On 18 Feb 2007 19:23:35 -0800, "Harry K"
wrote:

Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb *&)s
did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and again they
are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close enough that you have
to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots were puzzled when people
didn't use the old dollar coins. They didn't listen apparently when
told that the major objection was the size, too close to a quarter.

Ah well, never underestimate the stupidity of beuracracy!

Harry K


Hey they are elected right?

Ok, just kidding, the ones in the treasury department are at best
appointed. Most are just public servents, some trying to make a name
for themselves. Just an observation.

You are correct, everytime a new coin comes out, the cost on venders
is hugh. Coin operated machines, cashiers, etc.

Always wondered why the fed didn't design a coin you couldn't confuse
for another coin. The NYC subways use to prevent their old tokens by
punching out the middle of the token in the shape of a letter. Like
the Y in NYC.

Just confusing at times, since I'm NO expert at what is happening. I'm
sure few are.

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:11:45 -0500, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
..

Wouldn't rounding up OR down to the nearest 5 cents be fairer? .03 and
.04 UP, .01 and .02 DOWN.

Just leave it up to the seller. Competition will take care of it.


I haven't heard a valid argument for the US keeping the penny coin for
quite a while. From what I have heard, the mint makes more penny coins
than the total of all the other denominations of coins because so many
pennies go out of circulation for a variety of reasons.

Legislation to eliminate the penny is proposed every few years and
doesn't pass. I'd bet it's because of strong lobbying by the mint
worker's union and the metal suppliers. And maybe by some charitable
organizations too,

I have heard that some charities have complained. It seems a little bit
of a stretch these days.

However I often hear people objecting because they think it will
increase prices. The think all those 1.97 items will become 2.00. I say
fat chance. The only reason they are now 1.97 is to make it seem cheaper.

I've heard they feel many folks will toss all the
pennies they have on them into a collection jar, and they feel they
will get less overall donations if pennies aren't around.

Jeff

Where else can you get game tokens, spacers, and
fairly uniform weights for only a penny each?

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:26:35 -0500, "John Gilmer"
wrote:



Why the hell don't they get rid of pennies and maybe nickles if they
want
to
save money?

Getting ride of the $.01 is a "no brainer."

But if you get ride of the $.05 but keep the $.10 and the $.25 you run
into
problems. Say, for example, something costs $.10 (a "legal" amount) and
you pay with a $.25.

Like it or not, the $.05 and the $.10 will have to go or stay together.
It
will take another round of inflation before the $.10 is considered to be
"junk."

Dimes are currently the densest coinage available, which makes them
a good choice for caches and emergency kits.
Chuckle- the last time I got robbed, a few years back, they carefully
decanted 2 5-gallon jugs of pennies, and a half-jug of nickels, stealing all
my soft luggage to drag it out in. (I had figured a 5-gallon jug was heavy
enough to be safe- never occurred to me anyone would stay inside long enough
to pour them out.) What makes it funny is that the idiots ignored the clear
plastic quart containers of dimes on the shelf not 3 feet away, that were
worth several times as much as what they stole.

Of course, did the local idiot cops bother to put out a notice on anyone
trying to cash in 12+ gallons of pennies and nickels? They did not, and in
the recap in the paper, it said '$50 in change', not the $500 or so it
really was.

I roll it whenever the coffee can gets full now, and tuck it away in nooks
and crannies. (No banks here offer use of their counting machine, and I
refuse on principle to pay the 7-9 per cent CoinStar machine at the grocery
wants.)

aem sends...

Per :
Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer,

I guess I'm out of touch bc this is the first time I've heard of that.

What issuer?
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :
Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer,

I guess I'm out of touch bc this is the first time I've heard of that.

What issuer?

I think Discover was the one that pioneered the concept but others have
picked it up. I saw an ad for Chase the other day which said you could
have airline miles, points, or cash back -- your choice.

On 19 Feb 2007 10:36:58 -0800, wrote:

On Feb 19, 1:18 pm, wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
On Feb 18, 10:23 pm, "Harry K" wrote:
Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb *&)s
did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and again they
are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close enough that you have
to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots were puzzled when people
didn't use the old dollar coins. They didn't listen apparently when
told that the major objection was the size, too close to a quarter.

