We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

1) We would like a 3/4 bdrms 2 full baths (in NE anything that has a
toilet and at least a shower stall is defined as a full bath). This
house has 3 Bdrms and 1.5 baths with the ability to convert to 2 full
baths with the main bathroom on the first level and the half a bath in
the finished basement.

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen). The kitchen is large enough to be made
into an eat-in-kitchen.

2a) It has a finished basement with a really stylish usable family
room and an extra room (can be used as an office room).

3) No garage. This is a biggie for us given the awful winter we just
had. We checked the lot information from the town info and there is a
theoretical possibility to build a garage. However, the house sits on
a granite hill with boulders in the yard and it would be quite an
effort (cost and timewise) to put in a graded driveway leading to a
garage. The house is in a spectacular neighborhood and is probably
the cheapest on the street. Every other house on the street except
this and one other house has a garage. If another house on the street
would go on sale we would most likely not be able to afford it (at
least 60k price difference). We have concluded that it is
impractical to think about a garage for this house.

4) The back and front yards are to die for. The view from the front
of the house which is into the opposite guy's front yard and woods is
simply spectacular.

5) The house has been on the market for close to a year with
progressive price reductions and still no takers. The owner has
verbally agreed with us on a price which we think is fair.

6) No fireplaces.

This is absolutely the neighborhood we want to live in. The schools
are awesome and the neighbors really take care of their property. We
are immigrants from a different culture and would like to hear some
popular opinion.

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

How about the lack of fireplaces?

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

Arulmozhi wrote:
Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

In a lot of new construction they don't even bother with dining rooms
any more. No one I know who has one uses it more than a couple times a
year.

How about the lack of fireplaces?

It's an issue if you have to have a fireplace.

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

That depends on what is common where the house is. Do all the other
house have garages?

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

How old is the house? Did you have it inspected?

"Arulmozhi" wrote in message
om...
We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

1) We would like a 3/4 bdrms 2 full baths (in NE anything that has a
toilet and at least a shower stall is defined as a full bath). This
house has 3 Bdrms and 1.5 baths with the ability to convert to 2 full
baths with the main bathroom on the first level and the half a bath in
the finished basement.

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen). The kitchen is large enough to be made
into an eat-in-kitchen.

2a) It has a finished basement with a really stylish usable family
room and an extra room (can be used as an office room).

3) No garage. This is a biggie for us given the awful winter we just
had. We checked the lot information from the town info and there is a
theoretical possibility to build a garage. However, the house sits on
a granite hill with boulders in the yard and it would be quite an
effort (cost and timewise) to put in a graded driveway leading to a
garage. The house is in a spectacular neighborhood and is probably
the cheapest on the street. Every other house on the street except
this and one other house has a garage. If another house on the street
would go on sale we would most likely not be able to afford it (at
least 60k price difference). We have concluded that it is
impractical to think about a garage for this house.

4) The back and front yards are to die for. The view from the front
of the house which is into the opposite guy's front yard and woods is
simply spectacular.

5) The house has been on the market for close to a year with
progressive price reductions and still no takers. The owner has
verbally agreed with us on a price which we think is fair.

6) No fireplaces.

This is absolutely the neighborhood we want to live in. The schools
are awesome and the neighbors really take care of their property. We
are immigrants from a different culture and would like to hear some
popular opinion.

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

How about the lack of fireplaces?

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

Get it inspected by a professional building inspector.

"Arulmozhi" wrote in message
om...

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

it is for me but a lot of people don't seem to care anymore ...

