In article .com,
wrote:
"I think you are overestimating how many would-be buyers really care
about what color the
house 2 blocks over (or even next door) is. A nice, well-maintained
house
is a nice, well-maintained house whether it is green, blue, beige,
pink,
orange, or purple. "

And I think you are choosing to conveniently focus on house color and
refer to the houses as "well-maintained."



It helps to focus on the most eggregious examples of stupidity. There is
absolutely no reason to be concerned about the color of a house unless
perhaps it is an historic neighborhood. Yet, for some reason, HOAs
often want to regulate house colors.


Dimitri

(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
In article . com,
wrote:

Interesting position. So, a municipality can set limits on parking
RV's, trucks, lawn ornaments, house color, or whatever else they
choose, then it's OK? But if a HOA is set up for a neighborhood with
the same intention, then it's not?

HOAs charge you for the privilege.

Don't kid yourself -- so does your municipality. Unless you've found
a way around paying property tax.

HOA's (at least the one involved with the area I'm moving to) handle
snow removal and common area (akin to tiny parks) maintenance. It's
not appreciably different than a tax paid to a separate governing
body. Oversight and transparency is where things are markedly
different sometimes!


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

On 12/22/05 03:34 pm D. Gerasimatos wrote:

"I think you are overestimating how many would-be buyers really care
about what color the
house 2 blocks over (or even next door) is. A nice, well-maintained
house
is a nice, well-maintained house whether it is green, blue, beige,
pink,
orange, or purple. "

And I think you are choosing to conveniently focus on house color and
refer to the houses as "well-maintained."

It helps to focus on the most eggregious examples of stupidity. There is
absolutely no reason to be concerned about the color of a house unless
perhaps it is an historic neighborhood. Yet, for some reason, HOAs
often want to regulate house colors.

I read of a case where a bomeowner repainted the outside of his house
using the same color paint used by the original builder. But since the
other houses had faded paint, the newly painted one was the standout,
and the HOA got after the owner for this.

Perce

Todd H. wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
In article . com,
wrote:

Interesting position. So, a municipality can set limits on parking
RV's, trucks, lawn ornaments, house color, or whatever else they
choose, then it's OK? But if a HOA is set up for a neighborhood with
the same intention, then it's not?

HOAs charge you for the privilege.

Don't kid yourself -- so does your municipality. Unless you've found
a way around paying property tax.


With municipalities, you vote someone into office, and then the routine
decisions get made without taking it to another vote every single time.
If you don't like the decisions that were made, you can vote the person
out of office.

In a HOA, you can't vote them out of their home and out of the
neighborhood forever. You can, however, make their life so miserable
they decide to sell and move. Which means lots of petty battles,
feuding hostile neighbors, and energies that could be spent elsewhere.
While nothing ever gets decided, and the whole neighborhood goes to pot
anyway.

jen

In article , Todd H. wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
In article . com,
wrote:

Interesting position. So, a municipality can set limits on parking
RV's, trucks, lawn ornaments, house color, or whatever else they
choose, then it's OK? But if a HOA is set up for a neighborhood with
the same intention, then it's not?

HOAs charge you for the privilege.

Don't kid yourself -- so does your municipality. Unless you've found
a way around paying property tax.


In an area with HOAs you get to pay the HOA fees *plus* the property tax.


Dimitri

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:32:27 -0800, wrote:

On 22 Dec 2005 08:38:00 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
wrote:

Here where I live in NJ, fences are not permitted in
a front yard, which is simply an aesthetics issue, exactly as a HOA
might do.

That's pretty rotten if you have a toddler.

Ha. Funny you mention this because my sister lives in a high-end
residential development that prohibits fences of all kinds. Doesn't
matter, front, back, no fences are allowed. And these are
multi-million dollar homes. Hmmm, huh? No, this is not in
California, this is in Ohio.

There is no ****ing way in hell I would consent to such an arrangement
(besides the fact that I couldn't dream in a million lifetimes of
actually being able to afford to live in that development, but let's
ignore that small point) because my life right now is so greatly
enhanced by having a fully fenced-in backyard (front yard is
extraneous, in my view).

