I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, Andrey wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.

Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.

Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.

The car must be a bit smashed up after the airbags got deployed. Again
leave airbag deployment electronics to someone who knows what they're
doing.

As these are a *safety* item, and if they're not setup correctly they may
not deploy when needed, or could deploy when not needed, with the obvious
legal implications.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
---------------



"michael turner" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, Andrey wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.

Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.

Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.

The car must be a bit smashed up after the airbags got deployed. Again
leave airbag deployment electronics to someone who knows what they're
doing.

As these are a *safety* item, and if they're not setup correctly they may
not deploy when needed, or could deploy when not needed, with the obvious
legal implications.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--


The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:50:25 -0800, Sofie wrote:

Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.

Yup I totally agree with you Daniel.

For the benefit of anyone who's never seen an airbag being deployed. This
page contains a video clip of one.
http://www.mobilityconversions.com/airbag_going_off.htm
BANG!

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can I
Sue?'

/soapbox

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
---------------



"michael turner" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, Andrey wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.

Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.

Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.

The car must be a bit smashed up after the airbags got deployed. Again
leave airbag deployment electronics to someone who knows what they're
doing.

As these are a *safety* item, and if they're not setup correctly they
may
not deploy when needed, or could deploy when not needed, with the
obvious
legal implications.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.

Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.

... and is legally licensed to service SRS systems. - Reinhart

BANG!

Pretty much.

The only way an airbag can deploy out of its container within the short time
span in order to be effective as a supplemental restraint is by literally
exploding out of it.

The notion of someone getting their arm broken by the airbag when it deploys
while they were executing a manuver with the hand under the wheel is not just
merely possible, it has happened before! - Reinhart

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius"
wrote:
soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can I
Sue?'
Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being a
libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.

/soapbox

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
---------------



"michael turner" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, Andrey wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.

Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.

Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.

The car must be a bit smashed up after the airbags got deployed. Again
leave airbag deployment electronics to someone who knows what they're
doing.

As these are a *safety* item, and if they're not setup correctly they
may
not deploy when needed, or could deploy when not needed, with the
obvious
legal implications.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:06:23 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--


The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.

"gothika" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius"
wrote:
soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can
I
Sue?'
Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being a
libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.

snip

That's a silly assumption. Actually, I have very radical political views.
Can't stand the 2 party system in America, and I'm grieved that our form of
democracy is largely broken (although it's still better than many places
form of gov't).

And I don't assume it's the victims fault everytime. But many many of the
lawsuits are frivolous(sp?) as they are the result some idiot doing more
than s/he should or could.

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussions, and I should have
refrained from phrasing it the way I did, although it is a valid warning.

Feel free to take them private if you believe you can keep up.

tymanthius-at-usa-dot-net

"Tymanthius" wrote in message
. ..

"gothika" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius"
wrote:
soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who
Can
I
Sue?'
Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being a
libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.

snip

That's a silly assumption. Actually, I have very radical political views.
Can't stand the 2 party system in America, and I'm grieved that our form
of
democracy is largely broken (although it's still better than many places
form of gov't).

And I don't assume it's the victims fault everytime. But many many of the
lawsuits are frivolous(sp?) as they are the result some idiot doing more
than s/he should or could.

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussions, and I should have
refrained from phrasing it the way I did, although it is a valid warning.

Feel free to take them private if you believe you can keep up.

tymanthius-at-usa-dot-net



I'd have to agree, the real world is dangerous, it can mame or kill, enter
at your own risk. If a product is blatantly dangerous to use as directed
then the manufacture should be at fault, if a product is capable of being
*misused* in a way that's dangerous and someone gets hurt, that's their own
damn fault.

Same with those silly cases of people trespassing and getting hurt sueing
the owner of the property, if you break into *my* house and manage to hurt
yourself, regardless of the circumstances you were not authorized to be
there and it should *not* be my fault what happens. I'm not republican
either, but this country has far too many lawyers.

The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a
few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending
up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with
an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I
know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.

