Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed laser),
big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked somewhat
similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around , unknown condition,
from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed lines for the 3 laser pins
matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch leads matched up, so tried it
out. Laser lit but logic of the end stops wrong so swapped the optical
unit across to the original (scrapper would not have mechanically fitted
in the Denon anyway). Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but
too much for detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data
track and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try, faulters
and stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but could
be a problem with the rack although powers up and down the slide without
incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try marking rack and
cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap) KSS 213 would show
the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and
see? or some other problem likely?

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed laser),
big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked somewhat
similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around , unknown condition,
from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed lines for the 3 laser pins
matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch leads matched up, so tried it out.
Laser lit but logic of the end stops wrong so swapped the optical unit
across to the original (scrapper would not have mechanically fitted in the
Denon anyway). Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but too much
for detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data track
and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try, faulters and
stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but could be
a problem with the rack although powers up and down the slide without
incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try marking rack and
cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap) KSS 213 would show
the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and see?
or some other problem likely?


I think this is a sled motor issue; I have never seen any limit switch other
than the inner (start) switch. As the tracking coil reaches it's physical
limit, a player will skip or "falter and stop" just like you describe, if
the sled does not advance.Check the voltage across the sled motor as this
process unfolds. At some point the voltage should increase to kick the sled
forward. Maybe there's a mechanical obstruction, maybe you still have wiring
issues.

Mark Z.

"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed laser),
big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked somewhat
similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around , unknown condition,
from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed lines for the 3 laser pins
matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch leads matched up, so tried it
out. Laser lit but logic of the end stops wrong so swapped the optical
unit across to the original (scrapper would not have mechanically fitted
in the Denon anyway). Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but
too much for detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data track
and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try, faulters and
stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but could
be a problem with the rack although powers up and down the slide without
incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try marking rack and
cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap) KSS 213 would show
the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and see?
or some other problem likely?


I think this is a sled motor issue; I have never seen any limit switch
other than the inner (start) switch. As the tracking coil reaches it's
physical limit, a player will skip or "falter and stop" just like you
describe, if the sled does not advance.Check the voltage across the sled
motor as this process unfolds. At some point the voltage should increase
to kick the sled forward. Maybe there's a mechanical obstruction, maybe
you still have wiring issues.

Mark Z.


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled motor
and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies from player
to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds. If you monitor
the voltage across the motor during each period, you will see it ramp up
gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls over one or two
commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the motor and the
mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there is, and the motor
will roll back a little. When I am looking for this specific problem, I
always mark some radial lines on the large top-side drive gear with a
Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the coarse tracking
operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you see the time varying
a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with either the motor or gear
train. If you see it taking a long time to roll on round about where you are
expecting it to give trouble, you can try helping it along by giving the
gear a gentle poke in the direction it should move. If that keeps it
playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled motor on the original deck is
poor. You could always try the old trick of squirting a drop of switch
cleaner in the holes at the back, and then 'blasting' it very briefly
several times in each direction with 12 volts. That will usually clean up
the comm and brush gear enough to get it running smoothly again, proving the
point that you need to replace the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can also
cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also, try
selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see if it
goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again a couple
of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on later tracks
where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye pattern on a scope can
tell you a lot about tracking and jitter behaviour. The same 'clean it and
blast it' technique can also be used on spindle motors to temporarily
recover them to prove the point

Arfa

On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa

I changed the position of the central limit switch action point by 1.2mm
and the same play for 2 mins only.
The Denon optical unit , marked Sanyo, does not use the usual
double-rack anti-backlash arrangement but a much cruder sort of sprung
plastic arm tensioner via the mount of the final double cog. I had to
remove the second rack on the KSS213 to fit in the available space. The
tension is now too high, the rack must be .5mm or so wider, and I'll
have to find a way of backing off the tension. The final cog to the rack
is 12 teeth and I can feel resistance 12 times a rev. Running the motor
continuously , even at low V,the inertia overcomes that lumpiness, but
that is not representative of the normal radial stepping drive, as you say.

On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed
laser), big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked
somewhat similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around ,
unknown condition, from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed
lines for the 3 laser pins matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch
leads matched up, so tried it out. Laser lit but logic of the end
stops wrong so swapped the optical unit across to the original
(scrapper would not have mechanically fitted in the Denon anyway).
Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but too much for
detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data
track and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try,
faulters and stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but
could be a problem with the rack although powers up and down the
slide without incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try
marking rack and cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap)
KSS 213 would show the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and
see? or some other problem likely?


