I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

Mikek

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs, but whether CFLs
will work with switch systems. Most X10 modules can switch CFLs, and dim some
* models.

* Not to be confused with the food.

On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs, but
whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10 modules can switch
CFLs, and dim some * models.

* Not to be confused with the food.

I may need to look into X10, but right now I need to look at the CFL I
have and see if it is dim-able.
I can't stand the kitchen light when I get up in the morning, already
changed it from a 6000K to a 4700K (4300K?) and it is slightly more
tolerable. I just need to shut it off long enough to get my first cup of
coffee and light adjust for a bit. Funny, I can fire up my computer and
that light has much less effect on me.
I did find this system uses piezo devices to produce power. Kinda neat,
But is more involved than I think I need to get.
http://www.lightningswitch.com/

Thanks, Mikek

On 11/24/2013 05:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs, but
whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10 modules can switch
CFLs, and dim some * models.

* Not to be confused with the food.

Get an appliance module if you want hard on/off

On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs, but
whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10 modules can switch
CFLs, and dim some * models.

* Not to be confused with the food.

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"
Btw, my bulb is 5000k 1550 to 1686 lumens? found three
ratings for the same bulb.
ECOT23 or sku384314. May look for new bulb, (again)

Mikek

"dave" wrote in message
m...
On 11/24/2013 05:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems.

Get an appliance module if you want hard on/off.

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

"amdx" wrote in message ...
On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10
modules can switch CFLs, and dim some models.

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"

I'll have to make this clear... Whether the module will turn a CFL on and off
has nothing to do with whether the CFL is dimmable.

On 11/24/2013 9:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"amdx" wrote in message ...
On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10
modules can switch CFLs, and dim some models.

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"

I'll have to make this clear... Whether the module will turn a CFL on
and off has nothing to do with whether the CFL is dimmable.

Ok, I don't have any interest in dimming. What I see is most of the
simple remote switches are for incandescent bulbs or resistive loads.


So, where does this leave me?
Also, I was posting two way switch, i just realized what I want is a
three way switch system.

Mikek

On 11/24/2013 8:13 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/24/2013 9:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"amdx" wrote in message ...
On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10
modules can switch CFLs, and dim some models.

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"

I'll have to make this clear... Whether the module will turn a CFL on
and off has nothing to do with whether the CFL is dimmable.

Ok, I don't have any interest in dimming. What I see is most of the
simple remote switches are for incandescent bulbs or resistive loads.


So, where does this leave me?
Also, I was posting two way switch, i just realized what I want is a
three way switch system.

Mikek


Any switch module with two wires is unlikely to work with CFLs.
They rely on current thru the load to run the module.
When I switched to CFL, I had to rip out the dimmer modules
and replace with appliance switch modules.

There were also issues with some loads. Had to remove the module
resistor that senses the load. It's the thing that lets you turn
the lamp off, then back on for manual switching. Mods available online.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx wrote:

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html

On 11/24/2013 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx wrote:

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html


I need to correct a couple errors I made. I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.
In all my searches, one thing that never seems to be explained clearly,
will the switch work in a three way circuit? I have also seen that some
work with fluorescent lights, but CFL's are not listed. Made me realize,
ya, there's a difference.

After reading your link, I'm still undecided.

Thanks, Mikek


* previously I said Two way.

On 11/24/2013 11:33 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/24/2013 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx w

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html


I need to correct a couple errors I made. I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.
In all my searches, one thing that never seems to be explained clearly,
will the switch work in a three way circuit? I have also seen that some
work with fluorescent lights, but CFL's are not listed. Made me realize,
ya, there's a difference.

After reading your link, I'm still undecided.

Thanks, Mikek


* previously I said Two way.
3-ways are always an issue because of the wiring required.

There's a thing for X10 that's called stick a switch.
Model is SS13A.
It's a switch plate that you just glue anywhere.
has three on/off switches and a dimmer switch.
You can stick as many as you want anywhere you want.
Works with the wireless transceiver module to access
three wired X10 modules in the house. I've never used it.
I just have HR-12A remotes scattered around the house.

