I'm in a shared mortgage/home ownership situation where in the
relationship with the co-mortgager/co-owner has gone sour. She says
she's going to buy me out, yet I know she has not the means to do
this. I've had enough of what I consider to be this person's game
playing, and I've decided to go forward with steps to force sale of
the house if necessary, in order to free myself of this whole shared
home mortgage/ownership 'mistake'.

However, my copy of the mortgage agreement has mysteriously gone
missing from my filing cabinet (which I never thought to lock, until
now) while the co-mortgager/co-owner refuses have photocopied for me
(let alone let me see), her copy of the mortgage agreement. When I
went to the bank (which the mortgage is with) to ask for a replacement
copy of the mortgage agreement, they promised they would get it to me
the next day. Then they stalled and dragged their feet and it looked
to me that they just weren't very motivated in getting this to me.
(Note it just so happens that the co-mortgager/co-owner is on cozy
terms with the senior loans officer at the bank.)

Then after pressing them, they finally handed me a mere two page
mortgage balance statement with the co-mortgager's and my signatures
on it and tried to tell me that this was a complete photocopy of the
original mortgage agreement. Not wanting to argue then and there, I
took what they gave me and consulted with a real estate lawyer. The
lawyer promptly informed me that the bank has no legal obligation to
provide me with a replacement copy of my original mortgage agreement.
When I asked him, "How then can I go about obtaining a copy of my
original mortgage agreement?", he briefly mumblied something about
"I'd start with the Land Title Office, see what happens, and then go
from there...". Basically in a round about way he basically made it
clear that he wasn't going to tell me exactly how to go about this
just so I could then go about the process of getting it on my own.
Unfortunately I don't have gobs and gobs of money just lying around to
pay him thousands of dollars to run legal errands for me.

As such, I'm in somewhat of a bind. Therefore I'm requesting here any
info or guidance anyone might be willing and able to provide me, as to
how I might go about securing a replacment copy of my mortgage
agreement. Thanks in advance.

Ken

"Ken" writes:

I'm in a shared mortgage/home ownership situation where in the
relationship with the co-mortgager/co-owner has gone sour. She says
she's going to buy me out, yet I know she has not the means to do
this. I've had enough of what I consider to be this person's game
playing, and I've decided to go forward with steps to force sale of
the house if necessary, in order to free myself of this whole shared
home mortgage/ownership 'mistake'.

However, my copy of the mortgage agreement has mysteriously gone
missing from my filing cabinet (which I never thought to lock, until
now) while the co-mortgager/co-owner refuses have photocopied for me
(let alone let me see), her copy of the mortgage agreement. When I
went to the bank (which the mortgage is with) to ask for a replacement
copy of the mortgage agreement, they promised they would get it to me
the next day. Then they stalled and dragged their feet and it looked
to me that they just weren't very motivated in getting this to me.
(Note it just so happens that the co-mortgager/co-owner is on cozy
terms with the senior loans officer at the bank.)

Then after pressing them, they finally handed me a mere two page
mortgage balance statement with the co-mortgager's and my signatures
on it and tried to tell me that this was a complete photocopy of the
original mortgage agreement. Not wanting to argue then and there, I
took what they gave me and consulted with a real estate lawyer. The
lawyer promptly informed me that the bank has no legal obligation to
provide me with a replacement copy of my original mortgage agreement.
When I asked him, "How then can I go about obtaining a copy of my
original mortgage agreement?", he briefly mumblied something about
"I'd start with the Land Title Office, see what happens, and then go
from there...". Basically in a round about way he basically made it
clear that he wasn't going to tell me exactly how to go about this
just so I could then go about the process of getting it on my own.
Unfortunately I don't have gobs and gobs of money just lying around to
pay him thousands of dollars to run legal errands for me.


Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record, then that's where to go.

Or you could tell the president of the bank what's going on and how
the senior loadn officers aren't providing you information you need
and you're not sure if you can keep repaying the loan without it.

Or you could tell you ex that you need a copy of the agreement or
you'll have to suspend payment and have a nice friggin life. You'll
have to be prepared to take a credit rating hit if she decides to join
you in non-payment.

