Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

Hi Jim,

I am a technical writer, and publish a daily free newsletter on the
telecom industry.

I fully support your claims that the average life of consumer
electronics is declining. I am an electronics gizmo freak and have
repaired quite a few things on my own.

Remember a TV/Audio/Radio/Fridge bought 10 or 20 years ago may still be
running allright with minor glitches. However, the average life of a TV
has been reduced to not more than 7-8 years today. Same is the case
with other equipment. I think the worst decline in quality has come in
case of AUDIO players with CD/DVDs. They normally develop a defect or
problem within a year itself.

Another problem with these sophisticated devices is that they are very
costly to repair. So, the companies earn profits on two counts. 1)
Initial Sale and 2) Spare parts.

The following factors can be attributed to falling quality levels:

1) Global competition
2) Sustaining profit margins
3) Curbing a fall in sales ( A TV built for 20 yrs life will ultimately
affect the future sales/profits of a company)
4) Procuring supllies/spare parts from low cost countries, which do not
adhere to strict quality standards or are not technologically well
equipped
5) Meeting huge demand in less time
6) Launching new models without much prior testing

Just to give you an example. My TV set has got a damaged IF block,
according to a company authorised service center. Also, the switch set
is not working. If I total up their estimate, it comes to $170, at
which I can buy a brand new TV set. This clearly shows that these
companies work on a strategy where the customer would either get a
product repaired at huge cost, or buy a brand new TV, boosting their
sales.

Thanks

getfunky wrote:
Hi Jim,

I am a technical writer, and publish a daily free newsletter on the
telecom industry.

I fully support your claims that the average life of consumer
electronics is declining. I am an electronics gizmo freak and have
repaired quite a few things on my own.

Remember a TV/Audio/Radio/Fridge bought 10 or 20 years ago may still be
running allright with minor glitches. However, the average life of a TV
has been reduced to not more than 7-8 years today. Same is the case
with other equipment. I think the worst decline in quality has come in
case of AUDIO players with CD/DVDs. They normally develop a defect or
problem within a year itself.

Another problem with these sophisticated devices is that they are very
costly to repair. So, the companies earn profits on two counts. 1)
Initial Sale and 2) Spare parts.

The following factors can be attributed to falling quality levels:

1) Global competition
2) Sustaining profit margins
3) Curbing a fall in sales ( A TV built for 20 yrs life will ultimately
affect the future sales/profits of a company)
4) Procuring supllies/spare parts from low cost countries, which do not
adhere to strict quality standards or are not technologically well
equipped
5) Meeting huge demand in less time
6) Launching new models without much prior testing

Just to give you an example. My TV set has got a damaged IF block,
according to a company authorised service center. Also, the switch set
is not working. If I total up their estimate, it comes to $170, at
which I can buy a brand new TV set. This clearly shows that these
companies work on a strategy where the customer would either get a
product repaired at huge cost, or buy a brand new TV, boosting their
sales.

Thanks


Hi...

Please excuse me butting in; you're discussing something
that concerns me greatly (I'm old and long retired, but
very much worried about the young people's future)

If I recall correctly - not too long ago virtually anything
coming out of Japan had a three year warranty. When Korea
began to compete almost all that they produced had a five
year warranty. I mean real warranty, no spin-doctoring.
No pro-rated, or it's your fault, or any of that stuff,
just repair it at no cost.

Makes me wonder. Is there *no* way that we could all, each
and every one of us, for the common good get together and
boycott anything with less than 5 years of assured life?

If so:

We'd stop exporting our money, or as the Americans say,
exporting jobs. This would almost certainly re-create
the local service shop, who would do factory authorized and
paid for warranty work. Jobs for our young folks!

We'd stop wasting the earth's resources. We worry now about
oil, about water, etc., but *none* of earth's bounty is
infinite. Why waste it? The energy consumed to mine, ship,
and melt metal for new products can't possibly compare with
heating my soldering iron, eh? And I didn't even yet mention
the enormous waste in shipping - by sea, by train, by truck -
all be saved.