Who cares? I can't remember the last time I used cash for anything.
I'm not even sure I have ANY cash in my wallet. Do people really still
use cash for anything anymore? I doubt I've handled cash in over a
year. Where are you going and what are you buying for which you need
cash? After all, credit cards are free, they give you cash back, and
you can pay your balance in full once a month right online. Why on
earth would anyone NOT use them for everything?

They don't take plastic at yard sales, or lotsa other places normal people
shop. And normal people get irritated as hell when somebody ahead of them in
line uses plastic for a 2 dollar purchase, at a retailer that doesn't have
one of those whiz-bang customer operated terminals. There will always be a
need for cash.

Hmm, I actually DO take plastic at my yard sales, since I am a self-
employed merchant, but I guess most people don't. However, since I
rarely shop for anything at all, either new or used, I can't say I
visit garage sales all that much. I guess since I'm not much of a
"consumer" I must not be normal. And, as far as "normal" goes, I can't
say that there are any places I shop without the "whiz-bang"
terminals. I rarely make offline purchases anywhere except the grocery
store, WalMart, restaurants, the post office, and gas stations, and
they all have the "whiz-bang" stuff, and it's MUCH faster to swipe a
$2 purchase than to deal with bills and coins. That way, I don't
irritate you "normal" people. I live in the boonies, not a big city,
and I rarely see anyone else use money either. II don't know what
you're talking about when you say there's a need for cash. Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer, I can't afford NOT to use cards for everything. As always,
however, YMMV.

I guess you don't buy candy bars from kids who go door to door.

wrote:

Hmm, I actually DO take plastic at my yard sales, since I am a self-
employed merchant, but I guess most people don't. However, since I
rarely shop for anything at all, either new or used, I can't say I
visit garage sales all that much. I guess since I'm not much of a
"consumer" I must not be normal. And, as far as "normal" goes, I can't
say that there are any places I shop without the "whiz-bang"
terminals. I rarely make offline purchases anywhere except the grocery
store, WalMart, restaurants, the post office, and gas stations, and
they all have the "whiz-bang" stuff, and it's MUCH faster to swipe a
$2 purchase than to deal with bills and coins. That way, I don't
irritate you "normal" people. I live in the boonies, not a big city,
and I rarely see anyone else use money either. II don't know what
you're talking about when you say there's a need for cash. Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer, I can't afford NOT to use cards for everything. As always,
however, YMMV.

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

You know, for someone that claims to rarely shop for anything at all,
new or used. And, not much of a consumer. You sure do get a lot "cash
back". You have to spend close to $70K a year in order to get $700 back.

I smell a BSer, big time. LOL, thanks for catching yourself up in lies.

In article ,
says...
wrote:

Hmm, I actually DO take plastic at my yard sales, since I am a self-
employed merchant, but I guess most people don't. However, since I
rarely shop for anything at all, either new or used, I can't say I
visit garage sales all that much. I guess since I'm not much of a
"consumer" I must not be normal. And, as far as "normal" goes, I can't
say that there are any places I shop without the "whiz-bang"
terminals. I rarely make offline purchases anywhere except the grocery
store, WalMart, restaurants, the post office, and gas stations, and
they all have the "whiz-bang" stuff, and it's MUCH faster to swipe a
$2 purchase than to deal with bills and coins. That way, I don't
irritate you "normal" people. I live in the boonies, not a big city,
and I rarely see anyone else use money either. II don't know what
you're talking about when you say there's a need for cash. Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer, I can't afford NOT to use cards for everything. As always,
however, YMMV.

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

Actually, he's wise to accept plastic (evidently, he already knows
that). As a merchant, you wind up selling a lot more stuff if you
accept plastic - certainly more than enough to make up the fee. Do
you really think that retailers would almost universally accept
plastic if there wasn't an economic benefit to it?

You know, for someone that claims to rarely shop for anything at all,
new or used. And, not much of a consumer. You sure do get a lot "cash
back". You have to spend close to $70K a year in order to get $700 back.

That would be true if the cash back was only 1%. Most issuers are
now paying at least 2% and many go as high as 5% *after* the
promotional period ends, and even higher for certain
purchases/merchants. For example, I got 20% on my Citgo gasoline
purchases for the first 90 days after I got their card last year.
That was $150 just on gas (the fact that they were the cheapest gas
in town was icing on the cake). Add another $10,000 worth of
purchases at 5% on another card and that adds up to $650 for $10,000
in purchases. As it was, I bought a couple of major appliances last
year, so I don't anticipate quite as much this year. Nevertheless,
$700 is not hard to do.

