Gren wrote:

Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an indepedant
inspector and I converged and met regarding a house we're looking to
buy. We love this house, and really have begun to dream about what we
can do with it. It's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but nothing
crazy... or so I thought.

Enter.. the inspector. "Hmm.. well.. that roof is an issue" "Oh?"
It turns out, the seller never replaced the roof.. they just layered
it. 4 -6 layers of shingles. We had an opportunity to get in the
attic and see the roof from the inside-out and found there was NO
plywood sublayer for the shingles. They were nail directly onto the
rafters and then scaled. No sublayer.. no tar paper.. just shingles.
4-5 layers of 'em.

SO. (1) We need a new roof.. the whole thing ripped up and replaced
with plywood (or whatever that first layer is) and shingles.

Next thing. (2) 60 amp electrical service to the house. (ugh)
ORIGINAL and ACTIVE knob and tube wiring throughout. I would say
10-20% of the house is knob and tube/fuses.. the rest on a curcuit
breaker. Need to have it updated to 100/200 amp service.

annnddd.. (3) some wood boring beetle damage in the basement. One
load-bearing girder and the stairs leading into the basement need to
be replaced/treated.

that's the major stuff. we've asked the seller to address these
issues.. I'm just afraid of the fact that although we've fallen in
love with this home, the roof might be a serious problem and could
lead to us passing on the home.

I honestly don't know how much these various tasks will cost the
seller to fix. I'm guessing (I could be way off) but.. 10k for the
roof, 1.5k for the electrical (60 amp to 100 amp) and 1.5k for girder
to be jacked/replaced and new stairs. And this is to be performed by
licensed contractors, not by the seller's buddy handyman.

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for seller to
repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much higher, I dunno)

need advice.

Please clarify: Do you have a signed contract on this property?
If so, does it state that the seller will perform repairs the
inspector finds? Or, does it say you can back out of the contract.

If not under contract, all you can do is make an offer based on
the defects found.

While the roof and beetle-bored beams may be an issue, the 60 Amp
service and K&T wiring is not unless mandated by FHA or the local
city.

I'm not being critical; I just get the feeling that you need to get
up to speed on the whole home-purchase process.

Jim

Gren wrote:

Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an
indepedant inspector and I converged and met regarding a house

(details snipped)

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for
seller to repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much
higher, I dunno)

need advice.

Talk with your broker about making the repair issue part of
your offer, there are several ways that can be accomplished.
You might need to pay an engineer and/or general contractor
for a firm estimate, but you'll need one. If your state has
laws requiring full seller disclosure of all known problems,
the sellers might be required by law to add these issues to
their statement if they haven't already done so. IOW, they
can't just cross their fingers and try to blow them past
other interested buyers. Your broker might need to gently
remind their broker about that :-)

Like any other deal, it all depends on how bad they want to
sell the place, and if they're willing to meet your demands.
That's why there are offers and counters. You can ask for
the moon if your broker will work with you and try to get
it, but the seller can always laugh at you and tell you to
go away.

--
No more big'uns for me, now I'm a 'Venture Capitalist'.
I've learned to totally appreciate 'Small Firms'.

I would try to find out if that was once a legitimate method of building a
roof. If not I would be concerned about how the whole house is built and
walk away. I don't think your description of the roof can be accurate.
Shingles would not have the strength to do their job nailed directly to
rafters no matter how many layers you got. The first layer has to be
something special.




"Gren" wrote in message
om...
Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an indepedant
inspector and I converged and met regarding a house we're looking to
buy. We love this house, and really have begun to dream about what we
can do with it. It's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but nothing
crazy... or so I thought.

Enter.. the inspector. "Hmm.. well.. that roof is an issue" "Oh?"
It turns out, the seller never replaced the roof.. they just layered
it. 4 -6 layers of shingles. We had an opportunity to get in the
attic and see the roof from the inside-out and found there was NO
plywood sublayer for the shingles. They were nail directly onto the
rafters and then scaled. No sublayer.. no tar paper.. just shingles.
4-5 layers of 'em.

SO. (1) We need a new roof.. the whole thing ripped up and replaced
with plywood (or whatever that first layer is) and shingles.