A side effect is that the USA - being under attack; or
thinking they are (a whole different subject) would have a
much much simpler job of inspecting imports.

We'd stop filling and over-filling our waste dump space.

I suspect that if all of us - ALL of us - went to the retailer
and said I want a 5 year warranty or nothing at all it wouldn't
be too long before many of our youngsters would be working
again.

Sorry for the rant. Pet peeve. Putting on my asbestos
suit now

Take care.

Ken

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd
be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer
products
over the last fifteen years?

In some cases, though in many others it's more a matter of the units being
more difficult to repair as well as cheaper to purchase so not worth having
repaired.

What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?

VCR's, DVD players, and anything else with mechanical parts. Average life is
1-3 years on most of that stuff.

Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled
to
reduce shelf-life?

Not that I'm aware of, generally it's a case of cutting too many corners in
attempt to reduce cost of manufacturing that they go too far and the item
falls apart.

Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

Most stuff isn't worth shipping back to the manufacture for service, it's
easier to just buy a new one.

Hi...

Please excuse me butting in; you're discussing something
that concerns me greatly (I'm old and long retired, but
very much worried about the young people's future)

If I recall correctly - not too long ago virtually anything
coming out of Japan had a three year warranty. When Korea
began to compete almost all that they produced had a five
year warranty. I mean real warranty, no spin-doctoring.
No pro-rated, or it's your fault, or any of that stuff,
just repair it at no cost.

Makes me wonder. Is there *no* way that we could all, each
and every one of us, for the common good get together and
boycott anything with less than 5 years of assured life?

If so:

We'd stop exporting our money, or as the Americans say,
exporting jobs. This would almost certainly re-create
the local service shop, who would do factory authorized and
paid for warranty work. Jobs for our young folks!

We'd stop wasting the earth's resources. We worry now about
oil, about water, etc., but *none* of earth's bounty is
infinite. Why waste it? The energy consumed to mine, ship,
and melt metal for new products can't possibly compare with
heating my soldering iron, eh? And I didn't even yet mention
the enormous waste in shipping - by sea, by train, by truck -
all be saved.

A side effect is that the USA - being under attack; or
thinking they are (a whole different subject) would have a
much much simpler job of inspecting imports.

We'd stop filling and over-filling our waste dump space.

I suspect that if all of us - ALL of us - went to the retailer
and said I want a 5 year warranty or nothing at all it wouldn't
be too long before many of our youngsters would be working
again.

Sorry for the rant. Pet peeve. Putting on my asbestos
suit now


It's a good idea, for an idealogical world. Unfortunatly I suspect a great
many consumers would tell you to **** off and go buy the cheaper product
regardless of the warranty. I'm not one of those but most consumers
obviously are.

"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:x3vQd.399406$8l.360834@pd7tw1no...
Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd
be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer
products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled
to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley



Someone else's post referred to TV life declining to 7/8 years etc. What
seems to have been missed out is that circuitry has become more complex
(albeit usually 'hidden' inside an IC). Extra complexity will bring down the
MTBF. Extra complexity has of course also brought us CDs, DVDs, teletext
systems, RDS, all the various flavours of surround sound etc. etc. So, if
you want reliability to increase, the asnwer is quite simple - get rid of
all the 'gadgetry' which is now used to boost the product sales. It isn't
going to happen.

When you do write your story, try not to be biased, and rather show a
balanced picture of things. Quality has not declined, it has probably
increased, but so has complexity. The nett result may be shorter MTBF - that
is for you to investigate.

Jim Conley wrote:
Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the
decline of
quality in consumer electronics. (snip)

Jim,

I think it is beyond doubt that the build qulity of most consumer
electronics has fallen into the abyss. The other posters on this thread
have put that very well.

