Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

"Basha" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

I'd check with the city. If the owner didn't get a permit - the finished
basement may not be up to city codes, i.e. city may require egress windows
for finished basements, etc.

Better to be safe than sorry...

My 2c,

Matty

In article ,
said...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

The main risk is that if they built right up to the foundation you will
not be able to inspect it's soundness. That really has nothing to do with
having or not having a permit, but that would be my concern. Any decent
home inspector can tell you whether the job itself is sound or not.

Aside from the points made by others, no bank/mortgage company will touch a
property which does not have a Certificate of Occupancy on an extension, or
in this case, a finished area. Ask the current owner if he/she is willing
to do the legwork to get the C of O and pay the fines. It can get very
expensive and time consuming. If he/she won't, walk away.
--
C.J.

Pull my pud to reply


"Basha" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

In article , said...
Aside from the points made by others, no bank/mortgage company will touch a
property which does not have a Certificate of Occupancy on an extension, or
in this case, a finished area. Ask the current owner if he/she is willing
to do the legwork to get the C of O and pay the fines. It can get very
expensive and time consuming. If he/she won't, walk away.

That's not true at all. I sold a house last year with a basement that I
did off the books. I also know many people that have done the same thing
and had no problem. It is quite a common occurrence, legal or not.

Some areas may not require a permit to finish off an unfinished basement.
Check with the town offices before panicking.



--


Remove "zz" from e-mail address to direct reply.

On 12 Nov 2003, Basha wrote:

You comments greatly appreciated.

I didn't sift through all of the sub-replies, just the top level.
In case nobody mentioned these things:

1) The need for "permits" varies in every single municipality
in the land. Some require a permit for everything, some have
a specific list of projects, some classify need based on
"changing the structural integrity..." or some similar wording.
Check with your muni, that's the ONLY safe way to answer that.

2) As others have pointed out, don't confuse permits with the
quality/safeness of the work. It may still be OK, you need
an inspection to tell you that.

3) That's a lot of living space, and you can almost bet that
it's not documented for tax assessment purposes. Count on
the taxes going WAY up after the cat is out of the bag.

HTH.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

Sounds too much like what a certain relative of mine did...their new
house's basement and roof leak and rather than fight with the builder,
they finished the basement themselves, and covered the water damage
stains, etc. They are planning on selling without disclosure, and now
deny, even to family members who are well aware of all this, that it
ever happened. In some areas codes are not really enforced, but
lenders may feel otherwise about accepting this. It is up to you but
at least get an inspection. Good luck, hope you find a good house
soon.


(Basha) wrote in message om...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

In article ,
said...
On 12 Nov 2003 11:14:15 -0800, (Basha) wrote:

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

I believe there is. Neither you nor a home inspector can see through
the walls. If the electrical wasn't permitted and inspected, how can
you know whether or not it was properly done. Same thing with
plumbing and gas. As to the bedroom, is there legal egress, and if
there is and an enlarged window was installed, was it done correctly
or was the structure compromised?.

I'm a contractor and I've seen enough unpermitted work (usually done
by homeowners) that is poor practice and even unsafe to scare me off.

I'm a DIYer and I've seen enough work by contractors that is poor practice
and even unsafe. I have to live in the house so I trust my work much more
than some guy who knows the aisles at Home Depot and has a sign on his
truck.

My wife and I are currently househunting ... when I come across one
with an unpermitted finished basement, I value the basement
development at minus three thousand dollars (the cost of tearing it
out).

So you don't even give it a chance. It's possible that the job is
actually better than anything you might do.

--
The admission of ignorance is the first step on the road to knowledge.
The beginning of understanding is an open mind.
"Basha" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

Several.

First off, everything was fine as long as anyone didn't bring it to the
attention of the authorities. Now that they know, they may investigate.
Were you to buy it, you would be the current owner, and would have to allow
inspectors access.

Yes, the risks is there. It may not be up to code. It may be unsafe either
structurally or electrically. It may need an escape system that meets code.