I think this is a sled motor issue; I have never seen any limit switch
other than the inner (start) switch. As the tracking coil reaches it's
physical limit, a player will skip or "falter and stop" just like you
describe, if the sled does not advance.Check the voltage across the
sled motor as this process unfolds. At some point the voltage should
increase to kick the sled forward. Maybe there's a mechanical
obstruction, maybe you still have wiring issues.

Mark Z.


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa


Arfa,

Sorry to gate crash the thread, just wondering if you got my email
regarding the Yammy amp-tuner, the Samsung Telly and the Panny Freeview
DVD recorder?

Regards,

Stephen.

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa

I changed the position of the central limit switch action point by 1.2mm
and the same play for 2 mins only.
The Denon optical unit , marked Sanyo, does not use the usual double-rack
anti-backlash arrangement but a much cruder sort of sprung plastic arm
tensioner via the mount of the final double cog. I had to remove the
second rack on the KSS213 to fit in the available space. The tension is
now too high, the rack must be .5mm or so wider, and I'll have to find a
way of backing off the tension. The final cog to the rack is 12 teeth and
I can feel resistance 12 times a rev. Running the motor continuously ,
even at low V,the inertia overcomes that lumpiness, but that is not
representative of the normal radial stepping drive, as you say.


I guess I kind of missed the point of replacing a Sanyo laser with a used
Sony.

Bad idea - be surprised if you ever get it to work right, at least with any
acceptable combination of parts cost and time/effort.

'nuff said.

Mark Z.

I guess I kind of missed the point of replacing a Sanyo laser with a used
Sony.

Bad idea - be surprised if you ever get it to work right, at least with
any acceptable combination of parts cost and time/effort.

'nuff said.

Mark Z.

Me too. A Sanyo laser is not a Sony laser. Not a 213C or a B or a D or an E
or an F or a CL or, or ...

I'm not sure that I follow the purpose of all this anyway. It can't possibly
be a cost issue, as the common Sanyo lasers are as cheap as the Sonys - that
is a few quid. And if that is still too much money for the owner, then he
should be sent on his way, Denon under his arm, and boot on his arse ...

If you charge him realistically for the time you are spending trying to make
this bodge - and in my opinion, it *is* an unprofessional bodge, then that
must come to more than the cost of buying the laser and the ten minutes
needed to fit it. And if you are not charging him realistically, well, what
more to be said ... ?

Arfa

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed
laser), big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked
somewhat similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around ,
unknown condition, from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed
lines for the 3 laser pins matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch
leads matched up, so tried it out. Laser lit but logic of the end
stops wrong so swapped the optical unit across to the original
(scrapper would not have mechanically fitted in the Denon anyway).
Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but too much for
detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data
track and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try,
faulters and stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but
could be a problem with the rack although powers up and down the
slide without incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try
marking rack and cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap)
KSS 213 would show the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and
see? or some other problem likely?


I think this is a sled motor issue; I have never seen any limit switch
other than the inner (start) switch. As the tracking coil reaches it's
physical limit, a player will skip or "falter and stop" just like you
describe, if the sled does not advance.Check the voltage across the
sled motor as this process unfolds. At some point the voltage should
increase to kick the sled forward. Maybe there's a mechanical
obstruction, maybe you still have wiring issues.

Mark Z.


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa


Arfa,

Sorry to gate crash the thread, just wondering if you got my email
regarding the Yammy amp-tuner, the Samsung Telly and the Panny Freeview
DVD recorder?

Regards,

Stephen.

Nope. When did you send it ? To arfa{dot}daily{at}ntlworld{dot}com yes ?
That address definitely works ok. I have received at least five mails on it
today, and have just sent myself one from another address, and it was
delivered immediately.

Arfa

On 29/08/2013 02:42, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:

Regards,

Stephen.

Nope. When did you send it ? To arfa{dot}daily{at}ntlworld{dot}com yes
? That address definitely works ok. I have received at least five mails
on it today, and have just sent myself one from another address, and it
was delivered immediately.

Arfa

Talk about illogical, machine readable valid em address you deliberately
don/t spoof in usenet headers but spoofed em address in the body.