I smell a BSer, big time. LOL, thanks for catching yourself up in lies.

I smell someone who is maybe p*ssed because he didn't get the same
deal.

wrote:

snipped

Doesn't matter by the time you get done with sales tax added on. Anyone
still have 3%?

Well, here in Massachusetts, there's NO sales tax on groceries or on
clothing costing below (I think it's) $150 per garment. Most of the rest
of the stuff we buy including foods considered a "meal" gets taxed at 5%.

But, there are some other exceptions like periodicals (but not "books")
and the one which seems wackiest to me is the sales tax on "bakery
items" purchased in quantities greater than a dozen at a time. IOW if
you buy from one to eleven Dunkin Donuts you pay 5% tax, but when buying
12 or more they are not taxed.

Course, one state north of here, New Hampshire, less than an hour's
drive from metropolitan Boston, there's zero sales tax, and we're
constantly peppered with radio, TV and print ads from stores up north
which append "In tax free New Hampshire" to their names.

It's illegal to buy stuff in New Hampshire and cart it back to
Masachusetts and then not declare the purchase on your next state income
tax return and pony up 5% to good old Taxachusetts, but I suspect that's
honored more in the breach than the observance. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

wrote:

"Elmo" wrote in message
...

HeyBub wrote:

(snip)
. In a few cases it

actually costs more than the defined value to produce the coin (1 cent
being
a case in point).

I thought they fixed that when they went to the flash-plated zinc
pseudo-pennies a few years back? Or has the dollar sagged so far, and/or
zinc gone up so much, that the metal value is over a cent again?

aem sends....


Yup, and the mint labor and shipping aren't inconsequential either. I
think the current "cost" to get a penny into circulation is about 1.4 cents.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

In article ,
(John Gilmer) says...

Unfortunately with our currency not being backed by gold or silver future
inflation is all but certain.

The value of currency varied wildly when it was made out of gold and
silver. Gold and silver are commodities, just like wheat and barley.
The price goes up, the price goes down.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

For reasons of fairness, that should be "rounded" rather than "rounded
up".

Nope!

The consistent (and in the long run most "fair") is to remember that when
you now buy ONE of something that's "Three for a $dollar" the first item is
$.34. The next two are only $.33.

So long as everyone plays by the same rules and everyone understands the
rules "fairness" isn't an issue.

Harry K wrote:
On Feb 18, 7:39 pm, "Rick Brandt" wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb
*&)s did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and
again they are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close
enough that you have to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots
were puzzled when people didn't use the old dollar coins. They
didn't listen apparently when told that the major objection was
the size, too close to a quarter.

Ah well, never underestimate the stupidity of beuracracy!

Harry K

Is it a problem for you that a one dollar bill is the same size as
a fifty?

The same problem as coins you can't tell by size. You have to look at
them each and every time. Now you can't do much about paper bills as
they will all feel the same no matter the denomination but there is no
reason the dollar coin couldn't be made enough bigger than the quarter
to be told by size. Say about 1/2 way between the quarter and 50cent
coin. You could sort coins by denomination in your pocket by feel up
until the dollar coin.

Harry K

C'mon, it IS bigger AND a different color AND with a different edge.

The reason dollar coins are not popular is because COINS are not popular. We
put up with the others because we have to and the majority of us carry them
precisely as long as it takes to dump them in a big container at the house.

Dollar coins (of any shape and size) will catch on 100% the moment they stop
printing paper dollars.

In article .com,
wrote:
Who cares? I can't remember the last time I used cash for anything.
I'm not even sure I have ANY cash in my wallet. Do people really still
use cash for anything anymore? I doubt I've handled cash in over a
year. Where are you going and what are you buying for which you need
cash? After all, credit cards are free, they give you cash back, and

The least expensive gas station around here (ARCO) doesn't take credit
cards. They do take ATM cards, but it costs $0.45. The gas stations
that do take credit cards are usually sufficiently more expensive than
ARCO that even with cash back or other rewards, gas costs more there.

--
--Tim Smith

"Rick Brandt" wrote in message et...
The reason dollar coins are not popular is because COINS are not popular. We
put up with the others because we have to and the majority of us carry them
precisely as long as it takes to dump them in a big container at the house.

Dollar coins (of any shape and size) will catch on 100% the moment they stop
printing paper dollars.