Here in the US at least, the mortgage which documents the bank's lien
against the property and their right to foreclose on it in case of
loan default, is a separate document from the Note which outlines the
terms of the loan repayment, payments, due dates, parties owning
against the loan. The Note typically isn't a matter of recorded
public record and would be something you'd need to get from the bank
anyway.


--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

On Apr 13, 7:21 am, (Todd H.) wrote:
"Ken" writes:
I'm in a shared mortgage/home ownership situation where in the
relationship with the co-mortgager/co-owner has gone sour. She says
she's going to buy me out, yet I know she has not the means to do
this. I've had enough of what I consider to be this person's game
playing, and I've decided to go forward with steps to force sale of
the house if necessary, in order to free myself of this whole shared
home mortgage/ownership 'mistake'.

However, my copy of the mortgage agreement has mysteriously gone
missing from my filing cabinet (which I never thought to lock, until
now) while the co-mortgager/co-owner refuses have photocopied for me
(let alone let me see), her copy of the mortgage agreement. When I
went to the bank (which the mortgage is with) to ask for a replacement
copy of the mortgage agreement, they promised they would get it to me
the next day. Then they stalled and dragged their feet and it looked
to me that they just weren't very motivated in getting this to me.
(Note it just so happens that the co-mortgager/co-owner is on cozy
terms with the senior loans officer at the bank.)

Then after pressing them, they finally handed me a mere two page
mortgage balance statement with the co-mortgager's and my signatures
on it and tried to tell me that this was a complete photocopy of the
original mortgage agreement. Not wanting to argue then and there, I
took what they gave me and consulted with a real estate lawyer. The
lawyer promptly informed me that the bank has no legal obligation to
provide me with a replacement copy of my original mortgage agreement.
When I asked him, "How then can I go about obtaining a copy of my
original mortgage agreement?", he briefly mumblied something about
"I'd start with the Land Title Office, see what happens, and then go
from there...". Basically in a round about way he basically made it
clear that he wasn't going to tell me exactly how to go about this
just so I could then go about the process of getting it on my own.
Unfortunately I don't have gobs and gobs of money just lying around to
pay him thousands of dollars to run legal errands for me.

Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record, then that's where to go.

Or you could tell the president of the bank what's going on and how
the senior loadn officers aren't providing you information you need
and you're not sure if you can keep repaying the loan without it.

Or you could tell you ex that you need a copy of the agreement or
you'll have to suspend payment and have a nice friggin life. You'll
have to be prepared to take a credit rating hit if she decides to join
you in non-payment.

Here in the US at least, the mortgage which documents the bank's lien
against the property and their right to foreclose on it in case of
loan default, is a separate document from the Note which outlines the
terms of the loan repayment, payments, due dates, parties owning
against the loan. The Note typically isn't a matter of recorded
public record and would be something you'd need to get from the bank
anyway.

--
Todd H. http://toddh.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



That's what I was thinking too. I think here in NJ what's recorded
at the Hall of Records or similar is the existence of the mortgage
lien on the property and basic information, not the entire loan
document.

But I have to wonder, why the big panic over the loan document
itself? The most important things to know are the balance and if
there is any penalty or fees for early pay off. You already know the
balance and the fact that both your signatures are on the document,
making you both responsible for the debt. If you really want the
actual full document, then I'd go back to the bank and continue to
press them. Surely, somewhere, they have the full document. They
may charge you to retrieve it though.

Before you go the forced sale route, I'd do everything possible to get
it resolved reasonably. If they won't agree to that directly, then
I'd try to get them into mediation, which might be a face saving
alternative for them. If you go the forced sale route, it'd going to
be more costly for both of you.

wrote in message
oups.com...

[...]

But I have to wonder, why the big panic over the loan document
itself? The most important things to know are the balance and if
there is any penalty or fees for early pay off. You already know the
balance and the fact that both your signatures are on the document,
making you both responsible for the debt.