What a pillock, the racks are 2 different pitches , the KSS213C one
something like 21 teeth per 20mm and the Denon one is a bit coarser, I
assumed that all such racks were the same. Whether the final cog will
swap over,and tooth pitch mismatch betwwen cog and cograther than cog
and rack, will find out later

On 29/08/2013 01:34, Mark Zacharias wrote:
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa

I changed the position of the central limit switch action point by
1.2mm and the same play for 2 mins only.
The Denon optical unit , marked Sanyo, does not use the usual
double-rack anti-backlash arrangement but a much cruder sort of sprung
plastic arm tensioner via the mount of the final double cog. I had to
remove the second rack on the KSS213 to fit in the available space.
The tension is now too high, the rack must be .5mm or so wider, and
I'll have to find a way of backing off the tension. The final cog to
the rack is 12 teeth and I can feel resistance 12 times a rev. Running
the motor continuously , even at low V,the inertia overcomes that
lumpiness, but that is not representative of the normal radial
stepping drive, as you say.


I guess I kind of missed the point of replacing a Sanyo laser with a
used Sony.

Bad idea - be surprised if you ever get it to work right, at least with
any acceptable combination of parts cost and time/effort.

'nuff said.

Mark Z.

The Denon optical unit is labelled CD11FTA3N , unless you are aware of
its Sanyo number , they are expensive to replace, presumably specials
produced by Sanyo and consequential markup.

I melded together a 1.25mm pitch cog with a 0.95mm one with only about
..2mm ecentricity but much the same result.
I've now noticed why pre-selecting track 2 or 5 or whatever results in
no play. The sledge is propelled to the periphery as though track 10 was
selected, so something wrong in the interpretation of "0" track data ?
or something beyond any resolution by me unless anyone has any insight?

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:06:16 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

CD11FTA3N


The cheapest I found one for is $89.00 U.S. with free shipping. That's
cheaper than hours of labor trying to make incompatible parts work.
Chuck

On 29/08/2013 14:43, chuck wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:06:16 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

CD11FTA3N


The cheapest I found one for is $89.00 U.S. with free shipping. That's
cheaper than hours of labor trying to make incompatible parts work.
Chuck


The cheapest I found in the UK was , with all the usual extras about 90
pounds. Much more interesting playing around/hacking. No guarantee that
there is not some sort of random ps or other surge that knocked out the
original laser and could equally do the same with a 90 quid replacement

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2013 02:42, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:

Regards,

Stephen.

Nope. When did you send it ? To arfa{dot}daily{at}ntlworld{dot}com yes
? That address definitely works ok. I have received at least five mails
on it today, and have just sent myself one from another address, and it
was delivered immediately.

Arfa

Talk about illogical, machine readable valid em address you deliberately
don/t spoof in usenet headers but spoofed em address in the body.




You miss the point ...

Arfa

On 29/08/2013 02:42, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mark Zacharias" wrote in message
...
"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Neither me or owner will spend out on a new optical unit (failed
laser), big spondulics. But a near industry standard KSS 213C looked
somewhat similar , so I tried it out. This one laying around ,
unknown condition, from some scrapped something. The ribbon feed
lines for the 3 laser pins matched , the other 2 deck motor+switch
leads matched up, so tried it out. Laser lit but logic of the end
stops wrong so swapped the optical unit across to the original
(scrapper would not have mechanically fitted in the Denon anyway).
Required some bodging to fit, straightforward but too much for
detailing here, but sledge etc worked .
Adjusted power pot and cleaned lens and now consistently reads data
track and plays about first 2 minutes track1 of any CD I try,
faulters and stops, will not play any track 2 or higher.
I suspect the registration of the centre limit switch is out, but
could be a problem with the rack although powers up and down the
slide without incident with only 2 volt on the motor, but I will try
marking rack and cog of the 2minute stoppages. I assume a new (cheap)
KSS 213 would show the same stoppage.
So how to adjust the end stop , ? pieces of shim material added and
subtracted in the gap between sledge and leaf switch and suck it and
see? or some other problem likely?


I think this is a sled motor issue; I have never seen any limit switch
other than the inner (start) switch. As the tracking coil reaches it's
physical limit, a player will skip or "falter and stop" just like you
describe, if the sled does not advance.Check the voltage across the
sled motor as this process unfolds. At some point the voltage should
increase to kick the sled forward. Maybe there's a mechanical
obstruction, maybe you still have wiring issues.