And the reasons? simple: 'the bottom line' is all that matters to the
manufacturers, it's simple economics. They have absolutely no real gain
in producing higher priced products with a longer life. That costs too
much.It is easier to sell, sell, sell , and damn the consequences. Of
course, this approach is IMHO, ecologically unsustainable, wasteful and
damaging in many ways. It will come back to haunt us.

However in the Uk and Europe, it is not uncommon to see 2-3 year full
warranties on new goods, which is I suppose good from the consumer
point of view, but it means people are more tempted to buy the
cheapest, as they feel more secure about risking it, they can just
take it back anyway and get a new one no quibble. Repair doesnt enter
the picture, so what happens to all the returns? landfill material -
not economically viable to service.

The problem is, most of us are incapable of thinking in the long term,
so the above ecological qualms don't bother the vast majority of the
population, it just is not their way of thinking. As consumers, we have
been indoctrinated from birth to do just that -consume, and look at
price and features as the absolute overrriding criteria in decision
making. So the manufacturers sell us what we ask for or "want" - its a
vicious circle.

We are bombarded with advertising from cradle to grave and we are
judged on what we have, as much as who we are. Patterns of consumption
reflect that. Having something 'old' is not seen as 'acceptable'!

so is this spiral going to turn around? not without a genetic mutation
it's not!

just my tuppence worth!
off to vent my spleen elsewhere now! ;-)
-Ben

Another part of this equation is the fact that the consumers are demanding
ever increasing features in their products but at a lower price. Therefore
something has to give. Technically in the engineering side of the products
the ideal is more reliability due to inclusion of more mpu and
micro-nization of the circuitry. Allowing the product to operate under a
lower total power consumption. Purposively allowing for longer life span due
to lower ambient operational heat buildup, etc.

Also adding to the equation is the fact that many of the new techniques
involved are making the products much more ESD (static) sensitive, this has
been a problem in computers and micro circuits for many years and is now an
increasing problem in the normal consumer electronics products.

Again, a plethora of just cheap products being dumped on the market place,
from Cell Phones to Microwave Ovens, from recreational marine Radio and
Radar produced to portable DVD and CD players. Then of course the available
Television Sets from 3.5" LCD up to and including 40+" Plasma Sets. The
manufactures have allowed their "Bean Counters" to drive the bottom line.

No longer are the Manufacturer Based Training Materials and Training Courses
provided on a classroom based means. Yes, one can download the training
manuals and attend the on-line seminars provided by very few of these
manufacturers however the servicing division of the retailers ask the
technicians to actually do this on their own time.

The designs of the products are not service friendly, they are designed to
be mass produces on a computer controlled, robotic friendly assembly line to
again lessen the manual cost involved in the end product. This adds time and
effort to the technical end of attending to the needs of the consumer after
the sale, when service is demanded.

Sadly the end user, the guy who actually dumped their hard earned funds for
the products, are the ones who ultimately suffer. The manufacturers and
retailers have made their cut and the product fails, occasionally while
still covered by the manufacturer's moderately limited warranty period.
Normally after this period has expired, at least the labour warranty section
of if. Many consumers do not take advantage of the "Extended Warranty Plans"
offered by many retailers, suspecting theta these plans are just a poor
excuse for selling poor quality products in the first place.

It seems to become a round robin effect, consumers demand inexpensive, high
quality, feature laden products. The manufacturers respond with multiple
products, in many differing value lines, attempting to meet the consumer
demands at the lowest common denominator especially for their cost.

Thanks for at least taking in account what I have posted. IMHO, after
servicing these infernal products since the early 60's seem to be very
indicative that the value for the buck has diminished.
wrote in message
ups.com...

Jim Conley wrote:
Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the
decline of
quality in consumer electronics. (snip)

Jim,

I think it is beyond doubt that the build qulity of most consumer
electronics has fallen into the abyss. The other posters on this thread
have put that very well.