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:49:08 +0000 (UTC),
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

In article , Todd H. wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
In article . com,
wrote:

Interesting position. So, a municipality can set limits on parking
RV's, trucks, lawn ornaments, house color, or whatever else they
choose, then it's OK? But if a HOA is set up for a neighborhood with
the same intention, then it's not?

HOAs charge you for the privilege.

Don't kid yourself -- so does your municipality. Unless you've found
a way around paying property tax.


In an area with HOAs you get to pay the HOA fees *plus* the property tax.

Thank you for making this point, Dimitri. FYI, my parents are Cal
Bears and have those stupid alumni license plates on their cars (and
they're in their 70s! Give me a break!!!

(D. Gerasimatos) writes:

In article , Todd H. wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
In article . com,
wrote:

Interesting position. So, a municipality can set limits on parking
RV's, trucks, lawn ornaments, house color, or whatever else they
choose, then it's OK? But if a HOA is set up for a neighborhood with
the same intention, then it's not?

HOAs charge you for the privilege.

Don't kid yourself -- so does your municipality. Unless you've found
a way around paying property tax.

In an area with HOAs you get to pay the HOA fees *plus* the property
tax.

That's right.

But...consider the possibility that when the subdivision was built and
several "mini-parks" if you will ("common areas" in HOA parlance), and
the snow removal for the area is taken care of by the HOA. This is
the case in one subdivision around here (probably several actually).
Yearly fees are pretty modest, like $90.

That's money the municipality doesn't have to spend providing these
services. And hence, the less budgetary pressure on the municipality
in providing those services. Which means less pressure to increase
taxes and need to extract money from that subdivision to cover that.
And depending on how taxing is legislated and line items broken out in
your county... consider that the fees one pays in that taxing
district's HOA is offset by a tax savings vs. if the HOA weren't
providing those services.

Again, like every facet discussed within this thread, whether any of
these generalizations are actually true is strongly dependent on the
individual HOA and municipality's intersection of services, laws, and
circumstances. It's hard to know of course, cus taxing and
districting's granularity on this varies all over the place.

There is a place of HOA's. They're not all evil and completely useless.
There is a place for non-HOA neighborhoods too because HOA's do have
their drawbacks, and there are plenty of worthless ones out there.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"87. shinypenny
Dec 22, 5:06 pm show options

With municipalities, you vote someone into office, and then the routine

decisions get made without taking it to another vote every single time.

If you don't like the decisions that were made, you can vote the person

out of office.

In a HOA, you can't vote them out of their home and out of the
neighborhood forever. You can, however, make their life so miserable
they decide to sell and move. Which means lots of petty battles,
feuding hostile neighbors, and energies that could be spent elsewhere.
While nothing ever gets decided, and the whole neighborhood goes to pot

anyway. "

This is one mixed up and totally wrong analogy. In a HOA, you most
certainly can vote the board and/or officers out of office. Every HOA
I've seen, the members of the board are elected for a term, exactly
like a municipality. Plus, most have procedures for taking out
officers, board members, etc. In fact, the procedure for removal from
most HOA is a lot easier than trying to remove a municipal official.
These kinds of comments make me wonder how much real experience or
common sense some of you have.

"In an area with HOAs you get to pay the HOA fees *plus* the property
tax.

Dimitri "

Well, whoopee! And what does that have to do with anything? You
claimed previously that the fact that HOA make you pay somehow makes
them different. Someone pointed out to you that municipalities make
you pay too, and a whole lot more, through property tax. And everyone
knows they are for different things. A HOA fee may include a pool or
landscape maintenance. A municipality pays for roads, fire dept,
police, etc.

So, what exactly is your point?

In article .com,
wrote:

Well, whoopee! And what does that have to do with anything? You
claimed previously that the fact that HOA make you pay somehow makes
them different. Someone pointed out to you that municipalities make
you pay too, and a whole lot more, through property tax. And everyone
knows they are for different things. A HOA fee may include a pool or
landscape maintenance. A municipality pays for roads, fire dept,
police, etc.

So, what exactly is your point?


The point here is that an HOA charges fees to do many of the same things
that municipalities are already paid to worry about. There isn't much
value-added unless you think legislating house color is worthwhile. Yes,
sometimes there are common areas paid for by HOAs and that's often an
advantage to living in an HOA if you enjoy a particular amenity (pool,
horse trail, golf course). Of course, you pay for it even if you never use
it. My family lived in a few developments with an HOA and often when I went
to use the community pool I was the only person there - and these were in
the warm climes of Arizona and San Diego. A lot of people weren't getting
their money's worth, which was great for my family, but bad for a lot of
others.