There are similar keyfob transmitters that do the same thing
for x10.

And there are many different remote switches that don't use X10.
I have a sack of remote systems designed for ceiling fans.

If you're gonna buy a whole new set of stuff, X10 is pretty
outdated. Might be better of with a more modern technology.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:33:02 -0600, amdx wrote:

I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.

Z-wave 3 way switch
http://www.smarthome.com/59464/GE-45614-Z-Wave-3-Way-On-Off-Kit/p.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vguVa58PGI

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/24/2013 1:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:33:02 -0600, amdx wrote:

I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.

Z-wave 3 way switch
http://www.smarthome.com/59464/GE-45614-Z-Wave-3-Way-On-Off-Kit/p.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vguVa58PGI


Same warning, "The device controlled by this Z-Wave switch must not
exceed 600 watts (Incandescent); 15 Amps, 1800W (Resistive);
or ½ HP (Motor)."
I found lots of remote controls (tv type) but not a normal wall mount
flip switch.
I'm using a CFL, until I change it.
Mikek

On 11/24/2013 08:13 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/24/2013 9:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"amdx" wrote in message ...
On 11/24/2013 7:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems. Most X10
modules can switch CFLs, and dim some models.

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"

I'll have to make this clear... Whether the module will turn a CFL on
and off has nothing to do with whether the CFL is dimmable.

Ok, I don't have any interest in dimming. What I see is most of the
simple remote switches are for incandescent bulbs or resistive loads.



Use appliance module for reactive loads.

On 11/24/2013 11:47 AM, mike wrote:
On 11/24/2013 11:33 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/24/2013 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx w

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html


I need to correct a couple errors I made. I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.
In all my searches, one thing that never seems to be explained clearly,
will the switch work in a three way circuit? I have also seen that some
work with fluorescent lights, but CFL's are not listed. Made me realize,
ya, there's a difference.

After reading your link, I'm still undecided.

Thanks, Mikek


* previously I said Two way.
3-ways are always an issue because of the wiring required.

There's a thing for X10 that's called stick a switch.
Model is SS13A.
It's a switch plate that you just glue anywhere.
has three on/off switches and a dimmer switch.
You can stick as many as you want anywhere you want.
Works with the wireless transceiver module to access
three wired X10 modules in the house. I've never used it.
I just have HR-12A remotes scattered around the house.

There are similar keyfob transmitters that do the same thing
for x10.

And there are many different remote switches that don't use X10.
I have a sack of remote systems designed for ceiling fans.

If you're gonna buy a whole new set of stuff, X10 is pretty
outdated. Might be better of with a more modern technology.

They sell X-10 at Beast Buy don't they?

"amdx"

I checked my CFL, it says "Not Dimable"


** That is a lighting industry term that means " standard CFL".

All of which are dimmable, with the right dimmer.

A variac works well as do most trailing edge dimmers - some might need an
incandescent lamp in parallel.

Cheap triac ( phase control) dimmers do not dim and must never be used with
a CFL.

Even when set to 100%, there are large current pulses that will eventually
kill the CFL.



.... Phil

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:33:02 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 11/24/2013 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx wrote:

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html


I need to correct a couple errors I made. I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.

X10 has 3-way switches (and 4-way - same remote switch). I'm pretty
sure the Insteon will do that, too. I'm just starting with Insteon
(so far not it's not working as I expected, though).

In all my searches, one thing that never seems to be explained clearly,
will the switch work in a three way circuit? I have also seen that some
work with fluorescent lights, but CFL's are not listed. Made me realize,
ya, there's a difference.

As long as it doesn't dim, what's the difference?

After reading your link, I'm still undecided.

Thanks, Mikek


* previously I said Two way.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 14:39:22 -0800, dave
wrote:

On 11/24/2013 11:47 AM, mike wrote:
On 11/24/2013 11:33 AM, amdx wrote:
On 11/24/2013 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0600, amdx w

I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

How about this? The normal toggle style is available, too.

http://www.insteon.com/2477s-switchlinc-dual-band.html


I need to correct a couple errors I made. I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.
In all my searches, one thing that never seems to be explained clearly,
will the switch work in a three way circuit? I have also seen that some
work with fluorescent lights, but CFL's are not listed. Made me realize,
ya, there's a difference.