Well this is where my ignorance must be showing I guess, but it seems to me
that when I signed the mortgage agreement I signed a legal contract,
complete with clauses, conditions, and other fine print. My co-mortgager
was the go getter in all of this while I was kind of just passively going
along. There may very well be stuff in there that I need to be aware of in
order to proceed without finding myself confronted with some unpleasant
surprises. She seems pretty smug these days, giving me the impression that
she's received counsel and she has something up her sleeve I'm just not
aware of. Plus the fact that my copy of the mortgage agreement has gone
missing from my filing cabinet, with no likely explanation other than that
somebody purposely removed it, has me quite eager to get my copy back into
my own hands so I can study it, asap.

If you really want the
actual full document, then I'd go back to the bank and continue to
press them. Surely, somewhere, they have the full document. They
may charge you to retrieve it though.

I wouldn't expect to not be charged something for it. But being that they
(like my co-mortgager) know I happen to be in the midst of a cash crunch
these days, I just hope they don't try to make it hard for me by inflating
their rate. g [If I being a tad paranoid here, it's only 'cause I sooo
don't want to get blind-sided or taken advantage of in some way (as has
occurred in the recent past to do with this individual) in this matter.]

Before you go the forced sale route, I'd do everything possible to get
it resolved reasonably. If they won't agree to that directly, then
I'd try to get them into mediation, which might be a face saving
alternative for them. If you go the forced sale route, it'd going to
be more costly for both of you.

Yes, mediation is something I thought of and even suggested. But with this
individual, she just will not cooperate unless and until it is somehow made
overwhelmingly and painfully self-evident to her to be in her self interest
to do so. To oversimplify a long story, she's a power tripper. As such she
is blinded to 'seeing the forest for the trees'. At this point I see no
hope of anyone or anything pursuading her to be reasonable; until after the
fact, which of course, will then be only too late to do her (and me) any
good in this matter.


Ken




On Apr 13, 7:21 am, (Todd H.) wrote:


Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record, then that's where to go.

Or you could tell the president of the bank what's going on and how
the senior loadn officers aren't providing you information you need
and you're not sure if you can keep repaying the loan without it.

Or you could tell you ex that you need a copy of the agreement or
you'll have to suspend payment and have a nice friggin life. You'll
have to be prepared to take a credit rating hit if she decides to join
you in non-payment.

Here in the US at least, the mortgage which documents the bank's lien
against the property and their right to foreclose on it in case of
loan default, is a separate document from the Note which outlines the
terms of the loan repayment, payments, due dates, parties owning
against the loan. The Note typically isn't a matter of recorded
public record and would be something you'd need to get from the bank
anyway.

--
Todd H. http://toddh.net/- Hide quoted text -



"Ken" writes:
I'm in a shared mortgage/home ownership situation where in the
relationship with the co-mortgager/co-owner has gone sour. She says
she's going to buy me out, yet I know she has not the means to do
this. I've had enough of what I consider to be this person's game
playing, and I've decided to go forward with steps to force sale of
the house if necessary, in order to free myself of this whole shared
home mortgage/ownership 'mistake'.

However, my copy of the mortgage agreement has mysteriously gone
missing from my filing cabinet (which I never thought to lock, until
now) while the co-mortgager/co-owner refuses have photocopied for me
(let alone let me see), her copy of the mortgage agreement. When I
went to the bank (which the mortgage is with) to ask for a replacement
copy of the mortgage agreement, they promised they would get it to me
the next day. Then they stalled and dragged their feet and it looked
to me that they just weren't very motivated in getting this to me.
(Note it just so happens that the co-mortgager/co-owner is on cozy
terms with the senior loans officer at the bank.)

Then after pressing them, they finally handed me a mere two page
mortgage balance statement with the co-mortgager's and my signatures
on it and tried to tell me that this was a complete photocopy of the
original mortgage agreement. Not wanting to argue then and there, I
took what they gave me and consulted with a real estate lawyer. The
lawyer promptly informed me that the bank has no legal obligation to
provide me with a replacement copy of my original mortgage agreement.
When I asked him, "How then can I go about obtaining a copy of my
original mortgage agreement?", he briefly mumblied something about
"I'd start with the Land Title Office, see what happens, and then go
from there...". Basically in a round about way he basically made it
clear that he wasn't going to tell me exactly how to go about this
just so I could then go about the process of getting it on my own.
Unfortunately I don't have gobs and gobs of money just lying around to
pay him thousands of dollars to run legal errands for me.