Rick, that is not entirely true. Dollar coins would be popular if vending machines took them. They don't. Vending machines have been modified to take dollar bills, not dollar coins. If the machines would have been modified to take the coins, the dollar coins would likely have become more popular. Maybe not mainstream, but more popular. At least useful enough for people to carry around to use in vending machines at work or in public places like malls, airports, or whatever.

Coins are popular for saving because it's easy to do. We dump them in jars at home and then roll them up because it's an easy way to save. We then take the rolls to the bank and deposit them into our savings accounts. The dumb ones that are too laze to count them and roll them up themselves take them to those machines that count them up for them and give them a receipt. They "pay" for that service by not getting full value for their coins.

I think that eventually, pennies will likely be taken out of circulation altogether. It almost costs more than a penny to make a penny (if it doesn't already). Might as well just round things to the nearest nickel and forget about pennies.

Everett M. Greene wrote:
"HeyBub" writes:
The "Mint" doesn't make paper money, the Federal Reserve does. None
of the paper currency produced by the Fed affects the federal budget
in any way whatsoever. The Fed is a separate organization from the
government. It is a government corporation, similar in structure to
the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross.

Look for information about the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing, a division of the Department of the Treasury.

The Bureau of Printing & Engraving prints Federal Reserve Notes - and
charges the Fed for the product (some $500 million in 2006). The Bureau of
Printing & Engraving also prints passports, military identification cards,
revenue stamps, and other stuff. The BPE began printing postage stamps in
July 1894 but on June 13, 2006, the BPE printed its last postage stamp.

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
John Gilmer wrote:
Better yet, let's dump pennies and the dollar bill.


Not so fast there!

The "Penny Dump" is LONG overdue. Because of the extra effort when making
change it $.01 piece is a drag on the economy.

The law should require that transactions be "rounded up" to the nearest $.05
unless the seller decides on a different policy. That way, when you get
change you don't get your cents.

Wouldn't rounding up OR down to the nearest 5 cents be fairer? .03 and
.04 UP, .01 and .02 DOWN.

Any rounding should be in the favor of the buyer.
Sellers control pricing. They are in a position to set prices so a
"fair" rounding scheme always produces rounding in their favor.
This adds up, and is essentially free money. I don't see how a business
could pass it up.

I haven't heard a valid argument for the US keeping the penny coin for
quite a while. From what I have heard, the mint makes more penny coins
than the total of all the other denominations of coins because so many
pennies go out of circulation for a variety of reasons.

I suggest dropping the penny and $1 bill and using $1 coin and $2 bill.
This keeps the number of bins in a cash register the same (one of the
anti-change lobbies).

The $1 coin media blitz had me comparing Half, 1, and Quarter coins.
To me, the 50 cent coin is about the right size for a $1 coin. It's
visibly larger than a quarter, but not absurdly large like previous $1
coins. What the hell were the SBA dollar designers thinking?


m

In article , no-
says...

[...] Sellers control pricing.

In a free market economy, *Buyers* control pricing.

They are in a position to set prices so a
"fair" rounding scheme always produces rounding in their favor.
This adds up, and is essentially free money. I don't see how a business
could pass it up.

They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

[...]

On Feb 19, 4:03 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per :

Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer,

I guess I'm out of touch bc this is the first time I've heard of that.

What issuer?
--
PeteCresswell

I have a Chase, Discover, and Bank of America, and they all do that. I
only use the BoA, however, because it has the highest percentage with
extra "points" on what I buy most. I thought everyone's cards did this.

On Feb 19, 5:06 pm, KLS wrote:
On 19 Feb 2007 10:36:58 -0800, wrote:





On Feb 19, 1:18 pm, wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...
On Feb 18, 10:23 pm, "Harry K" wrote:
Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb *&)s
did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and again they
are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close enough that you have
to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots were puzzled when people
didn't use the old dollar coins. They didn't listen apparently when
told that the major objection was the size, too close to a quarter.

Who cares? I can't remember the last time I used cash for anything.
I'm not even sure I have ANY cash in my wallet. Do people really still
use cash for anything anymore? I doubt I've handled cash in over a
year. Where are you going and what are you buying for which you need
cash? After all, credit cards are free, they give you cash back, and
you can pay your balance in full once a month right online. Why on
earth would anyone NOT use them for everything?