In short, I would not consider buying it until THE OWNER got and paid for
all the legal stuff to make the house legal. You could come back and sue
him for lack of disclosure, but you would spend even more money on lawyers
than it is worth.

You will have enough to do with fixing up. You don't need the hassle of
anything like this to contend with, too.

Steve

wrote in news
On 12 Nov 2003 11:14:15 -0800, (Basha) wrote:

Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

I believe there is. Neither you nor a home inspector can see through
the walls. If the electrical wasn't permitted and inspected, how can
you know whether or not it was properly done. Same thing with
plumbing and gas. As to the bedroom, is there legal egress, and if
there is and an enlarged window was installed, was it done correctly
or was the structure compromised?.

I'm a contractor and I've seen enough unpermitted work (usually done
by homeowners) that is poor practice and even unsafe to scare me off.

My wife and I are currently househunting ... when I come across one
with an unpermitted finished basement, I value the basement
development at minus three thousand dollars (the cost of tearing it
out).

It depends on the area. You'll have to ask (probably the local
building/inspection office) what's necessary, and what it would take to
remedy the situation.

When my FIL went to the city (small town in Texas) and asked what he needed
to do to put an addition on his house, the guy gave him a funny look and
said, "Go build it!" In other words, no permits or inspections were require
d(only for septic, which he wasn't doing).

Speaking from experience:
My current house had a third bedroom added and a garage finished into living
space and a new garage built without permits (at least that I can tell). All
done by a DIY'er. It even made it into a national magazine as a model
project. THings that were done wrong: Grade raised above the top of
foundation, Hot and Nuetral reversed in the garage refinish, Skylights
installed wrong, Bay windows installed wrong, THe upgrage to 100 amp service
did not upgrade the wire leading to the house (so it burnt out when I turned
the AC on), Roof flashing installed wrong, septic tank sized for a 2 bedroom
house, high effiency furnace with no flue liner, lack of GFI's, radiant
heating system incorrectly installed. I could go on but I'm too busy
scratching my head on why some things were done.

Don't get me wrong, I love my house and am slowly correcting things but the
home inspection only caught 2 of the issues. Proper permits and inspections
would have found most of them. Flags should go up if the work was done by a
DIY'er and a more thorough inspection performed. My bank did not even care
if there were permits for past work.

"Basha" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

You comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Basha

Thanks for all your comments.

The first step I am going to do today is going to the muncipal office
and enquire about this. I will also talk to one of the city
inspectors.

I will post the happenings.

Thanks again.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:06 -0500, Brad wrote:

In article ,
said...
On 12 Nov 2003 11:14:15 -0800, (Basha) wrote:

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

I believe there is. Neither you nor a home inspector can see through
the walls. If the electrical wasn't permitted and inspected, how can
you know whether or not it was properly done. Same thing with
plumbing and gas. As to the bedroom, is there legal egress, and if
there is and an enlarged window was installed, was it done correctly
or was the structure compromised?.

I'm a contractor and I've seen enough unpermitted work (usually done
by homeowners) that is poor practice and even unsafe to scare me off.

I'm a DIYer and I've seen enough work by contractors that is poor practice
and even unsafe. I have to live in the house so I trust my work much more
than some guy who knows the aisles at Home Depot and has a sign on his
truck.


The point that you seem to have completely missed is that the work was
done without permits or inspections - regardless of how good the
homeowner may be at doing the work the fact remains that if they
didn't do it in accordance with codes that were current at the time
and then have it inspected and it passed, you are left with relying on
any faith you have in the unknown homeowner ability not to cross the
wires or connect the gas lines to the water lines!

The other point that was developed as the thread went along was the
fact that features that were potentially hazardous to the health and
safety of the occupants may have been ignored by the homeowner, i.e.
proper egress from the area that was finished.

My wife and I are currently househunting ... when I come across one
with an unpermitted finished basement, I value the basement
development at minus three thousand dollars (the cost of tearing it
out).

