OK.
I went to the city office directly and talked to one of the inspectors
and few other guys in community development, construction and
engineering dept. They said, once the construction is done they are
not going to give any permit and they are not going to come to the
house to check it. They also said the previous owner completed the
basement and may not have reported to city to save some taxes. I asked
is part of the house "ILLEGAL". They said it is not called illegal but
improper, also said there are quiet a no of people who don't report
their enhancements to their houses which may involve adding a bathroom
or bedroom etc. The risk is whether they have done the proper electic
and plumbing work or not. I asked him how to ensure whether it is done
in a proper way. He told me it is very difficult to find out once it
is done. It may involve tearingup the sheets covering the electric and
plumbing work. He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in
an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the
next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years,
seller will get the money back.

Anyways, my realtor brought a market analysis of the houses in this
area (Plymouth, Minnesota) and we came to an amount which we can
offer. We offred the seller 5k more than the average selling price and
also I bear all the minor repairs in the house. The average price is
20k less than the seller's list price. Repairs in the house a One
of the closet door broke may need a replacement, all the sloset doors
are stick to the carpet and are difficult to open and they may need a
half inch cut at the bottom of the doors. Family room doesn't have the
the air intake, hot air comes from the furnace but there is no vent to
take the air from that room. It's a closed room. Back side of the
house some of the vinyl sheets came out of the wall. It needs a fix
and there are many other small things. Those I can do myself. (My
realtor said the total may cost around $3000). 2 days back we bid with
condition-asking the seller to put the money $10k in escrow account.
Seller rejected the bid asking $10k more and didn't like the condition
of keeping the money in escrow account.

That's what happend in the last week.

The house is 1994 built, split level completely finished (2260sft) in
Plymouth, Minnesota. (suburb of Minneapolis)

-Basha

On 17 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0800, someone wrote:


... He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in
an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the
next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years,
seller will get the money back.

Shows you what happens when you take real estate advice from an
inspector.

Chances slim to none that any seller would agree to skip $10,000 for 3
to 5 years, based on the buyer not coming up with "ANYTHING" in that
time. What a crock of bull, you showed yourself to be a fool if you
tried to impose this under those circumstances.

(BTW, what did your bank think of the $10k escrow? Or didn't you ask
them yet.)

-v.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:21:00 GMT, someone wrote:


I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.

How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to?

Have you bought many properties where the Seller agreed to pay for
*any* problems that turned up? I have been buying and selling for
over 20 years and it just doesn't happen frequently enought to be a
realistic suggestion. (I've never seen it happen at all, but in then
infinity of the net, am leaving a way out.)

Sure the Buyer can have an inspection. But the Seller is HIGHLY
UNLIKELY TO THE POINT OF IT BEING RIDICULOUS TO EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME
ASKING, to agree to fix "any" problem found. Buyer can show the
Seller the problems and ask, or even get an agreement that (say) the
first $1,000 in repairs is covered, but rational sellers will not
agree to open ended clauses that encourage the Buyer to try to get a
free renovation out of the sale. And if you ask for unreasonable
stuff, you are likely to **** off the Seller and get thrown out of the
deal and NOT get any concessions.

And don't say how do I know the Seller won't NEGOTIATE, SURE he
probably WILL "negotiate", but that is not the same as agreeing to
your ridiculous terms. Whatever makes you think he WILL agree? And
DON'T say there is no harm in asking, there certainly is, if you knew
anything about negotiation.


-v.

In article ,
said...
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:21:00 GMT, someone wrote:


I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.

How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to?

Have you bought many properties where the Seller agreed to pay for
*any* problems that turned up? I have been buying and selling for
over 20 years and it just doesn't happen frequently enought to be a
realistic suggestion. (I've never seen it happen at all, but in then
infinity of the net, am leaving a way out.)

Septic and wells are the main exceptions to that rule. If a septic or
well fails inspection the seller has to fix or replace it and will
typically not get a penny more on the market for the house. It happened
to me. I never understood why the market worked that way because if I'm
comparing two similar septic houses, the age of the systems is a big
factor for me.

v wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:21:00 GMT, someone wrote:

I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there
is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist
that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close.
If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a
qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered.

Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those
condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city.

How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to?