After reading your link, I'm still undecided.

Thanks, Mikek


* previously I said Two way.
3-ways are always an issue because of the wiring required.

There's a thing for X10 that's called stick a switch.
Model is SS13A.
It's a switch plate that you just glue anywhere.
has three on/off switches and a dimmer switch.
You can stick as many as you want anywhere you want.
Works with the wireless transceiver module to access
three wired X10 modules in the house. I've never used it.
I just have HR-12A remotes scattered around the house.

There are similar keyfob transmitters that do the same thing
for x10.

And there are many different remote switches that don't use X10.
I have a sack of remote systems designed for ceiling fans.

If you're gonna buy a whole new set of stuff, X10 is pretty
outdated. Might be better of with a more modern technology.

They sell X-10 at Beast Buy don't they?

Not here and it's not in their online catalog. Insteon is on their
site but no reason to buy from them. I looked for some X-10 stuff a
while back and could find no one who carried it anymore (other than
online). Seems "home automation" has gone away.

X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 15:58:29 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 11/24/2013 1:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:33:02 -0600, amdx wrote:

I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.

Z-wave 3 way switch
http://www.smarthome.com/59464/GE-45614-Z-Wave-3-Way-On-Off-Kit/p.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vguVa58PGI

Same warning, "The device controlled by this Z-Wave switch must not
exceed 600 watts (Incandescent); 15 Amps, 1800W (Resistive);
or ½ HP (Motor)."
I found lots of remote controls (tv type) but not a normal wall mount
flip switch.

Did you look at the above Smarthome URL? It's a wall mount switch.
All Z-wave saves you in this case is having to run an extra wire
between switches to make it 3-way.

I'm using a CFL, until I change it.
Mikek

It would be VERY helpful if you would supply a list of requirements
and constraints for your project. I didn't see any mention of power
limitations any of your previous postings. Note that if your load has
PF correction and the inrush current is under 15A, then you can
consider the load resistive.

However, if power, reactive loads, or position of the moon are
potential problems, I suggest isolating the device with a relay, also
known in electro-jargon as a contactor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactor
http://www.grainger.com/category/starters-and-contactors/electrical/ecatalog/N-8f4

There are also alternatives. You can achieve something similar to a 3
way switch using a latching contactor. A latching contactor has two
coils and the usual armature controlled contacts. The armature is
latched into either position with some mechanical derrangement, or
with magnets. Apply power to one coil, and it goes one way. Apply
power to the other coil, and it goes the other way.

Controlling a latching relay lighting system is done with momentary
push buttons, not conventional light switches. Each station will have
two push buttons (on and off). What's nice is setup is that you can
have more than 2 stations to control the lights. As a bonus, the
latching contactor does not suck power when energized, thus doing your
part to save electricity.

Here's typical data sheet for a 3 pole 30A magnetic latching
contactor:
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12768/229240/6890817/6890957/229355/Introduction.html

A friend (RIP) wired his entire house with such a setup. 4 position
wall plates, fitted with 8 momentary push buttons, and located in the
usual light switch positions. Some were wired, while others were
wireless. Most of the loads were run by latching contactors in the
basement. No problems with the county code cops. I may have photos
(somewhere) if you're interested.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/24/2013 3:31 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

I'd agree, BUT.
I buy the stuff dirt cheap at garage sales.
Works well enough, but it's really old technology.
Susceptible to noise.
Needs help bridging phases of the line.

If I were gonna buy it at retail prices, I think
I'd investigate some of the newer lines.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 15:31:09 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

X10 was originally a one way system and lacked a way of verifying that
the destination switch was successfully actuated. I had X10 (mostly
BSR) lighting control at my house for many years. One day, I noticed
that while I was running the drill press in the shop, the outside
lights failed to activate at their appointed times. A little testing
showed that the drill press produced enough EMI on the power lines to
jam the X10 signal. The X10 protocol tries to get around this problem
by sending the codes several times, but that's ineffective against
long duration interference.