How about the lack of fireplaces?

won't be a plus when you decide to sell but shouldn't be a huge minus either

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

some people won't buy a house without a garage

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

houses are normally on the market that long for one of three reasons: (a)
price, (b) big repair/structural problems or poor appearance, (c) poor
market conditions; you should be able to ascertain which factor is weighing
most heavily here

if you can live with the house and like it the only thing worth considering
is whether you are paying the appropriate price for it ... the concern is
getting rid of it when you're ready to move and any house priced properly
will sell; there will be buyers willing to make the same kinds of tradeoffs
you are thinking about, but not if you pay too much now and ask too much
later ... you need to try and get true comparable price data and you cannot
simply rely on what the mortgage appraisers say ...

in general, homes with a traditional look/plan and commonly expected
features move more quickly ... no surprise there

IMHO, from what you typed here (and for God's sake I am not an expert just a
Guy on the web) this is not your house, keep looking.

Even if you find everything perfect in any used house the minute you move in
you will get irritated with small little details. Now can you imagine if you
are already missing things that you admitted are important to you, i.e.
garage (I won't buy a house without at least 2 car garage) and a workable
floorplan.

Remember you are not renting but going to be responsible for this for a
while.

Good luck in your decision.

BTW, my thoughts are that unless you do a lot of research on the outfit,
home inspection is generally a rip off. Go into the house with a friend in
the construction biz and look at the house together. I think that the major
faults should be glaringly obvious and the hidden stuff will not be seen
anyways by the inspector.

--
------------------------------
http://iBuyMinis.Us
"Arulmozhi" wrote in message
om...
We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

1) We would like a 3/4 bdrms 2 full baths (in NE anything that has a
toilet and at least a shower stall is defined as a full bath). This
house has 3 Bdrms and 1.5 baths with the ability to convert to 2 full
baths with the main bathroom on the first level and the half a bath in
the finished basement.

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen). The kitchen is large enough to be made
into an eat-in-kitchen.

2a) It has a finished basement with a really stylish usable family
room and an extra room (can be used as an office room).

3) No garage. This is a biggie for us given the awful winter we just
had. We checked the lot information from the town info and there is a
theoretical possibility to build a garage. However, the house sits on
a granite hill with boulders in the yard and it would be quite an
effort (cost and timewise) to put in a graded driveway leading to a
garage. The house is in a spectacular neighborhood and is probably
the cheapest on the street. Every other house on the street except
this and one other house has a garage. If another house on the street
would go on sale we would most likely not be able to afford it (at
least 60k price difference). We have concluded that it is
impractical to think about a garage for this house.

4) The back and front yards are to die for. The view from the front
of the house which is into the opposite guy's front yard and woods is
simply spectacular.

5) The house has been on the market for close to a year with
progressive price reductions and still no takers. The owner has
verbally agreed with us on a price which we think is fair.

6) No fireplaces.

This is absolutely the neighborhood we want to live in. The schools
are awesome and the neighbors really take care of their property. We
are immigrants from a different culture and would like to hear some
popular opinion.

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

How about the lack of fireplaces?

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

This is absolutely the neighborhood we want to live in. The schools
are awesome and the neighbors really take care of their property.
We are immigrants from a different culture and would like to hear
some popular opinion.

You may have already answered your question: The most important thing
about a house is its location, because you can change anything else.

Some people will disagree with me on this, but I think that resale
value should be pretty low on your list of considerations when you're
looking for a house. If you find it interesting, there will be
someone else out there who will also find it interesting. I think
``difficult to sell'' is just a polite way of saying ``overpriced,''
which means that concerns about ability to resell may really be
disguised concerns about price.

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a
huge issue?

It depends on whether you like to use large formal dining areas.

How about the lack of fireplaces?

It depends on how badly you want a fireplace. It is a pain to add a
fireplace. It is much less of a pain to add a free-standing wood
stove, which will give more heat than a fireplace. There are even
some stoves designed so that they can burn with the door open for
those times that you want it to be more decorative than functional.

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance
but one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently
priced into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend
on the presence/absence of a garage?

I expect it varies by neighborhood.

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

Good question, and one that's worth answering before you buy. Have
there been progressive reductions on other houses? Was it overpriced
to begin with?