Dimitri

HOAs - your opinions?

Good place for control freaks and busybodies with too much time on
their hands to work out their frustrations on the minority faction.
Generally run by old divorcee bitches who can't attract a man anymore
and short men who had their lunch money stolen when they were kids in
school. Great for people that like to mind other peoples' business.
Hell for people who like freedom and want to live a normal life.-Jitney

1. AS A PURCHASER OF PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED

TO BE A MEMBER OF A HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION.(snip)


13th Amendment, U.S. Constitution, Section 1:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Beware the black helicopters!


wrote in message
oups.com...
1. AS A PURCHASER OF PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED

TO BE A MEMBER OF A HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION.(snip)


13th Amendment, U.S. Constitution, Section 1:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

On 24 Dec 2005 21:31:01 -0800, wrote:

1. AS A PURCHASER OF PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED

TO BE A MEMBER OF A HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION.(snip)


13th Amendment, U.S. Constitution, Section 1:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

One small detail omitted: Nobody forces you to buy the property. If
you don't like the terms & conditions, don't sign the contract.

JM

One small detail omitted: Nobody forces you to buy the property. If
you don't like the terms & conditions, don't sign the contract.
JM

Good place for control freaks and busybodies with too much time on
their hands to work out their frustrations on the minority faction.
Generally run by old divorcee bitches who can't attract a man anymore
and short men who had their lunch money stolen when they were kids in
school. Great for people that like to mind other peoples' business.
Hell for people who like freedom and want to live a normal life.-Jitney

"JerryL" in
:

Did it ever occur to you that there is zero building in San Francisco
so the existing homes are priced so high?

zero building? not true. but i haven't noticed too many brightly colored houses either. i'd
like to see the silver one.

"Robert Hallsey" in
news.com:

Besides, prices are high because San Francisco is a desirable place to
live

hey keep that quiet..

"Travis Jordan" in
:

http://detroityes.com/art/12heidelberg.htm

more interesting than the average.

http://www.hohpe.com/Gregor/Travel/2002/Seattle/emp.jpg
http://www.louisville327.com/pics/st...GehryHome2.jpg
http://www.gaudiallgaudi.com/ASpecialCatOut.htm
http://home.pacific.net.au/~j.ellis/...pe%202001/r12-
gaudi%20house%20barcellona.htm
http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080/sto...RockRealm.html
http://images.google.com/images?q=Stainless+Steel+Roof
http://images.google.com/images?q=Barragan
http://www.ferrocement.com/Javier/Senosiain.01.it.html
http://www.ferrocement.com/Tech1.en.html
http://images.google.com/images?q=Casa+Furna

enjoy

"Percival P. Cassidy" in
:




We bought a house and deliberately avoided anything in a "planned
development" and/or with an HOA. Several of our neighbors have boats
or motorhomes parked in their driveways or alongside their houses.
Down the block somebody parks a "commercial vehicle" (namely, a van
proclaiming itself to belong to somebody or other's office-cleaning
service) in his driveway most of the day. The people across the street
have three vehicles parked in their driveway most of the time because
their triple garage is occupied by other vehicles and other items that
they are gradually trying to unload. On the corner lot during daylight
hours in fine weather are a bunch of reconditionaed lawn mowers for
sale. Many houses have roof- or chimney-mounted TV antennas. In each
direction there is a house with a tower supporting an amateur radio or
CB antenna. All of these would no doubt incur the wrath of the HOA
Gestapo if we had an HOA, but thankfully we don't: this is a nice
neighborhood that does not remind me of Pete Seeger's "little boxes
all made of ticky-tacky, and they all look just the same," and we all
get along.

