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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Do NTE series ICs exist
Did they ever exist?
Why would some company make IC eqivalents for ICs that were used in 30 year old domestic equipment? I could understand, for keeping ancient industrial equipment going. Or is it just another Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet |
#2
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Do NTE series ICs exist
On 10/31/2014 04:57 AM, N_Cook wrote:
Did they ever exist? Why would some company make IC eqivalents for ICs that were used in 30 year old domestic equipment? I could understand, for keeping ancient industrial equipment going. Or is it just another Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet Only use NTE as a last resort. Digikey, Mouser both ham/experimenter friendly. MCM (Farnell?) good folks too. |
#3
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Do NTE series ICs exist
On 10/31/2014, 4:57 AM, N_Cook wrote:
Did they ever exist? Why would some company make IC eqivalents for ICs that were used in 30 year old domestic equipment? I could understand, for keeping ancient industrial equipment going. Or is it just another Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet NTE parts are real, they simply relabeled existing parts. Probably have a huge inventory of spares, but they did always ask a premium price for these. They were used in the Radio/TV/VCR repair industry, originally called ECG and they were bought out by NTE. John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
#4
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Do NTE series ICs exist
In th old days alot o shops used them. I avoided it because I could usuall get te OEM for less. The 123 and 159 for exa,ple were just 2N3904 and 6. I used to joke that you pay more for the bag than the part.
Actually NTE was not first. Their "line" was the same as ECG which was Sylvania, ECG stood for Electronics Components Group while NTE stood for Nu Tone Electronics. Another cheap brand using the same cross reference was ERS, and those were not even as good as the others. And none of them ever made a part. They simply remarked them, and sometimes didn't even do that. The SK line sold by RCA was actually better quality, and of course RCA mad/makes some semiconductors. I imagine they have access to better ones and can control the quality better. They used a totally different set of numbers though. In my work, I got to the point where I didn't even bother with part numbers.. the application told me what was needed, and for those who say that ain't kosher, I remind you that most shops used ECGs or NTEs which was much worse. My system was better. For example 2SC1887 replaces 2SC1885 for most line oiutput in RCA NTSC sets of certain years. They are identical except the 1887 is a bit beefier. So I can buy 20 of those and get the discount instead of buying ten 1885s and ten 1887s. Upgrading a line output transistor in the US has been perfectly kosher since about 1976 when it became illegal for the safety of the set to depend on the failure of a seiconductor device. Before then they counted on the transistor failing to keep the HV should certain faults occur which would ake it rise to undesirable levels. Same with the 2SC1881 replacing the 1879, they are slightly different than the 1885/7, but the same as each other. And then in audio there were the popular pairs to blow the 2SC3280 and 2SA1301. Well of course I gave them 2SC3281 and 2SA1302. Certain transistors are critical though, bias transistors in amps I like to stick with the original if at all possible, in fact oin most audio when it comes to the audio chain itself. When it comes to voltage regulators, relay drivers etc., it really doesn't matter. But for transistors that actually amplify audio or video, you want the specs really close. That means looking at the spec sheet. I bought the books in the old days, not I just get them online. I have very little problems finding most replacement parts for old stuff. Alot of people like me started doing the same thing and that pretty much marginalized these replacement lines. And now, lately I needed an FM IC for a Technics receiver and has no choice but to use an NTE, and the thing didn't work right.. No choice at all. I have stayed away from those thing if possible for at least twenty years. |
#5
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Do NTE series ICs exist
I too rarely use NTE unless there is no alternative. That being said however, I do have a large selection in stock of both NTE and ECG components. I often need to use these for anyu germanium replacements.