They don't take plastic at yard sales, or lotsa other places normal people
shop. And normal people get irritated as hell when somebody ahead of them in
line uses plastic for a 2 dollar purchase, at a retailer that doesn't have
one of those whiz-bang customer operated terminals. There will always be a
need for cash.

Hmm, I actually DO take plastic at my yard sales, since I am a self-
employed merchant, but I guess most people don't. However, since I
rarely shop for anything at all, either new or used, I can't say I
visit garage sales all that much. I guess since I'm not much of a
"consumer" I must not be normal. And, as far as "normal" goes, I can't
say that there are any places I shop without the "whiz-bang"
terminals. I rarely make offline purchases anywhere except the grocery
store, WalMart, restaurants, the post office, and gas stations, and
they all have the "whiz-bang" stuff, and it's MUCH faster to swipe a
$2 purchase than to deal with bills and coins. That way, I don't
irritate you "normal" people. I live in the boonies, not a big city,
and I rarely see anyone else use money either. II don't know what
you're talking about when you say there's a need for cash. Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer, I can't afford NOT to use cards for everything. As always,
however, YMMV.

I guess you don't buy candy bars from kids who go door to door. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm so rural I can't see my neighbors, so we've never had ANYONE
selling anything door to door. We've never had a trick or treater in
25 years. Again, maybe some people have a need for cash, but not where
I live.

On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, Hayes wrote:
wrote:
Hmm, I actually DO take plastic at my yard sales, since I am a self-
employed merchant, but I guess most people don't. However, since I
rarely shop for anything at all, either new or used, I can't say I
visit garage sales all that much. I guess since I'm not much of a
"consumer" I must not be normal. And, as far as "normal" goes, I can't
say that there are any places I shop without the "whiz-bang"
terminals. I rarely make offline purchases anywhere except the grocery
store, WalMart, restaurants, the post office, and gas stations, and
they all have the "whiz-bang" stuff, and it's MUCH faster to swipe a
$2 purchase than to deal with bills and coins. That way, I don't
irritate you "normal" people. I live in the boonies, not a big city,
and I rarely see anyone else use money either. II don't know what
you're talking about when you say there's a need for cash. Frankly,
since I get at least $700/year in cash back from my credit card
issuer, I can't afford NOT to use cards for everything. As always,
however, YMMV.

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

Well, when you're selling antiques furniture at more than $100 a
piece, you have much better sales if you take plastic.

You know, for someone that claims to rarely shop for anything at all,
new or used. And, not much of a consumer. You sure do get a lot "cash
back". You have to spend close to $70K a year in order to get $700 back.

I smell a BSer, big time. LOL, thanks for catching yourself up in lies.-

??? If you only get 1% back, yes, but not if you're getting a sliding
percentage based on buying habits. Also, if you buy EVERYTHING on
plastic, then the points add up quickly. I only spend about 30k on
plastic a year, and a huge amount of that is the "extra points"
purchases I use for my business, which get about 5%. It's not a
"business" card, it's just my consumer card. Everyone can do this.
What's the big deal?

Hayes wrote:

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

Browsing one night I found a used truck I liked.

Told the salesman I'd have to go home for a check.

Instead, he accepted my American Express card for $11,400.

Evidently he computed that the certain discounted Amex price was worth more
than the possibility of me returning with a check.

Harry K wrote:
Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb *&)s
did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and again they
are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close enough that you have
to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots were puzzled when people
didn't use the old dollar coins. They didn't listen apparently when
told that the major objection was the size, too close to a quarter.

Ah well, never underestimate the stupidity of beuracracy!

This is *SUCH* a typical topic for misc.rural! This
group has a hugely disproportionately high percentage
of people in it who believe in the sinister "they",
i.e. "they did it again", "they say...", etc.

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article , no-
says...

[...] Sellers control pricing.

In a free market economy, *Buyers* control pricing.

They are in a position to set prices so a
"fair" rounding scheme always produces rounding in their favor.
This adds up, and is essentially free money. I don't see how a business
could pass it up.

They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

[...]

I would expect that, like most other things, competition on price
alone would be ineffective.
If they are in the same consignment shop, B might have the edge.
If A is next door and B is across town, B's price is never seen.

On Feb 20, 10:18 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Hayes wrote:

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

Browsing one night I found a used truck I liked.

Told the salesman I'd have to go home for a check.

Instead, he accepted my American Express card for $11,400.