Mark Z.


I would agree with everything that Mark says. The lens tracks across the
disc with a sort of 'wave' motion, the 'fine' part of this process being
handled by the lens tracking coils, and the 'coarse' part by the sled
motor and associated gearing. The time between motor 'roll-ons' varies
from player to player, but is typically between about 4 and 10 seconds.
If you monitor the voltage across the motor during each period, you will
see it ramp up gently until the point is reached where the motor rolls
over one or two commutator segments. If all is well with the servo, the
motor and the mechanics, there should be no overshoot, but often there
is, and the motor will roll back a little. When I am looking for this
specific problem, I always mark some radial lines on the large top-side
drive gear with a Sharpie pen. You can then watch the behaviour of the
coarse tracking operation, doing a rough count between roll-ons. If you
see the time varying a lot, there is usually a mechanical problem with
either the motor or gear train. If you see it taking a long time to roll
on round about where you are expecting it to give trouble, you can try
helping it along by giving the gear a gentle poke in the direction it
should move. If that keeps it playing, then there you go. Maybe the sled
motor on the original deck is poor. You could always try the old trick
of squirting a drop of switch cleaner in the holes at the back, and then
'blasting' it very briefly several times in each direction with 12
volts. That will usually clean up the comm and brush gear enough to get
it running smoothly again, proving the point that you need to replace
the motor.

You might also check the performance of the spindle motor, as this can
also cause tracking problems if it produces enough data jitter. Also,
try selecting a track well into the disc, before pressing play, and see
if it goes there ok and plays through the track, or gives trouble again
a couple of minutes in. 'Lumpy' spindle motors tend to behave better on
later tracks where the rotation speed is less. Looking at the eye
pattern on a scope can tell you a lot about tracking and jitter
behaviour. The same 'clean it and blast it' technique can also be used
on spindle motors to temporarily recover them to prove the point

Arfa


Arfa,

Sorry to gate crash the thread, just wondering if you got my email
regarding the Yammy amp-tuner, the Samsung Telly and the Panny
Freeview DVD recorder?

Regards,

Stephen.

Nope. When did you send it ? To arfa{dot}daily{at}ntlworld{dot}com yes
? That address definitely works ok. I have received at least five mails
on it today, and have just sent myself one from another address, and it
was delivered immediately.

Arfa

I've emailed 3 times to you address. I'm not getting any messages
bounced back.

well here it is reproduced: If you could email your reply to

sierra tango echo pappa hotel echo november tango echo november {at}
tesco.net

(take out the words before the {at} leaving the first letters only to
form the first half of the emaila address)

Hi Arfa (Sorry I don't know your real name... :-(

Its very brave of you to put your email address in the newsgroups. I did
that when I first started using newgroups. Within days I was getting
over 100 spam emails every day. I soon learned and put a munged email
address in of :-)

I've now got 3 items for repair.

I get given faulty kit for free all the time and most of the time it
turns out to be a PSU fault. I usually assume its dried out or gone
high ESR caps. So I replace PSU caps with Panasonic FM or FC series
caps. I find I can fix most PSU faults simply by replacing the caps 9
times out of 10.

The first is a Samsung 32inch LCD TV, samsung le32b450c4w.This tactic
has not worked on this TV. Symptoms is that the TV will not power up,
the on/off LED flashes 3 times every time I try to take it out of standby.

It has a PSU & inverter board, its a BN44-00260A ....

So I suspect it s a precision voltage reference IC or a switcher IC
seeing as the cap treatment did not work.

The second one is the Yamaha DAB/FM/AM amplifier tuner model RX-V100D as
illustrated
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-RX-...item3cd2f03345

This one will not power up at all. I suspect the fault to be with the
voltage standby circuit. as this needs to work before the rest of the
amplifier will start.

The 3rd item is a Freeview DVD recorder, a Panasonic DMR EZ25. It is
displaying the error code U81 on its display which basically means the
freeview tuner could not start due to a PSU fault. I had this fault
before and I fixed it with a load of caps. It started working again and
then failed again a year later. I suspect an IC or transistor now.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/blu-r...ed-solved.html
seems to give more info on the Panasonic DMR EZ25 fault. Its an IC 1508
I believe.....

Looking forward to your response.