Many current X10 models offer bi-directional 2-way control, where the
device transmits an acknowledgement. The older controllers and
devices lack this featu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)
Look for the buzzword "2-way" in the name.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
m...
On 11/24/2013 05:51 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You might want to look at X10 modules. X10 has two-way switches.

It's not so much whether a switch system will work with CFLs,
but whether CFLs will work with switch systems.

Get an appliance module if you want hard on/off.

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

They all are. You just need an X10 wireless receiver and two (or more)
X10 remote switches.

Isaa

amdx wrote:
I'm looking for a switch almost like the one in the URL below.

http://tinyurl.com/n5luoq3

This one has two problems,
It is made for incandescent bulbs only,
I need one that will work with CFL's.
I also need one that works just like an ordinary
wired two way switch. I don't see if this does that or not.

I would prefer to have this style flip switch,
but could put up with swmbo until she gets used to a
different style.

Mikek
One time at Home Depot, i saw an answer to a remote light switch.
Looking at the receiver box i see: Westek (brand name of American
Tack and Hardware) Wireless plugin receiver Model RFA-110.
I have 2 loads on it: one LED light and one Dell Monitor with the RGB
color face and polarizer stripped off for a diffused light source.

"isw" wrote in message ]...
In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

They all are. You just need an X10 wireless receiver and two (or more)
X10 remote switches.

Ahem. That is not the common usage of "two-way" or "three-way".

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 19:31:20 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 15:31:09 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

X10 was originally a one way system and lacked a way of verifying that
the destination switch was successfully actuated. I had X10 (mostly
BSR) lighting control at my house for many years. One day, I noticed
that while I was running the drill press in the shop, the outside
lights failed to activate at their appointed times. A little testing
showed that the drill press produced enough EMI on the power lines to
jam the X10 signal. The X10 protocol tries to get around this problem
by sending the codes several times, but that's ineffective against
long duration interference.

Many current X10 models offer bi-directional 2-way control, where the
device transmits an acknowledgement. The older controllers and
devices lack this featu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)
Look for the buzzword "2-way" in the name.

I've got a Wemo device in use now, pretty slick stuff. I can switch my
lights on and off from Jena Germany or China, with confirmation (if I
don't want to look at the webcam).


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 01:41:20 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

I've got a Wemo device in use now, pretty slick stuff. I can switch my
lights on and off from Jena Germany or China, with confirmation (if I
don't want to look at the webcam).


http://www.belkin.com/us/wemo
Kinda expen$ive. Uses wi-fi to communicate, not power lines. Supports
IFTTT.
https://ifttt.com/wtf
A major step up from X10. However, it might be a bit overkill for a
3-way light switch.

How to turn on a room light:

1960: Walk over to wall switch. Flip switch. Light turns on.

1975: Find the X10 wireless remote control. Try to remember which
button controls which light. Press button. Wrong light. Press "all
on" and never mind the electric bill.

2003: Say the magic buzzword that activates the voice controlled home
automation system.
You say: "Room light on".
Controller asks: "Which room"?
You say: "Can't you figure out which room I'm in"?
Controller says: "I do not understand the command".
You snarl: "Bedroom"
Controller asks: "Bright, reading, soft, or motion controlled"?
You say: "Bright" and the lights turn on.
You say (quietly): "Worthless piece of disgusting junk..."
Controller says: "I do not understand the command".
Sound of breaking glass as something hits the LCD display.

2013: Walk into dark room and try to find your tablet computer. Login
with biometric authentication and password. On the 4th try, the
tablet finally recognizes your hung over, unshaven, and unkempt
appearance. Wait while a dozen applications insist on updating
themselves immediately. Find the WeMo light switch app among the
dozen new games the kids have installed. Push the relevant light
switch button. Nothing happens. Try again. Still nothing. Pause
watching Netflix Super-HD movie to recover bandwidth. Try again.
Light comes on.