Even if you are the best driver ever, you never know what driving
precautions the driver next to you is taking. So even if you drive safely,
someone else might hit you. Happens to all of us. I agree though, if
you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.


And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.

James Sweet wrote:

[snip]

And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.

And anyway, an airbag won't do you a bit of good in a rollover or
similar accident with multiple impacts. With a seatbelt, at least your
body doesn't go bouncing around the inside of the vehicle as it rolls.

--
Paul Hovnanian
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
Broken pipe. Command flooded basement.

"gothika" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:06:23 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to
factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an
awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described.....
not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed
or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to
and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--


The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.

Even if you are the best driver ever, you never know what driving
precautions the driver next to you is taking. So even if you drive safely,
someone else might hit you. Happens to all of us. I agree though, if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Yes, but don't the latest cars have thousands of airbags all over the
place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
getting splat! :-)

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
James Sweet wrote:

[snip]


And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.


And anyway, an airbag won't do you a bit of good in a rollover or
similar accident with multiple impacts. With a seatbelt, at least your
body doesn't go bouncing around the inside of the vehicle as it rolls.

On 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, (Andrey) wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.


Not so much an electronics issue, more an energetic materials one. You
do realise that air bags are deployed by a small charge of
*explosive*? The control unit is probably fine, since it is just a
g-force trigger to fire the explosives. Get some semtex, or just take
it to the repair shop and try not to hit lamp posts too hard next
time.

"electricked" no_emails_please wrote in message
...

if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
likely to cause injury.

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe that we
shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries
than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
thing as research you know.

Leonard Caillouet

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:00:33 -0600, gothika
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:06:23 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--


The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.




In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

In article ,
sparky wrote:

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:00:09 -0500, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
sparky wrote:

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.

I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
not a toy like a Saturn.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Nick Hull
wrote (in ) about
'airbags', on Tue, 17 Feb 2004:

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.

Maybe they fitted AnaBolic Steroids by mistake.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Sofie wrote:

Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.

Yes, there is liability. yes you need to know what your doing.
Can you fix them yourself if your knowledgeable and prepared?
Yes.

I repaired them on my 1990 ford taurus. It took much research to do it.
Most aftermarket manuals have NO information on the airbag systems.
(due to liability issues no doubt). I had to get the Ford factory manuals
to find the information. I discovered many issues that can affect operation.
Just the grounding of the sensors can affect operation.
So in some cases, just undoing the sensors and prepping the mount
surface from rust and corrosion will do the trick.

You have to follow the shop manuals instructions. Usually, this involves
disconnecting the battery and powering down the car for x amount of time before
you touch anything. This is very important.

In my case, i regrounded the sensors and replaced a few.
Even after that, i still had a blinking air bag light.
After replacing the air bag diagnostic module, i finally got mine
fixed.

Mine was a older car. I used salvaged parts. Many people consider
this NOT kosher. My spin is if they were working on the car they came off of,
they should be usable on my car. and they were.
Better have used parts and no airbag light than a blinking light
and NO airbags. Is it a 100% guarantee they will be OK? NO.
But better than no airbags at all if they were disabled by a blinking
code.


The rules for working on airbags are having the factory manuals,
researching all the error code blinks and what they mean, and being
more than careful. Its not for the faint of heart. If your technically
competent, you can do it with the proper stuff. If your not,
pay someone to do it.

Bob




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

"FoxyRick" KilledBySpam.com wrote in message
...
On 16 Feb 2004 16:13:51 -0800, (Andrey) wrote:

I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.


Not so much an electronics issue, more an energetic materials one. You
do realise that air bags are deployed by a small charge of
*explosive*? The control unit is probably fine, since it is just a
g-force trigger to fire the explosives. Get some semtex, or just take
it to the repair shop and try not to hit lamp posts too hard next
time.

His issue is probably that the car won't start once the airbags are
deployed, IIRC it disables the engine computer.

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
news:52nYb.301$f23.111@lakeread02...