--
Andrew Koenig

Plan on adding the features you want like garage and fireplace. Find out
how much this will cost. Get the home inspected. Find out what is wrong and
how much it will cost to repair. The bathroom downstairs is a negative.
Find out how much to install one upstairs.

Then deduct the amount of all repairs/additions/changes from what other
homes in the area are selling for. Offer less than that to the sellers,
then don't budge an inch. Seems like you are the only game in town.

You will need to make these changes if you want to sell it in the future,
so plan on doing everything you want to the house over time. Eventually you
will have what you want along with the location.

It's an issue if you have to have a fireplace.

Not an issue for me. I am thinking about the lack of it being a show
stopper when I am trying to sell it back 10-15 years from now.


How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

That depends on what is common where the house is. Do all the other
house have garages?

Like I said most houses on the street save for this and another one
have garages. However there are streets nearby where houses have sold
$100K more than this one without garages. It sometimes boggles my
mind that people in New England are willing to buy houses in the
$450k-$500k range without a garage!!! I feel like I am from a
different planet here in New England. Prior to moving here I lived in
Salt Lake City and then Pittsburgh. When I lived in those cities I
would not even have considered buying a house without a garage. But
here in the price range I am looking it is optional unfortunately. My
thought process is that for someone who wants to move into this street
(very expensive) but can't pony up the cash for a median home on this
street, this home although it has some negatives like not having a
garage would be an entry point. Am I crazy to think this way?



The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

How old is the house? Did you have it inspected?

27 years. I am certainly going to have it inspected before I sign on
the dotted line. I am very obsessed with home valuations and have
done a lot of detailed analysis and have come to the conclusion that
if this home passes home inspection without structural or safety
related issues, it is fairly priced. My only fear is the reselling
part.

Thanks very much for the replies thus far.

"Arulmozhi" wrote in message
om...

27 years. I am certainly going to have it inspected before I sign on
the dotted line. I am very obsessed with home valuations and have
done a lot of detailed analysis and have come to the conclusion that
if this home passes home inspection without structural or safety
related issues, it is fairly priced. My only fear is the reselling
part.

if you've done good research on price, resale value should not be a concern;
again, properly priced homes sell ... the only exception is REALLY bad
markets ...

of course there are some people who think there IS a real estate bubble
and/or that the US economy is on the brink of destruction; they would tell
ANYONE not buy a home now ... worth a thought, I suppose ...

look, it's a lot of money you're spending; if you're "typical" this will be
your biggest asset down the line .. you might be living off the equity some
day, or it will be your children's legacy ... consider spending some $$$ on
professional advice if you have any misgivings about your own evaluations ..
at the same time, NOBODY has a crystal ball and all knowledge is imperfect

"Arulmozhi" wrote in message
om...

27 years. I am certainly going to have it inspected before I sign on
the dotted line. I am very obsessed with home valuations and have
done a lot of detailed analysis and have come to the conclusion that
if this home passes home inspection without structural or safety
related issues, it is fairly priced. My only fear is the reselling
part.

if you've done good research on price, resale value should not be a concern;
again, properly priced homes sell ... the only exception is REALLY bad
markets ...

of course there are some people who think there IS a real estate bubble
and/or that the US economy is on the brink of destruction; they would tell
ANYONE not buy a home now ... worth a thought, I suppose ...

look, it's a lot of money you're spending; if you're "typical" this will be
your biggest asset down the line .. you might be living off the equity some
day, or it will be your children's legacy ... consider spending some $$$ on
professional advice if you have any misgivings about your own evaluations ..
at the same time, NOBODY has a crystal ball and all knowledge is imperfect

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

Not for me. I personally think that having a real seperate dining
room is a big plus. Its okay that its not next to the kitchen IMHO.

How about the lack of fireplaces?

I have a wood fireplace now.. I use it maybe 3 times a year even
though
I have over a cord of wood in a pile out back. Its just a big pain in
the
butt to use. Actually if I bought another house.. the only reason I
would want
one is that I like the look of a mantle over the fireplace (need a
place to
put pictures).