So you don't even give it a chance. It's possible that the job is
actually better than anything you might do.

It can have a chance if at least it could be proved that it was not
necessarily better, but at least that it was in conformance with the
established standards and codes - no permits = no inspections leave
you with a mystery!

In article ,
said...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:06 -0500, Brad wrote:

I'm a DIYer and I've seen enough work by contractors that is poor practice
and even unsafe. I have to live in the house so I trust my work much more
than some guy who knows the aisles at Home Depot and has a sign on his
truck.

The point that you seem to have completely missed is that the work was
done without permits or inspections - regardless of how good the
homeowner may be at doing the work the fact remains that if they
didn't do it in accordance with codes that were current at the time
and then have it inspected and it passed, you are left with relying on
any faith you have in the unknown homeowner ability not to cross the
wires or connect the gas lines to the water lines!

If you can't determine those kinds of issues yourself you should be
renting.

The other point that was developed as the thread went along was the
fact that features that were potentially hazardous to the health and
safety of the occupants may have been ignored by the homeowner, i.e.
proper egress from the area that was finished.

Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to
use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or
you don't live in the room. I lived in a basement with no egress for many
years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my
neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the
main floor and many of those had kids living in them. Just because we are
an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a
friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom.

Basha wrote:

Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

"Brad" wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1e25161ac333bd98b986@news...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:06 -0500, Brad wrote:


Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to
use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or
you don't live in the room. I lived in a basement with no egress for many
years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my
neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the
main floor and many of those had kids living in them. Just because we are
an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a
friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom.

Exactly. You cannot legally claim a space is a bedroom unless it meets
egress requirements.
You won't be able to claim the room as a bedroom when you sell the property.
I don't think this stops too many people from using these as bedrooms. Nor
should it.
I certainly agree about the overly regulatory society. I'm still trying to
figure out how we all survived during the "dark ages" when people actually
had to think for themselves, and take calculated risks.
It's a wonder that we all survived. Sure am glad I have someone else do
that thinking for me.
I feel much safer...................NOT
Dave

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that
he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows
about the property.

At least around here that is the how it is done.
--
Ron
Port Dover Ontario

In article WA3tb.691$Dw6.9760@attbi_s02, said...

"Brad" wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1e25161ac333bd98b986@news...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:06 -0500, Brad wrote:


Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to
use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or
you don't live in the room. I lived in a basement with no egress for many
years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my
neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the
main floor and many of those had kids living in them. Just because we are
an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a
friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom.

Exactly. You cannot legally claim a space is a bedroom unless it meets
egress requirements.
You won't be able to claim the room as a bedroom when you sell the property.
I don't think this stops too many people from using these as bedrooms. Nor
should it.
I certainly agree about the overly regulatory society. I'm still trying to
figure out how we all survived during the "dark ages" when people actually
had to think for themselves, and take calculated risks.
It's a wonder that we all survived. Sure am glad I have someone else do
that thinking for me.
I feel much safer...................NOT

Well, at least we are combatting Darwinism by perpetuating the lives of
the stupid. If we didn't the Democrats would have nobody to vote for
them.

(Basha) wrote in message om...
Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?


Risk in what sense?

Certainly there is a risk that the basement does not meet code, but
this is probably fixable.

With finished basements there is always a risk that your basement
might someday flood, so that's something I would consider and weigh.

There is a risk that your property tax will go up.

There is a risk that you may overestimate the value of having a
finsihed basement when you make your offer. This would be my primary
concern, because it's not something you can undo.

From a financial perspective, I would be careful about that last risk
when making my offer. I just bought a house with a finished basement
(there was a permit and everything passed code, so I'm not worried
about that part). For me and my needs, it adds substantially to the
usable square footage of the home (two "bedrooms" and a large full
bath), extra sq footage I couldn't afford otherwise.