"electricked" no_emails_please wrote in message
...

if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
likely to cause injury.

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe that
we
shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries
than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
thing as research you know.


No, I just believe that I shouldn't have an airbag in my own car and that
it's more likely to injure me than help me, immunizations and helmets are
like seatbelts, a no brainer.

"Nick Hull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
sparky wrote:

Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.


A bad ABS system is worse than none at all, the ABS in my Volvo is quite
good and I've been pleased with it, didn't choose to have it, just
discovered it was there after I bought the car, would choose it in the
future if I could.

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:00:09 -0500, Nick Hull
wrote:


In article ,
sparky wrote:


Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.


In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.

I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.


I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
not a toy like a Saturn.

...Jim Thompson

lol,
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.

-Lasse

James Sweet wrote:
"Sofie" wrote in message
...

Michael Turner:
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to

stay

certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a

horrific

accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--



The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.



Aren't those airbags so "excessively powerful" to protect those who are
too stupid to wear a seatbelt?

I've heard of airbags deplying from minor parking accidents (maybe early
ones?) replacing the airbags, the steering wheel etc. and these days
probably the seats and the ceiling is very expensive ...

-Lasse

"Mark (UK)" wrote:

Yes, but don't the latest cars have thousands of airbags all over the
place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
getting splat! :-)

They're only good for one impact. If you roll a car (or, more likely an
SUV) without a seat belt, you'll do quite a bit of bouncing around
inside the car. Or through the windshield.

With a seat belt, I've seen people walk away from a rolled Jeep. In
fact, a co-worker drove hers away when her Jeep came to rest back on its
wheels. Needless to say, roll bars help as
well.

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
James Sweet wrote:

[snip]


And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.


And anyway, an airbag won't do you a bit of good in a rollover or
similar accident with multiple impacts. With a seatbelt, at least your
body doesn't go bouncing around the inside of the vehicle as it rolls.


--
Paul Hovnanian
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
The only tools one needs in life:
WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make them stop.

"James Sweet" wrote:

I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

There have been "more than several" models of vehicle that have been
recalled because of airbags detonating randomly... (including the
previous-year-model of the car I drive :/) Having fired an airbag in
an open space just to see what it's like, I'm sure I NEVER want to see
it happen two feet in front of my face. I was raised in a country
where it is normal practice to get in the car and put on the seatbelt
as an atomic operation. I frankly don't believe the slight additional
protection of an airbag (assuming a correctly seated and belted
driver/passenger), is worth the risk.

As of 1997(?) North American-market cars are factory-fitted with
"second-generation" airbags that have approximately 1/2 the inflation
force of older first-generation airbags. I think it's likely you'll
find the inflation pressure of airbags in current-year vehicles is
pretty much the same worldwide.

One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:42:10 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

"Mark (UK)" wrote:

Yes, but don't the latest cars have thousands of airbags all over the
place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
getting splat! :-)

They're only good for one impact. If you roll a car (or, more likely an
SUV) without a seat belt, you'll do quite a bit of bouncing around
inside the car. Or through the windshield.

With a seat belt, I've seen people walk away from a rolled Jeep. In
fact, a co-worker drove hers away when her Jeep came to rest back on its
wheels. Needless to say, roll bars help as
well.

[snip]

Weirdest one I ever saw was a drunken ******* in an old Buick
hot-rodding down Scottsdale Road (in that section between Cave Creek
and Bell with all the dips).

Dropped a front U-joint and the drive shaft dug into the pavement
right in the bottom of a dip.

Car did a pole vault and slid backwards on its roof for nearly a
hundred yards.

The deceleration G's were such that the drunkard was pinned in his
seat, and walked away with just a few scratches from falling to the
roof when the car slowed down ;-)

Speaking of Jeeps, a co-worker of mine drove her Jeep thru a running
wash... fortunately she was a good swimmer. The Jeep went in at 7th
Avenue and stopped a few blocks from the 19th AVenue crossing.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 17 Feb 2004 14:57:44 -0800, (Lewin A.R.W. Edwards)
wrote:

[snip]
One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.

Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" wrote in message
om...
"James Sweet" wrote:

I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

There have been "more than several" models of vehicle that have been
recalled because of airbags detonating randomly... (including the
previous-year-model of the car I drive :/) Having fired an airbag in
an open space just to see what it's like, I'm sure I NEVER want to see
it happen two feet in front of my face. I was raised in a country
where it is normal practice to get in the car and put on the seatbelt
as an atomic operation. I frankly don't believe the slight additional
protection of an airbag (assuming a correctly seated and belted
driver/passenger), is worth the risk.

As of 1997(?) North American-market cars are factory-fitted with
"second-generation" airbags that have approximately 1/2 the inflation
force of older first-generation airbags. I think it's likely you'll
find the inflation pressure of airbags in current-year vehicles is
pretty much the same worldwide.

One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.

I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering wheel,
pointed at the driver.

Ken

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
news:52nYb.301$f23.111@lakeread02...

"electricked" no_emails_please wrote in message
...

if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.

--Viktor

Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
likely to cause injury.

I agree. That's why you should always buckle up.

So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars?

Yes, that's my opinion. I disconnected mine as soon as I got the car.
Airbags are too much hassle. First you pay more to have them included in the
package, second they injure you, and third you have to pay even more for
getting injured. No thanks!

Do you believe that we shouldn't immunize children?

How did children get into the picture? I never said anything about
immunizing your children, or your children at all. All I talked about was
seat belts and airbags. And since you mentioned children, I'd recommend you
don't put your children close to an airbag. Just a suggestion, take it as
you wish.

That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries than they prevent?

Again, you're comparing apple and oranges here. Precisely, you're comparing
motorcycle helmets and airbags which have nothing to do with each other. I'm
all for safety, but airbags somehow don't make me feel more safe. I suggest
you wear a motorcycle helmet, if you're still having trouble reading between
the lines.

That GFCI receptacles cause cancer?

Boy o' Boy! You seem confused...

There is such a thing as research you know.

Research is fine by me, but when experience has showed me the opposite of
theory I'd rather follow realistic safety precautions. Just because honda
said airbags are cool and protective doesn't mean they are. And just because
they are looking for ways to make hondas safer, doesn't mean they have found
an optimal way. Seat belts do an excellent job at keeping you alive.

Leonard Caillouet

Nice to meet you Leonard.

--Viktor

"Ken Taylor" wrote in message
...
"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" wrote in message
om...
"James Sweet" wrote:

I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.

There have been "more than several" models of vehicle that have been
recalled because of airbags detonating randomly... (including the
previous-year-model of the car I drive :/) Having fired an airbag in
an open space just to see what it's like, I'm sure I NEVER want to see
it happen two feet in front of my face. I was raised in a country
where it is normal practice to get in the car and put on the seatbelt
as an atomic operation. I frankly don't believe the slight additional
protection of an airbag (assuming a correctly seated and belted
driver/passenger), is worth the risk.

As of 1997(?) North American-market cars are factory-fitted with
"second-generation" airbags that have approximately 1/2 the inflation
force of older first-generation airbags. I think it's likely you'll
find the inflation pressure of airbags in current-year vehicles is
pretty much the same worldwide.

One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.

I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering wheel,
pointed at the driver.

Ken

And how will that work? Are they going to include a supplementary button
which reads "I did something stupid. Slap me please!" BANG!

--Viktor

"electricked" no_emails_please wrote in message
...

"Ken Taylor" wrote in message
...
"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" wrote in message
om...
"James Sweet" wrote:

I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car
with
properly buckled occupants.

There have been "more than several" models of vehicle that have been
recalled because of airbags detonating randomly... (including the
previous-year-model of the car I drive :/) Having fired an airbag in
an open space just to see what it's like, I'm sure I NEVER want to see
it happen two feet in front of my face. I was raised in a country
where it is normal practice to get in the car and put on the seatbelt
as an atomic operation. I frankly don't believe the slight additional
protection of an airbag (assuming a correctly seated and belted
driver/passenger), is worth the risk.