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

While garages are sweet.. most of the time they become giant storage
rooms. If you are prepared to wipe snow off your car and you dont do
your own car repair/maintence.. then you probably wont miss a gargage.
IMHO the rate of appreciation does not depend on the fact you have a
garage or not. Some people dont care about gargages..others demand
them.

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

Probably because it sounds like a small house in a bigger house
neighborhood.
Does it need a lot of cleanup inside? For some reason, 1/2 the time
people
cant use their imagination when buying a home. I am buying a home with
a
large mirror wall. The wife hates it, but she just cant imagine the
wall without it. Shrug..

Sounds like you love the house and property... Interest rates are only
going to go up. Go for it.

Is the lack of a large formal dining area abutting the kitchen a huge
issue?

Not for me. I personally think that having a real seperate dining
room is a big plus. Its okay that its not next to the kitchen IMHO.

How about the lack of fireplaces?

I have a wood fireplace now.. I use it maybe 3 times a year even
though
I have over a cord of wood in a pile out back. Its just a big pain in
the
butt to use. Actually if I bought another house.. the only reason I
would want
one is that I like the look of a mantle over the fireplace (need a
place to
put pictures).

How about the lack of a garage? I view this as mostly a nuisance but
one that I am ready to put up with. I think this is currently priced
into the house but does the rate of price appreciation depend on the
presence/absence of a garage?

While garages are sweet.. most of the time they become giant storage
rooms. If you are prepared to wipe snow off your car and you dont do
your own car repair/maintence.. then you probably wont miss a gargage.
IMHO the rate of appreciation does not depend on the fact you have a
garage or not. Some people dont care about gargages..others demand
them.

The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?

Probably because it sounds like a small house in a bigger house
neighborhood.
Does it need a lot of cleanup inside? For some reason, 1/2 the time
people
cant use their imagination when buying a home. I am buying a home with
a
large mirror wall. The wife hates it, but she just cant imagine the
wall without it. Shrug..

Sounds like you love the house and property... Interest rates are only
going to go up. Go for it.

In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market. You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland

In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market. You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland

In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market. You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, (Arulmozhi)
wrote:

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen).

Dining rooms are not supposed to be adjacent to the kitchen. At most,
they can share a wall, but there should be a door between them. At
best, they're further apart than that. Across a hall sounds about
right.

Remember, the whole idea of a dining room is to separate cooking from
dining. Eating in the kitchen, or in an area adjacent to the kitchen
(the so-called breakfast nook), is for informal meals like breakfast
or for children.

Actually, the dining room is for displaying one's lovely table, often
wooden, and one's even more lovely china cabinet and china or crystal,
as well as one's collection of amazingly expensive chairs (the chairs
often cost twice what the table does, and the table isn't cheap).
Many dining rooms get no more use than that for 50 week of the year.
The other two weeks include Thanksgiving and Christmas.

At least, that's how it works for most people I know. Consider using
the room for an office or den if you have the room to eat in a
comfortable style elsewhere. Mind you, this is advice I'm better at
giving than taking, but I plead extenuating circumstances because I
love my dining-room table.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Turn to kill, not to engage." LCDR Willie Driscoll, USN

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, (Arulmozhi)
wrote:

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen).

Dining rooms are not supposed to be adjacent to the kitchen. At most,
they can share a wall, but there should be a door between them. At
best, they're further apart than that. Across a hall sounds about
right.

Remember, the whole idea of a dining room is to separate cooking from
dining. Eating in the kitchen, or in an area adjacent to the kitchen
(the so-called breakfast nook), is for informal meals like breakfast
or for children.

Actually, the dining room is for displaying one's lovely table, often
wooden, and one's even more lovely china cabinet and china or crystal,
as well as one's collection of amazingly expensive chairs (the chairs
often cost twice what the table does, and the table isn't cheap).
Many dining rooms get no more use than that for 50 week of the year.
The other two weeks include Thanksgiving and Christmas.