Evidently he computed that the certain discounted Amex price was worth more
than the possibility of me returning with a check.

Word! When I signed up years ago as an AMEX merchant I opted for a
flat rate of $5/month instead of a percentage plus fees. There are
some months when I get no AMEX sales at all, but overall I pay less
than 1 percent on AMEX sales. If your car salesmen opted for the flat
rate it cost him $5 to make an instant $11,400, and that's assuming no
other AMEX sales all month! That's why merchants accept cards - they
increase sales. Also, they don't bounce!

"AL" wrote in message
news
Rick Brandt wrote:
Harry K wrote:

Remember the Susan B Anthony and Sacajawea coins? Well the dumb *&)s
did it again. I just got some of the new dollar coins and again they
are almost identical in size to a quarter. Close enough that you have
to look to be sure. Seems to me the idiots were puzzled when people
didn't use the old dollar coins. They didn't listen apparently when
told that the major objection was the size, too close to a quarter.

Ah well, never underestimate the stupidity of beuracracy!

Harry K


Is it a problem for you that a one dollar bill is the same size as a
fifty?


The problem is there is no need for a dollar coin since we already have a
dollar bill.

They ought to do away with all coins and make all money as bills.
Even pennies. :-)

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...

"AL" wrote in message

The problem is there is no need for a dollar coin since we already have a
dollar bill. The idea was obviously conceived by the US Department of
Redundancy Department...

But the dollar coin will greatly outlast the paper bill saving money.

Saving *who* money?
No matter how much money the gov't supposedly *saves* it never give the
*savings* back to whom its been stolen.

Don wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...
"AL" wrote in message
The problem is there is no need for a dollar coin since we already have a
dollar bill. The idea was obviously conceived by the US Department of
Redundancy Department...
But the dollar coin will greatly outlast the paper bill saving money.

Saving *who* money?
No matter how much money the gov't supposedly *saves* it never give the
*savings* back to whom its been stolen.

Think of it as preventing an expenditure that need not
be incurred.

In article ,
says...
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:18:44 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Hayes wrote:

Taking plastic as a merchant, will cost you an additional 2%, minimum.
It's utterly foolish to take plastic, at a garage sale no less.

Browsing one night I found a used truck I liked.

Told the salesman I'd have to go home for a check.

Instead, he accepted my American Express card for $11,400.

Evidently he computed that the certain discounted Amex price was worth more
than the possibility of me returning with a check.

You must have been paying way too much for that truck. Every time I
have tried to use one of my rebate cards at a car dealer after I
negotiated a price they wanted to renegotiate the deal.

It's not uncommon for a dealer to want to renegotiate even if you
offer to pay cash. There's profit in financing.

But I think HeyBub's point was that a dealer knows that the odds of
someone returning with a check in that kind of scenario are not high.
Better to sell the car for $11,400 on the spot rather than risk not
selling it at all.

In article ,
says...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article , no-
says...

[...] Sellers control pricing.

In a free market economy, *Buyers* control pricing.

They are in a position to set prices so a
"fair" rounding scheme always produces rounding in their favor.
This adds up, and is essentially free money. I don't see how a business
could pass it up.

They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

[...]

I would expect that, like most other things, competition on price
alone would be ineffective.
If they are in the same consignment shop, B might have the edge.
If A is next door and B is across town, B's price is never seen.

All else being equal, the lower price gets the sale. Obviously, if
one store offers a better deal in terms of location, ambience, etc,
etc, etc, then the equation changes. The buying experience is part
of what you're buying. The consumer may feel that he's getting a
better 'product' at one store even though the widgets, themselves,
are identical. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

I would expect that, like most other things, competition on price
alone would be ineffective.
If they are in the same consignment shop, B might have the edge.
If A is next door and B is across town, B's price is never seen.

So?

Rounding UP makes the calculations easier for everyone. At worse, it will
cost comsumers $.04 per item.

Add it up if you will. The most lazy and stupid consumer might pay an
extra $50 the first year. After a year things will sort out.

On Feb 21, 3:20 am, "John Gilmer" wrote:

Rounding UP makes the calculations easier for everyone. At worse, it will
cost comsumers $.04 per item.

??? That's a new one on me. How is rounding UP any easier or less
difficult than rounding DOWN?

On Feb 19, 12:53 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:08:37 -0500, "John Gilmer"

wrote:

Better yet, let's dump pennies and the dollar bill.