"Todd H." wrote in message ...



Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record,

Well, this is what it is I'm trying to find out.

(FYI, I forgot to mention, I'm in B.C, Canada.)

then that's where to go.
Or you could tell the president of the bank what's going on and how
the senior loadn officers aren't providing you information you need
and you're not sure if you can keep repaying the loan without it.

Or you could tell you ex that you need a copy of the agreement or
you'll have to suspend payment and have a nice friggin life. You'll
have to be prepared to take a credit rating hit if she decides to join
you in non-payment.

Well this person I'm

Here in the US at least, the mortgage which documents the bank's lien
against the property and their right to foreclose on it in case of
loan default, is a separate document from the Note which outlines the
terms of the loan repayment, payments, due dates, parties owning
against the loan. The Note typically isn't a matter of recorded
public record and would be something you'd need to get from the bank
anyway.

Yes, now that you mention it, the idea of the Land Title Office, a public
records repository, holding a copy of one's mortgage agreement wouldn't seem
to make a lot of sense, would it. I have been planning on going back to the
bank to insist they give me what they've so far evaded providing. But I
have to bear in mind what that lawyer told me, in that the bank DOES NOT
HAVE TO give me a replacement copy of my mortgage agreement. Such would be
completely voluntary on their part. So I have to press for what I want
without being perceived as any way objectionable or annoying in any way. So
this time I will ask to see the most senior loans officer (the one that I
sense my co-mortgager is 'cozy' with...). However, in case I continue to
get the run around yet again, I first want to get as many of my "ducks in
order" as possible. Maybe if I can go in there armed with more knowledge
and awareness pertinent to what I'm requesting, they won't feel quite so at
liberty to underestimate and insult my intelligence this time.

Ken



--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/


"Ken" writes:

I'm in a shared mortgage/home ownership situation where in the
relationship with the co-mortgager/co-owner has gone sour. She says
she's going to buy me out, yet I know she has not the means to do
this. I've had enough of what I consider to be this person's game
playing, and I've decided to go forward with steps to force sale of
the house if necessary, in order to free myself of this whole shared
home mortgage/ownership 'mistake'.

However, my copy of the mortgage agreement has mysteriously gone
missing from my filing cabinet (which I never thought to lock, until
now) while the co-mortgager/co-owner refuses have photocopied for me
(let alone let me see), her copy of the mortgage agreement. When I
went to the bank (which the mortgage is with) to ask for a replacement
copy of the mortgage agreement, they promised they would get it to me
the next day. Then they stalled and dragged their feet and it looked
to me that they just weren't very motivated in getting this to me.
(Note it just so happens that the co-mortgager/co-owner is on cozy
terms with the senior loans officer at the bank.)

Then after pressing them, they finally handed me a mere two page
mortgage balance statement with the co-mortgager's and my signatures
on it and tried to tell me that this was a complete photocopy of the
original mortgage agreement. Not wanting to argue then and there, I
took what they gave me and consulted with a real estate lawyer. The
lawyer promptly informed me that the bank has no legal obligation to
provide me with a replacement copy of my original mortgage agreement.
When I asked him, "How then can I go about obtaining a copy of my
original mortgage agreement?", he briefly mumblied something about
"I'd start with the Land Title Office, see what happens, and then go
from there...". Basically in a round about way he basically made it
clear that he wasn't going to tell me exactly how to go about this
just so I could then go about the process of getting it on my own.
Unfortunately I don't have gobs and gobs of money just lying around to
pay him thousands of dollars to run legal errands for me.

"Ken Moiarty" writes:

"Todd H." wrote in message ...



Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record,

Well, this is what it is I'm trying to find out.

(FYI, I forgot to mention, I'm in B.C, Canada.)

Here's a group that might tell you your rights to a copy of your
agreement:
http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/default.asp


THese folks in BC may be able to tell you more or be a place to lodge
a complaint against the professional conduct of a mortgage lender,
asking for the Ministry of Finance:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/bvprd/bc/channe...hannelID=-8353


Or,
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/responsibil...e/overview.htm

Or submit a complaint against the institution directly. Banks really
hate it when their regulators contact them about such issues.
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/Complaintfo...ries_form.aspx


Be succcinct and simply indicate your desire for a copy of your
mortgage agreement because it has been lost and that your lender has
not been cooperative in providing you a copy of your full mortgage
agreement. Leave all the drama out of it.