Regards

Stephen

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2013 14:43, chuck wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:06:16 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

CD11FTA3N


The cheapest I found one for is $89.00 U.S. with free shipping. That's
cheaper than hours of labor trying to make incompatible parts work.
Chuck


The cheapest I found in the UK was , with all the usual extras about 90
pounds. Much more interesting playing around/hacking. No guarantee that
there is not some sort of random ps or other surge that knocked out the
original laser and could equally do the same with a 90 quid replacement


You could try just looking at various Sanyo pickups on eBay and probably
find it there under the SFP or whatever number.

Mark Z.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2013 02:42, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2013 11:00, Arfa Daily wrote:

Regards,

Stephen.

Nope. When did you send it ? To arfa{dot}daily{at}ntlworld{dot}com yes
? That address definitely works ok. I have received at least five mails
on it today, and have just sent myself one from another address, and it
was delivered immediately.

Arfa

Talk about illogical, machine readable valid em address you deliberately
don/t spoof in usenet headers but spoofed em address in the body.




You miss the point ...

Arfa


And the point was that by using that approach, he has now managed to get it
put into an address bar correctly, and his latest email has reached me
without issue ...

Arfa

On 30/08/2013 01:28, Mark Zacharias wrote:
the usual extras about 90 pounds. Much more interesting playing
around/hacking. No guarantee that there is not some sort of random ps or
other surge that knocked out the original laser and co

The number on the Denon Sanyo one is SF-P101N but as that is on the
plastic of the body rather than a label, there may be a lot of flavours.
The optical unit just carries the laser , the receive photodiode matrix
, and the focus+track coils. Could the track coil polarity be wrong?
2 minutes in could be where the sledge has to definitely have moved as
come to the limit of the coil shift ambit, worth a try . Now what
differentiates the orthogonal coils? A small voltage in each to see if
the lens moves vertically or radially I suppose. Nothing like
heuristics, its not as though the owner is paying for my farting about.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2013 02:42, Arfa Daily wrote:

Stephen


Stephen. Your last came through on the direct email ok, and I have sent a
couple of replies back on the address that you mailed me from. Hopefully,
they have found their way to you ?

Arfa

Same 2V polarity on lines 1 and 4 of the ribbon send the focus the same
way and same for lines 2 and 3 for the track throw for both optical
blocks, so nowhere left to go

The SM (listed RCD M33DAB) has the test mode details. May as well try it
as does not seem to require a test CD. although at no stage has it
registered one of the 20 listed error codes

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 30/08/2013 01:28, Mark Zacharias wrote:
the usual extras about 90 pounds. Much more interesting playing
around/hacking. No guarantee that there is not some sort of random ps or
other surge that knocked out the original laser and co

The number on the Denon Sanyo one is SF-P101N but as that is on the
plastic of the body rather than a label, there may be a lot of flavours.
The optical unit just carries the laser , the receive photodiode matrix ,
and the focus+track coils. Could the track coil polarity be wrong?

No

2 minutes in could be where the sledge has to definitely have moved as
come to the limit of the coil shift ambit, worth a try . Now what
differentiates the orthogonal coils? A small voltage in each to see if the
lens moves vertically or radially I suppose. Nothing like heuristics, its
not as though the owner is paying for my farting about.


Errr, I'm not getting this. The SF-P101N is a well-known Sanyo laser, and
available - even as a complete sub-deck - for just a few quid - literally
....

You are slightly correct in there being more than one flavour. There are in
fact two. One has a 15 pin connector, and the other, a 16 pin. This is
always detailed where they are offered for sale, so there should be no issue
getting the right one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Optical-La...item3383bb1e50

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANYO-CD-V...item3a5e6e9d65

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em416 ed6a41e

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em51a 83d29c3

Arfa

On 31/08/2013 02:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 30/08/2013 01:28, Mark Zacharias wrote:
the usual extras about 90 pounds. Much more interesting playing
around/hacking. No guarantee that there is not some sort of random ps or
other surge that knocked out the original laser and co

The number on the Denon Sanyo one is SF-P101N but as that is on the
plastic of the body rather than a label, there may be a lot of flavours.
The optical unit just carries the laser , the receive photodiode
matrix , and the focus+track coils. Could the track coil polarity be
wrong?