At least, that's how it works for most people I know. Consider using
the room for an office or den if you have the room to eat in a
comfortable style elsewhere. Mind you, this is advice I'm better at
giving than taking, but I plead extenuating circumstances because I
love my dining-room table.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Turn to kill, not to engage." LCDR Willie Driscoll, USN

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, (Arulmozhi)
wrote:

2) It has a slightly odd floor plan (officially listed as a
contemporary style house) with the living room in a different level
(mezannine level) than the kitchen. The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen).

Dining rooms are not supposed to be adjacent to the kitchen. At most,
they can share a wall, but there should be a door between them. At
best, they're further apart than that. Across a hall sounds about
right.

Remember, the whole idea of a dining room is to separate cooking from
dining. Eating in the kitchen, or in an area adjacent to the kitchen
(the so-called breakfast nook), is for informal meals like breakfast
or for children.

Actually, the dining room is for displaying one's lovely table, often
wooden, and one's even more lovely china cabinet and china or crystal,
as well as one's collection of amazingly expensive chairs (the chairs
often cost twice what the table does, and the table isn't cheap).
Many dining rooms get no more use than that for 50 week of the year.
The other two weeks include Thanksgiving and Christmas.

At least, that's how it works for most people I know. Consider using
the room for an office or den if you have the room to eat in a
comfortable style elsewhere. Mind you, this is advice I'm better at
giving than taking, but I plead extenuating circumstances because I
love my dining-room table.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Turn to kill, not to engage." LCDR Willie Driscoll, USN

(Joe Doe) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The market in our
neighborhood of New England has reached a stalemate. Prices are at
insane levels but sales volume is falling and inventory is building.
There is still strong resistance from sellers to lower prices but
buyers seem to be digging their heels in preparing for a long haul.
The market has slowed down significantly since last year although the
realtors would have you believe otherwise.

You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland


This is precisely the kind of analysis that I am currently engaged in.
Valuation is very key in this transition market and it is very
important to protect downside risk as you are suggesting. Since this
house and in general the market is not going anywhere for now I am
going to take my time to decide. I will be a little disappointed if
this house gets bought meanwhile but will learn to live with it. The
interest rates are not going up anytime soon (at least until the
elections are over next November anyway).

(Joe Doe) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The market in our
neighborhood of New England has reached a stalemate. Prices are at
insane levels but sales volume is falling and inventory is building.
There is still strong resistance from sellers to lower prices but
buyers seem to be digging their heels in preparing for a long haul.
The market has slowed down significantly since last year although the
realtors would have you believe otherwise.

You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland


This is precisely the kind of analysis that I am currently engaged in.
Valuation is very key in this transition market and it is very
important to protect downside risk as you are suggesting. Since this
house and in general the market is not going anywhere for now I am
going to take my time to decide. I will be a little disappointed if
this house gets bought meanwhile but will learn to live with it. The
interest rates are not going up anytime soon (at least until the
elections are over next November anyway).

(Joe Doe) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Arulmozhi) wrote:


The fact that the house has been on the market for over a year with
progressive price reductions with no takers scares us a lot. Why is
this house not selling?


This would seem to indicate that a years worth of buyers think the price
is not worth it to them in its present condition. You describe the
market in your area as insane and in an insane market if a house sits for
a year it gives you an idea of what the resistance is going to be like in
a tougher market.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The market in our
neighborhood of New England has reached a stalemate. Prices are at
insane levels but sales volume is falling and inventory is building.
There is still strong resistance from sellers to lower prices but
buyers seem to be digging their heels in preparing for a long haul.
The market has slowed down significantly since last year although the
realtors would have you believe otherwise.