Not so fast there!

The "Penny Dump" is LONG overdue. Because of the extra effort when making
change it $.01 piece is a drag on the economy.

The law should require that transactions be "rounded up" to the nearest $.05
unless the seller decides on a different policy. That way, when you get
change you don't get your cents.

For reasons of fairness, that should be "rounded" rather than "rounded
up".

For reasons of sanity, the law should not dictate *anything* with
regard to prices except that pennies will no longer be produced. The
retailers will then round up, down, or whatever other direction the
consumers decide to support. Many of us are old enough to remember
the disaster created by the government pricing laws of the 1970's.

John Gilmer wrote:

(not sure who wrote
I would expect that, like most other things, competition on price
alone would be ineffective.
If they are in the same consignment shop, B might have the edge.
If A is next door and B is across town, B's price is never seen.


So?
Rounding UP makes the calculations easier for everyone. At worse, it will
cost comsumers $.04 per item.

Recommendations that anything be "rounded" up OR down to the nearest
nickel tells me somebody skipped class the day rounding was taught.
Rounding is to the NEAREST DECIMAL POSITION, not to the nearest half
decimal position! If you eliminate the penny you must eliminate the
nickel - it resides in the same decimal position as the penny. Or are
you going to tell me all the accounting systems out there already know
how to "round" to the nearest nickel without having to be modified? I
think somebody needs to dust off their 5th grade arithmetic book - the
topic doesn't even rise to the level of math.



Add it up if you will. The most lazy and stupid consumer might pay an
extra $50 the first year. After a year things will sort out.


"things will sort out" - WHAT could that ever mean?



But if we DID eliminate the penny and nickel:

Having programmed accounting systems in a past life I can see a
wonderful world of opportunity opening up for crooks. The
rounding/truncating to the nearest decimal position of $.1 in a
multi-million transaction a day, or even hour, system could feed
enormous wealth to a hidden slush fund. You sometimes hear about
schemes where the fraction of pennies truncated are accumulated in a
hidden account? Well think 10 times that in terms of what would be
truncated in a $.10 system. Fortunately we can rest assured no one would
be that dishonest...


What we have works, sort of. If anything needs to be changed I would
think backing up the currency with something of real value rather than
promises would be a good start.

In article , AL wrote:

Recommendations that anything be "rounded" up OR down to the nearest
nickel tells me somebody skipped class the day rounding was taught.

Yep -- and methinks it was you.

Rounding is to the NEAREST DECIMAL POSITION, not to the nearest half
decimal position!

Not true. Rounding can be to any arbitrary regular interval: the nearest dime,
nearest nickel, nearest quarter, whatever.

If you eliminate the penny you must eliminate the
nickel - it resides in the same decimal position as the penny.

Absolute nonsense.

Or are
you going to tell me all the accounting systems out there already know
how to "round" to the nearest nickel without having to be modified?

And how many accounting systems do you suppose are capable of rounding to the
nearest *dime* without being modified?

I think somebody needs to dust off their 5th grade arithmetic book - the
topic doesn't even rise to the level of math.

I quite agree; you certainly do.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

The only real answer would be to revalue the dollar. Increase its
value by a factor of ten. Essentially, push the decimal point one
position to the left on all prices - overnight. A penny now buys what
a dime bought yesterday, a dime now buys what a dollar bought. A 50
cent candy bar is now a nickel. Gasoline is 23.9 cents per gallon, a
gallon of milk, a loaf of bread, and a lb of butter are 20 cents each,
a McDonald's burger is a dime, large fries about 15 cents, minimum
wage is 62 cents an hour, a newspaper is a nickel, a lb of ground beef
is about a quarter, a haircut is a buck and a half, a barrel of crude
is about $5, the median price of a single family home is about
$20,000, a new car about $2,000, cross country airfare about $50, a
movie ticket is 75 cents, etc, etc, etc.

Best of all - we keep the penny!

On Feb 21, 9:43 am, AL wrote:
John Gilmer wrote:

(not sure who wrote

I would expect that, like most other things, competition on price
alone would be ineffective.
If they are in the same consignment shop, B might have the edge.
If A is next door and B is across town, B's price is never seen.
So?
Rounding UP makes the calculations easier for everyone. At worse, it will
cost comsumers $.04 per item.