No

2 minutes in could be where the sledge has to definitely have moved as
come to the limit of the coil shift ambit, worth a try . Now what
differentiates the orthogonal coils? A small voltage in each to see if
the lens moves vertically or radially I suppose. Nothing like
heuristics, its not as though the owner is paying for my farting about.


Errr, I'm not getting this. The SF-P101N is a well-known Sanyo laser,
and available - even as a complete sub-deck - for just a few quid -
literally ...

You are slightly correct in there being more than one flavour. There are
in fact two. One has a 15 pin connector, and the other, a 16 pin. This
is always detailed where they are offered for sale, so there should be
no issue getting the right one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Optical-La...item3383bb1e50


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANYO-CD-V...item3a5e6e9d65


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em416 ed6a41e


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em51a 83d29c3


Arfa

In the meantime
It all seems mighty weird that you can progress flawlessly through the
test routines along with never any error statements but the unit does
not work.
Test routines pass byte info out on focus balance, focus gain,track
balance , track gain , focus offset , track offset,RFRP and a routine
that sums errors in a 2 second sample. Go into the auto adjust routine
after adjusting the power pot and the values change. I don't know what
100% error figures for 2 seconds would be ,but readings about 023,000
one time then adjust pot and then average about 035,000. So if 6 digits
is 100% then about 2 to 4 percent. What would a representative figure be
for dust,microscratches,scatter etc ?

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 31/08/2013 02:00, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 30/08/2013 01:28, Mark Zacharias wrote:
the usual extras about 90 pounds. Much more interesting playing
around/hacking. No guarantee that there is not some sort of random ps
or
other surge that knocked out the original laser and co

The number on the Denon Sanyo one is SF-P101N but as that is on the
plastic of the body rather than a label, there may be a lot of flavours.
The optical unit just carries the laser , the receive photodiode
matrix , and the focus+track coils. Could the track coil polarity be
wrong?

No

2 minutes in could be where the sledge has to definitely have moved as
come to the limit of the coil shift ambit, worth a try . Now what
differentiates the orthogonal coils? A small voltage in each to see if
the lens moves vertically or radially I suppose. Nothing like
heuristics, its not as though the owner is paying for my farting about.


Errr, I'm not getting this. The SF-P101N is a well-known Sanyo laser,
and available - even as a complete sub-deck - for just a few quid -
literally ...

You are slightly correct in there being more than one flavour. There are
in fact two. One has a 15 pin connector, and the other, a 16 pin. This
is always detailed where they are offered for sale, so there should be
no issue getting the right one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Optical-La...item3383bb1e50


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANYO-CD-V...item3a5e6e9d65


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em416 ed6a41e


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SF-P101N-C...em51a 83d29c3


Arfa

In the meantime
It all seems mighty weird that you can progress flawlessly through the
test routines along with never any error statements but the unit does not
work.
Test routines pass byte info out on focus balance, focus gain,track
balance , track gain , focus offset , track offset,RFRP and a routine that
sums errors in a 2 second sample. Go into the auto adjust routine after
adjusting the power pot and the values change. I don't know what 100%
error figures for 2 seconds would be ,but readings about 023,000 one time
then adjust pot and then average about 035,000. So if 6 digits is 100%
then about 2 to 4 percent. What would a representative figure be for
dust,microscratches,scatter etc ?


You continue to burn large quantities of time on this one. I'd be out of
business in a month if I made a practice of this sort of thing.

My view: Fix the damn thing and get on to the next piece of crap...

Mark Z.

Sanyo one in there and working all functions. So bulk standard cheapo
with no added Denon flavour it would seem.
BER error now about 100

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Sanyo one in there and working all functions. So bulk standard cheapo with
no added Denon flavour it would seem.
BER error now about 100


Yep. I've replaced quite a few, and never found them to be anything other
than 'standard'. Did you get a whole sub-deck in the end, or just a laser ?

Arfa

On 06/09/2013 01:35, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Sanyo one in there and working all functions. So bulk standard cheapo
with no added Denon flavour it would seem.
BER error now about 100


Yep. I've replaced quite a few, and never found them to be anything
other than 'standard'. Did you get a whole sub-deck in the end, or just
a laser ?

Arfa

whole deck.
Quite happy with BER of 100 but I assume this error reading would be a
good monitor , not immediate though, for adjusting the power pot for
optimal.

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Sanyo one in there and working all functions. So bulk standard cheapo with
no added Denon flavour it would seem.
BER error now about 100


Finally!

Mark Z.