If you need a specific one that is no longer available, let me know. I may have one or two. Dan |
#6
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Do NTE series ICs exist
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#7
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Do NTE series ICs exist
N_Cook wrote: On 31/10/2014 15:45, wrote: I too rarely use NTE unless there is no alternative. That being said however, I do have a large selection in stock of both NTE and ECG components. I often need to use these for anyu germanium replacements. If you need a specific one that is no longer available, let me know. I may have one or two. Dan So whatever the NTE or CGE label says, the underlying IC would be original Sanyo/NEC/Harris or whatever of the 1980s or even 1970s? Not CGE, it was Sylvania's Electronic Components Group. RCA was the first supplier of universal replacements in the '60s, when it could take six months or longer to get an original transistor or diode. GE followed, with some of the worst crap ever sold to a service tech. Workman and ECG followed. NuTone Electronics copied the ECG numbering system. before ECG was sold to Philips. NTE bout the remains of ECG when Philips left the market. The reason for the pricing is because a distributor had to sit on a lot of slow moving inventory. In the '60s & '70s you could pay the price, or lose a customer by having to wait too long. BTW, the original RCA cross reference was printed on a fold out the same size as their retail tube price list so you could carry it in a shirt pocket. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#8
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Do NTE series ICs exist
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014, N_Cook wrote:
Did they ever exist? Why would some company make IC eqivalents for ICs that were used in 30 year old domestic equipment? I could understand, for keeping ancient industrial equipment going. Or is it just another Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet There were lots of replacement lines, RCA SK, Motorola HEP, Radio Shack had a small selection, I recall GE did for a while. It was an attempt at providing a universal line, when otherwise getting the part meant dealing with multiple sources. Some were better than others. Radio Shack wsa pretty limited. HEP started out small, and the ICs were mostly Motorola (and they at least aimed it at the "Hobbyist, Experimenter, Professional", so for the first two, "something close" was good enough, and it was more important to be able to get reasonably current ICs in West Podunk, ND than to get it cheap only if you mail ordered. HEP got better with time, but like some of them, the replacements were generally work alikes rather than exact, so the substitution guide would often cross to a similar sort of IC rather than an exact match. I had various guides, they were useful since it was easier looking up transistor specs and not hving to go through differnet books from different manufacturers. But since the replacement parts were so expensive compared to the original, I couldn't afford the replacement line parts. ECG and then NTE came later, and offered a higher level of replacement. They were less about workalikes than exact replacements. Each were a much mroe extensive line, which meant a store that stocked them had to carry more items, but at least they all came from the same source. Or I suppose if they didnt' carry it, they could get the item from the distributor fast, and still avoid having to deal with multiple distributors.If you looked up a part in the ECG or NTE guide (that eventually became one and the same), you were getting either the part, or very close to it. Earlier replacement lines would expect you to live with a generally the same type of transistor (though at least those were prime components if you were buying from Motorola), so a lot of devices would cross to the same replacement part. ECG and NTE seemed to try to be a lot closer match, hence the much larger replacement line. Michael |
#9
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Do NTE series ICs exist
On Friday, October 31, 2014 9:01:02 AM UTC-7, N_Cook wrote:
So whatever the NTE or CGE label says, the underlying IC would be original Sanyo/NEC/Harris or whatever of the 1980s or even 1970s? Yes. The mold markings give away the origin, sometimes, but the print on the package is always the NTE part number and logo. One presumes that NTE has a warehouse of new-old-stock parts. |
#10
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Do NTE series ICs exist
On 01/11/2014 18:26, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, October 31, 2014 9:01:02 AM UTC-7, N_Cook wrote: So whatever the NTE or CGE label says, the underlying IC would be original Sanyo/NEC/Harris or whatever of the 1980s or even 1970s? Yes. The mold markings give away the origin, sometimes, but the print on the package is always the NTE part number and logo. One presumes that NTE has a warehouse of new-old-stock parts. I wonder how they disguise the inevitable age-corrossion of the pins. Unless you stored them in vacuum, any sort of storing even in a heated building, UK anyway, the pins go grey with age. Perhaps they do some sandblasting and then solder-pot dipping |
#11
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Do NTE series ICs exist
They generally bagged them up individually. It surely helped. I am sure this was not thir intention, to get their money (not) like 35 years later, but oh well.
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#12
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Do NTE series ICs exist
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