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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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question about Sony Discman
This is an "out of curiosity" question. I have multiple backups of this unit,
and //do not// intend to repair it. I just want to see if anyone has any interesting insights. The unit is a D-FJ75TR, one of Sony's last "deluxe" Discmans. I'd been using it to listen to CDs in bed, and yesterday it stopped working correctly. When I install the batteries, or plug it into the adapter, it immediately starts to play -- and none of the controls work. I can't pause it, change the track, set the volume, etc. Nor do any of the controls on the remote/tuner module work. (Unplugging the remote doesn't fix the problem. And the control lock button isn't jammed.) The "obvious" answer is CMOS lockup, which I've seen on other products. Yanking the power while the device is running sometimes cures this, but not in this case. I'm not trying to start an extended, overwrought discussion. I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas. Thanks. |
#2
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question about Sony Discman
On 30/11/2014 18:40, William Sommerwerck wrote:
This is an "out of curiosity" question. I have multiple backups of this unit, and //do not// intend to repair it. I just want to see if anyone has any interesting insights. The unit is a D-FJ75TR, one of Sony's last "deluxe" Discmans. I'd been using it to listen to CDs in bed, and yesterday it stopped working correctly. When I install the batteries, or plug it into the adapter, it immediately starts to play -- and none of the controls work. I can't pause it, change the track, set the volume, etc. Nor do any of the controls on the remote/tuner module work. (Unplugging the remote doesn't fix the problem. And the control lock button isn't jammed.) The "obvious" answer is CMOS lockup, which I've seen on other products. Yanking the power while the device is running sometimes cures this, but not in this case. I'm not trying to start an extended, overwrought discussion. I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas. Thanks. stuck contact of a key? |
#3
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question about Sony Discman
Stuck contact of a key?
The obvious one would be the Play button (as the unit starts playing when I put the batteries in). I'll try holding down the Play button on a "good" unit, and see what happens. |
#4
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question about Sony Discman
Some models had a "lock" switch to keep random hits from affecting the play while one is jogging or something.
HAHAHA, Sony thought people in this country jog ! |
#5
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question about Sony Discman
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... On 30/11/2014 18:40, William Sommerwerck wrote: This is an "out of curiosity" question. I have multiple backups of this unit, and //do not// intend to repair it. I just want to see if anyone has any interesting insights. The unit is a D-FJ75TR, one of Sony's last "deluxe" Discmans. I'd been using it to listen to CDs in bed, and yesterday it stopped working correctly. When I install the batteries, or plug it into the adapter, it immediately starts to play -- and none of the controls work. I can't pause it, change the track, set the volume, etc. Nor do any of the controls on the remote/tuner module work. (Unplugging the remote doesn't fix the problem. And the control lock button isn't jammed.) The "obvious" answer is CMOS lockup, which I've seen on other products. Yanking the power while the device is running sometimes cures this, but not in this case. I'm not trying to start an extended, overwrought discussion. I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas. Thanks. stuck contact of a key? I thought so too. Gareth. |
#6
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question about Sony Discman
When the Play/Pause button is held down, a "good" unit misbehaves in exactly
the same way as the "bad" unit, whether or not the remote control is installed. The Play/Pause button isn't jammed, so it would seem the fault is somewhere in the wiring. I have the service manual. When I find it, I'll tear into the lid (which holds the key pad). It couldn't hurt. |
#7
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question about Sony Discman
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... When the Play/Pause button is held down, a "good" unit misbehaves in exactly the same way as the "bad" unit, whether or not the remote control is installed. The Play/Pause button isn't jammed, so it would seem the fault is somewhere in the wiring. I have the service manual. When I find it, I'll tear into the lid (which holds the key pad). It couldn't hurt. Assuming that it's one of the tactile 'dome' switches, it is very common for these to 'collapse' and effectively fail short circuit. I know that you said you were not looking to repair it, but it really is a very simple fix if you can be bothered to take it apart. Arfa |
#8
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question about Sony Discman
Assuming that it's one of the tactile 'dome' switches, it is very common for these to 'collapse' and effectively fail short circuit. I know that you said you were not looking to repair it, but it really is a very simple fix if you can be bothered to take it apart. Arfa He said it wasn't collapsed, although there's the possibility some liquid was spilled in the key matrix and is causing an unintended function command. But I've seen a few of these over the years where the scan lines can be unsoldered at the micro for a test and the fault remains. Sometimes it's a bad micro caused by a static discharge through the control board. |