And the reasons? simple: 'the bottom line' is all that matters to the
manufacturers, it's simple economics. They have absolutely no real gain
in producing higher priced products with a longer life. That costs too
much.It is easier to sell, sell, sell , and damn the consequences. Of
course, this approach is IMHO, ecologically unsustainable, wasteful and
damaging in many ways. It will come back to haunt us.

However in the Uk and Europe, it is not uncommon to see 2-3 year full
warranties on new goods, which is I suppose good from the consumer
point of view, but it means people are more tempted to buy the
cheapest, as they feel more secure about risking it, they can just
take it back anyway and get a new one no quibble. Repair doesnt enter
the picture, so what happens to all the returns? landfill material -
not economically viable to service.

The problem is, most of us are incapable of thinking in the long term,
so the above ecological qualms don't bother the vast majority of the
population, it just is not their way of thinking. As consumers, we have
been indoctrinated from birth to do just that -consume, and look at
price and features as the absolute overrriding criteria in decision
making. So the manufacturers sell us what we ask for or "want" - its a
vicious circle.

We are bombarded with advertising from cradle to grave and we are
judged on what we have, as much as who we are. Patterns of consumption
reflect that. Having something 'old' is not seen as 'acceptable'!

so is this spiral going to turn around? not without a genetic mutation
it's not!

just my tuppence worth!
off to vent my spleen elsewhere now! ;-)
-Ben

"John Smith" writes:

Someone else's post referred to TV life declining to 7/8 years etc. What
seems to have been missed out is that circuitry has become more complex
(albeit usually 'hidden' inside an IC). Extra complexity will bring down the
MTBF. Extra complexity has of course also brought us CDs, DVDs, teletext

How so? If they are inside ICs, they are very reliable.

systems, RDS, all the various flavours of surround sound etc. etc. So, if
you want reliability to increase, the asnwer is quite simple - get rid of
all the 'gadgetry' which is now used to boost the product sales. It isn't
going to happen.

Let's see.... The average PC today has something like 200,000,000
million parts if you include everything inside the ICs. How is its
MTBF lower than a computer of 40 years ago with discrete transistors?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

I just wanted to send a hearty and collective thanks to the people who
posted on this subject, especially Sam Wasserman who pointed me here in the
first place. The sci.electronics.repair group is clearly filled with people
on the frontlines of keeping technology running. Several people took time
out of their busy day to give me a clearer perspective on quality decline
and I appreciate their response.

A few QC factoids that should interest this group:

1. Extended-warranties have a profit margin 18 times higher than the
devices themselves at most big-box electronics dealers.
2. The average cell phone is in use for less than 18 months.
3. An early manufacturer of floppy disks defined a 'lifetime warranty' as
being until the media failed.
4. Consumer electronics has the smallest warranty reserve as percentage
of gross sales of any major manufacturing industry.
5. The Chinese government executed 18 managers of a refrigerator plant in
1989 for poor quality control.

An interesting aside - I've had several sources comment on how the
complexity of consumer electronics is resulting in more and more 'false
failures' where the device actually works but, whether through interface
design failures or consumer confusion, appears not to. Two sources have said
this accounts for over 25% of all returned electronic goods.

I'll post the story once completed since I expect it would be of interest to
the readers and will provide full attribution for any quotes/materials used.

Thanks,

Jim Conley


"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:x3vQd.399406$8l.360834@pd7tw1no...
Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd
be interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about
whether the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so,
why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer
products over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled
to reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

hey Jim,

Thanks for sharing what you learned. I can relate to your comment on the
high percentage of consumer returns that showed no problems. My 18-year old
son bought an iPod prior to Christmas and had been using it without any
problems for several months. Just a couple weeks ago he told me he was
having trouble with it and thought it had "died". I told him to put it on
the AC charger overnight and check it out in the AM when it was fully
charged. He ignored my instruction and showed me how it would not even
power up on the AC adapter or the USB cable to the family computer. I once
again instructed him to put it on the AC charger since the batteries were so
low it was dragging down the power supply so could not function. He told me
he would do this...