The way it was designed, you don't get the impression you are in a
finished basement. Everything has been finished very nicely with the
same quality of materials in the rest of the house so it doesn't
"feel" sub-par. Plus the way the stairs are configured, it flows
nicely with the rest of the house and doesn't make you feel you're
entering a basement at all.

However, it was very tempting upon initial viewing to consider these
extra bedrooms and make a bid as if it was a 4-bedroom house, not a
2-bedroom house with two "bonus" basement rooms that *might* be used
as bedrooms (or may someday flood and be completely unusable). I was
very careful in determining what I wanted to offer. I did not want to
make the mistake of comparing the value of this house to a true
4-bedroom. I compared it instead to a 2-bedroom, and added a little
extra for the fact that it had a nicely finished basement. This was
exactly how the assessor ended up looking at it, too.

Incidentally, it was advertised by the realtor as a 4 bedroom, but
when I saw these two bedrooms, I politely corrected her on that.

I feel sorry for my neighbors who didn't think it through the same way
I did; they ended up, IMHO, grossly overpaying for their property. Oh
well... I suppose that ultimately when it comes time to sell, I may
luck out and find someone willing to make that mistake, too.

Buyer should also be careful when assessing the value of finished
attic space.

jen

In article ,
said...
Buyer should also be careful when assessing the value of finished
attic space.

Attic space is typically better than basement space because it isn't below
ground. As long as the place is insulater properly and isn't a sauna in
the summer and a freezer in the winter it is no different than an upstairs
room (other than the extra flight of stairs).

Ron wrote:

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that
he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows
about the property.

At least around here that is the how it is done.

If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so
without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a
mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the
seller to prove that the improvements were done safely.

In article , C G
said...
Ron wrote:

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that
he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows
about the property.

At least around here that is the how it is done.

If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so
without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a
mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the
seller to prove that the improvements were done safely.

It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL."
It's about as illegal as speeding.

"Brad" wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1f43b2ac83370d98b9a2@news...
In article , C G
said...
Ron wrote:

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if
there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you
close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out
by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems
uncovered.

Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection
that
he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he
knows
about the property.

At least around here that is the how it is done.

If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so
without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a
mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the
seller to prove that the improvements were done safely.

It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL."
It's about as illegal as speeding.


Actually, IF work was done, that required proper permits, and they were NOT
pulled, then, the local jurisdiction CAN have the work removed....fines will
be issued in the least...here it is twice the original amount.
IF the work was done by a non licenced person, in the event that a licenced
person was required to do it, and no permits (of course) pulled, then the
person that actually did the work can be hit with a felony charge, and jail
time.
Happens ALL the time in areas that follow the law...particularly here...in
his particular area, it might not be the case.

Brad wrote:
It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL."
It's about as illegal as speeding.

I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of
argument.

C G wrote:
Brad wrote:

It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL."
It's about as illegal as speeding.


I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of
argument.
Hi,
Some folks have very interesting attitude towards law/regulations.
Maybe law is there because of people like that. Very funny!
Tony

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:33:13 -0500, Brad wrote:


Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to
use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or
you don't live in the room.

Then you won't buy the property!

I lived in a basement with no egress for many
years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my
neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the
main floor and many of those had kids living in them.

Gosh,you should thank the gods that you are alive today and didn't get
roasted in a fire that trapped you in your cellar!

Just because we are
an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a
friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom.

Not a ****in' big window, just one that is adequate for a person to
use to escape in necessary! (Call a ****ing spade a spade for the gods
sake - what are you trying to prove with your ****ing use of the word
"friggin'" ? (You ain't fooling anyone!)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:08:22 GMT, "DaveG" wrote:

I'm still trying to
figure out how we all survived during the "dark ages" when people actually
had to think for themselves, and take calculated risks.

did you ever consider that everyone didn't survive?

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:56:53 -0500, "Ron" wrote:


Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that
he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows
about the property.

