Hello all,

We looked at a old stone house, built in 1920s, in Bergen county, NJ,
and fell in love with it. It's just beautiful! Huge family room with a
fireplace, dining room, beautiful breakfast nook, kitchen, sun room
and a library on lower level. 3 BRs on top, and a large (for this
area) piece of property. A good amount of the lower level is stone,
rest of lower level and upper level has cedar shakes.

Anyway, before I jump and make an offer I plan to get it inspected.
The house was rented for a long and has suffered neglect. The owner
had asked someone to care for the house and it wasn't. The owner is
trying to fix soem of the problems.
Some problems I noticed during my walk through-
- damp and unfinished basement. No floor, just dirt. I was told
dampness is due to gutters not having leaders to divert warer away
from house. They were recently installed.
- Minor leakage on family room ceiling. Roof on the FR does not have
steep enough slope (me thinks) and with all the snow in NJ during last
2 yrs, it possibly leaked in.
- Old, original windows in fair to bad shape.
- Old dark cedar shake shingle siding. Don't know how old.
- No central air.
- Some minor work needed on mortar.

Some good things -
- Didn't notice termite damage (doesn't mean it's not there)
- Didn't notice any othere water leaks (didn't get to check the attic
yet)
- House "feels" solid, no spongy floors, etc.

Anyway, I would like to hear your experiences, word of wisdom and
caution!

Thanks in advance.

Raj

"Raj" wrote in message
om...
Anyway, before I jump and make an offer I plan to get it inspected.

I'm just curious if this is order of actions is typical of your area? In my
area (CT) typically you make the offer (with the inspection and financing
clauses), negotiating happens, the bid is signed, THEN you do the
inspection. More negotiations may ensue depending on the results of the
inspection.

I can't imagine that I would want to pay for the inspection before I knew
that they would accept my bid. What happens if you pay for the inspection,
then another bid is presented before you make yours? Seems to me like its
more of a risk for losing your $350 or whatever your inspection cost, and
someone could scoop the house out from under you that way.

In NY the "bid" that's signed is usually the contract. It has the clauses
about financing, inspection, closings, etc........In order to get that
contract, you'll end up paying the legal fee to your lawyer for review, etc.
and still have to pay the inspection fee. And bear in mind that once the
seller signs that document, the house is now off the market. Few sellers
want their houses off the market without knowing that the sale is absolutely
going to happen - which means that few sellers want to see contingency
clauses other than financing. From a seller's point of view, why remove a
house from the market pending an inspection? In this seller's market most
sellers want the house inspected before a contract is signed. From a buyer's
point of view it's best to know what problems might be encountered before
paying a lawyer to negotiate and review the contract. I'd rather be out the
inspection fee than the lawyer's fee.





"Raj" wrote in message
om...
Anyway, before I jump and make an offer I plan to get it inspected.

I'm just curious if this is order of actions is typical of your area? In
my
area (CT) typically you make the offer (with the inspection and financing
clauses), negotiating happens, the bid is signed, THEN you do the
inspection. More negotiations may ensue depending on the results of the
inspection.

I can't imagine that I would want to pay for the inspection before I knew
that they would accept my bid. What happens if you pay for the
inspection,
then another bid is presented before you make yours? Seems to me like its
more of a risk for losing your $350 or whatever your inspection cost, and
someone could scoop the house out from under you that way.

(Raj) wrote in message news:

Some problems I noticed during my walk through-
- damp and unfinished basement. No floor, just dirt. I was told
dampness is due to gutters not having leaders to divert warer away
from house. They were recently installed.

Dirt-floor cellars are gonna be damp...period. Depending on how tight
the foundation is, you -might- be able to put in a cement floor and
reduce the dampness, but if it's a stone foundation it's just one of
those things you'll have to live with to a degree. How high is the
water table in the area?


- Minor leakage on family room ceiling. Roof on the FR does not have
steep enough slope (me thinks) and with all the snow in NJ during last
2 yrs, it possibly leaked in.


If there's inadequate attic insulation, ice dams will be a problem.
You may want to look into a metal roof (as well as insulation and
venting of the attic).


- Old, original windows in fair to bad shape.

Depending on what you mean by "fair to bad shape" (rotted
frames/sashes?) you may want to go with new windows. Not cheap. If
the frames and sashes are not rotted, just loose they can usually be
made tighter. Depends on the style of window and how much work you
want to do. When I bought my late-1800s-vintage house the windows
were very loose & drafty. Amazing what vinyl sash guides and
re-glazing the windows did. This is partly a matter of personal
taste. I wanted to keep my house as "original" as possible and didn't
really want modern windows if I could avoid it.


- Old dark cedar shake shingle siding. Don't know how old.

I thought you said this was a stone house. How much is stone, vs.
shake siding? Cedar shakes usually last a long time...they do age
over time and become dark (or perhaps they were stained). This sounds
more like personal taste than a "problem" per se.

- No central air.

How is this a "problem"? Nothing's broken/damaged...only a luxury
that you may desire that isn't there. If you want it that badly
install it yourself. I fail to see how this is the seller's
responsibility.


- Some minor work needed on mortar.

Some good things -
- Didn't notice termite damage (doesn't mean it's not there)
- Didn't notice any othere water leaks (didn't get to check the attic
yet)
- House "feels" solid, no spongy floors, etc.