This is progress?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:02:49 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:



2013: Walk into dark room and try to find your tablet computer. Login
with biometric authentication and password. On the 4th try, the
tablet finally recognizes your hung over, unshaven, and unkempt
appearance. Wait while a dozen applications insist on updating
themselves immediately. Find the WeMo light switch app among the
dozen new games the kids have installed. Push the relevant light
switch button. Nothing happens. Try again. Still nothing. Pause
watching Netflix Super-HD movie to recover bandwidth. Try again.
Light comes on.

This is progress?

Pluck smartphone out of pocket, key in unlock code, swipe a page or
two over to the app, jab it a couple more times, done, go back to
waiting in queue for morning take-out coffee.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 03:20:42 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:02:49 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:



2013: Walk into dark room and try to find your tablet computer. Login
with biometric authentication and password. On the 4th try, the
tablet finally recognizes your hung over, unshaven, and unkempt
appearance. Wait while a dozen applications insist on updating
themselves immediately. Find the WeMo light switch app among the
dozen new games the kids have installed. Push the relevant light
switch button. Nothing happens. Try again. Still nothing. Pause
watching Netflix Super-HD movie to recover bandwidth. Try again.
Light comes on.

This is progress?

Pluck smartphone out of pocket, key in unlock code, swipe a page or
two over to the app, jab it a couple more times, done, go back to
waiting in queue for morning take-out coffee.

Immediately after, receive an urgent SMS message from wife asking
"The lights suddenly went out in the house. Should I be worried"?
Spill coffee trying to type in a reply.

Just wait until you have security cameras all over the house, the
respond to "gestures" where various hand waving and finger pointing
contortions represent actions and devices. Maybe combine that with a
holographic 3D representation of the house.

How many engineers does it really take to screw in a light bulb or in
this case, turn on a light switch? I don't know, but it never seems
to be easier or simpler. If I wanted to turn of my house lights from
Germany, I would phone or email one of the neighbors, who would then
walk over and turn off the lights.

You might not enjoy my smartphone (Droid-X2). Every time I try to do
something useful, it spontaneously reboots. I should probably wipe it
and start over, but I've become accustomed to the reboots and can
probably live with it for a while longer.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:52:15 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


You might not enjoy my smartphone (Droid-X2). Every time I try to do
something useful, it spontaneously reboots. I should probably wipe it
and start over, but I've become accustomed to the reboots and can
probably live with it for a while longer.

I would kill it dead.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 05:47:41 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:52:15 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
You might not enjoy my smartphone (Droid-X2). Every time I try to do
something useful, it spontaneously reboots. I should probably wipe it
and start over, but I've become accustomed to the reboots and can
probably live with it for a while longer.

I would kill it dead.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Your standards are much higher than mine. I don't have a single
gadget that does not have at least one irritating bug, glitch, or
human factors failure. I still use 30 year old HP calculators, drive
a 12 year old Subaru, and 25 year old HP/TEK/etc test equipment.

By the scale of electronic devices, the Droid-X2 is an antique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_X#Droid_X2
It is generally considered a loser by the trade press, which is why
I've resold 8 of them to various friends without incident. Only mine
and one other reboots spontaneously probably because both are just
crammed with apps, utils, and abrevs.

The average life of a cell phone is only about 18 months. A
smartphone, about 30 months. My Droid-X2 is near EOL. It was
introduced in May 2011 and currently sells used for about $40 on eBay.
It will probably be adequate for my needs for another year or two,
when it will be replaced by what would be considered todays latest and
greatest, but purchased used on eBay for 10% of original selling
price. I have no problem tolerating a few inconveniences in trade for
a mature product (most bugs are fixed) and very low cost.

Incidentally, I don't use the Droid-X2 as a cell phone. That honor
goes to a 6 year old LG VX-8300.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_VX8300
The VX-8300 was the last decent cell phone with an external antenna.
An external antenna provides better range than the typical internal
antenna. Carrying two devices is not a problem as I need the phone
far more often than the Droid-X2, which I use mostly as a camera.

