawaii. We have tiled
floors so I guess building up static while walking is less likely? I
can tell you that within the last year (at my old appartment which is
only a few blocks from this one), I've had at least one occurence of
the power blinking out or dimming...which I'm guessing are signs of a
surge.

...

I guess I could pose the question this way. If you had $2000 worth of
computer equipment and got 3-4 storms a year, would you risk running it
on ungrounded outlets? Or would you rather move?

Pretty much anything in the APC line would work OK. While they certainly would
prefer that you run with a ground, from a functionality standpoint is ain't
necessary. From their website:

begin quote

Question
What are the grounding requirements for APC products?

Answer
Although the Surge Arrest, Surge Station, Back-UPS, Back-UPS Pro, Smart-UPS,
Smart-UPS V/S, and Matrix-UPS products will appear to work properly without a
ground, APC always recommends that these units are grounded properly. Grounding
is not for functionality, but rather for safety. Numerous issues are involved
when there is no ground, including potential for electric shock, signal
attenuation, and unpredictable operation. Therefore, APC does not support using
these products in any ungrounded application, even with an earth leakage monitor
or other such device in place to alarm in case of excess current or drop in
resistance.

Background: Earth leakage monitors measure the resistance between phase (hot)
and any current-carrying component to ensure that resistance remains high.
Leakage current is typically measured by breaking the ground connection back to
the mains and inserting a specific load that simulates a person interrupting the
ground. Devices without a ground are highly insulated, and therefore the missing
ground is not an issue during normal operation. However, were the device to
become energized due to a fault or failure, it would look for a way to deflect
the current to ground. Without a ground present, the current would take the path
of least resistance. This would be hazardous as the return path may be through
the load itself, a data line, or even a person.

In 120 Vac environments, each electrical device must reference the same ground
which originates at the main service panel. Additionally, a properly grounded
chassis acts as a filter against EMI/RFI interference. If this ground reference
were missing, the EMI/RFI interference may result in erratic behavior of the
device.

Certain types of data communication systems require a reference to ground.
Additionally, some data lines use the ground as a shield against noise. RS-232,
and other data cables, rely on ground to provide a return reference for the
signal (although this is not the case with isolated data systems such as
Ethernet). Without a ground, the signal will attenuate

end quote

OTOH, 3-4 storms a year ain't much in my book -- we probably get that many in
Idaho (with plenty of power outages and sags / surges in between). I run many
thousands of dollars worth of equipment without worrying about surge protection.
Just keep up the backups -- the data on the drives is pretty much always worth a
lot more than the hardware.

Now, back when I lived in the Midwest, we typically had *serious* thunderstorms
at least once a week all summer long (with nearby groundstrikes happening all
the time). There, protection was seriously warranted (and I still occasionally
lost equipment).

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote:

If there
is a ground wire present, then installing regular grounded outlets
would be simple enough. Has anyone looked?

Not quite.

If there is a ground wire present, *and* it is properly connected to a proper
ground at its opposite end, then installing regular grounded outlets is a
simple solution to the problem. Just because there's a ground wire visible in
the box does *not* mean that the wire is actually grounded.

True enough. It seems unlikely that there would be a ground wire in
all the outlet boxes without them being grounded, but yes, it should
be checked. Preferrably by a different electrician than the one
the landlord sent around.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote:

If there
is a ground wire present, then installing regular grounded outlets
would be simple enough. Has anyone looked?

Not quite.

If there is a ground wire present, *and* it is properly connected to a proper

ground at its opposite end, then installing regular grounded outlets is a
simple solution to the problem. Just because there's a ground wire visible in

the box does *not* mean that the wire is actually grounded.

True enough. It seems unlikely that there would be a ground wire in
all the outlet boxes without them being grounded, but yes, it should
be checked. Preferrably by a different electrician than the one
the landlord sent around.

All it takes is for one meathead, one time, to replace a receptacle without
reconnecting the ground wires properly, and all the downstream receptacles are
no longer grounded. I've seen that just a few times too many, to be willing to
make any assumptions about what's connected and what's not.

"Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...

Andy you mentioned that there are UPS packages that can provide
protection. Could you point me to one of these? I haven't had any
luck finding any.

All big box computer stores sell UPSs.
Mine are made by APC.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)