Next thing. (2) 60 amp electrical service to the house. (ugh)
ORIGINAL and ACTIVE knob and tube wiring throughout. I would say
10-20% of the house is knob and tube/fuses.. the rest on a curcuit
breaker. Need to have it updated to 100/200 amp service.

annnddd.. (3) some wood boring beetle damage in the basement. One
load-bearing girder and the stairs leading into the basement need to
be replaced/treated.

that's the major stuff. we've asked the seller to address these
issues.. I'm just afraid of the fact that although we've fallen in
love with this home, the roof might be a serious problem and could
lead to us passing on the home.

I honestly don't know how much these various tasks will cost the
seller to fix. I'm guessing (I could be way off) but.. 10k for the
roof, 1.5k for the electrical (60 amp to 100 amp) and 1.5k for girder
to be jacked/replaced and new stairs. And this is to be performed by
licensed contractors, not by the seller's buddy handyman.

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for seller to
repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much higher, I dunno)

need advice.

Gren wrote:

Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an indepedant
inspector and I converged and met regarding a house we're looking to
buy. We love this house, and really have begun to dream about what we
can do with it. It's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but nothing
crazy... or so I thought.

Enter.. the inspector. "Hmm.. well.. that roof is an issue" "Oh?"
It turns out, the seller never replaced the roof.. they just layered
it. 4 -6 layers of shingles. We had an opportunity to get in the
attic and see the roof from the inside-out and found there was NO
plywood sublayer for the shingles. They were nail directly onto the
rafters and then scaled. No sublayer.. no tar paper.. just shingles.
4-5 layers of 'em.

SO. (1) We need a new roof.. the whole thing ripped up and replaced
with plywood (or whatever that first layer is) and shingles.

Next thing. (2) 60 amp electrical service to the house. (ugh)
ORIGINAL and ACTIVE knob and tube wiring throughout. I would say
10-20% of the house is knob and tube/fuses.. the rest on a curcuit
breaker. Need to have it updated to 100/200 amp service.

annnddd.. (3) some wood boring beetle damage in the basement. One
load-bearing girder and the stairs leading into the basement need to
be replaced/treated.

that's the major stuff. we've asked the seller to address these
issues.. I'm just afraid of the fact that although we've fallen in
love with this home, the roof might be a serious problem and could
lead to us passing on the home.

I honestly don't know how much these various tasks will cost the
seller to fix. I'm guessing (I could be way off) but.. 10k for the
roof, 1.5k for the electrical (60 amp to 100 amp) and 1.5k for girder
to be jacked/replaced and new stairs. And this is to be performed by
licensed contractors, not by the seller's buddy handyman.

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for seller to
repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much higher, I dunno)

need advice.
WALK,,, W A L K and dont look back...

On 14 Mar 2004 18:04:36 -0800, (Gren) wrote:

Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an indepedant
inspector and I converged and met regarding a house we're looking to
buy. We love this house, and really have begun to dream about what we
can do with it. It's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but nothing
crazy... or so I thought.

Enter.. the inspector. "Hmm.. well.. that roof is an issue" "Oh?"
It turns out, the seller never replaced the roof.. they just layered
it. 4 -6 layers of shingles. We had an opportunity to get in the
attic and see the roof from the inside-out and found there was NO
plywood sublayer for the shingles. They were nail directly onto the
rafters and then scaled. No sublayer.. no tar paper.. just shingles.
4-5 layers of 'em.

SO. (1) We need a new roof.. the whole thing ripped up and replaced
with plywood (or whatever that first layer is) and shingles.

So?

Next thing. (2) 60 amp electrical service to the house. (ugh)
ORIGINAL and ACTIVE knob and tube wiring throughout. I would say
10-20% of the house is knob and tube/fuses.. the rest on a curcuit
breaker. Need to have it updated to 100/200 amp service.

So?

annnddd.. (3) some wood boring beetle damage in the basement. One
load-bearing girder and the stairs leading into the basement need to
be replaced/treated.

So?

that's the major stuff. we've asked the seller to address these
issues.. I'm just afraid of the fact that although we've fallen in
love with this home, the roof might be a serious problem and could
lead to us passing on the home.

Bingo! That's your problem. You're not willing to walk away from the
house.