As of 1997(?) North American-market cars are factory-fitted with
"second-generation" airbags that have approximately 1/2 the inflation
force of older first-generation airbags. I think it's likely you'll
find the inflation pressure of airbags in current-year vehicles is
pretty much the same worldwide.

One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.

I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering
wheel,
pointed at the driver.

Ken

And how will that work? Are they going to include a supplementary button
which reads "I did something stupid. Slap me please!" BANG!

--Viktor

No, remember, it's a psychologist's thinking - he is after behavior
modification. If everyone had a spike in the steering wheel like that,
they'd drive a damn sight more carefully!

Ken

"Andrey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.

It seems to me to be really stoopid to fiddle with something that your
life is so dependent on. Like, didja ever think what the insurance
company would say if they found out that you 'fixed' your airbag?
Probably say, so long chump, you'll have to sue to collect!

"Tymanthius" wrote in message
. ..

"gothika" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius"

wrote:
soapbox

Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and
'Who Can
I
Sue?'
Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being
a
libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.

snip

That's a silly assumption. Actually, I have very radical political
views.
Can't stand the 2 party system in America, and I'm grieved that our
form of
democracy is largely broken (although it's still better than many
places
form of gov't).

And I don't assume it's the victims fault everytime. But many many of
the
lawsuits are frivolous(sp?) as they are the result some idiot doing
more
than s/he should or could.

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussions, and I should have
refrained from phrasing it the way I did, although it is a valid
warning.

Feel free to take them private if you believe you can keep up.

tymanthius-at-usa-dot-net



I was sued for $6k, and I along with the other parties, plumber,
insurance company, etc, settled with the ******* for $3k. He pulled a
setup, pretended to slip and fall, then they called the paramedics,
claimed he hurt his neck. I was disappointed that the other parties
were gonna settle, and not push for a court date. I call it legal
theft. But that doesn't mean I don't have faith in the legal system.
It still works, even tho some people manage to take advantage of it.

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" wrote
in message ...

"Andrey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.

It seems to me to be really stoopid to fiddle with something that your
life is so dependent on. Like, didja ever think what the insurance
company would say if they found out that you 'fixed' your airbag?
Probably say, so long chump, you'll have to sue to collect!



Well first of all you spelled stupid wrong, second of all, your life is not
always "so dependent" on an airbag, a properly designed car that has a rigid
passenger cage, crumple zones, collapsible steering column and other
features that have been around for a few decades now will do just fine to
protect the occupants without an explosive charged bag a foot from the
driver's face.

What I don't understand is that I can pick up for example a '90 240 either
with or without the airbag (it was optional at the time) and the model
without the bag is perfectly legal to own, drive and sell, and I may add has
a safety record superior to a great many new cars, yet if I get a model with
an airbag and remove it, that's illegal. Well screw it, I'd disconnect it
anyway and just never sell the car, or better yet, I'll just stick with ones
that don't have it in the first place.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:neEYb.212362$U%5.1228300@attbi_s03...

face.

What I don't understand is that I can pick up for example a '90 240 either
with or without the airbag (it was optional at the time) and the model
without the bag is perfectly legal to own, drive and sell, and I may add
has
a safety record superior to a great many new cars, yet if I get a model
with
an airbag and remove it, that's illegal. Well screw it, I'd disconnect it
anyway and just never sell the car, or better yet, I'll just stick with
ones
that don't have it in the first place.


Why ask why when it comes to government regs.... in california the state
recycler will pay you for aluminum cans, but only if they have the state
seal on them. V* Tomato juics has no seal, and the recycler will go through
the cans and throw out the V* cans. Now is the Al in those cans somehow less
important thant he Al in any other can? By throwing those cans out, the
state is littering and doing everything they say we *citizens* can't or
shouldn't do. It's all Bulls***. I deactivated my airbags after a friend of
the family got his neck broken by one when it went off...