Apparently it is more than just a matter of "home inspection" in this
case considerable construction modification were made to the property
without pulling appropriate permits and having the work inspected by
the appropriate code enforcement authorities - this is something that
the seller should be expected to resolve before settlement and the
closing on the property at the time of the sale!

wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:33:13 -0500, Brad wrote:


Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to
use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or
you don't live in the room.


Then you won't buy the property!


I lived in a basement with no egress for many
years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my
neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the
main floor and many of those had kids living in them.


Gosh,you should thank the gods that you are alive today and didn't get
roasted in a fire that trapped you in your cellar!


Just because we are
an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a
friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom.


Not a ****in' big window, just one that is adequate for a person to
use to escape in necessary! (Call a ****ing spade a spade for the gods
sake - what are you trying to prove with your ****ing use of the word
"friggin'" ? (You ain't fooling anyone!)

Hi,
Some has bird's brain. Common sense is very rare lately.
Tony

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:58:23 -0500, someone wrote:


That's not true at all. I sold a house last year with a basement that I
did off the books. I also know many people that have done the same thing
and had no problem. It is quite a common occurrence, legal or not.

As a practical matter, I agree to the extent that it would be OK with
'the bank' as long as the illegally finished area is not being relied
upon to acheive the required value of the property. OTOH if the bank
thinks it is mortgaging a 4-bedroom 3 bath home, but one bedroom and
one bath are illegal in the basement, then they sure as hell WOULD
care, IF their appraiser was on the ball enough to catch it, which he
should, but often will not.

-v.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote:


I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.
And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will
now want more for the house since the addition is now legal!

(Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those
features? Just shot himself in the foot!)

-v.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:46:53 GMT, someone wrote:

Brad wrote:
It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL."
It's about as illegal as speeding.

I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of
argument.

Here at my office, my landlord got summonsed in to court for letting
me move in before the handicapped rails were installed in the
bathroom!!!!

-v.

v wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote:

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.

How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to? The seller
has put himself in a very bad negotiating position by making unpermitted
improvements to his house. Who said anything about turning him into the
city?

And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will
now want more for the house since the addition is now legal!

All based on your incorrect assumption that the city found out.


(Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those
features? Just shot himself in the foot!)

Might be better than buying a house with shoddy, unsafe modifications.

Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook
the basement's lack of permit. I would see what happens.
"C G" wrote in message
.. .
Basha wrote:

Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

I agree with V. If you turn the seller into the city he will hate you and
probably find a way not to sell you the house. But if it's important to you
to get everything aboveboard then you will have to take the chance and see
what happens. The bank that inspects the house may require the permits
anyway. However, they may overlook the basement. It all depends.

"v" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote:


I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.
And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will
now want more for the house since the addition is now legal!

(Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those
features? Just shot himself in the foot!)

-v.

What are you talking about?

Houseslave wrote:

Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook
the basement's lack of permit. I would see what happens.
"C G" wrote in message
.. .
Basha wrote:

Hi,

I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable
house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the
survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a
record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed
the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2
bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is
there any risk involved in buying this house?

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Chuck

The only party that is concerned with all the permits is the buyer and the
buyer's bank. If the bank doesn't ask for the permits then the buyer has to
make a deciscion whether or not they care. Many banks will tell you to
cover up the stove so they can give the OK for the mortgage.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:33:25 GMT, "Houseslave"
wrote:

Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook
the basement's lack of permit.



What sink and stove?

If you try to sell a house without a sink in my area you would never
get a loan and if you tried that without a stove where I came from you
would never get a c.o.!

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:31:25 GMT, "Houseslave"
wrote:

The only party that is concerned with all the permits is the buyer and the
buyer's bank. If the bank doesn't ask for the permits then the buyer has to
make a deciscion whether or not they care. Many banks will tell you to
cover up the stove so they can give the OK for the mortgage.


Maybe in the rural slum where you have your hovel, but you can't get a
C.O. without everything being up to code or grand fathered here!