Perce

hobby airplane in the garage. etc.


people who want to live on their property. those people have such nerve.

as long as it isn't more dangerous, biohazard, toxic , flammable (than "normal" homes!)

noise http://www.google.com/search?q=conce...eighbors+Scher

(D. Gerasimatos) in
:

I see a purple house and go "Wow, that person must really like purple."
I wouldn't paint my house purple, but there are some purple houses in
my neighborhood. What's the big deal about it? In fact, even though I
think it isn't attractive my girlfriend just loves one of them. Different
strokes for different folks. It's just paint. If the house I want to buy
is purple then I'll paint it. If the house next door is purple then what
do I care? It's not my house.

so if you want to attract girlfriends, move *near* a purple house?

(Charles H. Buchholtz) in
:

Prices went up, and the starving artists had to move out.

Venice Beach

(Todd H.) in :

I have friends trying
to sell their house that's aobut 100 yards from high voltage right of
way. Like you, they were quite accepting and "dosn't bother us" when
they bought their place brand new. Now it's 5 years later, they have
a growing family and want to move, but cannot... their house has been
on the market 9 months, they're learning that perhaps they should've
considered the whims of pickier buyers before pulling the trigger.

they should have bargained lower when they bought.
buy, sell. it's relative. (%)

"P. Thompson" in
ocaldomain:

Well, I have sold a house. With a rental on one side

scary :-)

and with a
model-T sized single car detached garage with a four foot driveway and
a busybody

that's a real problem, and no purple paint will give that away.

with wacked-out landscaping

wakked out? i'm curious.


on the other side and made a
fine profit.

(D. Gerasimatos) in
:

Way back when (in a neighborhood without an HOA) my father set out to
paint his house in two colors. The top half of the house was one color
and the bottom half was another color. When he was halfway through
(had painted the one color) half the neighborhood had come over to say
that he was ridiculous and how hideous the house looked. Well, when he
finally finished a lot of people came over to compliment him on it and
some people even painted their houses in the same manner. The idea
didn't fit in with their narrow view of what 'looked right' but the
final product looked fine. Colors, whether exterior or interior colors
like carpeting, are a fad. Lime green was cool 50 years ago, then
pink, brown, beige, white, whatever. Are you going to repaint your
house every time someone on the block thinks the color is dated or
'ugly'? Paint your house the color you want it to be and maybe you'll
set a trend. Even if not, at least you'll be happy. HOAs want everyone
to live in a navajo white world.

your dad didn't happen to be mr pine?
http://www.google.com/search?q=Kessl...ine%27s+Purple

(Todd H.) in :

Or if they have
high costs and don't provide any value for it.

that's one of the main fears about hoas, and why some people are wary of buying a condo.

"Percival P. Cassidy" in :

I read of a case where a bomeowner repainted the outside of his house
using the same color paint used by the original builder. But since the
other houses had faded paint, the newly painted one was the standout,
and the HOA got after the owner for this.

after a few paintjobs, all of the houses will be white. :-)

if you replace your driveway,it has to be pre-greyed?

Many houses have roof- or chimney-mounted TV antennas.


Federal law prohibits any restrictions on OTA TV antennas, microwave TV antennas
or satellite antennas less than 1 meter in diameter. The HOA cannot prohibit
these.

"Todd H." wrote in message ...
However, the market does need buyers like you. I have friends trying
to sell their house that's aobut 100 yards from high voltage right of
way. Like you, they were quite accepting and "dosn't bother us" when
they bought their place brand new. Now it's 5 years later, they have
a growing family and want to move, but cannot... their house has been
on the market 9 months, they're learning that perhaps they should've
considered the whims of pickier buyers before pulling the trigger.

That was one of my top criteria when looking for the houses I have bought.
I would never buy a house where I can see power lines like that, much less
within 100 yards and possibly be affected by electromagnetic fields. Makes
me cringe to just think about it. I see many houses built right near these
and am constantly amazed that they sell these to anyone.
Tomes

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:44:43 +0000 (UTC), "
wrote:

(D. Gerasimatos) in
:

I see a purple house and go "Wow, that person must really like purple."
I wouldn't paint my house purple, but there are some purple houses in
my neighborhood. What's the big deal about it? In fact, even though I
think it isn't attractive my girlfriend just loves one of them. Different
strokes for different folks. It's just paint. If the house I want to buy
is purple then I'll paint it. If the house next door is purple then what
do I care? It's not my house.

so if you want to attract girlfriends, move *near* a purple house?

He doesn't need to, he's already got a girlfriend.