#9
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question about Sony Discman
"John-Del" wrote in message ... Assuming that it's one of the tactile 'dome' switches, it is very common for these to 'collapse' and effectively fail short circuit. I know that you said you were not looking to repair it, but it really is a very simple fix if you can be bothered to take it apart. Arfa He said it wasn't collapsed, although there's the possibility some liquid was spilled in the key matrix and is causing an unintended function command. But I've seen a few of these over the years where the scan lines can be unsoldered at the micro for a test and the fault remains. Sometimes it's a bad micro caused by a static discharge through the control board. I had a piano keyboard once that had lost some notes. It turned out the scan IC scanned both the keys and the button/LED matrix using part of the same bus. One LED was short circuited, which disabled one line shared with the keys, taking out the whole bunch of notes. Gareth. |
#10
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question about Sony Discman
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
Assuming that it's one of the tactile 'dome' switches, it is very common for these to 'collapse' and effectively fail short circuit. I know that you said you were not looking to repair it, but it really is a very simple fix if you can be bothered to take it apart. It's not a question of "bothered". I have to find the service manual so I can "rationally" remove the lid. (It's not obvious how it comes off.) Once that's done, it will be a simple matter to unscrew the panel covering the switch pad. Thanks for your encouragement. Now, if I can get some help with the Lux amplifier I damaged yesterday... (There's always John Curl.) |
#11
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question about Sony Discman
"John-Del" wrote in message ... Assuming that it's one of the tactile 'dome' switches, it is very common for these to 'collapse' and effectively fail short circuit. I know that you said you were not looking to repair it, but it really is a very simple fix if you can be bothered to take it apart. Arfa He said it wasn't collapsed, although there's the possibility some liquid was spilled in the key matrix and is causing an unintended function command. Err, no he didn't. He said it wasn't jammed, which is an entirely different thing. I replace many many of these buttons on a variety of equipment that uses them, and it is not at all uncommon for the dome to collapse, whilst the outer control button remains free to move. But I've seen a few of these over the years where the scan lines can be unsoldered at the micro for a test and the fault remains. Sometimes it's a bad micro caused by a static discharge through the control board. I've had one or two failed micros over the years, but compared to faulty switches, the relative proportion is vanishingly small Arfa |
#12
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question about Sony Discman
On Monday, December 1, 2014 8:23:21 PM UTC-5, Arfa Daily wrote:
He said it wasn't collapsed, although there's the possibility some liquid was spilled in the key matrix and is causing an unintended function command. Err, no he didn't. He said it wasn't jammed, which is an entirely different thing. I replace many many of these buttons on a variety of equipment that uses them, and it is not at all uncommon for the dome to collapse, whilst the outer control button remains free to move. If you're talking to a customer on the phone and they say it isn't jammed, it's possible the switch collapsed and they can't tell the difference. But Mr. S is clearly no newbie. If he says it's not jammed, it's a fairly safe assumption that the tactile feedback of his play button is the same as the rest of the buttons on the machine. |
#13
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question about Sony Discman
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
I've had one or two failed micros over the years, but compared to faulty switches, the relative proportion is vanishingly small. As soon as I find the service manual (which I will be looking for this morning), I will let you guys know. (I'm sure you're waiting with bated breath.) Practical servicing question, Arfa... If I'm soldering in a CMOS-based device that's battery-operated, would it make sense to leave the batteries in, on the (likely faulty) assumption they would supply a low-impedance path for errant voltages? Of course not! I shouldn't have written that! I'm making a fool of myself! |
#14
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question about Sony Discman
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... I've had one or two failed micros over the years, but compared to faulty switches, the relative proportion is vanishingly small. As soon as I find the service manual (which I will be looking for this morning), I will let you guys know. (I'm sure you're waiting with bated breath.) Practical servicing question, Arfa... If I'm soldering in a CMOS-based device that's battery-operated, would it make sense to leave the batteries in, on the (likely faulty) assumption they would supply a low-impedance path for errant voltages? Of course not! I shouldn't have written that! I'm making a fool of myself! Personally, I never leave batteries in anything that I'm working on with a soldering iron. Just employ normal good workshop practice of having a resistively grounded wrist strap to a conductive bench mat. In my experience, the chances of damaging CMOS inputs these days is very small, given that they pretty much universally have protection diodes fabbed into the chip, and usually some external R, positioned close to the chip. Arfa |