Good luck!

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Good stuff. Thanks.

Ken

--


----------------------------------------------------
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from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com

"Todd H." wrote in message ...
"Ken Moiarty" writes:

"Todd H." wrote in message ...



Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record,

Well, this is what it is I'm trying to find out.

(FYI, I forgot to mention, I'm in B.C, Canada.)

Here's a group that might tell you your rights to a copy of your
agreement:
http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/default.asp


THese folks in BC may be able to tell you more or be a place to lodge
a complaint against the professional conduct of a mortgage lender,
asking for the Ministry of Finance:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/bvprd/bc/channe...hannelID=-8353


Or,
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/responsibil...e/overview.htm

Or submit a complaint against the institution directly. Banks really
hate it when their regulators contact them about such issues.
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/Complaintfo...ries_form.aspx


Be succcinct and simply indicate your desire for a copy of your
mortgage agreement because it has been lost and that your lender has
not been cooperative in providing you a copy of your full mortgage
agreement. Leave all the drama out of it.

Good luck!

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

On Apr 13, 10:18 pm, "Ken Moiarty" wrote:
Good stuff. Thanks.

Ken

--

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from MailFrontier, Inc.http://info.mailfrontier.com



"Todd H." wrote in ...
"Ken Moiarty" writes:

"Todd H." wrote in ...

Sounds like a ****ty situation. Sorry to hear it!

If the Land Title Office is where they record mortgages as a matter of
public record,

Well, this is what it is I'm trying to find out.

(FYI, I forgot to mention, I'm in B.C, Canada.)

Here's a group that might tell you your rights to a copy of your
agreement:
http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/default.asp

THese folks in BC may be able to tell you more or be a place to lodge
a complaint against the professional conduct of a mortgage lender,
asking for the Ministry of Finance:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/bvprd/bc/channe...hannelID=-8353

Or,
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/responsibil...e/overview.htm

Or submit a complaint against the institution directly. Banks really
hate it when their regulators contact them about such issues.
http://www.fic.gov.bc.ca/Complaintfo...ries_form.aspx

Be succcinct and simply indicate your desire for a copy of your
mortgage agreement because it has been lost and that your lender has
not been cooperative in providing you a copy of your full mortgage
agreement. Leave all the drama out of it.

Good luck!

--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



One more suggestion, but this might be most important of all. Get a
new lawyer. The lawyer is likely correct on the law. Barring some
special banking consumer rights law or similar, I wouldn't think the
bank would have to give you a copy. However, virtually all would
just as a matter of reasonable fairness. But, are you paying this
lawyer to give you rulings on law favorable to the other party, or are
you paying him to solve YOUR problem? If the guy was any decent
lawyer, he would have written a short 2 minute letter to the bank
telling them he is representing you on a legal matter and he needs a
copy of the document.

And I agree, you should get the mortgage to be absolutely sure of what
it says. But, in my experience, it would be very unusual for a
mortgage with both parties signatures to treat one differently than
the other. The bank wants to be able to go after either one of you
equally to recover the loan. Doing anything other than that would
change the std documents, make in non-conforming and create quite a
headache for the lender, so they wouldn't do it on a simple home
mortgage.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:32:14 -0700, someone wrote:


.....But with this
individual, she just will not cooperate unless and until it is somehow made
overwhelmingly and painfully self-evident to her to be in her self interest
to do so....

You sound like a pathetic ****ing whiner to me. And you "top post"
too, so there. What kind of mysterious clauses do you think you are
gong to find? You acknowledge that you signed it (so are on the hook
for the debt) and you should easily be able to find out the balance.
So what's the mystery?


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

On 14 Apr 2007 07:27:30 -0700, someone wrote:


.....But, are you paying this
lawyer to give you rulings on law favorable to the other party, or are
you paying him to solve YOUR problem?

Or, is he paying the lawyer at all, or just some whiner calling up
trying to get free advice????



Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.