You also seem to suggest that the house is discounted
relative to the area yet buyers do not seem to materialize. This again
seems to indicate strong resistance. Assuming no structural problems and
your analysis of the negative as being no garage/bad floorplan is correct
you have to ask yourself if you could correct these deficiencies for the
$$ difference between this house and what you think other houses should
sell for. You should also be certain that you are in a financial
position where you could sit on the house for an extended period should
you be put in a position where you are forced to sell because the market
is already telling you that this house is difficult to sell in a hot
market.


Roland


This is precisely the kind of analysis that I am currently engaged in.
Valuation is very key in this transition market and it is very
important to protect downside risk as you are suggesting. Since this
house and in general the market is not going anywhere for now I am
going to take my time to decide. I will be a little disappointed if
this house gets bought meanwhile but will learn to live with it. The
interest rates are not going up anytime soon (at least until the
elections are over next November anyway).

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, someone wrote:

We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

There is almost no point in getting our opinions on the various things
you listed. They detract from the house, that is why it is the
cheapest in the neighborhood, that is why the price has been streadily
reduced for a year. You want the neighborhood, you want the yard, is
the rest enough of a bargain to make it worthwhile to swallow the
shortcomings. Obviously many people do not think so, as it did not
sell. If you see the value in it, buy. Never mind what I think.

-v.

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, someone wrote:

We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

There is almost no point in getting our opinions on the various things
you listed. They detract from the house, that is why it is the
cheapest in the neighborhood, that is why the price has been streadily
reduced for a year. You want the neighborhood, you want the yard, is
the rest enough of a bargain to make it worthwhile to swallow the
shortcomings. Obviously many people do not think so, as it did not
sell. If you see the value in it, buy. Never mind what I think.

-v.

On 29 Jun 2003 19:18:30 -0700, someone wrote:

We live in New England (NE) where home prices have reached absolutely
crazy levels. We currently rent but have been actively looking for
the last 6 months. We've found a house that we both like but there
are some serious negatives about the house. I would like readers'
opinions on some of these.

There is almost no point in getting our opinions on the various things
you listed. They detract from the house, that is why it is the
cheapest in the neighborhood, that is why the price has been streadily
reduced for a year. You want the neighborhood, you want the yard, is
the rest enough of a bargain to make it worthwhile to swallow the
shortcomings. Obviously many people do not think so, as it did not
sell. If you see the value in it, buy. Never mind what I think.

-v.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:28:18 +0930, someone wrote:


... If they accept that offer you will be buying a block of land with a
*free* crappy house on it. Can't beat that.

Also very unlikely to happen.

-v.

Christmas Ape wrote:

Our termite inspector
missed the shower leak

Why would you EXPECT a termite inspector to find a shower leak?

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:52:19 -0500, someone wrote:


Why would you EXPECT a termite inspector to find a shower leak?

Because the wet wood brought about carpenter ants?

(I have no evidence of this, other than that thir can be a
relationship between a leak and an insect infestation, so if we call
the inspector a more general 'bug inspector', the sentiment possibly
makes sense.)

-v.

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:32:56 GMT, someone wrote:


"iBuyMinis" wrote in message
.. .

BTW, my thoughts are that unless you do a lot of research on the outfit,
home inspection is generally a rip off. Go into the house with a friend in
the construction biz and look at the house together. I think that the
major
faults should be glaringly obvious and the hidden stuff will not be seen
anyways by the inspector.



.... I've just about come to the conclusion that I may as well read up a
bit and then do without the inspectors next time if it's allowed....

??? "Allowed" by whom? I am not joking. I have *never* used a home
inspector myself in any of my buys. As a Seller, I have seen buyers
of my properties send several. One even said to me, "I can't see much
here except sheetrock." (I had just renovated the entire building,
and everything was covered up with new material.) Hidden flaws cannot
be detected by the inspector. Only visible ones can.

I suppose a lender might require some kind of inspection, but the only
lender req I am famliar with is for a "termite" (really all types of
wood destroying organisms) inspection.