#15
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question about Sony Discman
"John-Del" wrote in message ... On Monday, December 1, 2014 8:23:21 PM UTC-5, Arfa Daily wrote: He said it wasn't collapsed, although there's the possibility some liquid was spilled in the key matrix and is causing an unintended function command. Err, no he didn't. He said it wasn't jammed, which is an entirely different thing. I replace many many of these buttons on a variety of equipment that uses them, and it is not at all uncommon for the dome to collapse, whilst the outer control button remains free to move. If you're talking to a customer on the phone and they say it isn't jammed, it's possible the switch collapsed and they can't tell the difference. But Mr. S is clearly no newbie. If he says it's not jammed, it's a fairly safe assumption that the tactile feedback of his play button is the same as the rest of the buttons on the machine. In servicing, it's a rule to never assume anything. It depends a lot on the exact type of switch and how the outer 'user' button is implemented. Some of the buttons have very little 'snap-action' feel to them, and the majority of the return force on the user button comes from its plastic flexible hinge, rather than from the switch itself. In those cases, it is perfectly possible for the switch to collapse, but for the button not to feel much, if any, different from normal or from any of the others. With some other types, the travel of the switch plunger is so small on a correctly operating one, that a collapsed one feels little different. Also, bear in mind that these switches do not normally collapse spontaneously. Instead, they wear, until one day, the last little bit of movement expires, and the switch goes short. The switch will then feel absolutely no different today when it no longer works, than it did yesterday when it did work ... Yes, you are right that William is "no newbie", but by the same token, he is not a 'current' engineer, and may not be able to feel the subtle differences that we are talking here, without understanding the way his unit is put together, and the failure mechanisms involved in these switches. Arfa |
#16
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question about Sony Discman
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
Yes, you are right that William is "no newbie", but by the same token, he is not a 'current' engineer, and may not be able to feel the subtle differences that we are talking here, without understanding the way his unit is put together, and the failure mechanisms involved in these switches. Which you have explained very well. PS: I am very capable of feeling subtle differences -- especially in a product I have used many times. |
#17
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question about Sony Discman
As soon as I find the service manual (which I'll be looking
for this morning), I'll let you guys know. (I'm sure you're waiting with bated breath.) Found it, and have "released" the lid. Unfortunately, the bottom of the unit gets in the way of it swinging back, so //that's// going to have to come off. Nothing is ever simple. I just keep telling myself "It's kaput, so what difference does it make?" |
#18
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question about Sony Discman
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:14:05 AM UTC-5, William Sommerwerck wrote:
As soon as I find the service manual (which I'll be looking for this morning), I'll let you guys know. (I'm sure you're waiting with bated breath.) Found it, and have "released" the lid. Unfortunately, the bottom of the unit gets in the way of it swinging back, so //that's// going to have to come off. Nothing is ever simple. I just keep telling myself "It's kaput, so what difference does it make?" Morbid curiosity most likely. If you've got time that would otherwise be wasted watching TV, then you'll probably enjoy solving the puzzle more. |
#19
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question about Sony Discman
"John-Del" wrote in message
... On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:14:05 AM UTC-5, William Sommerwerck wrote: Nothing is ever simple. I just keep telling myself "It's kaput, so what difference does it make?" Morbid curiosity most likely. We like to think we're "smarter" than the equipment we're working on. In this case, though... There's no question the Play button is shorted to ground even when it's not pressed. But... the controls work through a resistor ladder, and the readings I get for the resistors are backwards (eg, the 10K "base" resistor is readable only when the Play button is pressed, though it should be other other way around). This, of course, has nothing to do with the problem (I think), but it drives me crazy. "Just for luck", I pulled the cable from the main board and reinserted it. I think I'll just put it back together and forget about it. (This problems isn't going to have one of those "It works! It's a miracle!" endings.) I have spares, and this model (D-FJ75TR) shows up on eBay occasionally at a low price. So it's no big deal. If you've got time that would otherwise be wasted watching TV, then you'll probably enjoy solving the puzzle more. I have a pile of books worth reading (among others, I'm working my way through LIFE's "The Old West"), and a list as long as my arm of things to update or repair. I'm trying to do one a day, but it's more like two a week. I just blew out a classic Lux amp, so that's risen to the top of my list. I did watch two Blu-ray movies yesterday, "Gojira" and "42". I was anxious to see the latter, as an acquaintance was in it. TV watching is limited to when I go to bed -- which, in this weather, is fairly early. |
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