The next evening when I came home he told me that it still did not work and
that he had contacted Apple and they would be sending a box to return it
post paid under warranty. I asked him to see the unit and plugged it in
myself overnight. The next morning the unit functioned perfectly and when
the4 box came from Apple, he decided he did not need it. It has been
working fine for a month or so now. This just shows how if you do not
understand the technology being used, it can lead to erroneous conclusions.

Bob

"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:dkLQd.408545$8l.35076@pd7tw1no...
An interesting aside - I've had several sources comment on how the
complexity of consumer electronics is resulting in more and more 'false
failures' where the device actually works but, whether through interface
design failures or consumer confusion, appears not to. Two sources have
said
this accounts for over 25% of all returned electronic goods.

Jim Conley

"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:dkLQd.408545$8l.35076@pd7tw1no...

.....
5. The Chinese government executed 18 managers of a refrigerator plant
in
1989 for poor quality control.
.....

Suddenly my respect for the Chinese government has gone up several notches.
If we did that for massive auto recalls those cars would be coming off the
lines A+++ - every day of the week!
--
N

Hi Jim:

Gladdens my heart to see a writer doing things the way they should be done.
Kudos to you and please keep up the good work!

I'll toss in three points: (1) The price point on some consumer items is
now so low that manufacturers are forced to cut quality in order to compete.
VCRs and DVD players fit into this category The realiability of electronic
products could keep increasing, as they did from the 1950s when TVs failed
about once per year ... this failure rate dropped to once per nine years a
while back. (2) The throw-away mentality is supported by high repair costs,
lack of easy access to qualified and quick-turnaround service, and ever
expanding features that make the old stuff less attractive. (3) The false
failure issue is getting worse. Have you noticed that starting a DVD movie
can take on several, and rather different, procedures and that some folks
are getting more confused? I sure have noticed this and think it would make
an excellent article ... perhaps something for you to think about. How
about cell phones with those darned buttons that get pressed in normal
handling and put the phone into an unrecognized mode?

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:53:17 GMT, "Jim Conley"
wrote:

Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

Jim,

Unlike the other Jeremiahs here I hardly ever expect anything I buy to
ever fail.

I'm surprised if anything does actually fail. Most of the stuff I buy
just works and works without any trouble.

I've had the odd VCR fail on some functions, but not after 1-3 years,
more like 7-8 years. Otoh others I own (and I own quite a few) are
still going fine in every respect. I use them regularly.

Presumably all the posters feel cars are way worse too? Not in my
universe. Car repairs used to feed lots of families, they sure don't
do that now. I have a cheap Hyundai car. It has done 130,000Km over 9
years with only normal services. Nothing on it has broken or burnt
out. Great car, in my book.

Of course, most of this stuff won't resist serious useage abuse. I
keep my electronic stuff clean or stored properly, and I don't load it
with dirty or dusty media. I also service the car regularly, which
services aren't needed very often these days, and I don't belt the
living crap out of it when driving it.

Ross



(To get email address ROT 13)

RMD ) writes:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:53:17 GMT, "Jim Conley"
wrote:

Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

Jim,

Unlike the other Jeremiahs here I hardly ever expect anything I buy to
ever fail.

I'm surprised if anything does actually fail. Most of the stuff I buy
just works and works without any trouble.

That's what I don't understand. Obviously, things do fail. Yet
the only time I had something break was a Radio Shack Color Computer,
and it was in warranty.

I can't think of electronics stuff that I've bought that failed. I've
bought plenty of it used, and if it works when I get it, it continues
to work. Of course, it doesn't always work when I buy it.

I've wondered if I am just lucky, or others are unlucky or careless.

Michael

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" writes:

Someone else's post referred to TV life declining to 7/8 years etc. What
seems to have been missed out is that circuitry has become more complex
(albeit usually 'hidden' inside an IC). Extra complexity will bring down
the
MTBF. Extra complexity has of course also brought us CDs, DVDs, teletext

How so? If they are inside ICs, they are very reliable.