I honestly don't know how much these various tasks will cost the
seller to fix. I'm guessing (I could be way off) but.. 10k for the
roof, 1.5k for the electrical (60 amp to 100 amp) and 1.5k for girder
to be jacked/replaced and new stairs. And this is to be performed by
licensed contractors, not by the seller's buddy handyman.

Or the new buyer. Nothing says the owner has to or will fix them.

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for seller to
repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much higher, I dunno)

Get estimates from professionals before you guess yourself to the poor
house.

need advice.

Take the deal as is, ask seller to do repairs or ask seller to drop
the price by the cost of the repairs. If you are intersted in the
second two options, be prepared to walk away from the deal.

But you already knew this.

Jeff

Gren wrote:
Oh boy. Just this past friday, my wife, our broker, an indepedant
inspector and I converged and met regarding a house we're looking to
buy. We love this house, and really have begun to dream about what we
can do with it. It's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but nothing
crazy... or so I thought.

Enter.. the inspector. "Hmm.. well.. that roof is an issue" "Oh?"
It turns out, the seller never replaced the roof.. they just layered
it. 4 -6 layers of shingles. We had an opportunity to get in the
attic and see the roof from the inside-out and found there was NO
plywood sublayer for the shingles. They were nail directly onto the
rafters and then scaled. No sublayer.. no tar paper.. just shingles.
4-5 layers of 'em.

Since rafters are generally 16" - 24" apart, I suspect that is not
exactly the case. However it does appear you should plan on a new roof.
Get an estimate from a professional to bring it up to norms.


SO. (1) We need a new roof.. the whole thing ripped up and replaced
with plywood (or whatever that first layer is) and shingles.

Next thing. (2) 60 amp electrical service to the house. (ugh)
ORIGINAL and ACTIVE knob and tube wiring throughout. I would say
10-20% of the house is knob and tube/fuses.. the rest on a curcuit
breaker. Need to have it updated to 100/200 amp service.

I would plan on updating it myself, but as noted by another, you may not
need to. Knob and tube was a great wiring system. However it is likely you
don't have the capacity to handle modern home demands any more and a new
system is in order.


annnddd.. (3) some wood boring beetle damage in the basement. One
load-bearing girder and the stairs leading into the basement need to
be replaced/treated.

Yea, again get an estimated. Local situations and the actual job on all
these issues can make a very big difference in the cost of correcting them.

If you like the home, then nothing you noted should cross it off the
list. However everything you noted should be a part of the price you should
be willing to pay.

A note here about price. I'll guess your broker is getting paid based
on the sales price. That makes him or her the seller's agent, not yours.
If this is the case, find a professional who will help you for a flat fee
and let them help you set a bid price for the home after taking into
consideration everything you found.

It amazes me that people think the buyer's relater is on their side when
they are paid to get the buyer to pay more.


that's the major stuff. we've asked the seller to address these
issues.. I'm just afraid of the fact that although we've fallen in
love with this home, the roof might be a serious problem and could
lead to us passing on the home.

I honestly don't know how much these various tasks will cost the
seller to fix. I'm guessing (I could be way off) but.. 10k for the
roof, 1.5k for the electrical (60 amp to 100 amp) and 1.5k for girder
to be jacked/replaced and new stairs. And this is to be performed by
licensed contractors, not by the seller's buddy handyman.

purchase price for home.. 154k. my 'estimated' cost for seller to
repair these issues: at least 13k. (could be much higher, I dunno)

need advice.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:13:47 GMT, Jeff Cochran
wrote:

Take the deal as is, ask seller to do repairs or ask seller to drop
the price by the cost of the repairs. If you are intersted in the
second two options, be prepared to walk away from the deal.

Don't let the sellers do any repairs: walk away if they won't adjust
the selling price of the house or give you a credit toward those
repairs.

Art wrote:

I would try to find out if that was once a legitimate method of building a
roof. If not I would be concerned about how the whole house is built and
walk away. I don't think your description of the roof can be accurate.
Shingles would not have the strength to do their job nailed directly to
rafters no matter how many layers you got. The first layer has to be
something special.

I'm guessing cedar. We recently sold a house we bought long ago with a roof
just like this. 4 or more layers of asphalt over the original cedar roof.
There were no problems buying then, or selling now, as long as the roof
didn't leak. That's all they cared about was leaking.

PRose