However, one of my friends does follow your equipment retirement
policy. He purchases a new phone on contract every 1 to 2 years.
His line of work involves the use of firearms. When the new phone
arrives, he uses the old phone for target practice. I recently
watched him perforate a totally functional iPhone 4. I suspect that
looking forward to this bi-annual ceremony makes using the latest
smartphone more tolerable.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/24/2013 03:31 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

I've been to their warehouse in North Las Vegas. They are busy. Dr. Bill
Wattenburg invented the communications over powerline methods they use.

On 11/24/2013 07:08 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 15:58:29 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 11/24/2013 1:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:33:02 -0600, amdx wrote:

I want the new switch and
it's remote to work as a *THREE way switch, meaning, I can turn the
light on or off from the other switch no matter what position the first
is in. Also, I just recalled this this already is a three way circuit,
one switch is hidden behind the refrigerator.

Z-wave 3 way switch
http://www.smarthome.com/59464/GE-45614-Z-Wave-3-Way-On-Off-Kit/p.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vguVa58PGI

Same warning, "The device controlled by this Z-Wave switch must not
exceed 600 watts (Incandescent); 15 Amps, 1800W (Resistive);
or ½ HP (Motor)."
I found lots of remote controls (tv type) but not a normal wall mount
flip switch.

Did you look at the above Smarthome URL? It's a wall mount switch.
All Z-wave saves you in this case is having to run an extra wire
between switches to make it 3-way.

I'm using a CFL, until I change it.
Mikek

It would be VERY helpful if you would supply a list of requirements
and constraints for your project. I didn't see any mention of power
limitations any of your previous postings. Note that if your load has
PF correction and the inrush current is under 15A, then you can
consider the load resistive.



http://www.amazon.com/s/?tag=duckduc...iance%20module

"dave" wrote in message
m...
On 11/24/2013 03:31 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

I've been to their warehouse in North Las Vegas. They are busy. Dr Bill
Wattenburg invented the communications-over-powerline methods they use.

Interesting. The X10 Website seems to have disappeared, along with the bargain
prices. Their customer- and technical-service office used to be around the
corner, in Renton.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:27:32 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"isw" wrote in message ]...
In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

They all are. You just need an X10 wireless receiver and two (or more)
X10 remote switches.

Ahem. That is not the common usage of "two-way" or "three-way".

Sure it is. The appliance can be turned on or off from two or three
(or N) locations.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 19:24:17 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/24/2013 3:31 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

I'd agree, BUT.
I buy the stuff dirt cheap at garage sales.
Works well enough, but it's really old technology.
Susceptible to noise.
Needs help bridging phases of the line.

If I were gonna buy it at retail prices, I think
I'd investigate some of the newer lines.

IME, the "newer lines" are a lot more expensive and no more reliable
(if that good).

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:11:28 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
om...
On 11/24/2013 03:31 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

X10 has been around 35 years. It's cheap, and it works.

I've been to their warehouse in North Las Vegas. They are busy. Dr Bill
Wattenburg invented the communications-over-powerline methods they use.

Interesting. The X10 Website seems to have disappeared, along with the bargain
prices. Their customer- and technical-service office used to be around the
corner, in Renton.

X10.org is still around. It's apparently owned by SmartHome, now.

On 11/25/2013 09:45 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:27:32 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"isw" wrote in message ]...
In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

They all are. You just need an X10 wireless receiver and two (or more)
X10 remote switches.

Ahem. That is not the common usage of "two-way" or "three-way".

Sure it is. The appliance can be turned on or off from two or three
(or N) locations.

wrote in message ...
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:27:32 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
"isw" wrote in message ]...
In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Correct. But I don't think X10 makes a three-way appliance module.

They all are. You just need an X10 wireless receiver and two (or more)
X10 remote switches.

Ahem. That is not the common usage of "two-way" or "three-way".

Sure it is. The appliance can be turned on or off from two or three
(or N) locations.

It wasn't like that when I was growing up 60 years ago.

These terms have a specific meaning that refers to a hard-wired connection.