Have you bought many properties where the Seller agreed to pay for
*any* problems that turned up? I have been buying and selling for
over 20 years and it just doesn't happen frequently enought to be a
realistic suggestion. (I've never seen it happen at all, but in then
infinity of the net, am leaving a way out.)

Yes, I have. If there is a problem that needs to be fixed the seller is
going to have to either pay for it, lower the price, or tell the buyer
"no deal".


Sure the Buyer can have an inspection. But the Seller is HIGHLY
UNLIKELY TO THE POINT OF IT BEING RIDICULOUS TO EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME
ASKING, to agree to fix "any" problem found. Buyer can show the
Seller the problems and ask, or even get an agreement that (say) the
first $1,000 in repairs is covered, but rational sellers will not
agree to open ended clauses that encourage the Buyer to try to get a
free renovation out of the sale. And if you ask for unreasonable
stuff, you are likely to **** off the Seller and get thrown out of the
deal and NOT get any concessions.

The trouble with this seller is that he did something in violation of
local building regs. The buyer in this case has him by the balls.


And don't say how do I know the Seller won't NEGOTIATE, SURE he
probably WILL "negotiate", but that is not the same as agreeing to
your ridiculous terms. Whatever makes you think he WILL agree? And
DON'T say there is no harm in asking, there certainly is, if you knew
anything about negotiation.

Are you finished arguing with yourself? I never said he would agree.
However, since he's in a pretty difficult situation, the odds are good
he would.

v wrote:

On 17 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0800, someone wrote:

... He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in
an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the
next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years,
seller will get the money back.

Shows you what happens when you take real estate advice from an
inspector.

Chances slim to none that any seller would agree to skip $10,000 for 3
to 5 years, based on the buyer not coming up with "ANYTHING" in that
time. What a crock of bull, you showed yourself to be a fool if you
tried to impose this under those circumstances.

You're just full of yourself aren't you? It must be an awesome task to
be omniscient. "The seller won't do this". "The seller won't agree to
that". You should write some books to share your amazing grasp on human
behaviour.

Just some friendly advice:

Real estate people don't give reliable estimates of what repairs will cost.
Especially when you are the buyer, and the recipient of these estimates.
It's not their area of expertise, really, but they do have ample motivation
to answer those questions and smooth things over. $3000 may cover it, maybe
only if done poorly by a very low quality contractor. It may not even cover
it then. Also, asking a seller to throw $10k in escrow against unknown
problems is pretty wishful thinking - think about it, given reversed roles,
would you be willing to do it? There's always someone, somewhere, who will
buy as is.

The bottom line is that any house is a risk. Even one unmodified by the
owner, in apparently good shape could have killer black mold hanging around
somewhere waiting to bloom. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to cover every
liability. In the end, you have to seek trusted advice about what real
problems the house has, use your own eyes, and make a decision. Find or hire
an independant handyman, and pay to have him estimate the work that needs to
be done - then you know, and you have a somewhat documented case for
adjusting the price to cover repairs. Also, the handyman/contractor's advice
about the house would be a valuable addition to the inspector's. Inspector's
are good for checking some major things, and certain safety things, but they
miss some very obvious things you will end up having to fix.

Just remember, when you are the buyer, and the agent says "Oh, that? That's
no problem!" they really mean "Oh, that? That's no problem....for me!"


"Basha" wrote in message
m...
OK.
I went to the city office directly and talked to one of the inspectors
and few other guys in community development, construction and
engineering dept. They said, once the construction is done they are
not going to give any permit and they are not going to come to the
house to check it. They also said the previous owner completed the
basement and may not have reported to city to save some taxes. I asked
is part of the house "ILLEGAL". They said it is not called illegal but
improper, also said there are quiet a no of people who don't report
their enhancements to their houses which may involve adding a bathroom
or bedroom etc. The risk is whether they have done the proper electic
and plumbing work or not. I asked him how to ensure whether it is done
in a proper way. He told me it is very difficult to find out once it
is done. It may involve tearingup the sheets covering the electric and
plumbing work. He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in
an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the
next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years,
seller will get the money back.