In my repair experience, IC's in TV sets virtually never fail. The problem
is normally a power semiconductor in the PSU or scan circuits, either that
or failed capacitors.

John Smith wrote:
When you do write your story, try not to be biased, and rather show a
balanced picture of things. Quality has not declined, it has probably
increased, but so has complexity. The nett result may be shorter MTBF - that
is for you to investigate.

In my experience, it is mostly the mechanics and the basic large signal
circuits (power supplies, deflection stages, high voltage stages) that
fail. As these are mostly as simple as they used to be, or in the case
of VCR mechanics even more simple, the only reason they could fail more
often is that they are made more cheaply. Of course, a power supply
blowing in modern equipment could take out several complex circuits...
Unrepairable damage.

---
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:dkLQd.408545$8l.35076@pd7tw1no...
snip
An interesting aside - I've had several sources comment on how the
complexity of consumer electronics is resulting in more and more 'false
failures' where the device actually works but, whether through interface
design failures or consumer confusion, appears not to. Two sources have
said
this accounts for over 25% of all returned electronic goods.

I know for a fact that many goods get returned for other than being
defective. I buy them all the time on ebay. Another reason for returns is
that an accessory is bought which will not interface with a particular
customers device...cell phone accessories probably are most at risk in this
respect.

It would be very easy for the manufacturers to implement a standard
mic/headphone interface--in fact one exists: the 2.5mm TRS phone plug--but
many of us are stuck with 'branded' accessories until the aftermarket
decides that there's enough money in duplicating the interface for a
particular model. They then gear up with a plethora of accessories which
become surplus stock to be dumped for pennies on the dollar, once the OEM
decides to change the interface again.... PDA manufacturers (among others)
are also particularly guilty of this strategy of changing interface and form
factor in order to dent the accessory aftermarket's market share.

Apple got caught on the original Ipod, which had an internal battery which
could not be easily replaced--and they tried to say could not be replaced at
all--even by Apple. Consumer revolt changed that policy.

jak

I'll post the story once completed since I expect it would be of interest
to
the readers and will provide full attribution for any quotes/materials
used.

Thanks,

Jim Conley


"Jim Conley" wrote in message
news:x3vQd.399406$8l.360834@pd7tw1no...
Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline
of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail
regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd
be interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about
whether the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if
so,
why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer
products over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long
are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally
crippled
to reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or
has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

"Michael Black" wrote in message
...

RMD ) writes:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:53:17 GMT, "Jim Conley"
wrote:

Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline
of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail
regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd
be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about
whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer
products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long
are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally
crippled to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or
has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

Jim,

Unlike the other Jeremiahs here I hardly ever expect anything I buy to
ever fail.

I'm surprised if anything does actually fail. Most of the stuff I buy
just works and works without any trouble.

That's what I don't understand. Obviously, things do fail. Yet
the only time I had something break was a Radio Shack Color Computer,
and it was in warranty.

I can't think of electronics stuff that I've bought that failed. I've
bought plenty of it used, and if it works when I get it, it continues
to work. Of course, it doesn't always work when I buy it.

I've wondered if I am just lucky, or others are unlucky or careless.

You're lucky!

jak

Michael

Hi Jim,

My comments are based on my own observations and experiences in the
consumer electronic repair industry over the last 10 years or so. I am
a repair shop owner in Australia.

To answer your first question - YES. Fifteen - twenty years ago it was
not uncommon for the family CTV or VCR to live as long as other
appliances such as the fridge or washing machine - ie easily 10-15
years. Now, with all our advances in manufacturing technology we can
have our domestic electronic goods fail in as little as two years.