Recommendations that anything be "rounded" up OR down to the nearest
nickel tells me somebody skipped class the day rounding was taught.
Rounding is to the NEAREST DECIMAL POSITION, not to the nearest half
decimal position! If you eliminate the penny you must eliminate the
nickel - it resides in the same decimal position as the penny. Or are
you going to tell me all the accounting systems out there already know
how to "round" to the nearest nickel without having to be modified? I
think somebody needs to dust off their 5th grade arithmetic book - the
topic doesn't even rise to the level of math.

Add it up if you will. The most lazy and stupid consumer might pay an
extra $50 the first year. After a year things will sort out.

"things will sort out" - WHAT could that ever mean?

But if we DID eliminate the penny and nickel:

Having programmed accounting systems in a past life I can see a
wonderful world of opportunity opening up for crooks. The
rounding/truncating to the nearest decimal position of $.1 in a
multi-million transaction a day, or even hour, system could feed
enormous wealth to a hidden slush fund. You sometimes hear about
schemes where the fraction of pennies truncated are accumulated in a
hidden account? Well think 10 times that in terms of what would be
truncated in a $.10 system. Fortunately we can rest assured no one would
be that dishonest...

What we have works, sort of. If anything needs to be changed I would
think backing up the currency with something of real value rather than
promises would be a good start.

They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

Actually there is no reason whatsoever to change any of the marked
prices of individual items. Where the rounding will take place is at
the checkout, where the prices are added up, sales tax applied, and then
that total is rounded up or down IF you are paying cash. If you are
writing a check or using plastic, the total in odd cents goes in and
then shows up on your statement.

Just because there are no longer any pennies in circulation doesn't
restrict anyone from paying an amount not an even 5 cent multiple unless
you are paying cash. Then its rounded.

[Do your worst. Flame shield in place.] :-)

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

Actually there is no reason whatsoever to change any of the marked
prices of individual items. Where the rounding will take place is at
the checkout, where the prices are added up, sales tax applied, and then
that total is rounded up or down IF you are paying cash. If you are
writing a check or using plastic, the total in odd cents goes in and
then shows up on your statement.

Just because there are no longer any pennies in circulation doesn't
restrict anyone from paying an amount not an even 5 cent multiple unless
you are paying cash. Then its rounded.

[Do your worst. Flame shield in place.] :-)

Even if the feds and banks expend the labor to pull them from circulation,
there are probably 50 years worth of pennies sitting in sock drawers and
coffee cans all over the US.

Of course, people would probably avoid spending them unless they had to,
since they would now be 'collectible'.

Screw rounding- I'll leave the stuff on the counter and walk out if they try
that, unless it is in my favor.

aem sends...

aem sends...

wrote:
"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...

They can't ingore competition. Imagine that a particular style of
widget was previously priced at $1.97. If seller A rounds up to
$2.00 and Seller B rounds down to $1.95, who do you suppose makes the
sale?

Actually there is no reason whatsoever to change any of the marked
prices of individual items. Where the rounding will take place is at
the checkout, where the prices are added up, sales tax applied, and then
that total is rounded up or down IF you are paying cash. If you are
writing a check or using plastic, the total in odd cents goes in and
then shows up on your statement.

Just because there are no longer any pennies in circulation doesn't
restrict anyone from paying an amount not an even 5 cent multiple unless
you are paying cash. Then its rounded.

[Do your worst. Flame shield in place.] :-)


Even if the feds and banks expend the labor to pull them from circulation,
there are probably 50 years worth of pennies sitting in sock drawers and
coffee cans all over the US.

Of course, people would probably avoid spending them unless they had to,
since they would now be 'collectible'.

Screw rounding- I'll leave the stuff on the counter and walk out if they try
that, unless it is in my favor.

aem sends...

aem sends...



Get a grip... let's say hypothetically that you make $25 an hour. If it
takes you more than 1.44 seconds to pick up a penny, it's not worth your
time.

I'm obviously not allowing for taxes etc. but you get the idea. It's
not going to get any better in the future, either.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Mark Lloyd wrote:

For reasons of fairness, that should be "rounded" rather than "rounded
up".

Not that it really makes much difference, but, rounding by fives
seems more fair than decimal rounding. In decimal there is a middle
(number 5,) and there has to be a convention wether to round it up or
down. Between 5 and 10 cents there are an even number, so 6 and 7 are
rounded down to 5 and 8 an 9 are rounded up.

Dave