House Inspectors might be a help to persons who are completely and
totally clueless, who would not recognize a visible flaw themselves.
And at some level, a second pair of eyes can be helpful, as in a dark
or cluttered basement, even if no more skilled than the buyer him/her
self.

[Now up on soapbox]
Mostly however, the inspection industry has grown up to cater to the
complete unwillingness of American consumers to take on any risk or
responsibility, coupled with their expectation of total assurance and
zero risk. It gives them the often *false* feeling that they are
assured or guaranteed, since they have had someone else come in and
tell them so. Funny how they would put this kind of trust into a
service that they wouldn't want to pay more than about $200 for.

I have seen cases of lawsuits against inspectors, but I doubt most
people manage to recover anywhere near what they would expect to.

-v.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:41:16 -0500, someone wrote:


In my old home town inspections were required by the city....

But that's not for someone to be "allowed" to BUY the property, is it?
Who are these inspectors you talk of, who approves them, who do they
work for?

Sounds like, for a Certificate of Occupancy, which is a health &
building code issue, if you want to actually use the house you just
bought.

That would be different from the usual pre-purchase inspection. You
cold still buy at your own risk, couldn't you?

-v.

v wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:41:16 -0500, someone wrote:

In my old home town inspections were required by the city....

But that's not for someone to be "allowed" to BUY the property, is it?

No, before you can sell it you have to have an inspection.

Who are these inspectors you talk of, who approves them, who do they
work for?

They are "independent" inspectors. I don't know who approves them but
the city had a long list (several pages) of them. I had no idea who to
call so I looked through the list and called a guy who lived in the
neighborhood.

Sounds like, for a Certificate of Occupancy, which is a health &
building code issue, if you want to actually use the house you just
bought.

That would be different from the usual pre-purchase inspection. You
cold still buy at your own risk, couldn't you?

You can't sell it without the inspection.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:41:00 -0500, Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net
wrote:

http://www.stlouispark.org/Moving/Moving.html

It would seem that it would not be enforceable if private sales
between individuals are involved!

Maybe where you live but I sold the house 6 years ago and from the above
web site they are still doing it so obviously it can be enforced there.


Damn! And people complain about living in a community with a Home
Owners Association!

Is this community located in the United States? Perhaps this is what
the rest of the country has to look forward to if the government
continues on the road it has started to travel with respect to
removing individuals rights!

wrote:
Is this community located in the United States?

Uh, yeah.

Perhaps this is what
the rest of the country has to look forward to if the government
continues on the road it has started to travel with respect to
removing individuals rights!

Enforcing the building codes is removing individual rights?

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:20:51 -0500, Bill Seurer
wrote:


Enforcing the building codes is removing individual rights?


Restricting the individual's ability to buy and sell their property is
not enforcing building codes. A functioning code enforcement authority
with adequate inspectors would be a step in the right direction, it
appears that this community is relying on "self incrimination" as a
means of enforcement!

Again this appears to be more restrictive and intrusive than living in
a deed restricted community with an HOA!

v wrote:
Traditionally, the way to enforce the code, was that the building
could not be *occupied* unless it complied. However, you could sell
it to someone who was willing to either fix it up or demolish it, and
it was up to the buyer.

What if granny can't afford the upgrades? She *can't* sell???? This
law seems like it would actually encourage more substandard properties
to be in existance, as the current owners would have to sit on them
as-is, rather than sell them to someone who might be capable of fixing
them up!

You musn't have checked that link:

Buyers

In most cases, the seller makes the code corrections. However, buyers
may obtain a temporary property maintenance certificate if they sign an
agreement acknowledging the work orders and agreeing to make all
required code work within a specific time period.

Housing inspections are aimed at protecting the community's overall
housing stock and avoiding unsafe conditions and major deterioration. A
City housing inspection is neither a home seller disclosure statement
nor a buyer protection program. We always suggest buyers hire their own
private inspector.