It's not reasonable to buy an old house and not expect to have to do
some work on it. Nothing that you describe sounds extreme. Some of
the things you mentioned (dirt cellar, lack of air conditioning) may
not have been a big deal to previous owners, and really don't affect
the integrity of the house. It's more a matter of personal
preference.

"Tracey" wrote in message ...
"Raj" wrote in message
om...
Anyway, before I jump and make an offer I plan to get it inspected.

I'm just curious if this is order of actions is typical of your area? In my
area (CT) typically you make the offer (with the inspection and financing
clauses), negotiating happens, the bid is signed, THEN you do the
inspection. More negotiations may ensue depending on the results of the
inspection.

I can't imagine that I would want to pay for the inspection before I knew
that they would accept my bid. What happens if you pay for the inspection,
then another bid is presented before you make yours? Seems to me like its
more of a risk for losing your $350 or whatever your inspection cost, and
someone could scoop the house out from under you that way.

It's the same here in NJ. The reason I would have it inspected
*before* making an offer is for my peace of mind. I would like to know
before hand how much work the house needs. I have already scoped out
repairs that were easily seen when I walked though the house. It's
those not easily seen problems I would like to know ...

Thanks.

Raj

Anyway, before I jump and make an offer I plan
to get it inspected.

When you say "inspected" do you mean by one of the pre-buy home
inspection companies that have sprung up in the last 10 years?

If so, I would advise not spending your money in that direction unless
you have a lender involved that wants a letterhead from "Bob's Licensed
Home Inspector". Because with a 100 y.o. house as you describe, the
best the home inspection company will be able to give you is a letter
full of maybe, could be, potential problem, issue, advise you contact a
structural engineer, etc. And realistically, given the potential for
liability, that is all they can do.

Instead, I would hire a general foreman from a well-regarded remodeling
company for a day (think $50/hr for 8 hours + buy lunch), buy a pair of
coveralls and a good flashlight, and spend a day with that dude crawling
through every inch of the house and surrounding property. You take
notes, because he isn't going to give you a written report or sign his
name to anything, but he will be able to give you a realistic
understanding of what does/doesn't need to be fixed, what the potential
failure areas are, and how much it will cost.

The kind of property you describe is a lot of fun, but be sure you have
a good chunk of cash in reserve for the "known unknowns".

sPh

On 15 Sep 2004 20:26:54 -0700, someone wrote:

We looked at a old stone house, built in 1920s, in Bergen county, NJ,
and fell in love with it. It's just beautiful!

Is it really stone structure, or is it merely stone facing on wood
stud structure?

Either way, buying old houses with dirt floored cellars and original
windows in leaky conditions, isn't for first time buyers (unless they
are very "handy"), or even repeat buyers who are used to new homes
(unless ditto). Its almost like "if you have to ask this Q its not
for you". With a house like this, you pays your money and you takes
your chances.

Sure go ahead if you want, and have "somebody" look at it, in
particular the sill all the way around the foundation. And BTW, even
a "flat" roof (2% slope) doesn't leak if roofed right. While I have
seen various purchase contracts with inspection contingencies, there
is no chance in Hell that the Seller would agree to fix "whatever" is
found by an inspector, typically only a termite inspection (and then
take it or leave it depending on results) would be agreed to.

An offer with an inspection contingency is going to be less attractive
than one without, especially in an area where it is customarily done
pre-offer. One could try it, but could very well have it rejected and
be told "inspect it all you want, then make the offer". I,
personally, have never asked for a "home inspection" contingency when
making an offer. I look the place over, bringing whoever I want with
me, and then offer what I am willing to.

-v.

(v) wrote in message ...
On 15 Sep 2004 20:26:54 -0700, someone wrote:

We looked at a old stone house, built in 1920s, in Bergen county, NJ,
and fell in love with it. It's just beautiful!

Is it really stone structure, or is it merely stone facing on wood
stud structure?

Either way, buying old houses with dirt floored cellars and original
windows in leaky conditions, isn't for first time buyers (unless they
are very "handy"), or even repeat buyers who are used to new homes
(unless ditto). Its almost like "if you have to ask this Q its not
for you". With a house like this, you pays your money and you takes
your chances.

Sure go ahead if you want, and have "somebody" look at it, in
particular the sill all the way around the foundation. And BTW, even
a "flat" roof (2% slope) doesn't leak if roofed right. While I have
seen various purchase contracts with inspection contingencies, there
is no chance in Hell that the Seller would agree to fix "whatever" is
found by an inspector, typically only a termite inspection (and then
take it or leave it depending on results) would be agreed to.

An offer with an inspection contingency is going to be less attractive
than one without, especially in an area where it is customarily done
pre-offer. One could try it, but could very well have it rejected and
be told "inspect it all you want, then make the offer". I,
personally, have never asked for a "home inspection" contingency when
making an offer. I look the place over, bringing whoever I want with
me, and then offer what I am willing to.

-v.

Thanks for all the replies folks.
I took a friend who is in construction business to check out the house
instead of an inspector. Well, the verdict is thumbs down. His own
words were - It's a great house but it will be a long and expensive
project.

Thanks again.
Raj