Anyways, my realtor brought a market analysis of the houses in this
area (Plymouth, Minnesota) and we came to an amount which we can
offer. We offred the seller 5k more than the average selling price and
also I bear all the minor repairs in the house. The average price is
20k less than the seller's list price. Repairs in the house a One
of the closet door broke may need a replacement, all the sloset doors
are stick to the carpet and are difficult to open and they may need a
half inch cut at the bottom of the doors. Family room doesn't have the
the air intake, hot air comes from the furnace but there is no vent to
take the air from that room. It's a closed room. Back side of the
house some of the vinyl sheets came out of the wall. It needs a fix
and there are many other small things. Those I can do myself. (My
realtor said the total may cost around $3000). 2 days back we bid with
condition-asking the seller to put the money $10k in escrow account.
Seller rejected the bid asking $10k more and didn't like the condition
of keeping the money in escrow account.

That's what happend in the last week.

The house is 1994 built, split level completely finished (2260sft) in
Plymouth, Minnesota. (suburb of Minneapolis)

-Basha

Hi,
WOW! This thread drags on so LONG. As a seller, if he did not hide
anything from buyer, he did his job. As a buyer, if you want to buy
after collecting all the info and inspection of the house, just make
a conditional offer. Then you two negotiate, if it does not work out,
go find another house. Or build a house to your heart's content like
I did. That is not the only house you can buy. If you like that house
SO much, then by all means, buy it and take the consequences.
Let's move on.
Tony

Steve wrote:

Just some friendly advice:

Real estate people don't give reliable estimates of what repairs will cost.
Especially when you are the buyer, and the recipient of these estimates.
It's not their area of expertise, really, but they do have ample motivation
to answer those questions and smooth things over. $3000 may cover it, maybe
only if done poorly by a very low quality contractor. It may not even cover
it then. Also, asking a seller to throw $10k in escrow against unknown
problems is pretty wishful thinking - think about it, given reversed roles,
would you be willing to do it? There's always someone, somewhere, who will
buy as is.

The bottom line is that any house is a risk. Even one unmodified by the
owner, in apparently good shape could have killer black mold hanging around
somewhere waiting to bloom. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to cover every
liability. In the end, you have to seek trusted advice about what real
problems the house has, use your own eyes, and make a decision. Find or hire
an independant handyman, and pay to have him estimate the work that needs to
be done - then you know, and you have a somewhat documented case for
adjusting the price to cover repairs. Also, the handyman/contractor's advice
about the house would be a valuable addition to the inspector's. Inspector's
are good for checking some major things, and certain safety things, but they
miss some very obvious things you will end up having to fix.

Just remember, when you are the buyer, and the agent says "Oh, that? That's
no problem!" they really mean "Oh, that? That's no problem....for me!"


"Basha" wrote in message
m...

OK.
I went to the city office directly and talked to one of the inspectors
and few other guys in community development, construction and
engineering dept. They said, once the construction is done they are
not going to give any permit and they are not going to come to the
house to check it. They also said the previous owner completed the
basement and may not have reported to city to save some taxes. I asked
is part of the house "ILLEGAL". They said it is not called illegal but
improper, also said there are quiet a no of people who don't report
their enhancements to their houses which may involve adding a bathroom
or bedroom etc. The risk is whether they have done the proper electic
and plumbing work or not. I asked him how to ensure whether it is done
in a proper way. He told me it is very difficult to find out once it
is done. It may involve tearingup the sheets covering the electric and
plumbing work. He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in
an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the
next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years,
seller will get the money back.

Anyways, my realtor brought a market analysis of the houses in this
area (Plymouth, Minnesota) and we came to an amount which we can
offer. We offred the seller 5k more than the average selling price and
also I bear all the minor repairs in the house. The average price is
20k less than the seller's list price. Repairs in the house a One
of the closet door broke may need a replacement, all the sloset doors
are stick to the carpet and are difficult to open and they may need a
half inch cut at the bottom of the doors. Family room doesn't have the
the air intake, hot air comes from the furnace but there is no vent to
take the air from that room. It's a closed room. Back side of the
house some of the vinyl sheets came out of the wall. It needs a fix
and there are many other small things. Those I can do myself. (My
realtor said the total may cost around $3000). 2 days back we bid with
condition-asking the seller to put the money $10k in escrow account.
Seller rejected the bid asking $10k more and didn't like the condition
of keeping the money in escrow account.

That's what happend in the last week.

The house is 1994 built, split level completely finished (2260sft) in
Plymouth, Minnesota. (suburb of Minneapolis)

-Basha