Rarely have i seen a DVD player live past it's third birthday without
major reworking, laser or motor replacement, mpeg board failures etc.
Entry level VCR's are in the same boat with only three or four (at
best) manufacturers in the world make a unit that is of any real
quality.

CTV sets are also failing earlier than I would like to expect with
most falling over between 5 and 7 years.

I am a warranty repair agent for a number of brands and have seen this
trend of change across all brands in competeting for market share.
Some brands in Aust now dont service VCR's or DVD's under warranty.
They have determined that it is cheaper in the long run to simply
replace any faulty units that are returned with new units thus saving
on repair costs, cranky customers, expense of carrying spare parts,
etc. It's an idea which appears to be working for them although it
doesn't do my future much good.

I wouldn't like to say that manufacturers are deliberately engineering
consumer electronic goods to fail prematurely but it is interesting to
note that most of the faults found in these goods stem from power
supply failures caused by underated components, poor quality
components or glue left on the PCB's during the manufacturing process.

With the exception of DVD, I would say that CTV sets have advanced the
most over the last fifteen years. They have gone from a wooden box
full of boards and wires down to a small siingle PCB with a hand full
of IC's and a power supply. This makes for easy servicing (If you have
the diagnositc gear) and all is well during the warranty period and
the manufacturer can supply replacement IC's. But sadly I'm starting
to notice a trend where after the warranty period has expired, the
supply of the essential IC's also stops or they are priced so high
that nobody will pay to have their sets repaired.

All this and I'm the one that gets abused and sworn at as they slam
the down out of my shop on the way down to the supermarket to get
another cheap CTV.

Go figure!!!

Sam T.
Australia.

PS: Just a personal note jim. My own home entertainment gear consists
of 1x cheap and nasty DVD player (AU$60 - 12mth warranty - has been
back three times for replacement.), 10yo 68cm CTV (A proven design
which I maintain myself), 15yo VCR (Bullet proof design - way better
than today's machines), 12yo Amp and CD player (proven design - very
reliable). It's not that I don't like the new gear - It's just that I
cant justify spending all that money knowing that in five or six years
I'm not going to be able to repair it if I wanted to because the
boards are unworkable or the parts No Longer Available.



On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 05:34:46 GMT, (RMD) wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:53:17 GMT, "Jim Conley"
wrote:

Hello,

I'm a journalist writing a story for Mobile PC Magazine on the decline of
quality in consumer electronics. I sent Sam Wasserman an e-mail regarding
this topic this morning and he recommended posting to the newsgroup. I'd be
interested in the thoughts of sci.electronic.repair readers about whether
the quality of electronics is genuinely on the decline and if so, why?

Here's some of the questions I hope to answer with this article.

Has there been a quantifiable decrease in the life span of consumer products
over the last fifteen years?
What segments of consumer electronics seem to be hardest hit?How long are
consumer electronics meant to last?
Are they any documented cases of electronics being intentionally crippled to
reduce shelf-life?
Does the concept of a manufacturer's warranty mean anything anymore or has
point-of-purchase warranty become expected of consumers?

I appreciate your input.

Jim Conley

Jim,

Unlike the other Jeremiahs here I hardly ever expect anything I buy to
ever fail.

I'm surprised if anything does actually fail. Most of the stuff I buy
just works and works without any trouble.

I've had the odd VCR fail on some functions, but not after 1-3 years,
more like 7-8 years. Otoh others I own (and I own quite a few) are
still going fine in every respect. I use them regularly.

Presumably all the posters feel cars are way worse too? Not in my
universe. Car repairs used to feed lots of families, they sure don't
do that now. I have a cheap Hyundai car. It has done 130,000Km over 9
years with only normal services. Nothing on it has broken or burnt
out. Great car, in my book.

Of course, most of this stuff won't resist serious useage abuse. I
keep my electronic stuff clean or stored properly, and I don't load it
with dirty or dusty media. I also service the car regularly, which
services aren't needed very often these days, and I don't belt the
living crap out of it when driving it.

Ross



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