Are you working with a realtor ? What is their opinion ? An experienced knowledgeable realtor was very helpful at pointing out detriments to houses my husband and I were smitten with. Having shown and tried to sell hundreds of homes, they know what buyers want and what turns them away.
What kind of market are you in ? If you are in a sellers market and the house is selling much less than the neighborhood is worth you have cause to be concerned. I disagree with the poster who said not to worry about resale because someone will be interested. If you had to move or were forced to sell your home could you afford to keep it on the market for a year ? Formal dining rooms aren't a necessity but in higher priced homes they are still expected. I've seen a lot of new construction with very modest dining rooms. These were expensive houses too. Families are smaller, most people don't own those huge tables anymore.
An odd layout can affect the liveability of the house and pose complications in remodeling. Different levels in the house can affect resale in the future. The baby boomers are getting older and there will be a great demand for one level houses that can be easily converted for the handicapped.

The fireplace isn't a big issue. There are some very realistic electric ones. they're certain to be much cheaper and realistic in the future.
Do you need to grade a driveway to use a garage ? Where are they parking now ? Could a covered entry in front of the house work ? That would cost less than a garage, afford some protection and give a more formal look to the house.
Does the house work with the way you live ? Does the style go with your furnishings or work with what your dreams are. Is it convenient to shopping and work ?
The neighborhood is important, but you are going to spend most of your time inside the house looking at the walls, flooor, kitchen etc. Most homes main living area is the rear of the house. Unless you have a porch or really use your front room you aren't going to see the neighbors property except when you are leaving home.

[quote=Arulmozhi]
1) We would like a 3/4 bdrms 2 full baths (in NE anything that has a
toilet and at least a shower stall is defined as a full bath). This
house has 3 Bdrms and 1.5 baths with the ability to convert to 2 full
baths with the main bathroom on the first level and the half a bath in
the finished basement.

The formal dining area is in a
separate room on the same level as the kitchen but not adjacent to it
(it is opposite the kitchen). The kitchen is large enough to be made
into an eat-in-kitchen.

The house is in a spectacular neighborhood and is probably
the cheapest on the street. Every other house on the street except
this and one other house has a garage. If another house on the street
would go on sale we would most likely not be able to afford it (at
least 60k price difference).

Have you been inside other houses in this neighborhood ? You didn't mention what kind of flooring. Does it have the same qualitiy of materials and workmanship and square footage as the houses you are comparing it to ? Has it had any DIY work to it that is not well done ? We were in the market for a long time and it amazed me the differences in some houses in neighborhoods. I also had the opportunity to go in a few houses I had always loved (but well out of our price range) which were shocking inside. I thought they would be glamorous southern houses. but they had seventies panelling and wallpaper shag carpet, vinyl floors etc. I don't mean to imply your house is like that but it was surprising to see it in a wealthy neighborhood. Most of the surrounding houses had refinished hardwood floors , updated kitchens & baths,granite countertops tiled bathrooms, walk in closets, and all the other ammenites that buyers want in the newer houses.

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:27:47 +0000, someone wrote:


Are you working with a realtor ? What is their opinion ? An
experienced knowledgeable realtor was very helpful at pointing out
detriments to houses my husband and I were smitten with. Having shown
and tried to sell hundreds of homes, they know what buyers want and
what turns them away.

Huh? YOU were the buyer and only YOU know what YOU want. Some of
OP's Q's ae nearly self answering. The house is an oddball and has
not sold in a long time. So does OP want it or not? OP says some
things are big to them yet asks if they should buy?

All that matters is what is satisfactory to THEM. Maybe they can buy
it cheap, and then they should expect to sell it the same way. Buying
for resale is often a crock - YOU are the one who has to live in it -
how much of a warm and fuzzy will it give you, to live in a house you
don't like "but it'll have great resale". Or pass up a house that you
love because someone thinks that someone else won't like it at some
unknown time in the future. Don't torture yourself with what you
think others will think. Buy what you want and live there.

If OP is so worried, they should NOT buy this house. Let someone else
get the bargain.


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